Trouble on Tory Island...

ohnonotgmail

Whoarewe wrote: »

I’m not gonna be arguing with anyone. I’m only saying what’s true. This thread is full of lies. I just wish that people would get the full story from start to finish before jumping on the people of Tory the way they are on this thread. It’s awful to see people from our own country be little The people on Tory Island. That’s exactly what’s going on here. The government made mistakes right left and centre.. not the Tory islanders, why should they suffer because of the governments mistakes. All they want is the right to a safe up to date service for themselves and the tourist that actually make the 9 mile trip to the island. It’s not a massive ask. No word on all the other places in Ireland getting subsidies. I mean on mainland Ireland!!!

well then quote their posts and reply to them. Its not that difficult to understand.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Stunning looking place.

Harry Palmr

Amazing that a tiny island with a tiny population suffers from such terrible planning. 4 "villages"!

PRidley

Whoarewe wrote: »

When they get a proper roll on roll off service and fix all the roads, not just do half here and half there, need proper drainage too. then they definitely should pay everything on their vehicles. Tax, insurance and nct. I don’t disagree with that.

I understand the main road on Tory is in excellent condition having being completely tarmaced in the past few years.

Pity people on the mainland could decide not to bother taxing and insuring their vehicles while expecting the country to provide them with well surfaced roads.

PRidley

somefeen wrote: »

Still sounds like nonsense to me.

What they should asking for is to dredge the pier so boats with a greater draught can get in. Seeing as they are so concerned about stability it kinda seems disengenius to complain that this new boat is marginally taller but significantly deeper?

Is the proposed boat significantly deeper than the existing? Does anyone know the actual drafts?

Since this seems to be the main concern of the Tory islanders it would be useful to the rest of us understanding their concerns if they could give the actual values on this thread.

PRidley

Whoarewe wrote: »

This thread is full of lies.

What are the lies?

wexandproud

PRidley wrote: »

Is the proposed boat significantly deeper than the existing? Does anyone know the actual drafts?

Since this seems to be the main concern of the Tory islanders it would be useful to the rest of us understanding their concerns if they could give the actual values on this thread.

there is a picture of both boats further back in the thread and the water line of both vessels is marked at [ about ]1.7 mtrs and when you look at both boats in the cradle there appears to be very little difference in them windage wise . What would be far more important would be the draft when loaded , the might carry a load differently

PRidley

wexandproud wrote: »

there is a picture of both boats further back in the thread and the water line of both vessels is marked at [ about ]1.7 mtrs and when you look at both boats in the cradle there appears to be very little difference in them windage wise . What would be far more important would be the draft when loaded , the might carry a load differently

Hopefully the people from Tory who presumably know the facts will give us that information.

wexandproud

PRidley wrote: »

Hopefully the people from Tory who presumably know the facts will give us that information.

i would far prefer to take my information from people qualified to do so . If a surveyor tells us , or the ''lines plan '' for the two boats can be provided and the draft is significantly more the fair enough , the islanders were right

the actual draft markings on the pictures above would be inspected by a qualified surveyor not just painted on where someone thinks they should be and where they are painted there would usually be a short welded mark to make repainting accurate

Whoarewe

PRidley wrote: »

What are the lies?

“Could easily just be a "we don't like change!" complaint from locals who've gotten friendly with the last captain. “

“the current boat owner may simply be enlisting family and friends to support his position after he lost the tender.”

What would you call this?

Whoarewe

PRidley wrote: »

I understand the main road on Tory is in excellent condition having being completely tarmaced in the past few years.

Pity people on the mainland could decide not to bother taxing and insuring their vehicles while expecting the country to provide them with well surfaced roads.

This thread is about the people of Tory wanting best for their Island. Not about cars, tax, Insurance and nct. Totally off the point. Keep that for another day.

Atlantic Dawn

Whoarewe wrote: »

People on Tory have vehicles taxed, insured and nct’d.. they are on the mainland, because they don’t have a roll on roll off daily service. How on earth would you expect those people to be able to insure tax and nct 2 cars? People in this country can’t even pay for one car never mind 2. This thread is going off the point completely

They have personalised plates too, they have it all

Widdensushi

Do the ferries bring in the fuel for the generators or is there a boat for that? I presume there are big storage tanks?

Whoarewe

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

They have personalised plates too, they have it all

Great picture 🤗

Bob_Marley

Whoarewe wrote: »

“Could easily just be a "we don't like change!" complaint from locals who've gotten friendly with the last captain. “

“the current boat owner may simply be enlisting family and friends to support his position after he lost the tender.”

What would you call this?

It's regional hatred pure and simple, if this was an Island in the south of the country they would be falling over themselves to support better investment and treatment for a natural treasure.

Threatening to leave the Island is completely the wrong tactic though, that's exactly what they want. - You should should all be threatening to always keep the Island well inhabited with locals forever, if you don't get a fit for purpose service - they'll have a fit at that, and will be tripping over themselves to try and get a decent one in place then.

Lackey

511 wrote: »

That's a load of bollocks. FG are trying to rollout fibre optic broadband to every one-off house in the backarse of nowhere, while they keep stalling on Dublin North Metro. They also built a dual carriage way to bypass Tuam which has a population of almost 9,000. The government are also building a bridge to bypass New Ross, with its population of 5,000. Considering this entire country is subsidised by Dublin and Cork, rural areas receive a hughly disproportionate amount of investment in their favour compared to what they put in.

You’ve obviously never spent an hour trying to get through New Ross and Enniscorthy On a Friday ....it’s not just locals that use the roads

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

mikhail

Whoarewe wrote: »

“Could easily just be a "we don't like change!" complaint from locals who've gotten friendly with the last captain. “

“the current boat owner may simply be enlisting family and friends to support his position after he lost the tender.”

What would you call this?

Lies are intentionally false statements. You see the words "could ... be" and "may ... be"? These are not even statements, much less intentionally false. So we're left with two options: either you're too ignorant to tell the difference, or you're making a transparent and clumsy attempt to attack anyone questioning your narrative on this ferry bull****. Which one is it?

downwesht

Is there any Tory islander on this thread who might educate those who know nothing about offshore island life?Perhaps they could outline the basics of living on an island and what it implies!
Having lived fulltime and worked on an island for over 3 years and visited many islands,not yet to Tory! I have nothing but respect for island people .Island life is not for everyone but neither is city or townlife!

Whoarewe

mikhail wrote: »

Lies are intentionally false statements. You see the words "could ... be" and "may ... be"? These are not even statements, much less intentionally false. So we're left with two options: either you're too ignorant to tell the difference, or you're making a transparent and clumsy attempt to attack anyone questioning your narrative on this ferry bull****. Which one is it?

Malign maybe? No? Could be?

Nomis21

Whoarewe wrote: »

“Could easily just be a "we don't like change!" complaint from locals who've gotten friendly with the last captain. “

“the current boat owner may simply be enlisting family and friends to support his position after he lost the tender.”

What would you call this?

The current boat owner lives on the mainland and has no family on the island. Sure he might have some friends on the island after doing a good job these last few years.

Whoarewe

Nomis21 wrote: »

The current boat owner lives on the mainland and has no family on the island. Sure he might have some friends on the island after doing a good job these last few years.

Yeah exactly, he has absolutely nothing to do with Tory or it’s people

Bob_Marley

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Plenty of Irish Islanders were forced to leave their Islands over the years, and that's exactly the way the haters like it.

Whoarewe

Bob_Marley wrote: »

Plenty of Irish Islanders were forced to leave their Islands over the years, and that's exactly the way the haters like it.

It was a huge shame that many families left Tory island back in the 1980s. It was a massive blow. All down to the government again, not providing the proper facilities. It’s a shame and disgrace

Widdensushi

Whoarewe wrote: »

It was a huge shame that many families left Tory island back in the 1980s. It was a massive blow. All down to the government again, not providing the proper facilities. It’s a shame and disgrace

Facilities for what? I don't mean to be disrespectful but there is not a lot to keep a bigger population there. Short of getting a dancing seal or something unique from a tourism perspective. It's a beautiful island but a bit barren for agriculture and a bit remote for most industries.

Whoarewe

Widdensushi wrote: »

Facilities for what? I don't mean to be disrespectful but there is not a lot to keep a bigger population there. Short of getting a dancing seal or something unique from a tourism perspective. It's a beautiful island but a bit barren for agriculture and a bit remote for most industries.

It’s home for the people of Tory. It couldn’t be any simpler than that.

Whoarewe

Whoarewe wrote: »

It was a huge shame that many families left Tory island back in the 1980s. It was a massive blow. All down to the government again, not providing the proper facilities. It’s a shame and disgrace

Hadnt half the country emigrated in the 80's, it wasnt just the island.

The whole irish economy was in a hoop.

Whoarewe

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Hadnt half the country emigrated in the 80's, it wasnt just the island.

The whole irish economy was in a hoop.

Who do you think is at fault for that?

Whoarewe

Whoarewe wrote: »

Who do you think is at fault for that?

The electorate.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

PRidley

Nomis21 wrote: »

The current boat owner lives on the mainland and has no family on the island. Sure he might have some friends on the island after doing a good job these last few years.

From the stories I’ve heard from islanders the current boat service was being complained about by islanders for years.

PRidley

Whoarewe wrote: »

“Could easily just be a "we don't like change!" complaint from locals who've gotten friendly with the last captain. “

“the current boat owner may simply be enlisting family and friends to support his position after he lost the tender.”

What would you call this?

I call them possible reasons for the “unhappiness” of the Tory islanders. I do not think they are lies. Why do you think they are?

In the absence of facts which show why the proposed boat is not suitable posters will naturally assume there is another agenda. It would serve the Tory community well for one of their experts in maritime matters to post the relevant problems with the proposed vessel on this forum.

Bob_Marley

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Yes, we found out Charlie and his pals had to press their charvet shirts, to them those were the real pressing issues.

PRidley

Whoarewe wrote: »

This thread is about the people of Tory wanting best for their Island. Not about cars, tax, Insurance and nct. Totally off the point. Keep that for another day.

It is not really off the point.

If the people of Tory are looking for a better boat it will cost more money. The government get money from taxes which includes road taxes. Why should the people of Tory expect the best when they don’t see the need to pay their taxes.

Re insurance - people who pay insurance are contributing to the fund for uninsured drivers. Inviting more tourists onto your island with the better boat you want will increase the risk of accidents involving uninsured drivers. Law abiding citizens will end up paying more because of that increased risk.

So these things are all relevant.

jackofalltrades

So after 280 odd posts discussing this, it all seems to come down to "the boat is too old".
If there's some other better reason, like issues with docking or the new vessel being a lot less comfortable or stable then I'd love to hear it.
Hopefully the islanders position will be better articulated at the protest on Wednesday.

PRidley

Whoarewe wrote: »

It’s home for the people of Tory. It couldn’t be any simpler than that.

I don’t think there are many people who would disagree with that sentiment.

But whether we like it or not the reality is that there is very little to keep younger people in the more remote parts of our country. This also applies in the mainland. There are many, many people who would like to live in the remote areas which they call home but because they have to pay bills and work they have to move to where the work is.

Unfortunately it is the same in Tory. It is a matter for the Tory people to create their own opportunities to make their island survive. It is hard to understand why an islander did apply to run the ferry - or maybe they did.

PRidley

Bob_Marley wrote: »

Plenty of Irish Islanders were forced to leave their Islands over the years, and that's exactly the way the haters like it.

An plenty of Irish mainlanders were forced to leave the country too. I think your use of terms like “haters” is inappropriate in this discussion.

I think the people who do not see your - or the Tory islanders - point of view would be willing to consider logical, reasoned argument with backup facts as to why the new boat isn’t suitable. All you have offered in this entire thread are baseless opinions and dismissive statements. I don’t believe it is doing your argument any good whatsoever.

Bob_Marley

PRidley wrote: »

An plenty of Irish mainlanders were forced to leave the country too. I think your use of terms like “haters” is inappropriate in this discussion.

I think the people who do not see your - or the Tory islanders - point of view would be willing to consider logical, reasoned argument with backup facts as to why the new boat isn’t suitable. All you have offered in this entire thread are baseless opinions and dismissive statements. I don’t believe it is doing your argument any good whatsoever.

I'm sure a new reg like yourself will get over it and get another contract for the old dear.

Bob_Marley

Bob_Marley wrote: »

I'm sure a new reg like yourself will get over it and get another contract for the old dear.

Perhaps you might like to think about why your getting so little support here.

Bob_Marley

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Perhaps you might like to think about why your getting so little support here.

Haters are going to hate, nothing spectacular there. I just like exposing it

Bob_Marley

Bob_Marley wrote: »

Haters are going to hate, nothing spectacular there. I just like exposing it

You have exposed nothing. I have no particular grudge against the islanders.

People will support you if you can put up a decent argument against the new arrangement.

But you havent.

Bob_Marley

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

You have exposed nothing. I have no particular grudge against the islanders.

People will support you if you can put up a decent argument against the new arrangement.

But you havent.

Funny how you don't ask the actual poster from Tory posting here though.

Odyssey 2005

Bob_Marley wrote: »

I'm sure a new reg like yourself will get over it and get another contract for the old dear.

Your not that long here yourself.!!!
Round about the time the contract news broke.;)

Nomis21

PRidley wrote: »

Nomis21 wrote: »

The current boat owner lives on the mainland and has no family on the island. Sure he might have some friends on the island after doing a good job these last few years.

From the stories I’ve heard from islanders the current boat service was being complained about by islanders for years.

And what where the complaints about, do you know?

Loinnir9

I am a Tory Islander and Tory is my home. Island life is a completely different way of living, and until you've experienced it you have no idea what it's like and what challenges we face on a day-to-day basis. One thing that has never changed is our dependence on the ferry service. The sea is our main means of transport of food and other goods, travel and tourism.

My family, along with many others, depends heavily on the ferry service to return home to Tory regularly. Many islanders live and work on the mainland, in Falcarragh and Letterkenny, and use the ferry to get home on the weekends and for holidays. Islanders pay taxes, just as any other Irish citizen, so why should we be denied a decent service to bring us home at the weekends, just like other people from rural areas working in cities and going home at the weekends? We need a service that we can rely on and a boat that we know is safe - why should we be denied a safe, reliable service?

The Tormór is the current ferry which is in service. The Tormór was purpose-built for the treacherous weather conditions of the Tory Channel. The proposed new ferry, the Queen of Aran, is an old cast-off from the Aran Islands, and the Aran Islanders were happy to see her go because they were provided with a new, better ferry service when she left. The Queen of Aran has only ever been used in sheltered bays. There's no comparison between the two ferries - why should Tory have to make do with the Aran Islands' leftovers?

In bad weather, the Queen of Aran will not be safe to travel on. The shape of the boat is what makes her unsuitable for the route. The Queen of Aran is taller than the Tormór, which means that the wind will catch it at the top, making for a much rougher journey. As can be seen from pictures posted previously, she has high sides with no railings, which will also trap wind. The Tormór was built with railings all around it to allow the wind to escape and to allow waves to wash in and out, which results in minimal rolling. Of course, due to the fact that the route is through the wild, open Atlantic, it is still a rough journey and choppiness is to be expected, but the shape and design of the Tormór reduces this as much as possible.

The smaller fast ferry, the Whispering Dawn, runs when weather conditions are unsuitable for the Tormór, allowing a ferry service even in very unfavourable weather. The Queen of Aran simply can't compete with the current service.

The refurbishments which the Queen of Aran has undergone involved being fitted with new engines, as well as 'airline seating and flat-screen TVs'. Tory Islanders couldn't care less about how modern the ferry is as long as it is safe and suited for the journey, which the Queen of Aran clearly is not!

We are well used to being stuck on the island with no ferry service for days at a time when the sea is rough. The Queen of Aran will not be able to navigate the weather conditions that the Tormór and the Whispering Dawn can, which means that this type of occurrence will become all the more common.

The current contract-holder is not the owner of the hotel on the island, nor has the owner of the hotel ever held the contract for the ferry service. The man you are referring to, Patrick Doohan, isn't even the current owner of the hotel on Tory. Mr Doohan did run a small fast ferry between Magheroarty and Tory for a number of years, but he did not hold the official contract to do so and hasn't run this service in years.

The island population has been rising in recent years, with a naíonra even opening on the island recently, but should the Queen of Aran come into service many young families will be faced with having to uproot and move to the mainland. No parents want to risk their childrens' lives in order to reach essential services like hospitals or even just to visit family, so naturally the most viable option is to move to mainland Donegal. But why should we bother protecting the island's population? Who cares if Tory becomes a 'retirement island'? Well, you should care.

Tory is a thriving Gaeltacht. Children raised on the island are native Irish speakers and also benefit from the excellent teacher-pupil ratio when they go to school on the island. Recently, families have moved from the mainland to Tory so that their children can reap these benefits. These students go on to university in Dublin, Galway and all around the country, but a huge majority of them come back to Tory when they graduate. Many of you have asked why anyone would willingly live on an island, isolated from the hustle and bustle of the mainland. The answer lies in the sense of community that is prevalent throughout the island. Very few places in Ireland have retained the open-door sense of community that you can find in Tory. If you're interested in learning more about island life, and why we need to preserve it, there were a set of documentaries about life on Tory created by Macalla Teo, which were shown on RTÉ, that I would recommend watching: 'On The Block: Oileán Thoraigh', 'On The Block: Road Trip' and 'Around The Block'.

We islanders know that we've been very lucky with the service we've had over the past number of years, and we don't want to see an unsuitable, unsafe ferry come into service. The ferry is our daily commute - why would we accept a downgrade?

We're not going to sit back and allow this to happen, so yes, we're going to kick up a fuss, because this treatment isn't acceptable. We'll be at the Dáil at 11am on Wednesday 14th February - and you're all welcome to join us in demanding fair treatment and a safe, reliable service.

PRidley

Bob_Marley wrote: »

I'm sure a new reg like yourself will get over it and get another contract for the old dear.

I don’t understand your comment. What do you mean by “contract”?

PRidley

Nomis21 wrote: »

And what where the complaints about, do you know?

They were about the quality of the existing boat (noisy and cramped), failure to provide the planned service on a regular basis, leaving earlier than the time on the timetable for example.

PRidley

Loinnir9 wrote: »

The Queen of Aran has only ever been used in sheltered bays.


The smaller fast ferry, the Whispering Dawn, runs when weather conditions are unsuitable for the Tormór, allowing a ferry service even in very unfavourable weather. The Queen of Aran simply can't compete with the current service.
.

From information available online the Queen of Aran has operated from Doolin to the Aran islands in Galway and from Doolin to the Cliffs of Moher. Neither of those routes could be considered to be in “sheltered bays”.

How can a small boat can run safely on a day when a bigger one can’t in unfavorable weather conditions? That doesn’t make logical sense.

aquickword

"Its not hard to understand how it worked. I sold the vessel two years ago and due to the fact that she would not operate to Tory untill 2018 I took the opportunity to Lease this fine vessel back for two seasons." This is a comment made by the "previous" owner of the Queen Of Aran yesterday evening on a thread on facebook. Now can anyone explain to me how he knew 2 seasons ago that this boat would have the contract for Tory when the decision apparently hadn't even been made yet?

aquickword

PRidley wrote: »

From information available online the Queen of Aran has operated from Doolin to the Aran islands in Galway and from Doolin to the Cliffs of Moher. Neither of those routes could be considered to be in “sheltered bays”.

How can a small boat can run safely on a day when a bigger one can’t in unfavorable weather conditions? That doesn’t make logical sense.

If you would also checked online you would see that Queen of Aran is not licensed to carry cargo. It's a passenger boat only. Tor mor I believe was purposely built for cargo and passengers.