How much knowledge should a newly qualified accountant have?

v638sg7k1a92bx

Anyone know what the general consensus is here. As a newly qualified chartered accountant, should you be able to produce a trial balance that actually makes sense?

Subacio

I'd expect this from someone sitting Leaving Cert accounting.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Subacio wrote: »

I'd expect this from someone sitting Leaving Cert accounting.

Maybe in days gone by but not anymore.

Jimbob1977

A decent knowledge of auditing techniques... tests of control... substantive testing etc

A broad grasp of accounting standards and the underlying principles of accountancy.... the accruals concept, going concern, prudence, consistency.

How to read a P&L and Balance Sheet.

How to post a correcting entry.

How to reconcile a bank account

How to determine if the evidence is solid or if the client is spoofing.

Everything else can be taught on the job.

Eireog1

Yes especially if they are fully qualified which means having 3 years practical experience! I have found that people who do there training in industry or large practices dont seem to have the overall general experience needed and normally have only been exposed to a limited knowledge in certain fields. Training in a small practice exposes you to a much better over all knowledge.

Immy

It depends on what field you trained in.

Jimbob1977

Eireog1 wrote: »

Yes especially if they are fully qualified which means having 3 years practical experience! I have found that people who do there training in industry or large practices dont seem to have the overall general experience needed and normally have only been exposed to a limited knowledge in certain fields. Training in a small practice exposes you to a much better over all knowledge.

Agreed. A small practice audit employee would be ahead of a large practice audit employee when it comes to taxes like VAT, PAYE and PRSI. They would also be better at company filings.

There's a lot of snobbery in the profession. At the end of the day, it's about common sense and business acumen

TitianGerm

Marc Itchy Scale wrote: »

Anyone know what the general consensus is here. As a newly qualified chartered accountant, should you be able to produce a trial balance that actually makes sense?

Fully qualified? Why wouldn't you be able to produce a TB at that level?

bertie 56

At least knowing the difference between minority and majority !

L.Jenkins

Here's my experience having completed an in class 1 year course created by the CPA. On a side note, I have completed 2 evening Payroll Courses and passed Formation 1 exams.

So what have I done and what have I been exposed to in the space of 6 months work experience?

• Payroll and Invoicing.
• Bank Reconciliations.
• Posting Journal Entries and Corrections in Sage and Xero.
• Revenue and CRO Accounts Filing.
• Company Set Up via CRO.
• Basic Bookkeeping.
• Trial Balance.

I would imagine that someone who is fully qualified shouldn't need to have their hand held at any stage in their day to day functions.

TitianGerm

L.Jenkins wrote: »

Here's my experience having completed an in class 1 year course created by the CPA. On a side note, I have completed 2 evening Payroll Courses and passed Formation 1 exams.

So what have I done and what have I been exposed to in the space of 6 months work experience?

• Payroll and Invoicing.
• Bank Reconciliations.
• Posting Journal Entries and Corrections in Sage and Xero.
• Revenue and CRO Accounts Filing.
• Company Set Up via CRO.
• Basic Bookkeeping.
• Trial Balance.

I would imagine that someone who is fully qualified shouldn't need to have their hand held at any stage in their day to day functions.

I've 8 ACCA exams done but being working in practice for four years.

I've a list of 50+ clients that I manage.

That includes, Vat, Payroll, IT, CT, TBs, CRO filing, and accounts for companies and sole traders. Obviously all my work is reviewed by a manager.

L.Jenkins

TitianGerm wrote: »

...That includes, Vat, Payroll, IT, CT, TBs, CRO filing, and accounts for companies and sole traders. Obviously all my work is reviewed by a manager.

You're work is reviewed still and you're a mid to senior level Accountant. Do they really have that little trust in you?

TitianGerm

L.Jenkins wrote: »

You're work is reviewed still and you're a mid to senior level Accountant. Do they really have that little trust in you?

No, it's just the process in the office. All accounts files are reviewed by your immediate manager to be signed off.

You have a finalized file, you sit down with your manager and discuss any items of concern, necessary journals that have been posted and any items you feel that the client would need to be made aware of.

I would have thought that was standard practice in most offices?

Johnny_Fontane

From a hiring perspective (recruitment director for finance staff since 2001), I'm not sure it matters that much. That sounds mad, but thats the way the market sees it.

Big 4's are hired for their potential and the fact that they have worked within large company environments. Academic backgrounds, internal ratings and communication skills are what matter and finally their audit client experience (whether FS or Industry). Going into a financial accounting role out of contract is a well worn step. Steep learning curve to preparing monthly management/financial accounts, but they generally have the smarts to handle it, within a short period of time.

Smaller practice candidates, will have a lot more experience preparing year end accounts, but wont probably have the exposure to larger corporate clients.

Those who trained in industry (there are some clients like Kerry/BOI etc where chartereds do a 3 year contract) will have the best exposure to this and if they haven't cracked trial balances after 3-4 years, they probably got moved on.

Bottom line is that its not automatic that a newly qualified chartered should be able to produce a trial balance if they came directly from audit. They should however within a 3-6 month period be very capable of producing this.

Meeeee79

L.Jenkins wrote: »

You're work is reviewed still and you're a mid to senior level Accountant. Do they really have that little trust in you?

And theres that snobbery that has been referred to already in the forum.

A newly qualified accountant who has trained solely in practice but is now taking on a job in industry should know the basics of what a trial balance is and how it arrived at but producing monthly TBs an d management accounts is very different to producing an audited set of accounts.

Alot of peoples experience in practice is that they get a TB from the client which has been managed by the client throughout the year. An accountant in practice then has to turn that TB into a year end set of financial statements, it all depends on where you trained and what your first job as a newly qualified accountant is in my opinion.

Meeeee79

TitianGerm wrote: »

No, it's just the process in the office. All accounts files are reviewed by your immediate manager to be signed off.

You have a finalized file, you sit down with your manager and discuss any items of concern, necessary journals that have been posted and any items you feel that the client would need to be made aware of.

I would have thought that was standard practice in most offices?

That is fairly standard in any practice I have worked in

Jim2007

Immy wrote: »

It depends on what field you trained in.

It most certainly does not! It is a basic as it gets.

Jim2007

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

Bottom line is that its not automatic that a newly qualified chartered should be able to produce a trial balance if they came directly from audit. They should however within a 3-6 month period be very capable of producing this.

A trial balance is as basic as it gets. If you don't know how it is constructed then you most certainly can not audit it.

v638sg7k1a92bx

bertie 56 wrote: »

At least knowing the difference between minority and majority !

Good thing I'm not an accountant.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

From a hiring perspective (recruitment director for finance staff since 2001), I'm not sure it matters that much. That sounds mad, but thats the way the market sees it.

Big 4's are hired for their potential and the fact that they have worked within large company environments. Academic backgrounds, internal ratings and communication skills are what matter and finally their audit client experience (whether FS or Industry). Going into a financial accounting role out of contract is a well worn step. Steep learning curve to preparing monthly management/financial accounts, but they generally have the smarts to handle it, within a short period of time.

Smaller practice candidates, will have a lot more experience preparing year end accounts, but wont probably have the exposure to larger corporate clients.

Those who trained in industry (there are some clients like Kerry/BOI etc where chartereds do a 3 year contract) will have the best exposure to this and if they haven't cracked trial balances after 3-4 years, they probably got moved on.

Bottom line is that its not automatic that a newly qualified chartered should be able to produce a trial balance if they came directly from audit. They should however within a 3-6 month period be very capable of producing this.

But is a trial balance not the litmus test of being an accountant? It seems that there is a general dumbing down of new entrants to the profession. We've had newly qualified accountants come through here and they don't seem to understand some of the information they are preparing and providing to management.

Colemania

As stated already numerous times on the thread, it really is down to where you trained and hence qualified. Be it Big 4, industry or small-medium practice.

I'm 5 years in practice now (started off doing bookkeeping which was a great place to start in my opinion) and I hope to be qualified come June if I can finally get the ACCA exam monkey off my back :pac:

I've only started doing audits since early 2016 but yes I can understand and construct a TB because of my experience. If I was in industry and wasn't dealing with items such as Management Accounts, would I understand a TB? Maybe not, depends on the person and the work.

To be honest, as long as you are progressing in your line of work and you intend to stay in and around that line of work, I wouldn't be worrying about what a newly qualified accountant should or should not know. It will all come with experience.

A friend of mine qualified a few years back and his role didn't change one bit. Working in industry and yeah......management weren't too bothered that he was now qualified!

TBH, any qualified accountant should be able to read and prepare a trial balance. It is probably the most fundamental test of being and accountant regardless of whether you train in industry or in practice, the debits and credits are the same.