Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

Gumbo

newbie_diy wrote: »

Im buying a new house that is "wired for an electric charger". I am. Meeting the builder to go through the specs
How should the wiring be done to be correctly wired for a charger to allow charging at a decent rate at home. There is no electric shower. The heating is an air to water sysytme and mechanical ventilation. Apart from that pretty standard appliances in the house..

Felexicon wrote: »

3 x 6mm and a Cat 6 from distribution board to charger location

Would be ideal but I’d say builder only has the power cable in based on my
Experience.

newbie_diy wrote: »

Great thanks..is there any specific requirements in the board?

Stupid question for my own knowledge but what is the cat 6 for?

Check the spec of the power cable. Take a photo and post here. Then check the spec of the fuse in the fuse board. Again take a photo. It should be a 32a fuse at least for a 6mm cable.

Felexicon

newbie_diy wrote: »

Great thanks..is there any specific requirements in the board?

Stupid question for my own knowledge but what is the cat 6 for?

Cat 6 is a data cable. As you have an air to water heat pump you will need a charger with load balancing capabilities to stop potential overload of the main fuse.
Many chargers use a CT coil to monitor house load. This is generally connected via a data cable.

In the board you want a 32A RCBO

slave1

Absolutely run a CAT, I didn’t when I put in my charger and now have to get an additional unit to communicate grid/PV data to my Zappi2 car charger.
While you’re at it I’d install at least two CAT cables, my rule of thumb is wherever you need a socket or network cable install double socket and run two cables.

Cona

Looking at install options of EO mini through electric ireland. Does the EO mini have load sensing or do you need to go for EO mini pro for that? Does EI install the EO mini pro?

Ionised

Cona wrote:

Looking at install options of EO mini through electric ireland. Does the EO mini have load sensing or do you need to go for EO mini pro for that? Does EI install the EO mini pro?

I had Electric Ireland install the EO Mini with a load sensing module. Tethered unit.
€899 all in.
Working flawlessly with my Mini SE.
If memory serves the EO Mini Pro was also an option but at a significant cost.

Conba

Ionised wrote: »

I had Electric Ireland install the EO Mini with a load sensing module. Tethered unit.

Considering my options for a new EV so trying to wrap my ahead around what I actually need (in a charger) versus what's just 'nice to have'. Sounds like a load sensing module isn't standard? Is it advisable? Necessary?

graememk

Conba wrote: »

Considering my options for a new EV so trying to wrap my ahead around what I actually need (in a charger) versus what's just 'nice to have'. Sounds like a load sensing module isn't standard? Is it advisable? Necessary?

only need load sensing (priority switch) if you have an electric shower to prevent the car from pulling 7kw and the shower pulling (up to 10?kw) that would blow your main fuse!

So the load sensing can detect the extra load on the house and either throttling the charge or stopping completely.

Kramer

graememk wrote: »

only need load sensing (priority switch) if you have an electric shower........

load sensing can detect the extra load on the house and either throttling the charge or stopping completely.

A "dumb" priority switch can't throttle, it can only disconnect your charge point when it detects too big a load elsewhere in the house.

Smart charge points with load sensing can usually "throttle" the charge by telling the car to pull less, until the other large load, a shower, heat pump etc., has stopped.

Without a heat pump, electric shower or solar install, most don't need a smart charge point. Ubiquitously, EVs have onboard timers &/or apps to control charging times, preheat etc., so things such as wifi, display screens etc. on charge points are unnecessary.

Some like those features though.

Risteard81

Load management should be used rather than shutting off the EVSE with contactors. An EV should maintain a minimum charge level to prevent seriously damaging the battery.

Kramer

Risteard81 wrote: »

Load management should be used rather than shutting off the EVSE with contactors.

100% agree. Madness using a dumb priority switch, abruptly shutting of the supply to the EVSE/EV.

Felexicon

Risteard81 wrote: »

Load management should be used rather than shutting off the EVSE with contactors. An EV should maintain a minimum charge level to prevent seriously damaging the battery.

What damage would be caused to the battery in this scenario?

the_amazing_raisin

Felexicon wrote: »

What damage would be caused to the battery in this scenario?

None, there are safeguards in place to prevent this. The EV charging protocols won't allow the charger to activate before a certain level (1.4kW?). If the load sensor can't free up enough power for this then the car just won't charge

Gumbo

cruisey1987 wrote: »

None, there are safeguards in place to prevent this. The EV charging protocols won't allow the charger to activate before a certain level (1.4kW?). If the load sensor can't free up enough power for this then the car just won't charge

^^^^^
And it’s this same reason what a zappi sending excess power to charge an EV is useless with small PV arrays.

alfa_aficionado

Ionised wrote: »

I had Electric Ireland install the EO Mini with a load sensing module. Tethered unit.
€899 all in.
Working flawlessly with my Mini SE.
If memory serves the EO Mini Pro was also an option but at a significant cost.

Was that €899 after the grant was taken off?

Redlim

alfa_aficionado wrote: »

Was that €899 after the grant was taken off?

I got this also, the final cost was only €299, i.e. €899 - €600 grant.

alfa_aficionado

Redlim wrote: »

I got this also, the final cost was only €299, i.e. €899 - €600 grant.

That's good - I might give them a ring then. Was that recently?
(I actually have a unit I purchased outright but can't get an electrician for love or money so might go with this offer and sell the unit on)

Redlim

alfa_aficionado wrote: »

That's good - I might give them a ring then. Was that recently?
(I actually have a unit I purchased outright but can't get an electrician for love or money so might go with this offer and sell the unit on)

Installed back in September, only took a few weeks from order to installation. Not sure if current restrictions are affecting that in any way now though.

I ordered through Electric Ireland and they then gave me me KN Group contact to arrange the install date.

the corpo

Redlim wrote: »

Installed back in September, only took a few weeks from order to installation. Not sure if current restrictions are affecting that in any way now though.

I ordered through Electric Ireland and they then gave me me KN Group contact to arrange the install date.

Are you an existing Electric Ireland customer? Cheapest on their site is €1099, so €499 after grant.

Ionised

the corpo wrote:

Are you an existing Electric Ireland customer? Cheapest on their site is €1099, so €499 after grant.

I'm not an Electric Ireland customer and it was 899 for the EO mini with load sensing.
FYI I just got the 600 back from SEAI. It took 9 weeks.

Cyrus

the corpo wrote: »

Are you an existing Electric Ireland customer? Cheapest on their site is €1099, so €499 after grant.

They don’t seem to advertise the tethered option but it’s available to anyone at 899

TitianGerm

Cyrus wrote: »

They don’t seem to advertise the tethered option but it’s available to anyone at 899

It's from £800 pounds for the EO Mini in the UK including install.

When I had mine installed the price of the tethered was €630 excluding Vat. Does the Electric Ireland one not include the ALM for an electric shower (I'd imagine most people would need one of these)?

Redlim

TitianGerm wrote: »

It's from £800 pounds for the EO Mini in the UK including install.

When I had mine installed the price of the tethered was €630 excluding Vat. Does the Electric Ireland one not include the ALM for an electric shower (I'd imagine most people would need one of these)?

Mine was installed with the ALM unit included also. So to summarise what I have installed from Electric Ireland:
- EO Mini - not the smart one so no app control etc.
- Tethered
- ALM unit attached to fuse board (for electric shower)

Final cost to me was €299 (€899 - €600 grant). This non smart tethered option is not advertised on the EI site. Think the smart tethered version, also not advertised, is around €1199. All these rates should be available to non EI customers also.

fionncdabest

alfa_aficionado wrote: »

That's good - I might give them a ring then. Was that recently?
(I actually have a unit I purchased outright but can't get an electrician for love or money so might go with this offer and sell the unit on)

Where are you based I might be able to help with an electrician?

slave1

So had a Zappi put in the other day, with the new regulations an isolator had to be put in right beside it.

Have to say, not a happy camper about that, isolate the charge point and all you need is a screwdriver and literally 3minutes and the Zappi is gone.
Don't see the isolator requirement in other countries?

Kramer

slave1 wrote: »

Have to say, not a happy camper about that,

I don't think there's any isolator or emergency stop on the new 22AC points ECars are putting in either. I checked (in darkness) a brand new one last night - nothing that I could see.

These can charge 2 cars at 44kWs, combined.

Yet, at home, on your own private property, a lowly single phase, 7kW socket requires an unsightly & problematic isolator. Problematic meaning any busybody can stop your car charging, for craic, or nick the whole lot.

There's an RCBO in your consumer unit, protecting the charge point & another in the charge point itself.

I think it's health & safety gone mad TBH.

eagerv

Kramer wrote: »

I don't think there's any isolator or emergency stop on the new 22AC points ECars are putting in either. I checked (in darkness) a brand new one last night - nothing that I could see.

These can charge 2 cars at 44kWs, combined.

Yet, at home, on your own private property, a lowly single phase, 7kW socket requires an unsightly & problematic isolator. Problematic meaning any busybody can stop your car charging, for craic, or nick the whole lot.

There's an RCBO in your consumer unit, protecting the charge point & another in the charge point itself.

I think it's health & safety gone mad TBH.

I wonder how long it will be before the scrotes realise that a charge point is a lot more valuable than a Toyota catalytic converter. And much easier to steal..

KCross

slave1 wrote: »

So had a Zappi put in the other day, with the new regulations an isolator had to be put in right beside it.

Have to say, not a happy camper about that, isolate the charge point and all you need is a screwdriver and literally 3minutes and the Zappi is gone.
Don't see the isolator requirement in other countries?

Kramer wrote: »

I think it's health & safety gone mad TBH.

Yea, a bull**** requirement and they look terrible.

Kramer

eagerv wrote: »

I wonder how long it will be before the scrotes realise that a charge point is a lot more valuable than a Toyota catalytic converter. And much easier to steal..

I reckon when the €600 grant goes & people are looking at €1300+ for basic installs, the black market for these will begin & cowboys will be supplying & installing knock off/stolen units for €3/400.

There won't be any certs etc. required, as no grant available.

The "always publically accessible" isolator will just make it a tad easier.

Felexicon

Kramer wrote: »

I reckon when the €600 grant goes & people are looking at €1300+ for basic installs, the black market for these will begin & cowboys will be supplying & installing knock off/stolen units for €3/400.

There won't be any certs etc. required, as no grant available.

The "always publically accessible" isolator will just make it a tad easier.

There are fairly simple steps to take to make your isolator obsolete

Kramer

Felexicon wrote: »

There are fairly simple steps to take to make your isolator obsolete

I'm not sure what you mean by than .

Do you mean "bypass" the isolator? I don't think anyone is permitted to interfere with anything installed, unless they are SAFE electric qualified & registered. They could be arrested & jailed .

Crims & scumbags tend not to care much for rules & regulations, in my experience at least :pac:.