Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

stimpson

I just paid my spark for the install. €170 in VAT. In fairness he was here doing other work at the same time. €150 after the grant for a Zappi installation. Not too shabby.

deadduck

picked up my leaf yesterday. only quote i've got so far for charger installation is €375 plus VAT by powerwise in Kill. That's for the labour, cabling and RCBO, and then they will supply the charger on top, or I can supply my own

if anyone has any recommendations of someone decent around Kildare/Newbridge/Naas i'd appreciate it

denismc

Is anyone else finding it difficult to get an electrician to do an install for the charger?

I have contacted 14 different electricians and only managed to get a single quote!
The one guy that did give me a quote has not responded to my calls or texts.
At first I thought it was that the electricians were just too busy, but now I am thinking there is some other reason they don't want to do the job.
Is it the paper trail that is scaring them away?
Any electrician out there want to shed some light?
At this rate I will end up selling the unit and just using the granny cable

unkel

You obviously haven't tried Nigel Daly? He's the biggest installer of EV charge points in the country. Not cheap, but it's a professional outfit and they do a good job. They install nationwide.

denismc

unkel wrote: »

You obviously haven't tried Nigel Daly? He's the biggest installer of EV charge points in the country. Not cheap, but it's a professional outfit and they do a good job. They install nationwide.

No I haven't tried Nigel yet but may have to.
I just don't understand why so many electricians don't even want to quote for what is a simple job.!

optimal

Zenith74 wrote: »

I'm not sure it's quite that black and white unkel. For example I am looking at a screenshot from my Effergy showing 20kw being drawn (two chargers, oven, kettle, fridge, toaster) which is ~83A. Not sure if I have a 63A or 80A fuse, but either way I would be over it.

That's not to say just because you can draw more than you're supposed to that you should, over loading wiring will not cause an immediate failure, it will just heat up slowly and maybe one time you charge and have a long shower on a sunny day and the heat is enough to start a fire. But just saying the ESB fuse does not necessarily blow the moment you go over 63.001A and wiring does not necessarily fail the minute you overload it either...

I’m struggling with this one too. My 12kw heat pump and fast charge Leaf were running together (unintentionally) for over an hour with no issue. In theory this should be about 19kw. I’m on a standard supply which I thought was 12kVA. I’ve a 63A “fuse” in customer unit and 63/80 A at meter. Any ideas?

KCross

optimal wrote: »

I’m struggling with this one too. My 12kw heat pump and fast charge Leaf were running together (unintentionally) for over an hour with no issue. In theory this should be about 19kw. I’m on a standard supply which I thought was 12kVA. I’ve a 63A “fuse” in customer unit and 63/80 A at meter. Any ideas?

Common misunderstanding. Your 12kW heat pump isnt pulling 12kW, thats its output not its input!

When the HP is running it's probably pulling around ~2.5kW

optimal

KCross wrote: »

Common misunderstanding. Your 12kW heat pump isnt pulling 12kW, thats its output not its input!

When the HP is running it's probably pulling around ~2.5kW

Thanks. That makes sense!! It’s a 4hp (4cv ?) compressor which I think equates to around 3kw then.
It’s great to have people here that know what they’re talking about!!

bonoman66

Had my Zappi Charger installed this morning by John from Nigel Daly's Team.

Here's my unsolicited feedback & a few pics in case it helps anyone...

Work Carried Out: Supply and Installation of Zappi EV Charger at my House.

Disclaimer: I am not in any way related to Nigel Daly's Company or Employee's (that I know of!). I'm not employed or being paid by Nigel Daly for my feedback. This is my own unsolicited feedback.



Feedback:


I'll be getting my first EV soon & I had been researching what I needed to have ready in advance of the car arriving. I chose a MyEnergi Zappi EV Charger (5 Meter Tethered Unit, Type 2) based on its ability to integrate with Solar Panels in the future if I decide to get them, for its reputation among those EV owners who have already purchased & been using it, and (because I have an Electric Shower installed in my home) for its ability to dynamically determine what current/power is being used within the house at any point so it then can adjust the power/current sent to the car when it is charging. (Using its CT Clamp). So it avoided the need to purchase an additional Priority Switch.

The next thing I had to determine was who to ask to do this work.

Again, I read a lot of online forums and one name repeatedly came up in terms of that company's Expertise, Skill, Knowledge & Ability to deliver a professional service and high quality finish - Nigel Daly.

I understood that there may have been cheaper alternatives - eg for me to source & acquire the charger unit myself & then separately find an electrician to install it.

I decided because I wanted the least amount of hassle / inconvenience with the highest level of service, professional finish, & someone that understood all the paperwork & who met all the criteria required for me to submit my EV Home Charger SEAI Grant Application, that I would choose Nigel Daly for this work.

I asked Nigel to source the charger & install it.

Right from my initial contact with Nigel's Team - Kelly, I could tell this was going to be a positive experience. Kelly was very responsive to all my questions & a good communicator using email & calling me on my phone. Nigel himself also provided me with information through email & over the phone. So it was great to see such a high level of customer focus & responsiveness at all levels within the company.

Kelly was very efficient in scheduling the work & providing me with time frames that suited me.

I subsequently got a follow up call from one of the Installation Electricians in Nigel's' Team (John) & he arranged a mutually agreeable installation day / time with me.

On the morning of the scheduled work, John was travelling a long distance to get to me & constantly kept me appraised of his location & updated me (through text messaging) with expected arrival times. I found this very helpful & not something that other tradespeople had bothered to do in the past for me.

John arrived on time & all ready & prepared for the job. He had obviously already been fully briefed by Kelly & Nigel on what I needed done as he knew exactly what the job was & there were no surprises for him & I did not have to explain everything.

John was an absolute professional. He provided such a high level & standard of work that it went above what I had expected (and I have high standards!). He went out of his way to explain what he was going to do at each stage of the work & ensured I was comfortable with it.

Observing John at work, it was apparent that he was highly skilled, had done this exact type of install many times & to me, he was so efficient I think he could have almost done the work with a blindfold on (not that it would be safe to do that of course :-)).

John was so incredibly neat & tidy at every stage (Drilling out from the internal fuse box in the house, attaching & routing protective cable trunking on the side of the house, installing & testing the EV charger for me).

I cannot recommend Nigel Daly & his team (thanks again Kelly & John) highly enough for their outstanding level of responsiveness, customer service, for getting things right first time, for their attention to detail & faultless install of my Home EV Charger.

Well done Nigel to you & your team. You obviously surround yourself with the right type of people - great personalities, superb customer focus / responsiveness, combined with expertise knowledge & professionalism.

You & your company deserve any & all success based on what you did for me this morning.

In my eyes - great value for my money & a totally happy customer.

rolion

bonoman66 wrote: »

In my eyes - great value for my money & a totally happy customer.

Great ad...

Personal,i am not a fan of Zappi due to that if you will have solar PV at some point in time, you need more than 5KW installed power to make sure you get benefits of the internal smart electronics (thats the main selling point of the unit).

Can we see the interior as well,please.

Thanks.

unkel

Nice write up, but you forgot the most important part: how much was the total charge for the install?

John (Nigel Daly) did my install too and he did a great job. As you say, all very professional, tidy, and quick. Mine was installed in March 2017 under the old free install scheme (for the first 2000 new EVs in Ireland)

bonoman66

rolion wrote: »

Great ad...

Personal,i am not a fan of Zappi due to that if you will have solar PV at some point in time, you need more than 5KW installed power to make sure you get benefits of the internal smart electronics (thats the main selling point of the unit).

Can we see the interior as well,please.

Thanks.

Thanks - I'm just hoping there'll be a Zappi App soon for it (think its meant to be forthcoming with the hub unit).

Sure - here a few interior pics.

The last one I took was taken before John (the Electrician) had put the Fuse Box panel filler back in so there is actually no gap like in the pic etc.


Hope this helps.

bonoman66

unkel wrote: »

Nice write up, but you forgot the most important part: how much was the total charge for the install?

John (Nigel Daly) did my install too and he did a great job. As you say, all very professional, tidy, and quick. Mine was under the old free install scheme (for the first 2000 new EVs in Ireland)

Total charge was €1112.30

I'll get the €600 Grant Back

Net Cost to me will be €512.30

Yes - I know I paid more than others but to me it was worth it in every way & I have no regrets. I have tried to do things & get jobs done as cheaply as possible (lowest cost / lowest tradesperson bidder) in the past & that has not always gone well.

No issues at all from start to finish & I don't mind paying what I did for the high level of service, attention to detail, responsiveness, ease of paperwork processing, knowledge that the person doing the work was expert in it specifically etc.. It was definitely well worth it to me.

ELM327

I think this is the reputation that Nigel Daly has to be honest, great work, top quality, but top prices too.

KCross

rolion wrote: »

Great ad...

Personal,i am not a fan of Zappi due to that if you will have solar PV at some point in time, you need more than 5KW installed power to make sure you get benefits of the internal smart electronics (thats the main selling point of the unit).

Can we see the interior as well,please.

Thanks.

Thats incorrect.
And the Zappi has more than Solar PV as its selling point.

All explained to you already!
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108675996&postcount=185

unkel

Nice though that thanks to the tax payer, you got the total install done (including all materials) for less than the cheapest price you could have possibly bought the charger for

Nedved85

unkel wrote: »

Nice though that thanks to the tax payer, you got the total install done (including all materials) for less than the cheapest price you could have possibly bought the charger for

Probably only a small % of his own taxes to be fair

rolion

KCross wrote: »

Thats incorrect.
And the Zappi has more than Solar PV as its selling point.

All explained to you already!
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108675996&postcount=185

@K

My working healthy principle is if i want to charge the car,i will give it full charge and not few hundreds Kw squezed out of Zappy along the day...

I respect your opinion but let's be technical...
Do you have Zappy and PVs, can you show some reports ,graphs !?
I have PVs and diverter for a while. My immersion diverter works same as the car charger.
If you want to see how they work under different conditions,day and time,month and sun vs cloud,you are welcome for a chat and a coffee anytime.

I can attach few screenshots of the PV generation and the amount of KW diverted to immersion when no one using any appliance in the house.
Below,thats a graph showing how the car will charge...



Below is my charger giving full 16A / 3,3KW to the car.
I like the car to be ready in 2 hours and not when Sun is shinning...
But,i stand to be corrected.

KCross

rolion wrote: »

@K

My working healthy principle is if i want to charge the car,i will give it full charge and not few hundreds Kw squezed out of Zappy along the day...

I respect your opinion but let's be technical...
Do you have Zappy and PVs, can you show some reports ,graphs !?
I have PVs and diverter for a while. My immersion diverter works same as the car charger.
If you want to see how they work under different conditions,day and time,month and sun vs cloud,you are welcome for a chat and a coffee anytime.

I can attach few screenshots of the PV generation and the amount of KW diverted to immersion when no one using any appliance in the house.
Below,thats a graph showing how the car will charge...


Below is my charger giving full 16A / 3,3KW to the car.
I like the car to be ready in 2 hours and not when Sun is shinning...
But,i stand to be corrected.

I'm not arguing how useful the Solar PV piece is. If the car isnt at home and plugged in while the sun is shining the Zappi is useless in that context. Likewise in the winter when the amount of energy your panels are producing is probably not even meeting your background load, so there is nothing to spare for the car so again useless in that context.

I was just correcting your statement that you "needed 5kW SolarPV to justify the Zappi as that was its main selling point".

What I'm saying is that the Zappi does more than SolarPV integration and you dont need 5kW of SolarPV if the Solar integration is important to you. Obviously the more SolarPV you have the more excess you will have available so the car will charge faster.

Personally, I think load balancing and load limiting are more important features and reasons to buy Zappi than the Solar integration. Thats my main point.

unkel

rolion wrote: »

I have PVs and diverter for a while. My immersion diverter works same as the car charger.

It is far more beneficial to charge your EV with excess PV production than to use a diverter. The former is worth 8c/kWh (night rate), the latter only about 2c/kWh (cost of heating with gas minus the cost of the diverter)

I've told you this (and did the sums) several times on the renewable energies forum, but you seem not very interested in the financials of renewables. Must be a nice place to be

Bob man

Is the zappi home charger any good

rolion

bonoman66 wrote: »

Total charge was €1112.30

I'll get the €600 Grant Back

Net Cost to me will be €512.30

Yes - I know I paid more than others but to me it was worth it in every way & I have no regrets. I have tried to do things & get jobs done as cheaply as possible (lowest cost / lowest tradesperson bidder) in the past & that has not always gone well.

No issues at all from start to finish & I don't mind paying what I did for the high level of service, attention to detail, responsiveness, ease of paperwork processing, knowledge that the person doing the work was expert in it specifically etc.. It was definitely well worth it to me.

Thanks for pictures.
As long as you are happy,all fine i guess ...but i try to match the long A4 feedback to a standard cabling job.
Tought is more than what i guessed i get for a €600 grant installation job.
Enjoy your EV !
Below a photo of my install for €100 and waiting for grant refund.



That reminds me of the PV installer company that i cannot name it a is on SEAI approved installer list.
He asked me to pay €1,700 to fit panels up on the roof,with all my parts waiting at the side. He charged for the "know-how"... two guys one full day and "health and safety" insurance type talking bulls.
I did it in the end with my local roofer that never touched a PV panel in his life before,took 4 hours and a 6 pack of Guinness for €300. And i learned how to do it ...

rolion

@ Kcross

Im not planing to change this topic in to Mythbuster scenario..or worst,get involved with you in polemics.
I learned a lot from you and from others here,thanks for that.

I've explained my logic,i attached screenshots, i stand to be corrected.
For a 3.3Kw EV car charegr you need a good PV installation array to take advantage of the named charger or to benefit of excess of energy from panels.
I dont think the on-board built car charger can support those variations,as above in my photo,from various voltage and charging cycles.
Regardign the load balancing,i dont have the need,cant see it useful to me,sorry for not taking in discussion.

I am very curious what the recommended specifications are from manufacturer .
Also,actually,anyone here having PV solar and the charger in use,and can show us some screenshots !? That will avoid any hot constructive unbiased arguments.
I repeat,i dont have the unit in use,cant say how it behaves in real life.

@unkel
Took you a while to reply here...on renewables topics you were faster.
I understand your advice but my EV car stays at home only Saturday to take advantage of the so called excess PV,as you call it. And,i hopo that Saturdays my wife works otherwise between cleaning,ironing,washing and cooking there is not too much juice left to squeze for the EV. And with the second EV on the way,cant think of using the PV.
Thats why the diverter is still connected,on a timer and pre-warm the bottom of the cylinder.
But,as you already know,December is the start of the very bad season of harvesting until March.. only yesterday i got the lowest of 700W all day all time.

KAGY

bonoman66 wrote: »

Total charge was €1112.30

I'll get the €600 Grant Back

Net Cost to me will be €512.30

Yes - I know I paid more than others but to me it was worth it in every way & I have no regrets. .

I got my Zappi installed at 600-600=0 ðŸ˜႒
Admittedly I got a great discount from Phil at auto electrics in the Zappi, and it was a no fuss install (short run, space on board etc, local electrician I.e minimal travel)
TBH, I was expecting it to be more, but it's working out for him as he'll be back next year to install PV!

ELM327

rolion wrote: »

Thanks for pictures.
As long as you are happy,all fine i guess ...but i try to match the long A4 feedback to a standard cabling job.
Tought is more than what i guessed i get for a €600 grant installation job.
Enjoy your EV !
Below a photo of my install for €100 and waiting for grant refund.



That reminds me of the PV installer company that i cannot name it a is on SEAI approved installer list.
He asked me to pay €1,700 to fit panels up on the roof,with all my parts waiting at the side. He charged for the "know-how"... two guys one full day and "health and safety" insurance type talking bulls.
I did it in the end with my local roofer that never touched a PV panel in his life before,took 4 hours and a 6 pack of Guinness for €300. And i learned how to do it ...

No offence, but that is quite literally the worst most untidy wiring job I have ever seen.
Did you give him the six pack before he started work?? :D

spakman

I don't qualify for the SEAI charger grant as it's a company car. Been shopping around for quotes but they all seems to be around €1k to supply and install a 32A charger.
Anyone able to recommend a competent electrician in Dublin area (west dub preferably) who will install a charger if I purchase it myself?

KCross

rolion wrote: »

@ Kcross

Im not planing to change this topic in to Mythbuster scenario..or worst,get involved with you in polemics.
I learned a lot from you and from others here,thanks for that.

I've explained my logic,i attached screenshots, i stand to be corrected.
For a 3.3Kw EV car charegr you need a good PV installation array to take advantage of the named charger or to benefit of excess of energy from panels.
I dont think the on-board built car charger can support those variations,as above in my photo,from various voltage and charging cycles.

The minimum, generally, an EV will take is 6A so if you have 1.4kW+ of excess at any stage of the day the Zappi can divert that to the car (if its at home, of course).

Maybe you are under the impression you need 3.3kW for the car to start a charge session and hence the need for 5kW Solar?

As you have pointed out, during the winter there will be little or no excess so the Zappi wont be diverting anything (nor will your water diverter) as the house will use everything that is generated.

The thing is the Zappi gives you flexibility and features that other charge points dont. It can do it and it is not that much more expensive than other charge points so why not give yourself that flexibility/option along with the other features it has as well.

If you dont value those features then fair enough. Its like extras on a car.... some people will pay for a fully loaded car.... others couldnt care less and would rather the cheapest version possible.... you appear to be the latter.

rolion wrote: »

Regardign the load balancing,i dont have the need,cant see it useful to me,sorry for not taking in discussion.

Load balancing and load limiting are required when you have two EV's.


So, if you have no Solar excess and/or the car is never at home during the day and you will never have two EV's in the house then fair enough, the Zappi has no value and then stick with the cheaper models.

rolion

ELM327 wrote: »

No offence, but that is quite literally the worst most untidy wiring job I have ever seen.
Did you give him the six pack before he started work?? :D

Yeah,looks nice,i like lots of cables !
I smell the sarcasm in your post ,but is not a finished job screenshot.
And ,it wasnt for you...

KCross wrote: »

The minimum, generally, an EV will take is 6A so if you have 1.4kW+ of excess at any stage of the day the Zappi can divert that to the car (if its at home, of course).

Maybe you are under the impression you need 3.3kW for the car to start a charge session and hence the need for 5kW Solar?

As you have pointed out, during the winter there will be little or no excess so the Zappi wont be diverting anything (nor will your water diverter) as the house will use everything that is generated.

The thing is the Zappi gives you flexibility and features that other charge points dont. It can do it and it is not that much more expensive than other charge points so why not give yourself that flexibility/option along with the other features it has as well.

If you dont value those features then fair enough. Its like extras on a car.... some people will pay for a fully loaded car.... others couldnt care less and would rather the cheapest version possible.... you appear to be the latter.



Load balancing and load limiting are required when you have two EV's.


So, if you have no Solar excess and/or the car is never at home during the day and you will never have two EV's in the house then fair enough, the Zappi has no value and then stick with the cheaper models.

Thanks,appreciate your time.
My charger is dearer than the quoted charger named above.
Has lots of options that i need time to figure out if to use it or not.
The PV definitevely not interested as i dont have enough juice left out of the 5Kw installed power.
Balancing,if i have two EVs,it can be done by two chargers.
Load limiting , checked.
Wireless connection and mobile app and realtime notifications,checked.

The feature of the PV that is quoted is i'm wondering how the internal car charger cope with variations from the charger,based on the excess PV generation numerous on/off,down and up? An immersion is resistive so it will take those cycles easily but a car charger !?? Dunno... maybe someone who has the EV,charger and the PVs will answer at some point !??

I stop here and no more arguments from my side for a type or another.
I dont work in the industry and i am not under comission...
Either one,enjoy the benefits.

KCross

rolion wrote: »

Balancing,if i have two EVs,it can be done by two chargers.
Load limiting , checked.

Two chargers wont necessarily do load balancing. A dumb charger, like most Rolec chargers, will simply provide max power or nothing. They are not capable of load balancing between two chargers. The Zappi and the Tesla charge points will.

Load limiting is an extension of that. Again, most charge points dont have that.

Not sure if you charge point will do load balancing and load limiting or not. What make/model did you buy?

rolion wrote: »

The feature of the PV that is quoted is i'm wondering how the internal car charger cope with variations from the charger,based on the excess PV generation numerous on/off,down and up?

The car can handle it as long as its above 6A. If it goes below that the charge session will stop and then restart when the sun comes out again.

You can also tell the Zappi that if it goes below 6A to pull from the grid to make up the balance to ensure the charge session continues. Its all configurable. Its not a feature I'm interested in either as my car wont be at home by day. Its the other stuff I'm intertested in.

DrPhilG

Thread hijack...

Been asking on EV Owners Facebook page, so I'll ask here too.

Considering an upgrade, Rolec charger is approaching 4 years old and with the i3 purchase I qualify for the grant.

I want something that balances the load, to negate the need for a priority switch. And also be future proof for integration with solar.

Any recommendations, aside from the Zappi?