Liam Miller RIP

Fr Tod Umptious

Corholio wrote: »

What should have been an easy 'win' for the GAA, they have somehow turned it into 'leave us alone or we'll get our lawyers'. Shocking and yet not shocking at all.

But how could it have been as easy win ?

They have rules that cannot be ammended on the fly for situations like this.

And as for the legal aspect all they are doing is getting legal advice regardling the public funds, because it's something that people are now questioning.

They are not treathening anyone with legal action as you are implying.

Fr Tod Umptious

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Petition can be signed here.

https://www.change.org/p/gaa-lets-get-the-liam-miller-match-to-p%C3%A1irc-u%C3%AD-chaoimh

Better off to petition your local GAA club to bring a motion to the county board and to then to Congress to allow opening of GAA stadiums for this sort of event

That's how Croke Park was opened during the rebuilding of Landsdowne.

Burkie1203

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But how could it have been as easy win ?

They have rules that cannot be ammended on the fly for situations like this.

And as for the legal aspect all they are doing is getting legal advice regardling the public funds, because it's something that people are now questioning.

They are not treathening anyone with legal action as you are implying.

Gaa can give cork county board the nod to host game. And then tell them publicly not to be so bold in future. Gaa control the punishment so they can allow it

Anyone arguing in favour of the gaa is a fool

Corholio

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But how could it have been as easy win ?

They have rules that cannot be ammended on the fly for situations like this.

And as for the legal aspect all they are doing is getting legal advice regardling the public funds, because it's something that people are now questioning.

They are not treathening anyone with legal action as you are implying.

I understand that you are on the GAA side of this but even seasoned GAA analysts etc are struggling to defend it and are being honest about the situation the GAA have got themselves into. I meant that the fact they would feel the need to mention lawyers etc about hosting a charity match was quite a bungled misstep imo. But as ever in anything GAA versus debates, people will not budge from whatever defence either side has so debate in essence is mostly pointless.

OldMrBrennan83

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OldMrBrennan83

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cms88

Bridge93 wrote: »

People aren't complaining about it hosting concerts they're questioning why if it can host concerts so openly it has such an issue with other sports.

Tax payer money was used for the Aviva. It's the national stadium. Not one of dozens of regional grounds funded out of tax payer money. Lansdowne road has hosted a number of different sports down the years from the obvious to things like tennis and athletics. We won't really know it's stance currently until a situation arose where use was requested by a random other sport

There's no need for a ground bigger than 7k. Cork City get the biggest attendances in the league yet 7k is more than enough 90% of the time

Surely they can make up their own mind as to what they don and don't want to host? Seeing as me now life in a pro choice world and all.

Fr Tod Umptious

Corholio wrote: »

I understand that you are on the GAA side of this but even seasoned GAA analysts etc are struggling to defend it and are being honest about the situation the GAA have got themselves into. I meant that the fact they would feel the need to mention lawyers etc about hosting a charity match was quite a bungled misstep imo. But as ever in anything GAA versus debates, people will not budge from whatever defence either side has so debate in essence is mostly pointless.

Well my take on all of this is that the GAA should never even have been asked.

It's very much a Cork soccer occasion and a tribute to a Cork soccer player, regardless of the size Turner's Cross should have been the only place to host this.

Moving it to PUC just to allow more capacity would have taken away so much of the "authencity" from the occasion.

I doubt it would have sold out in PUC.

A sold out Turner's Cross paying tribute to one of their own on their own patch would be so much better than a half filled PUC.

cms88

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Well my take on all of this is that the GAA should never even have been asked.

It's very much a Cork soccer occasion and a tribute to a Cork soccer player, regardless of the size Turner's Cross should have been the only place to host this.

Moving it to PUC just to allow more capacity would have taken away so much of the "authencity" from the occasion.

I doubt it would have sold out in PUC.

A sold out Turner's Cross paying tribute to one of their own on their own patch would be so much better than a half filled PUC.

Totally agree with this. It wouldn't have sold out PUC. I can't understand why people don;t see this. It's om in the middle of the day on a Tuesday.

titan18

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But how could it have been as easy win ?

They have rules that cannot be ammended on the fly for situations like this.

And as for the legal aspect all they are doing is getting legal advice regardling the public funds, because it's something that people are now questioning.

They are not treathening anyone with legal action as you are implying.

https://www.americanfootball.ie/gift-comes-to-navan/

They managed to allow their rules to be ignored here so can't see how they can't again.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

pleas advice

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Petition can be signed here.

https://www.change.org/p/gaa-lets-get-the-liam-miller-match-to-p%C3%A1irc-u%C3%AD-chaoimh

can't happen, won't happen

Eod100

cms88 wrote: »

Totally agree with this. It wouldn't have sold out PUC. I can't understand why people don;t see this. It's om in the middle of the day on a Tuesday.

Who's saying it would have? If the idea is to raise more money for charity then bigger venue seems like a no brained. Big gap between 7k and 45k in fairness..

namloc1980

pleas advice wrote: »

can't happen, won't happen

How come they managed to play an American football game in Pairc Tailteann a few years back?

SligoBrewer

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But how could it have been as easy win ?

They have rules that cannot be ammended on the fly for situations like this.

And as for the legal aspect all they are doing is getting legal advice regardling the public funds, because it's something that people are now questioning.

They are not treathening anyone with legal action as you are implying.

Rules?

The GAA are pretty good at ignoring their own internal rules when it suits them.

Corholio

Patww79 wrote: »

You answered absolutely nothing he said and made another vague claim about lawyers in an attempt to make people think something completely different again.

An attempt to make people think something completely different? What on earth are you talking about? Them bringing up their lawyers has been roundly criticised today and everyone from GAA commentators to Henry Shefflin has questioned the 'we can't change the rules' excuse. I couldn't be bothered either way to be honest and am glad it's in Turners Cross but seeing these 'rules' as some sort of concrete, unbreakable divinity is only true when it suits them. At the end of the days it's some concrete and a grass pitch to play a charity sport game on, if some 'rule' needs changing to do just that then the implementation of such outdated nonsense needs to be looked at.

Bridge93

Wasn't a massive part of the 30m funding being given for PUC on the basis that it was to be redeveloped for the Rugby World Cup bid? Is rugby not treated the same way as football?

The rights and wrongs aside, the PR from this is a disaster for the GAA

Edit: RWC did play a role. Practicing barrister goes through the legal side of things here.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/analysis/taxpayers-deserve-to-reap-all-benefits-after-paying-for-pairc-ui-chaoimh-856485.html

Fr Tod Umptious

Bridge93 wrote: »

Wasn't a massive part of the 30m funding being given for PUC on the basis that it was to be redeveloped for the Rugby World Cup bid? Is rugby not treated the same way as football?

The rights and wrongs aside, the PR from this is a disaster for the GAA

The GAA had a special Congress back a few years ago that voted to make stadiums available for a RWC 2023 bid.

Fr Tod Umptious

Do people really think that this would be better in a half empty PUC on a Tuesday afternoon in September than in a full Turner's Cross on a Tuesday afternoon in September ?

Bridge93

Well it depends what you're looking for from it. An atmosphere or raising as much money as possible for the family and charity

sydthebeat

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Do people really think that this would be better in a half empty PUC on a Tuesday afternoon in September than in a full Turner's Cross on a Tuesday afternoon in September ?

Four times as much revenue

SligoBrewer

sydthebeat wrote: »

Four times as much revenue

Anyone who knows anything to do with football knows that these one off friendlies, legends matches or testimonials have very little to do with any discernible atmosphere and actual football and loads to do with shaking people down.

The cause is always pretty valid, this time it's especially moreso.

Fr Tod Umptious

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Do people really think that this would be better in a half empty PUC on a Tuesday afternoon in September than in a full Turner's Cross on a Tuesday afternoon in September ?

Are you asking is quadruple the revenue better?

Fr Tod Umptious

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Are you asking is quadruple the revenue better?

Everyone is assuming that it would sell out in PUC at a much chearer ticket price

I'm not convinced that is the case

As another poster put it

Most people's worries aren't the Millers or the charities, they just want a bigger capacity so it's cheaper to go. The GAA are a handy target to brush over that.

Fr Tod Umptious

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Everyone is assuming that it would sell out in PUC at a much chearer ticket price

I'm not convinced that is the case

As another poster put it

Most people's worries aren't the Millers or the charities, they just want a bigger capacity so it's cheaper to go. The GAA are a handy target to brush over that.

You said a half empty stadium which is 22500. Personally, I think you'd get more.

Doesn't have to sell out. Surely any extra is better

namloc1980

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Everyone is assuming that it would sell out in PUC at a much chearer ticket price

I'm not convinced that is the case

As another poster put it

Most people's worries aren't the Millers or the charities, they just want a bigger capacity so it's cheaper to go. The GAA are a handy target to brush over that.

It wouldn't be cheaper. Where did you get that from? Also nobody said it would definitely sell out either. You're creating your own little narrative there. Turner's Cross sold out in minutes so clearly the demand is there for more than the Cross can hold.

Bridge93

It doesn't need to sell out to raise more. Even if you allow for only 20,000 of the 45,000 to sell and set the price at €20 instead of €50, they would raise €50k more than they will at Turners Cross.

If 30,000 went at €30 they'd raise over €500k more in an optimistic scenario. Both still allows for it to be nowhere near a sellout. Given it took a few minutes to sell 7000 tickets at a high price I've no doubt they'd easily sell nearly 30000 if the price was dropped
Even if the price remained the same they'd easily sell twice the amount already sold

Fr Tod Umptious

namloc1980 wrote: »

It wouldn't be cheaper. Where did you get that from? Also nobody said it would definitely sell out either. You're creating your own little narrative there. Turner's Cross sold out in minutes so clearly the demand is there for more than the Cross can hold.

I never said it would be cheaper, I was just posting a quote from a poster who posted (and I'm paraphrasing now) that most people are not concerned about the charity, they just want it at a bigger venue so that the ticket price might be cheaper.

Fr Tod Umptious

RoboKlopp wrote: »

You said a half empty stadium which is 22500. Personally, I think you'd get more.

Doesn't have to sell out. Surely any extra is better

There will still be plenty of people who cannot go to this match because of the venue and/or the time who will contribute to the charity.

Many of them will be GAA fans too.

As I said before, this event is much better suited to Turner's Cross.

Fr Tod Umptious

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

There will still be plenty of people who cannot go to this match because of the venue and/or the time who will contribute to the charity.

Many of them will be GAA fans too.

As I said before, this event is much better suited to Turner's Cross.

I think you are completely missing the point. It's pretty obvious from the quick sale that there is more demand for this game. Therefore a bigger venue would be beneficial.

cms88

sydthebeat wrote: »

Four times as much revenue

If people are really that worried about it why don't they just donate themselves?

cms88

Eod100 wrote: »

Who's saying it would have? If the idea is to raise more money for charity then bigger venue seems like a no brained. Big gap between 7k and 45k in fairness..

Again as i said if people are worried about it raising more then they can very easily donate themselves

cms88

There's almost double the amount of pages on this now about it not being played in PUC then there was about him when he passed away.

Eod100

cms88 wrote: »

Again as i said if people are worried about it raising more then they can very easily donate themselves

Have you information on where people can donate? That's a genuine question btw. I'll gladly donate. I don't think doing so takes away from idea that GAA could easily host this if there was a will. Also really don't go along with idea that people only want a bigger venue for selfish reasons so it's cheaper to attend

SteelyDanJalapeno

cms88 wrote: »

There's almost double the amount of pages on this now about it not being played in PUC then there was about him when he passed away.

Yep, most of them from some spoofer banging on about how PUC wouldn't sell out.

It's an awful shame.

Fr Tod Umptious

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

Yep, most of them from some spoofer banging on about how PUC wouldn't sell out.

It's an awful shame.

It won't

As i just posted on the GAA version of this thread, as a GAA fan I'd have zero problem with this being played in PUC, I'd actually welcome it.

But what I don't like is ill informed "Johnny come lately's" and soccer people who have a constant jealousy of the GAA hold up this single event as some sort of virtue.

bot43

Rule 5.1 (a) allows GAA pitches to be used for "purposes not in conflict with the aims and objects of the association.."

This non competitive exhibition friendly fund raiser would not conflict in any way with any aims or objectives.

namloc1980

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

It won't

As i just posted on the GAA version of this thread, as a GAA fan I'd have zero problem with this being played in PUC, I'd actually welcome it.

But what I don't like is ill informed "Johnny come lately's" and soccer people who have a constant jealousy of the GAA hold up this single event as some sort of virtue.

"Soccer people". :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Corholio

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

It won't

As i just posted on the GAA version of this thread, as a GAA fan I'd have zero problem with this being played in PUC, I'd actually welcome it.

But what I don't like is ill informed "Johnny come lately's" and soccer people who have a constant jealousy of the GAA hold up this single event as some sort of virtue.

Honest question, is welcoming it the same as you think they should?

Fr Tod Umptious

Corholio wrote: »

Honest question, is welcoming it the same as you think they should?

Honest answer

I think it would be great if they could find a way to play it in PUC.

But I don't think it's as simple process and some suggest, and I also think by taking it away from Turner's Cross it would lose some of it's "authencity" as a tribute to Miller, but that's beside the point.

NukaCola

People can defend the GAA and quote rules as reasons to back up their valid point but at the end of the day the GAA are choosing not host a charity non competitive game for a Cork man that represented Cork and his country from u16 to Senior level. This kind of situation should really transcend their rules.

Its probably not as easy as some suggest but there is nothing to suggest they even tried. Rather than trying to find a way to make it happen, they sought legal advice to ensure they are right legally to not let it happen.

Not a great situation but Turners cross will put on a fitting tribute despite maybe not raising as much as they could.

cms88

NukaCola wrote: »

People can defend the GAA and quote rules as reasons to back up their valid point but at the end of the day the GAA are choosing not host a charity non competitive game for a Cork man that represented Cork and his country from u16 to Senior level. This kind of situation should really transcend their rules.

Its probably not as easy as some suggest but there is nothing to suggest they even tried. Rather than trying to find a way to make it happen, they sought legal advice to ensure they are right legally to not let it happen.

Not a great situation but Turners cross will put on a fitting tribute despite maybe not raising as much as they could.

But it's another sport. Why shouldn't they be aloud to decide?

As I've said Liam Miller actually played in Turners Cross so it's a much better chose for the game.

For all this talk about tax players money being used etc I read somewhere in the last few days when Tallaght Stadium was built it was about being used for GAA and they were told straight out no, so that argument doesn't stand up.

Where was this out poring when he actually passed away? I also read last night someone who wrote an article about him when he passed and very few took any notice. This thread as i've already pointed out is another example

Corholio

cms88 wrote: »

But it's another sport. Why shouldn't they be aloud to decide?

As I've said Liam Miller actually played in Turners Cross so it's a much better chose for the game.

For all this talk about tax players money being used etc I read somewhere in the last few days when Tallaght Stadium was built it was about being used for GAA and they were told straight out no, so that argument doesn't stand up.

Where was this out poring when he actually passed away? I also read last night someone who wrote an article about him when he passed and very few took any notice. This thread as i've already pointed out is another example

There was a substantial outpouring when he passed away, boards is a fragment of people. It's a strange thing to argue with. What is there to 'argue' when someone passes away? This is completely different. If people didn't notice any such outpouring then that's their own attentive problem.

NukaCola

cms88 wrote: »

But it's another sport. Why shouldn't they be aloud to decide?

As I've said Liam Miller actually played in Turners Cross so it's a much better chose for the game.

For all this talk about tax players money being used etc I read somewhere in the last few days when Tallaght Stadium was built it was about being used for GAA and they were told straight out no, so that argument doesn't stand up.

Where was this out poring when he actually passed away? I also read last night someone who wrote an article about him when he passed and very few took any notice. This thread as i've already pointed out is another example

Its absolutely their right to choose and they have. But they have let other sports and events take place in their stadiums, why not this one? The GAA pride themselves on community and integrity, I see very little of those traits on display for this decision.

As for tax, I never mentioned it and wont talk for other people that have. There was also plenty of out pouring when he passed away, just because people don't post here to state their shock and sadness should not take away from that fact.

cms88

NukaCola wrote: »

Its absolutely their right to choose and they have. But they have let other sports and events take place in their stadiums, why not this one? The GAA pride themselves on community and integrity, I see very little of those traits on display for this decision.

As for tax, I never mentioned it and wont talk for other people that have. There was also plenty of out pouring when he passed away, just because people don't post here to state their shock and sadness should not take away from that fact.

Again it's up to them what they do and don't want their own ground to be used for. I'm sure rugby, soccer etc clubs all over Ireland don't let events take place in their grounds charity or otherwise, so why is this any different?

titan18

cms88 wrote: »

Again it's up to them what they do and don't want their own ground to be used for. I'm sure rugby, soccer etc clubs all over Ireland don't let events take place in their grounds charity or otherwise, so why is this any different?

It's not really since the 30m was granted on the condition that it can be used by other sports. They can either allow that or pay back the 30m. There's no taking that and refusing everyone.

NukaCola

cms88 wrote: »

Again it's up to them what they do and don't want their own ground to be used for. I'm sure rugby, soccer etc clubs all over Ireland don't let events take place in their grounds charity or otherwise, so why is this any different?

It is up to them what they do with their ground. As it is any organisation as I already said. The discussion is on the decision the GAA made because they were asked about hosting it. If it was any other organisation the discussion would revolve around that organisation. People have a right to discuss it would you not agree?

cms88

titan18 wrote: »

It's not really since the 30m was granted on the condition that it can be used by other sports. They can either allow that or pay back the 30m. There's no taking that and refusing everyone.

Does it say they have to let every sport use it any time they want? As for refusing everyone who else have they refused?

This is the problem with modern Ireland, when people don't get their way they go off and sulk about it. As i've said before for months on end we had arguments about people having a chose etc rammed down our trouts, so why now were an organisation desires something we get this back lash?

As i've said there's probably more demand than what Turners Cross can hold, and like i said im sure its pretty easy to find out how people can donate themselves if they're really worried about how much it's going to make

cms88

NukaCola wrote: »

It is up to them what they do with their ground. As it is any organisation as I already said. The discussion is on the decision the GAA made because they were asked about hosting it. If it was any other organisation the discussion would revolve around that organisation. People have a right to discuss it would you not agree?

Yes they do. The same same way the GA have a right to not host something without people trowing their toys out of the pram when they don't get their way

titan18

cms88 wrote: »

Does it say they have to let every sport use it any time they want? As for refusing everyone who else have they refused?

This is the problem with modern Ireland, when people don't get their way they go off and sulk about it. As i've said before for months on end we had arguments about people having a chose etc rammed down our trouts, so why now were an organisation desires something we get this back lash?

As i've said there's probably more demand than what Turners Cross can hold, and like i said im sure its pretty easy to find out how people can donate themselves if they're really worried about how much it's going to make

Well, the ruling states that the facilities are open on a non-discriminatory and transparent basis to other sports.

Now, the decision seems to be we can't hold it as we're blocked from hosting any other sports events, which clearly contradicts the conditions imposed for the 30m being granted.

It's not like there's a GAA event on in Pairc Ui Chaoimh at the same time, which would be understandable why you'd say no.

Can anyone provide a good explanation of why the event was said no to without going against the conditions imposed on the 30m?