Israel attacks Syria

Obi_Wan_Kenobi

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Would you believe anything out of the Israelis..

Absolutely, a lot more than the dishonest lying MSM and the "Free Palestine" crowd.

smurgen

Gatling wrote: »

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

They are domestically producing modern fighter aircraft now Qaher F-313 stealth fighter jet and F35 fighter jet. I never said they beat the Israeli fighters in an air battle. They do have aircraft that can hit Israel targets.

They are producing stealth.

Hahahaha

Oh boy



Again they don't

Dude you're an armchair analyst,try not to sound too condescending,it's embarrassing.you are privy to no on the ground information.

Hande hoche!

Quite a few of the aircraft shown off by the Iranians are seemingly mock ups or tweaked airframes based on F5s. In fairness to their aeronautical industry they have kept F14s in air worthy conditions despite the embargoes. They also seem to have done a good job integrating Soviet, French and US designs in their system.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Obi_Wan_Kenobi wrote: »

Absolutely, a lot more than the dishonest lying MSM and the "Free Palestine" crowd.

Eh. The MSM is largely pro Israel. Left and right. Particularly in the US.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Gatling wrote: »

A few 60's and 70's era f4 phantoms and f14 tomcats and a few mig 29s
Vs
The latest.variants f15s ,f16s, with the latest weapons systems and avionics and electronic warfare systems ,

Let's see who wins

Jesus you really get excited by the US and Israel’s military power don’t you?

It’s a sad form of transferred nationalism.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Stealth is not new technology it two decades old. Iran is building stealth aircraft how good the planes are operationally who can say?

They still don't have stealth aircraft or anything close to it ,

Stealth is a mixture of technology and materials used to build aircraft ,
Unfortunately Iran doesn't have any stealth capabilities,

Gatling

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Is that you Jimmy

ArchXStanton

Obi_Wan_Kenobi wrote: »

Absolutely, a lot more than the dishonest lying MSM and the "Free Palestine" crowd.

Hows the weather in Tel Aviv?

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

They still don't have stealth aircraft or anything close to it ,

Stealth is a mixture of technology and materials used to build aircraft ,
Unfortunately Iran doesn't have any stealth capabilities,

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-16098562 Your information is out of date. Iran has stealth drones and released videos showing them flying around.

Cheerful Spring

Here is an Iranian Stealth drone flying around in 2014.

Barry Badrinath

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-16098562 Your information is out of date. Iran has stealth drones and released videos showing them flying around.

The Iranian drone which was engaged by the Israeli AH-64D was a "Saegheh". It was reverse engineered from the U.S drone which is linked in the article above and took 5 years to develop.

It is meant to be a surveillance drone but is under equipped for that role, however, it has been upgraded to be able to carry up to 4 explosives.

It is NOT in any way stealth technology. Sure it was identified by Israeli long range radar. They knew it was a drone, let it come closer then launched a hellfire missile at it once it entered Israeli territory.

It is NOT stealth technology.

Cheerful Spring

Barry Badrinath wrote: »

The Iranian drone which was engaged by the Israeli AH-64D was a "Saegheh". It was reverse engineered from the U.S drone which is linked in the article above and took 5 years to develop.

It is meant to be a surveillance drone but is under equipped for that role, however, it has been upgraded to be able to carry up to 4 explosives.

It is NOT in any way stealth technology. Sure it was identified by Israeli long range radar. They knew it was a drone, let it come closer then launched a hellfire missile at it once it entered Israeli territory.

It is NOT stealth technology.

Your information is wrong. US officials are on record the Iranians captured an American Stealth drone. Even Obama demanded the return of the RQ-170
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/iran-ignores-us-request-to-return-drone/

Iran has had 7 years to back engineer the technology. They had a stealth craft in 2011, they know how it works. All they have to do us build it.

ArchXStanton

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Your information is wrong. US officials are on record the Iranians captured an American Stealth drone. Even Obama demanded the return of the RQ-170
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/iran-ignores-us-request-to-return-drone/

They asked for it back lol....I suppose they didn't treat people to the same circus as when the ruskies shot down their U2 spy plane in Russian airspace,Krushchev played his cards close to his chest and let them make a show of themselves on the world stage before announcing they had captured the pilot alive

Cheerful Spring

ArchXStanton wrote: »

They asked for it back lol....I suppose they didn't treat people to the same circus as when the ruskies shot down their U2 spy plane in Russian airspace,Krushchev played his cards close to his chest and let them make a show of themselves on the world stage before announcing they had captured the pilot alive

Those drones likely cost a lot of money and losing a stealth drone is handing your enemies a priceless item. Don't be flying this over Iranian territory would not have lost it.

Barry Badrinath

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Your information is wrong. US officials are on record the Iranians captured an American Stealth drone. Even Obama demanded the return of the RQ-170
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/iran-ignores-us-request-to-return-drone/

Yes, I know all about that, it was lost by US troops operating under 'Enduring Freedom' in Afghanistan and Iran refused to give it back...naturally.

The Lockheed Martin manufactured RQ-170 was used as a spy drone. Its shaped like a stealth fighter and was used in a stealth capacity.

The Iranian version may look similar but it is by no means stealth technology.

My information is correct.

Stealth technology suggests that the equipment can be "invisible" to radar.

This drone was nowhere near "invisible" to Israeli radar. Dont get hung up on the word "stealth" here....its not the same as a Stealth bomber.

ArchXStanton

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Those drones likely cost a lot of money and losing a stealth drone is handing your enemies a priceless item. Don't be flying this over Iranian territory would not have lost it.

It's ok when the US does it...might makes right

Or Israel for that matter...

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Your information is wrong.

Iran has had 7 years to back engineer the technology. They had a stealth craft in 2011, they know how it works. All they have to do us build it.

Again your wrong ,it's not a stealth drone or anything like it ,

Iran does not have a stealth aircraft or drone .

Simples

Victor

Barry Badrinath wrote: »

My information is correct.

Perhaps. Other sources say otherwise. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/iranian-drone-penetrates-israeli-airspace-israel-responds-with-attacks-in-syria/ar-BBIXEQh?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

The drone was "an advanced, low-signature model Israel has never before captured," said Brig. Gen. Tomer Bar, second-in-command of Israel's air force.

The_Valeyard

Where can one buy these stealth drones, could be useful against my neighbour down the road when they have a house party

Gatling

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Where can one buy these stealth drones, could be useful against my neighbour down the road when they have a house party

You can pick up a flying wing drone relatively cheaply now , easy enough to fit HD action cams too

Barry Badrinath

Victor wrote: »

Perhaps. Other sources say otherwise. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/iranian-drone-penetrates-israeli-airspace-israel-responds-with-attacks-in-syria/ar-BBIXEQh?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

Not exactly.

The word "advanced" is in reference to its capability to carry a payload, i.e a weaponised drone. Plus, it just means Israel doesnt normally capture a drone...it usually targets drones with Patriot missiles, leaving no hope of revovery. This is usually when a drone "sneaks" up on them.

A weaponised drone by definition is not a stealth drone. The added weight, metrics and footprint of the drone reduces its ability to be "invisible" to radar systems.

This particular drone had no satellite communication or control system, a limited operational ceiling (cruising altitude) and was propeller driven from the rear.

All this together indicates that the drone was not on a reconaissance or "stealth" flight. Its too bulky, too slow and was immefiately detectible by radar and tracked for the duration of the flight. This meant the normal Israeli response of using a Patriot missile was not needed.

Why would Iran spend 7 years developing a stealth drone and on its first operational outing, lash 4 missiles to it? They have plenty of better performing drones to use for this task.

Putting it plainly again...its not stealth technology.

Victor

Barry Badrinath wrote: »

Not exactly.

The word "advanced" is in reference to its capability to carry a payload, i.e a weaponised drone. Plus, it just means Israel doesnt normally capture a drone...it usually targets drones with Patriot missiles, leaving no hope of revovery. This is usually when a drone "sneaks" up on them.

A weaponised drone by definition is not a stealth drone. The added weight, metrics and footprint of the drone reduces its ability to be "invisible" to radar systems.

This particular drone had no satellite communication or control system, a limited operational ceiling (cruising altitude) and was propeller driven from the rear.

All this together indicates that the drone was not on a reconaissance or "stealth" flight. Its too bulky, too slow and was immefiately detectible by radar and tracked for the duration of the flight. This meant the normal Israeli response of using a Patriot missile was not needed.

Why would Iran spend 7 years developing a stealth drone and on its first operational outing, lash 4 missiles to it? They have plenty of better performing drones to use for this task.

Putting it plainly again...its not stealth technology.

Which part of "low-signature" don't you understand?

Barry Badrinath

Victor wrote: »

Which part of "low-signature" don't you understand?

Really Victor?

Ok, a "low signature" weaponised drone that was tracked by radar from its launch site in Palmyra whose flight path travelled east to the Iraq border then west into Jordan and finally into northern Israel where the Israeli air force had an Apache waiting to intercept it.

Definately a stealth drone. Defo a 7 year reverse engineered innaugral stealth operation.

They better go back to the drawing board.

Gatling

Seems like Israel isn't finished in Syria .

"Israel's minister of intelligence says that by striking key Iranian sites in Syria, Israel has sent a clear message to Iran that it won't tolerate an Iranian military foothold on its doorstep. Israel Katz said on Sunday it will take the Iranians time to "digest, understand and ask how Israel knew how to hit those sites."

After shooting down an Iranian drone that infiltrated its airspace, Israel launched a widespread offensive on Saturday in Syria. The military says it hit four Iranian positions and eight Syrian sites, causing significant damage. Israel has recently issued several stern warnings about the increased Iranian involvement along its borders with Syria and Lebanon.

Israel also says it destroyed the Syrian military's main command and control bunker in its most devastating assault there in decades"

Cheerful Spring

Barry Badrinath wrote: »

Really Victor?

Ok, a "low signature" weaponised drone that was tracked by radar from its launch site in Palmyra whose flight path travelled east to the Iraq border then west into Jordan and finally into northern Israel where the Israeli air force had an Apache waiting to intercept it.

Definately a stealth drone. Defo a 7 year reverse engineered innaugral stealth operation.

They better go back to the drawing board.

The Iranian drone shot down by the Israeli Air Force early Saturday morning appears to have been a relatively new stealth model whose design was stolen from an American unmanned aerial vehicle that was captured by Iran in 2011, according to aviation analysts.

Brig. Gen. Tomer Bar, the Israeli Air Force’s second-in-command, said Saturday the Iranian drone was quite advanced and emulated Western technology

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

Again your wrong ,it's not a stealth drone or anything like it ,

Iran does not have a stealth aircraft or drone .

Simples

Your same analyst who said NK did not have a missile that could strike America. I told you they have this missile. Months later the people you listen to online are shown to be wrong again.

Iran has stealth aircraft and drones you need to stop watching fox news.

Barry Badrinath

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

It was captured over Eastern Iran the American drone in 2011.

Exactly what I said.

The drone was being used in Afghanistan...Irans neighbour to the east.

Soooo...the drone left western Afghanistan and landed in eastern Iran.

Cheerful Spring

Barry Badrinath wrote: »

Exactly what I said.

The drone was being used in Afghanistan...Irans neighbour to the east.

Soooo...the drone left western Afghanistan and landed in eastern Iran.

For me your post, read like Iran captured the drone in Afghanistan, I apologise.

Barry Badrinath

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

For me your post, read like Iran captured the drone in Afghanistan, I apologise.

Not at all, no need to apologise but it was actually YOU who stated that Iran had captured a US drone earlier in the thread.

Chrongen

Gatling wrote: »

A few 60's and 70's era f4 phantoms and f14 tomcats and a few mig 29s
Vs
The latest.variants f15s ,f16s, with the latest weapons systems and avionics and electronic warfare systems ,

Let's see who wins

Who won in Vietnam? The US had all manner of high-tech gadgetry versus peasants.

Who won in Iraq? Certainly not the US with their jets and drones and bombers and aircraft carriers and satellites. Same could be said for Afghanistan.

Who won in Lebanon in 2006?

Bragging about who would win based on who has the shiniest kit has been the blunder that keeps on giving.

Sun Tzu would be embarrassed at your ill-founded predictions.

Any military strategist will tell you that it isn't the damage you can inflict on your adversary but what you can endure that counts.

Chrongen

There will be no further Israeli attacks without effective response. Israel has chosen to de-escalate and that's the end of it. Russia has signalled that its forces co-located inside Syria will not act to Israel's advantage and because of this it's clear that there are now new "rules of engagement" and new "red lines".

Israel has requested that Russia mediate to stop any escalation. So effectively Israel's provocation has backfired and they will now back down, at least for the time being.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Iran has stealth aircraft and drones

No sorry your wrong .

Gatling

Chrongen wrote: »

There will be no further Israeli attacks without effective response.

Says who exactly ,

Chrongen

What I'm curious about is how the Israelis identified the alleged drone which allegedly violated Israeli airspace as "Iranian".

Normally a request is issued to an aircraft to identify themselves. How is this accomplished with a drone that has no pilot?

Chrongen

Gatling wrote: »

No sorry your wrong .

If Iran doesn't have drones as you have just stated then how come Israel are supposed to have shot one down on Saturday?

Gatling

Chrongen wrote: »

What I'm curious about is how the Israelis identified the alleged drone which allegedly violated Israeli airspace as "Iranian".

Normally a request is issued to an aircraft to identify themselves. How is this accomplished with a drone that has no pilot?

Simple they tracked it from launch ,
They also knew it was a drone used by iran ,
They also have various video footage of the said drone before and after being shot down by a helicopter

Chrongen

Gatling wrote: »

Simple they tracked it from launch ,
They also knew it was a drone used by iran ,
They also have various video footage of the said drone before and after being shot down by a helicopter

How exactly can a drone be identified as Iranian? I'm curious to know.

How was it tracked? What mechanism from Israel tracks an aircraft from takeoff in another country? Satellites? Radar? How deep into Syria does Israeli radar penetrate?

When some bloke in county Meath goes up in his helicpoter to fly for a round of golf in Donabate or the K-Club is he immediately tracked by British satelliites/radar?

How do they determine whether this drone was Iranian?

And in a previous post you stated that Iran doesn't have drones. Now you're stating that a drone "used" by Iran was tracked from takeoff in Syria? Seems very far-fetched what you are trying to postulate.

Gatling

Chrongen wrote: »

And in a previous post you stated that Iran doesn't have drones. Now you're stating that a drone "used" by Iran was tracked from takeoff in Syria? Seems very far-fetched what you are trying to postulate.

I have repeatedly stated Iran has No Stealth aircraft or stealth drones ,
Case in point Israel tracked the drone from take off before it entered Israel where is was shot down by a helicopter ,
Israel has very high quality and very active radars and other systems that can track from small to large aircraft and drones ,
They knew it wasn't a US or Syrian drone it's certainly not a Russian design ,

Next

Franz Von Peppercorn

Gatling wrote: »

Is that you Jimmy

No idea who Jimmy is so no.

Chrongen

Gatling wrote: »

I have repeatedly stated Iran has No Stealth aircraft or stealth drones ,
Case in point Israel tracked the drone from take off before it entered Israel where is was shot down by a helicopter ,
Israel has very high quality and very active radars and other systems that can track from small to large aircraft and drones ,
They knew it wasn't a US or Syrian drone it's certainly not a Russian design ,

Next

Can you explain how it was determined to be Iranian?
How exactly can you determine if a vehicle is Iranian purely from radar? You are stating that radar determined whose drone it was, are you not?

How many aerial vehicles takeoff and land all over Syria every day? Are they ALL tracked from takeoff by Israeli radar? Are they all identified immediately by the manufacturer? You seem to know a lot about the capabilities of radar and how it can determine exact specifications of any and every aircraft so I'm just asking how it can be determined to be Iranian or any other "nationality" from takeoff.


PS: "Next" ?

Gatling

Chrongen wrote: »

Can you explain how it was determined to be Iranian?

Who else would have a poor copy of a US drone in the region ,
Who else would produce a drone and claim it to be Stealth ,
And fail .

If it took off from a Russian base we know it would be russian,
This drone or model of a drone took off from an Iranian operated based inside Syria ,

So who else could own it .......


Answers on a post card

Chrongen

Gatling wrote: »

I have repeatedly stated Iran has No Stealth aircraft or stealth drones ,
Case in point Israel tracked the drone from take off before it entered Israel where is was shot down by a helicopter ,
Israel has very high quality and very active radars and other systems that can track from small to large aircraft and drones ,
They knew it wasn't a US or Syrian drone it's certainly not a Russian design ,

Next

How do you know exactly what military capabilities Iran possesses?

If they are so backward then why do they pose such a "threat"? In this post you've just maintained that they have an aeriial capability that would make Albania look like a superpower. So why the threat then if they are so ill-equipped and impotent?

Chrongen

Gatling wrote: »

Who else would have a poor copy of a US drone in the region ,
Who else would produce a drone and claim it to be Stealth ,
And fail .

If it took off from a Russian base we know it would be russian,
This drone or model of a drone took off from an Iranian operated based inside Syria ,

So who else could own it .......


Answers on a post card

You haven't answered any question with any manner of rationale but if you insist on the little "Next" and "answers on a postcard" comments then I'd say it's hardly worth discussing much with you.

Thanks for your insight.

Gatling

Chrongen wrote: »

You haven't answered any question with any manner of rationale but if you insist on the little "Next" and "answers on a postcard" comments then I'd say it's hardly worth discussing much with you.

Thanks for your insight.

Ahhhhhh I've answered all your questions perfect and simple to understand ,

Iran has no stealth aircraft or drones case and point proven in Israel .

So .

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

Who else would produce a drone and claim it to be Stealth ,
And fail .

Israel and United States officials are now claiming this was a Stealth Drone. Who are you blaming Iran for this leak? Iran claiming their drone was not shot down? The drone penetrated 4 to 5 miles into Isreal, meaning they likely responded late. Iran at that time could have videoed what they needed inside the border of Israel. You forgetting also the Iranians captured a stealth drone in 2011, how the Iranians find the stealth drone if the Iranian capabilities are awful?

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Israel and United States officials are now claiming this was a Drone.

Yeah a drone not stealth though ,

Nobody is claiming otherwise

Chrongen

So how does a drone be identified from takeoff?

Gatling was asked this question, a question he failed to answer with any sense other than his thoughts on military capabilities.

How can the identity of a drone be determined from takeoff?

Gatling

Chrongen wrote: »

So how does a drone be identified from takeoff?

Gatling was asked this question, a question he failed to answer with any sense other than his thoughts on military capabilities.

How can the identity of a drone be determined from takeoff?

It's really simple stuff ,

Or do I need to break out the Crayola's for a drawing

Here's a summary of how radar works:

Magnetron generates high-frequency radio waves.
Duplexer switches magnetron through to antenna.
Antenna acts as transmitter, sending narrow beam of radio waves through the air.
Radio waves hit enemy airplane and reflect back.
Antenna picks up reflected waves during a break between transmissions. Note that the same antenna acts as both transmitter and receiver, alternately sending out radio waves and receiving them.
Duplexer switches antenna through to receiver unit.
Computer in receiver unit processes reflected waves and draws them on a TV screen.
Enemy plane shows up on TV radar display with any other nearby targets

Victor

Gatling wrote: »

Who else would have a poor copy of a US drone in the region ,
Who else would produce a drone and claim it to be Stealth ,
And fail .

If it took off from a Russian base we know it would be russian,
This drone or model of a drone took off from an Iranian operated based inside Syria ,

So who else could own it .......

Syria, Hezbollah ...

Gatling

Victor wrote: »

Syria, Hezbollah ...

Syrians would go with off the shelf Russian drones ,
Hezbollah drones come from Iran ,the key to who was operating this particular drone lays in the location it took off from ,
Tiyas aka T4 near Palmyra which is operated and controlled by Iranian quds (revolutionary guards ) ,
Hezbollah has lost multiple drones in or close to Israel over the last few years , most small type drones for surveillance ,the last notable one was shot down by a patriot missile ,

From the recovered parts of the drone it doesn't look like the American sentenal drone that ended up in Iran , looks more like the wings off a predator type drones with wings Vs single wedge blended fuselage design (could be wrong) .