Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

Cyrus

graememk wrote: »

Short answer, No there isn't.

Long answer

It would be quite difficult to make a reeled charger as you would need some way to get the cables to rotate in the middle of the coil, think of like a brush of a motor
And for 5 wires, with 3 of them being rated for 32amps

Then there is the issue of does it need to be fully unwound as not to pose a risk of excessive heating/fire due to high currents in a coil.

It's not impossible but the drawbacks outweigh the benefits.

A charge point to look into is the Anderson, the cable on that is completely hidden, it's not retractable but it's hidden in the frame of the charge point.

Yep the Andersen is the neatest and one of the priciest

slave1

I’ll be changing my non tethered to tethered soon and also thinking about cable management, have an idea in my head but will wait till the time comes before sharing to see if it’s workable

ustari

Thanks for the replies. Surprised that it isn't an option.

Also, would have thought companies would be selling add-on faceplates or doors for their chargers to hide the cables behind. Don't particularly want messy looking looped cables around my charger at the front of the house, even if it is just me mainly looking at it.

I bought an enclosed hose reel for that reason and that is around the back of the house.

Would be happy with just a cover/faceplate even just so that the cables aren't visible from head on. The Zappi looks relatively neat to be fair, could be an option.

KCross

Even if you could coil it up, the cable could be uncoiled for 50% of its time anyway. Depends on your EV and mileage of course.

If the deal is that you have to manually coil it inside a case each time you will quickly get sick of that in the cold, wet winter evenings and mornings.

If it was some kind of spring loaded thing like a petrol pump then fine, but I don’t think that exists?

AndyBoBandy

Yeah, I just got the Tesla one with 7.5m cable, that coils around the unit, and it's grand. Its about as much work as I'd want to be doing when storing it when not being used. As long as you keep to the original 'folds' it looks neat and tidy in my opinion.

TJJP

@emmetlego

If you're still looking, the QUBEV (from EvoOneStop or Amazon) is worth a look.

I got a QUBEV - EV CHARGING UNIT | TYPE 2 SOCKET | 32 AMP/7.2 KW | IP65 | (17th Edition)
for around £229 delivered from Amazon. It's a basic dumb charger, but everything you need, if like me, you have a car app.

Not tethered, but it's a small and tidy unit and I don't mind not having the cable laying around.

There's an 18th edition too (dc leakage protection), that's about £299, but I'm not sure if regs require that here yet.

TJJP

Someone else was asking about Dual charging a few weeks back. The ABL Wallbox eMH3 might be of interest. https://www.ablmobility.de/en/products/emh3.php

See a few pictures of one below. I've a feeling the Andersen is just a posh version of the ABL.

gary29428

Hi Folks

New EV driver and just getting the home charger sorted. Got a quote from ESB, not sure of charger model, price was 700 for a tethered charger, 100 for the ALM. They contacted a installer on my behalf who came back with 485 installed. So 1285, does that sound about right, have applied for the grant and got a letter saying I was approved.

Thanks in advance.

goob20s

gary29428 wrote: »

Hi Folks

New EV driver and just getting the home charger sorted. Got a quote from ESB, not sure of charger model, price was 700 for a tethered charger, 100 for the ALM. They contacted a installer on my behalf who came back with 485 installed. So 1285, does that sound about right, have applied for the grant and got a letter saying I was approved.

Thanks in advance.

Electric Ireland do an eo mini tethered for 899 installed with alm.

Sheep Shagger

goob20s wrote: »

Electric Ireland do an eo mini tethered for 899 installed with alm.

Is that before the grant?

Our non tethered EO 'smart/pro model' with ALM, was €1099 (before the grant), a bit pissed all the options are not on the EI website. Wasn't aware of a slightly cheaper option.

Cyrus

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Is that before the grant?

yes

Sheep Shagger

Cyrus wrote: »

yes

Interesting, never got offered that.

Was either €1099 untethered or €1199 tethered.

goob20s

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Interesting, never got offered that.

Was either €1099 untethered or €1199 tethered.

They originally charged 1099 then told me they overcharged and was only 899. 1099 must be for the pro version. I didn't need app control as the car controls charge time so I was happy with that.

Cyrus

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Interesting, never got offered that.

Was either €1099 untethered or €1199 tethered.

im not sure if they were trialling it or if its a fixed part of the offering

i didnt want tethered so went with the 1099 option anyway

the_amazing_raisin

goob20s wrote: »

Electric Ireland do an eo mini tethered for 899 installed with alm.

I paid around €700 for the installation plus €600 for the charger, but my fuse box is in the middle of the house so the cable had to be run through the walls before being brought outside so was more complex than some jobs.


I hear the ESB is allowing people to take a cable off the meter now, they weren't allowing that when I got mine installed. That should make the job somewhat simpler (and cheaper)



My mum is going through the process of getting a charger installed for her upcoming ID.3. She's going with the deal offered by VW which is installed by Bord Gais. It's pricey but it comes with a warranty and saves her the hassle of dealing with getting quotes from different electricians, so worth it in her case.

rx8

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I hear the ESB is allowing people to take a cable off the meter now, they weren't allowing that when I got mine installed. That should make the job somewhat simpler (and cheaper)

This would be great for me, can you elaborate further where this information came from please. Was it from an installer or the ESB directly.

Cyrus

rx8 wrote: »

This would be great for me, can you elaborate further where this information came from please. Was it from an installer or the ESB directly.

yes a few of my neighbours would be very interested to hear about this.

the_amazing_raisin

rx8 wrote: »

This would be great for me, can you elaborate further where this information came from please. Was it from an installer or the ESB directly.

Well basically when I got my night meter 'installed' (it was already a night meter, they just wrote some instructions on it with a sharpie) the ESB technician said they would be allowing installations from the meter box, same as what was done with the free home chargers the ESB was giving out a few years ago. This was mid 2018 as far as I remember



Also, I've noticed that two of my neighbours who got EVs after me seem to have the chargers connected directly into the meter box. I've no idea who installed them though so can't really give more info than that


Not exactly the best sources I'll admit, I'm just telling others what I've seen and heard



As far as I know, the legal situation is that the ESB 'own' everything inside the box and are the only ones who can modify it's contents in any way. So if the ESB are installing the charger, then likely they will be able to take a cable from the meter box. It's worth querying with the installer to see what exactly they can do.


There's a few cowboy electricians out there who would probably take a cable out of the meter box anyway (I got a quote from one when I was getting it installed). Not sure I'd go with that approach, if you ever needed the ESB out to do some work they might refuse to touch the meter since it's been modified

Cyrus

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Well basically when I got my night meter 'installed' (it was already a night meter, they just wrote some instructions on it with a sharpie) the ESB technician said they would be allowing installations from the meter box, same as what was done with the free home chargers the ESB was giving out a few years ago. This was mid 2018 as far as I remember



Also, I've noticed that two of my neighbours who got EVs after me seem to have the chargers connected directly into the meter box. I've no idea who installed them though so can't really give more info than that


Not exactly the best sources I'll admit, I'm just telling others what I've seen and heard



As far as I know, the legal situation is that the ESB 'own' everything inside the box and are the only ones who can modify it's contents in any way. So if the ESB are installing the charger, then likely they will be able to take a cable from the meter box. It's worth querying with the installer to see what exactly they can do.


There's a few cowboy electricians out there who would probably take a cable out of the meter box anyway (I got a quote from one when I was getting it installed). Not sure I'd go with that approach, if you ever needed the ESB out to do some work they might refuse to touch the meter since it's been modified

i only got mine done a few weeks back and it was KN on behalf of electric ireland and it was a hard no.

the_amazing_raisin

Cyrus wrote: »

i only got mine done a few weeks back and it was KN on behalf of electric ireland and it was a hard no.

Darn, looks like I was mistaken then.

KCross

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Well basically when I got my night meter 'installed' (it was already a night meter, they just wrote some instructions on it with a sharpie) the ESB technician said they would be allowing installations from the meter box, same as what was done with the free home chargers the ESB was giving out a few years ago. This was mid 2018 as far as I remember

I think the info given might be that the modern meters have the ability to have a supply connected to them without breaking the ESB seal on the meter. Older meters didn’t have that ability AFAIK.

However you’d still be expected not to have any consumer board inside the meter box. You just create a small one next to the meter box and hang the charge point off that.

As far as I know, the legal situation is that the ESB 'own' everything inside the box and are the only ones who can modify it's contents in any way.

Correct and still the case AFAIK, apart from what I said above.

Sheep Shagger

goob20s wrote: »

They originally charged 1099 then told me they overcharged and was only 899. 1099 must be for the pro version. I didn't need app control as the car controls charge time so I was happy with that.

Yeah we have the pro version but would have been nice to have been offered non pro or pro, pretty sure our car app has the same functionality if that's all the €200 differehce is for, it doesn't help that the EO app is horrendous either.

I found the whole EI 'experience' pretty ****e to be be honest for a big company, from chasing them to not having any details of the offer online.

the_amazing_raisin

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

I found the whole EI 'experience' pretty ****e to be be honest for a big company, from chasing them to not having any details of the offer online.

Is that not pretty standard for Electric Ireland?

I remember the nonsense I went through with Bird Gais and the ESB trying to get a night meter. They kept telling me I had to get the meter replaced and it might cost a few hundred (but couldn't tell me for sure of they'd charge me). I kept telling them that I already had a night meter, there wasn't any hardware changes needed.

Even when the ESB technician called over he told me that the only change was to tell the meter reader to take the day and night readings, and he wrote on the meter with a marker how to do that.

Given that level of chaos, I'm genuinely amazed that electricity still manages to reach my house

seligehgit

Alkers wrote: »

I think most cars are type 2 so as far as I'm aware to future proof you should get an untethered charge point (which will be a type 2 socket) and then a type 2 to type 1 cable for your leaf. This will be the same cable you can use for the public slow charge points.
If you get a new ev later you will use a type 2 cable with the same charge point

Does a tethered type 2 cable future proof you too?

the_amazing_raisin

seligehgit wrote: »

Does a tethered type 2 cable future proof you too?

If your car has a type 2 socket then yes, would definitely recommend getting a 7kW (32 amp) charger though as a 3.3kW might be a bit slow with bigger battery EVs


I got a Type 2 7kW untethered for my Leaf 24kWh because that takes a Type 1 plug and I wanted to be future proofed.


However, I'll probably swap that for a Type 2 tethered when I get a new car as the convenience can't really be beaten when the rain is pouring.


I think the main thing is to get the cabling done for the charger, and go for the highest current you can manage. After that's done it's a 10 minute job to swap out an old charger for a new one if you decide to change

catharsis

Is there any sort of centralised resource showing the various EVSEs available?

I'm looking for 3-Phase compatible, Load Balancing compatible, Solar compatible and ideally 'smart' in terms of being capable to produce a bill suitable for raising expense claims.

I believe the Zappi fulfills the first 3.
I believe the Tesla fulfills the first 2
I believe BMW (!) have a product which may fulfill 1,3 & 4?

Similarly I think Volkswagen are offering some interesting new options.

What I am not aware of is what the various other options out there may be?

Anyone have a central resource or even just a list?

catharsis

[duplicate post snipped]

KCross

catharsis wrote: »

Is there any sort of centralised resource showing the various EVSEs available?

I'm looking for 3-Phase compatible, Load Balancing compatible, Solar compatible and ideally 'smart' in terms of being capable to produce a bill suitable for raising expense claims.

What exactly do you want/expect the EVSE to do for you for that requirement?

I would have thought that business mileage would simply be a case of logging your business mileage and having an agreed €/km figure agreed with your employer.


It's trivial to get a running total of energy provided from the charge point but I presume you want something more clever than that? Is it complicating things though as you would still have to manually separate personal and business mileage?.... just log the mileage and submit it in the same way you would an ICE car?

KCross

catharsis wrote: »

Is there any sort of centralised resource showing the various EVSEs available?

I'm looking for 3-Phase compatible, Load Balancing compatible, Solar compatible and ideally 'smart' in terms of being capable to produce a bill suitable for raising expense claims.

I believe the Zappi fulfills the first 3.
I believe the Tesla fulfills the first 2
I believe BMW (!) have a product which may fulfill 1,3 & 4?

Just to clarify this point also.... is it load balancing between two charge points you want or is it load limiting to prevent the house fuse tripping that you want?

The last time I looked, Tesla wall connector could only do load balancing/sharing between two Tesla charge points. It didnt do whole house load sensing/limiting. You set a max current that can be shared and thats all it could do and it required you to buy 2 Tesla wall connectors for that. Not compatible across models of charge point.

Happy to be corrected on that if Tesla have added that capability.

the_amazing_raisin

catharsis wrote: »

Is there any sort of centralised resource showing the various EVSEs available?

I'm looking for 3-Phase compatible, Load Balancing compatible, Solar compatible and ideally 'smart' in terms of being capable to produce a bill suitable for raising expense claims.

I believe the Zappi fulfills the first 3.
I believe the Tesla fulfills the first 2
I believe BMW (!) have a product which may fulfill 1,3 & 4?

Similarly I think Volkswagen are offering some interesting new options.

What I am not aware of is what the various other options out there may be?

Anyone have a central resource or even just a list?

I'm looking at the Zappi as well and it should definitely be able to satisfy the first 3, I think you'll need to hub as well to view information about the charger.


Be aware the 3 phase zappi is a bit more expensive. Out of curiosity, is this for a home charger? Do you already have 3 phase because it's pretty expensive to get it installed if not? I looked up the charges before and it was looking to be around €5000 before any trenching charges or VAT, you can find more info here


https://www.esbnetworks.ie/docs/default-source/publications/approved-statement-of-charges-2019-2020.pdf?sfvrsn=224533f0_63


About requirement 4, it's kind of dependant on what you need it for and what is considered acceptable.


If it's your employer, then the €/km payment system might be simpler for both of you. Just make sure you get the same as what ICE drivers are getting, otherwise you'll be cheated out of some well earned expenses


If your employer is insisting on kWh used, then I think the Zappi can display historical data via the app, but I'm not sure if it's to the granularity you'd require. You could look at getting a CT meter installed on the charger supply line and just provide readings to your employer who will reimburse you at an agreed rate per kWh


A simpler method may be to agree with your employer to pay a portion of your electricity bill each month, then you'd have a paper bill you can provide as proof of expenses.


An even simpler method could be to use public charging for business travel. The eCars app can provide a monthly invoice which should be suitable to business expenses.


If it were me, I'd prioritise being reimbursed for public charging. For example, if I travelled from Dublin to Cork in say a Kia E-Niro, I'd probably spend €2 on the home charge the night before, and recharge in Cork or on the way home.


Say I charged 40kWh at a DC charger, this would cost around €10, and I can guarantee it's business mileage since the car was 100% when leaving Dublin.


So I'd say it's easier and more valuable to reimburse public charging than home charging. But, that's just my opinion and your circumstances could make the effort worthwhile