Trouble on Tory Island...

end of the road

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

They're getting a safe,licensed,insured and competently crewed boat. May not be the one they want but that's their problem. As for the brown envelope remark....

and as it's their problem, they are protesting against the boat. fair play to them.

wexandproud

aileach wrote: »

The posts on this thread are laughable!
A few guys/girls having a laugh and slapping each other’s backs at the expense of the Tory Islanders.
You latch onto a news story - don’t bother researching it to see if it’s true - a news story which says Tory Islanders are unhappy because the proposed new Ferry is 42 years old.
So you go on to have a 25+ page ‘discussion’ about this topic and when someone with a little bit more information pops up you suddenly say - oh no now it’s not just old it’s unsafe etc etc etc.

If you had bothered to find out why the Tory Islanders were opposed to this boat in the first place you would have saved yourselves a lot of time and effort!

It’s not rocket science.

All the Tory Islanders wanted was a safe secure upgraded service to what was currently being provided.

For whatever as yet unknown reasons the Department of Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht decided to award the new contract to a new operator using an older and, unproven on this treacherous sea route, ferry which was already cast aside in the 1980’s and in the 1990’s. Why she was still in use at all is baffling to those who do know a little bit about boats.

There is a huge debate raging about this boat and rightly so - how did her 2 most recent owners know over 2 years ago that she was going to ‘win’ the contract for Tory in 2018.?

To whom were the brown envelopes passed?? Maybe you could spend some of your time researching these revelations instead of Belittling the people of Tory Island.

So stop making up little stories to satisfy your own minds and take time to find out facts! Don’t latch onto fake news reports.

The Tory Islanders do not care WHO runs the new service, they just want a safe service.

Firstly there is nobody on here having a laugh at the islanders expense , there are however a couple of posters who feel no service should be provided , its not an opinion i would agree with but they like you and I are entitled too an opinion

secondly . nobody '' latched on a news story'' , a poster who supports the islanders when they say the boat is unsuitable because of its age started a thread . several posters including myself asked numerous times what made the vessel unsuitable and who was qualified to say this , and time and time again there was no answers
You say that people with a ''little bit of experience'' question why the boat is still in use , well people who are experts in vessel construction are the only ones who can say that . Again if you if you had any experience of the marine survey office you would know that it is not possible to operate either a passenger service or indeed a commercial fishing boat without a survey , think of your nct and then make it ten times more rigorous .
that has been one of the main contentious points , people ''with a little bit of experience '' deeming the vessel unfit .While any body with even a reasonable bit of experience will know how extensive the survey will be on the boat before it's given a certificate to carry passengers

I would be certain that nobody on here wants to see a ferry that is unsafe being used to ferry the people of tory but what I have an issue with is people claiming the vessel is not suitable when they are not qualified to do so , and their reasons why its not suitable keep changing .
You say people should find out the facts , well they have been asked for time and time again but have not been provided , so with all respect maybe you can tell us .

PRidley

aileach wrote: »

For whatever as yet unknown reasons the Department of Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht decided to award the new contract to a new operator using an older and, unproven on this treacherous sea route, ferry which was already cast aside in the 1980’s and in the 1990’s. Why she was still in use at all is baffling to those who do know a little bit about boats.

Who cast the vessel aside in the 1980’s and 1990’s?
The reason she is still in use is probably because she passed the relevant annual inspections by the Marine Transport Office. Is there any evidence that she did not?

aileach wrote: »

There is a huge debate raging about this boat and rightly so - how did her 2 most recent owners know over 2 years ago that she was going to ‘win’ the contract for Tory in 2018.?

What makes you think that the current owners knew over two years ago that she would win the contract for Tory in 2018?

aileach wrote: »

To whom were the brown envelopes passed??

Do you have evidence that there were “brown envelopes”, as you call them, involved?

ozmo

wexandproud wrote: »

400 odd posts and the thread is still going around in circles , for once and for all could you
1 . provide a list of reasons why the boat is unsuitable
2. qualifications of the people who deemed her unsuitable
3. where and when these people inspected the boat out of the water

I heard two interviews on the Radio while driving.... and the upshot was basically they don't like the sound of it because it sounds old.

no requirements were mentioned despite repeated asking - just vague it might not be suitable for sea without any mentions of them having had the boat checked out.

The only concrete argument I heard in the interview put forward was that there is inadequate outside seating in case they get sea sick (old boat had seating outdoors).

Maybe they have a valid case - but the two interviews I heard came across as just them wanting a shiny new boat - not a hand me down - and they would leave the Island if they didn't get it.

aileach

ozmo wrote: »

I heard two interviews on the Radio while driving.... and the upshot was basically they don't like the sound of it because it sounds old.

no requirements were mentioned despite repeated asking - just vague it might not be suitable for sea without any mentions of them having had the boat checked out.

The only concrete argument I heard in the interview put forward was that there is inadequate outside seating in case they get sea sick (old boat had seating outdoors).

Maybe they have a valid case - but the two interviews I heard came across as just them wanting a shiny new boat - not a hand me down - and they would leave the Island if they didn't get it.

Here we go again!!! They want a shiny new boat!! Cop on people! They are under no illusions - there will never be a shiny new boat. They want a SAFE boat!

They are not all friends/relations of the current contract owners. Many of them can’t stand the current contract owners.

You ask questions on here - there seem to be very few Tory people following this thread anyway - but when they do come on and attempt to give their perspective you simply ignore them and go back to your preconceived notions!

The 9 míle sea journey from Tory Island to the mainland crosses a very treacherous stretch of the Atlantic Ocean - Open Sea. It takes a very skilled Skipper to manoeuvre a passenger ferry through these waters 365 days a year. The current Skippers and their craft are well used to this crossing - a concern of the Islanders - which isn’t a new concern but you may not have heard it mentioned on this particular thread before - is that a New Skipper using an unfamiliar (to them) craft may not be able to safely navigate this stretch of water so well.

If you have travelled across this water yourself then feel free to comment - if you haven’t I’d suggest taking a trip to Tory ASAP so as you can continue to make snide remarks on this thread.

A Safe Trustworthy Sea Passage in a Safe Trustworthy Boat is all that is required.

As someone mentioned on another thread here - Bertie Ahearns Car from his time as Taoiseach still passes its NCT so why is Leo Varadkar not using it?????

ozmo

aileach wrote: »

Here we go again!!! They want a SAFE boat!

Again with the word “safe”.
I’m only going on the interviews with an islander and a FF politician I heard - and all agreed the replacement boat was accessed and certified Safe.

I didn’t hear anyone say the boat offered was unsafe. Only that they wanted a safe boat.

Other arguments were like maybe the hull shape is wrong and maybe it will take longer to dock..

They need to get their arguments straight and upfront if they have them.

wexandproud

aileach wrote: »

Here we go again!!! They want a shiny new boat!! Cop on people! They are under no illusions - there will never be a shiny new boat. They want a SAFE boat!

They are not all friends/relations of the current contract owners. Many of them can’t stand the current contract owners.

You ask questions on here - there seem to be very few Tory people following this thread anyway - but when they do come on and attempt to give their perspective you simply ignore them and go back to your preconceived notions!

The 9 míle sea journey from Tory Island to the mainland crosses a very treacherous stretch of the Atlantic Ocean - Open Sea. It takes a very skilled Skipper to manoeuvre a passenger ferry through these waters 365 days a year. The current Skippers and their craft are well used to this crossing - a concern of the Islanders - which isn’t a new concern but you may not have heard it mentioned on this particular thread before - is that a New Skipper using an unfamiliar (to them) craft may not be able to safely navigate this stretch of water so well.

If you have travelled across this water yourself then feel free to comment - if you haven’t I’d suggest taking a trip to Tory ASAP so as you can continue to make snide remarks on this thread.

A Safe Trustworthy Sea Passage in a Safe Trustworthy Boat is all that is required.

As someone mentioned on another thread here - Bertie Ahearns Car from his time as Taoiseach still passes its NCT so why is Leo Varadkar not using it?????

but they will have a safe boat . it will be fully surveyed . Can you please point out where posters from the islands have put their points forward and been ignored , they might not have agreed with the response but they were not ignored
Now we have another reason why the new service provider is unsuitable , the skipper is the problem . While i have not traveled this particular route i have 20 odd yrs commercial fishing , including 6 months in donegal so i have more than a little experience of boats and water , not just an hour back and forward to an island

mikemac2

People who live permanently on Tory Island (Co. Donegal) are entitled to 8 (or 4 return) free journeys on the seasonal helicopter service operating between the island and the mainland.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/extra_social_welfare_benefits/free_travel.html

Not sure was it mentioned already. I know they think the newly refurbished boat is too old but they also get an entitlement to helicopter trips so it’s not like the State does nothing for them

aileach

mikemac2 wrote: »

Not sure was it mentioned already. I know they think the newly refurbished boat is too old but they also get an entitlement to helicopter trips so it’s not like the State does nothing for them

IF they have a free travel pass!!!

Please put your answers in context!

The helicopter service is seasonal and very useful when high seas prevent the ferry from crossing BUT it’s not an entitlement and the vast majority of passengers pay to use this service.

ohnonotgmail

aileach wrote: »

IF they have a free travel pass!!!

Please put your answers in context!

The helicopter service is seasonal and very useful when high seas prevent the ferry from crossing BUT it’s not an entitlement and the vast majority of passengers pay to use this service.

can you tell us what is wrong with the boat that has been proposed for the ferry service?

seamus

aileach wrote: »

You ask questions on here - there seem to be very few Tory people following this thread anyway - but when they do come on and attempt to give their perspective you simply ignore them and go back to your preconceived notions!

Perspectives are irrelevant.

We're just asking for facts.

Of which there don't seem to be any. Now apparently the skipper of the new boat is incompetent.

I'm not a sailing person, but I do know there are many hours to be done to get a skipper's licence.

Claiming that only people who've done this trip are qualified to do it is ridiculous. It's like claiming that a commercial pilot who has never landed at Dublin, is not qualified to fly to Dublin.

Sure, the specifics will differ and local knowledge is always good. But that doesn't mean anyone lacking local knowledge is incompetent.

But aside from throwing out big scary phrases like "open sea", what FACTS do you have to support the position that the ferry or its skipper are unsuitable for this crossing?

Ahorseofaman

aileach wrote: »

The 9 m sea journey from Tory Island to the mainland crosses a very treacherous stretch of the Atlantic Ocean - Open Sea. It takes a very skilled Skipper to manoeuvre a passenger ferry through these waters 365 days a year. The current Skippers and their craft are well used to this crossing - a concern of the Islanders - which isn’t a new concern but you may not have heard it mentioned on this particular thread before - is that a New Skipper using an unfamiliar (to them) craft may not be able to safely navigate this stretch of water so well.

Surely the Skipper will have to certified as well?

CrankyHaus

aileach wrote: »

The 9 míle sea journey from Tory Island to the mainland crosses a very treacherous stretch of the Atlantic Ocean - Open Sea. It takes a very skilled Skipper to manoeuvre a passenger ferry through these waters 365 days a year.

It takes a very skilled skipper to manoeuvre a vessel though open sea?
This must be a windup.

I appreciate that Tory Sound is no picnic, and I'm sure the landing stages present challenges. However any qualified skipper can sail a boat through open sea up to conditions that are too bad for that boat to safely handle. When such conditions are forecast the boat simply does not leave harbour. You're very unlikely to get caught out by unexpected weather on a 9 mile trip.

As alluded to above a one hour back and forth trip to an Island visible from the coast is hardly Magellan's Voyage and would not be at the limit of the skills of any qualifed commercial skipper.

Can you give a factual basis for your claim that the new ferry cannot provide "a safe trustworthy passage in a safe trustworthy boat"?

Del2005

aileach wrote: »

Here we go again!!! They want a shiny new boat!! Cop on people! They are under no illusions - there will never be a shiny new boat. They want a SAFE boat!

They are not all friends/relations of the current contract owners. Many of them can’t stand the current contract owners.

You ask questions on here - there seem to be very few Tory people following this thread anyway - but when they do come on and attempt to give their perspective you simply ignore them and go back to your preconceived notions!

The 9 míle sea journey from Tory Island to the mainland crosses a very treacherous stretch of the Atlantic Ocean - Open Sea. It takes a very skilled Skipper to manoeuvre a passenger ferry through these waters 365 days a year. The current Skippers and their craft are well used to this crossing - a concern of the Islanders - which isn’t a new concern but you may not have heard it mentioned on this particular thread before - is that a New Skipper using an unfamiliar (to them) craft may not be able to safely navigate this stretch of water so well.

If you have travelled across this water yourself then feel free to comment - if you haven’t I’d suggest taking a trip to Tory ASAP so as you can continue to make snide remarks on this thread.

A Safe Trustworthy Sea Passage in a Safe Trustworthy Boat is all that is required.

As someone mentioned on another thread here - Bertie Ahearns Car from his time as Taoiseach still passes its NCT so why is Leo Varadkar not using it?????

So the 1st issue that was raised with the boat being too old is not an issue now, the height of the boat was raised as an issue is that not a problem anymore, the draft of the boat was too deep seems to no longer be an issue. Now the problem is the captain not being suitable, yet they have to be licensed to operate the service.

What excuse will they come up with next since their latest objection is proven to be BS?

I'm sure that everyone would love a new custom built vehicle for their public transport requirements but unfortunately the real world involves making cold hard decisions and if that means that a suitable 2nd hand vehicle will do the job it will be used.

daisychain123

Another issue the islanders have is the length of time the crossing is going to take. The current boat takes an hour, the new boat doesn’t have the same engine ‘power’ If that’s the right phrase to use and will take well over an hour according to locals.
This is not an upgrade!
They wanted a boat that could shorten the journey instead they’re given one which takes longer. It’s a bad enough journey as it is never mind being on the boat for longer now, especially with young kids etc.
Again this was said to the department at the time but surprise surprise their request was ignored!
So longer journeys on the Queen of Aran, a reduction in the number of scheduled runs we’re told and possible difficulties entering the harbour in Magheroarty. As I said before it’s not just one issue there’s a few.

Iv seen so many different claims now.

Im going to have to start a spreadsheet to keep track of what is wrong with this boat and its crew.

Widdensushi

A bigger, slower and deeper boat should be steadier, yet the Queen of aran is supposedly rollier. Something doesn't add up.

wexandproud

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Iv seen so many different claims now.

Im going to have to start a spreadsheet to keep track of what is wrong with this boat and its crew.

save me the bother and send me a copy and if possible update as required .

Widdensushi

Last trip for Queen of aran is October max speed ten knots average 9.4 for 105 mile trip. Tormor max is 9. 1 and average 8knots

Bob_Marley

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Iv seen so many different claims now.

Im going to have to start a spreadsheet to keep track of what is wrong with this boat and its crew.

Makes a change from all the whining claims earlier in the thread that no one could say what was wrong with it.

The fact is the department made an absolute shambles of consulting with the public, the assessment of requirements, and the tender.

Del2005

Bob_Marley wrote: »

Makes a change from all the whining claims earlier in the thread that no one could say what was wrong with it.

The fact is the department made an absolute shambles of consulting with the public, the assessment of requirements, and the tender.

Consulting means asking for opinions and view points. The decision is then made on what the department thinks are important not the people they consulted.

Just because the locals want a Rolls Royce of a boat doesn't mean that the Taxpayers have to supply it. If they don't want the subsidised boat why don't they source their own suitable vessel?

nice_guy80

Del2005 wrote: »

Consulting means asking for opinions and view points. The decision is then made on what the department thinks are important not the people they consulted.

Just because the locals want a Rolls Royce of a boat doesn't mean that the Taxpayers have to supply it. If they don't want the subsidised boat why don't they source their own suitable vessel?

same as in Dublin

if the Dart carriages aren't up to scratch, the locals should club together and buy a more luxurious model

Del2005

nice_guy80 wrote: »

same as in Dublin

if the Dart carriages aren't up to scratch, the locals should club together and buy a more luxurious model

The locals want more frequent darts, they haven't got them. The bus users want more frequent buses they don't come anymore frequently and after the last route changes most now take longer than before, my bus used to take about 40 minutes to Dublin last time I took it it was over an hour due to travelling past multiple more locations.

So if services used by hundreds of thousands of people a day are not taking these people's opinions on board why should a boat used by less people in a year than one bus route moves in a day be taken into account?

ohnonotgmail

Bob_Marley wrote: »

Makes a change from all the whining claims earlier in the thread that no one could say what was wrong with it.

The fact is the department made an absolute shambles of consulting with the public, the assessment of requirements, and the tender.

well there have been plenty of claims as to what is wrong with the new boat but nothing has been substantiated.

wexie

Del2005 wrote: »

So if services used by hundreds of thousands of people a day are not taking these people's opinions on board why should a boat used by less people in a year than one bus route moves in a day be taken into account?

Maybe they should all threaten to move out to the islands

Ubbquittious

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Iv seen so many different claims now.

Im going to have to start a spreadsheet to keep track of what is wrong with this boat and its crew.

You'll run out of space fast. Better start a MySQL cluster instead

Deusexmachina

Load of moany arse troublemakers. Buy your own boat or get off the island.

aquickword

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

well there have been plenty of claims as to what is wrong with the new boat but nothing has been substantiated.

It's sitting like this today in killybegs.

ohnonotgmail

aquickword wrote: »

It's sitting like this today in killybegs.

So? It is expected to start working tomorrow?

daisychain123

aquickword wrote: »

It's sitting like this today in killybegs.

What an absolute joke! And this is the upgrade they expect the Tory people to accept and be ready for service starting April 1st?!
Yet people will stay say they should accept her. The mind boggles!!!

aquickword

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

So? It is expected to start working tomorrow?

Yeah. For scuba divers to be visiting hopefully. Actually it kinda looks like that was what it had been doing previously. If you were shown that boat in two halves at the bottom of the sea your opinion still would change.. Time to cop on.

ozmo

parishsavings wrote: »

I saw some photos on facebook last week of the new fitout of the Queen of Aran, very impressive, unfortunately I can't post a link as the photos don't seem to be on anymore

aquickword wrote: »

It's sitting like this today in killybegs.

This site is showing that photo is before the refurb.

http://mooneyboats.ie/news/queen-of-aran/




Edit: Update: Although titled as the Queen of Aran on the Ship Engineers website - This does not appear in fact to be that ship....

ohnonotgmail

aquickword wrote: »

Yeah. For scuba divers to be visiting hopefully. Actually it kinda looks like that was what it had been doing previously. If you were shown that boat in two halves at the bottom of the sea your opinion still would change.. Time to cop on.

it seems your post was the epitome of fake news.

Sleepy

The people of Tory obviously haven't heard a few old phrases: "don't look a gift horse in the mouth" and "beggars can't be choosers".

You don't get to choose how others spend their money on you.

aquickword

ozmo wrote: »

I call fake news on aquickword's post...

This site is showing that photo is before the refurb.

http://mooneyboats.ie/news/queen-of-aran/

That boat was towed to killybegs looking like that 2 nights ago.

ohnonotgmail

aquickword wrote: »

That boat was towed to killybegs looking like that 2 nights ago.

you said it was like that today. now it was 2 days ago. more changing stories.

daisychain123

I can assure you the boat only arrived in Killybegs yesterday after being towed up.

ohnonotgmail

daisychain123 wrote: »

I can assure you the boat only arrived in Killybegs yesterday after being towed up.

are you sure about that? Because there are pics of the boat on the doolin ferry company facebook page from 11 months ago and the boat is in the mooney yard and looks nothing like the pic that was posted.

JupiterKid

Our offshore islands need support in order to survive, and Tory is no exception. Enough islands have been abandoned over the past century due to isolation and poor services.

If that means subsidising them through improved ferry services, thanks so be it. Very few of our offshore islands can avail of purely commercial ferry services. That said Tory is reputed to be more than a little "strange", in a Wicker Man sort of way...

ohnonotgmail

JupiterKid wrote: »

Our offshore islands need support in order to survive, and Tory is no exception. Enough islands have been abandoned over the past century due to isolation and poor services.

If that means subsidising them through improved ferry services, thanks so be it. Very few of our offshore islands can avail of purely commercial ferry services. That said Tory is reputed to be more than a little "strange", in a Wicker Man sort of way...

they do have a subsidised ferry service but they want a better one. at other peoples expense.

aquickword

check mooney boats facebook page. they put the video up themselve 7 hours ago.
https://www.facebook.com/mooneyboats/videos/1659667070738082/

aquickword

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

are you sure about that? Because there are pics of the boat on the doolin ferry company facebook page from 11 months ago and the boat is in the mooney yard and looks nothing like the pic that was posted.

https://www.facebook.com/mooneyboats/videos/1659667070738082/ taken this morning by themselves.

aquickword

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you said it was like that today. now it was 2 days ago. more changing stories.

https://www.facebook.com/mooneyboats/videos/1659667070738082/ check it for yourself taken today.

aquickword

aquickword wrote: »

That boat was towed to killybegs looking like that 2 nights ago.

https://www.facebook.com/mooneyboats/videos/1659667070738082/

aquickword

ozmo wrote: »

I call fake news on aquickword's post...

This site is showing that photo is before the refurb.

http://mooneyboats.ie/news/queen-of-aran/

https://www.facebook.com/mooneyboats/videos/1659667070738082/ taken by mooney boats this morning. Check around the 1 min mark. Everything you seem to post is fake. You gonna call Mooney boats liars as well?

aquickword

https://www.facebook.com/mooneyboats/videos/1659667070738082/ This is the Queen of Aran taken today by Mooney boats themselves. you'll see it at around the 1 min mark on the video.

I was just about to post link to killybegs today. The boat is there in the same shape as the pic above.

I’m on no side in this debate but fairs fair. The boat needs some TLC.

https://www.facebook.com/mooneyboats/videos/1659667070738082/

ozmo

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I was just about to post link to killybegs today. The boat is there in the same shape as the pic above.

I’m on no side in this debate but fairs fair. The boat needs some TLC.

https://www.facebook.com/mooneyboats/videos/1659667070738082/

Confused! Which photo exactly do you think is more accurate?

* The drone video on the facebook page (link) ?
* or the engineering works photos on the mooneyboats website (link) (all shiney and new looking)?


So either:
- the drone footage on the facebook page must be older than they are saying by a few months as they would hardly undo all that work....

- or could they have the photos mixed up on their mooneyboats website and the photos are not of the Queen of Aran even though they say it is???




Confused!

I see someone’s asked the question on Mooney’s page. You won’t get an answer till tomorrow (whoever you are) as it’s after 6pm.

I’m confused too. This Doolin ferry “tranquility” was taken out of the water at Mooney’s last Wednesday
https://www.facebook.com/mooneyboats/photos/a.169130683125069.30870.167546616616809/1653371808034275/?type=3

ozmo

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I see someone’s asked the question on Mooney’s page. You won’t get an answer till tomorrow (whoever you are) as it’s after 6pm.

I’m confused too. This Doolin ferry “tranquility” was taken out of the water at Mooney’s last Wednesday
https://www.facebook.com/mooneyboats/photos/a.169130683125069.30870.167546616616809/1653371808034275/?type=3

Think you have it there - that one looks much more like the one they are calling "Queen of Aran" on their website...