Israel attacks Syria

Chrongen

Gatling wrote: »

It's really simple stuff ,

Or do I need to break out the Crayola's for a drawing

Here's a summary of how radar works:

Magnetron generates high-frequency radio waves.
Duplexer switches magnetron through to antenna.
Antenna acts as transmitter, sending narrow beam of radio waves through the air.
Radio waves hit enemy airplane and reflect back.
Antenna picks up reflected waves during a break between transmissions. Note that the same antenna acts as both transmitter and receiver, alternately sending out radio waves and receiving them.
Duplexer switches antenna through to receiver unit.
Computer in receiver unit processes reflected waves and draws them on a TV screen.
Enemy plane shows up on TV radar display with any other nearby targets

I know basically how radar works. I'm an engineer. All you seem to do is blab like you are an expert in weapons and radar and comms and all manner of stuff when all you do is cut and paste sh1t and try to pawn it off as your own knowledge.

Was this your source:

http://www.aabithub.com/radar-woring/

Your cut and paste job explains how an image is viewed via radar. It doesn't explain how an image can be identified as Iranian or any other nationality for that matter.

I asked this question and you petulantly dismissed it as "simples" or some other kiddy comment. You avoid questions and then claim you answered them.

If that's your game then go play by yourself.

muppetshow1451

Chrongen wrote: »

I know basically how radar works. I'm an engineer. All you seem to do is blab like you are an expert in weapons and radar and comms and all manner of stuff when all you do is cut and paste sh1t and try to pawn it off as your own knowledge.

Was this your source:

http://www.aabithub.com/radar-woring/

Your cut and paste job explains how an image is viewed via radar. It doesn't explain how an image can be identified as Iranian or any other nationality for that matter.

I asked this question and you petulantly dismissed it as "simples" or some other kiddy comment. You avoid questions and then claim you answered them.

If that's your game then go play by yourself.

It depends on radar software,friend or foe systems,radar fire control systems.
And radar cross section.

Barry Badrinath

Chrongen wrote: »

What I'm curious about is how the Israelis identified the alleged drone which allegedly violated Israeli airspace as "Iranian"

Chrongen wrote: »

If Iran doesn't have drones as you have just stated then how come Israel are supposed to have shot one down on Saturday?

Chrongen wrote: »

How exactly can a drone be identified as Iranian? I'm curious to know.

How was it tracked? What mechanism from Israel tracks an aircraft from takeoff in another country? Satellites? Radar? How deep into Syria does Israeli radar penetrate?

How do they determine whether this drone was Iranian?

Chrongen wrote: »

Can you explain how it was determined to be Iranian?
How exactly can you determine if a vehicle is Iranian purely from radar? You are stating that radar determined whose drone it was, are you not?

How many aerial vehicles takeoff and land all over Syria every day? Are they ALL tracked from takeoff by Israeli radar? Are they all identified immediately by the manufacturer? You seem to know a lot about the capabilities of radar and how it can determine exact specifications of any and every aircraft so I'm just asking how it can be determined to be Iranian or any other "nationality" from takeoff

Chrongen wrote: »

How do you know exactly what military capabilities Iran possesses?

Chrongen wrote: »

So how does a drone be identified from takeoff? How can the identity of a drone be determined from takeoff?

Jaysis you are a very demanding individual. I was going to give you a reasoned explaination but I have a feeling you only want hear from the Israeli radar operator that was at the screen that day.

Chrongen

Barry Badrinath wrote: »

Jaysis you are a very demanding individual. I was going to give you a reasoned explaination but I have a feeling you only want hear from the Israeli radar operator that was at the screen that day.

Well from what I understand and what I have read you can only determine the manufacturer of an aircraft if it has a transponder. Which begs the question why would a stealth drone have a transpnder to identify itself?

ohnonotgmail

Gatling wrote: »

Syrians would go with off the shelf Russian drones ,
Hezbollah drones come from Iran ,the key to who was operating this particular drone lays in the location it took off from ,
Tiyas aka T4 near Palmyra which is operated and controlled by Iranian quds (revolutionary guards ) ,
Hezbollah has lost multiple drones in or close to Israel over the last few years , most small type drones for surveillance ,the last notable one was shot down by a patriot missile ,

From the recovered parts of the drone it doesn't look like the American sentenal drone that ended up in Iran , looks more like the wings off a predator type drones with wings Vs single wedge blended fuselage design (could be wrong) .

a $2M missile to take out a small drone? what a ridiculous waste of money.

ohnonotgmail

Chrongen wrote: »

Well from what I understand and what I have read you can only determine the manufacturer of an aircraft if it has a transponder. Which begs the question why would a stealth drone have a transpnder to identify itself?

This has been explained to you already. If you know where it took off from you can extrapolate who owns it. And there is nothing to suggest it was a "stealth" drone unless you are using a very loose definition of the word stealth.

Gatling

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

a $2M missile to take out a small drone? what a ridiculous waste of money.

It depends on the missile used ,I know they previously used a patriot missile , but it depends on what the Apache was carrying at the time it could have been any number of homegrown missiles ,
An American Apache would have been fitted with an expensive hellfire .

ohnonotgmail

Gatling wrote: »

It depends on the missile used ,I know they previously used a patriot missile , but it depends on what the Apache was carrying at the time it could have been any number of homegrown missiles ,
An American Apache would have been fitted with an expensive hellfire .

so only $100,000 a pop then. fill the skies with cheap drones and bankrupt your enemy.

Gatling

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so only $100,000 a pop then. fill the skies with cheap drones and bankrupt your enemy.

It would actually work to a degree ,
Hence why American and Chinese military planners are working on swarms of drones to attack targets to overwhelm defenses.

My personal choice would have been the Apache's 25mm chain gun it would have more beenn than sufficient to shoot it down

muppetshow1451

Gatling wrote: »

It would actually work to a degree ,
Hence why American and Chinese military planners are working on swarms of drones to attack targets to overwhelm defenses

Americans also have lasers for drone attacks and Russia is working on a microwave gun for drones,and i am not sure if its operational yet,but drone attacks in Syria have showed very little success against the russians.

Gatling

muppetshow1451 wrote: »

but drone attacks in Syria have showed very little success against the russians.

They actually faced the first swarm attack fairly recently , they didn't see it coming and only a lack of real firepower on the drones prevented a real embarrassment for russian forces in Syria.
Other attacks used off the shelf DJI type drones using improvised explosives mainly grenade's ,

Now take a drone capable of carrying a high explosive weapon that would be a real danger to ground forces

Cheerful Spring

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

This has been explained to you already. If you know where it took off from you can extrapolate who owns it. And there is nothing to suggest it was a "stealth" drone unless you are using a very loose definition of the word stealth.

Lt. Col. Jonathan Conricus, a spokesman for Israel’s military, and Yuval Steinitz, a minister in Israel’s security cabinet, said the craft was a copy of a U.S. RQ-170 Sentinel spy drone, which Iran claims to have reverse-engineered.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/israel-confirms-downed-jet-was-hit-by-syrian-antiaircraft-fire/2018/02/11/bd42a0b2-0f13-11e8-8ea1-c1d91fcec3fe_story.html?utm_term=.f80c6a5b5130

US and Isreal and Aviation officials confirmed this drone was highly advanced and looked it was a back-engineered drone of RQ-170. RQ-170 is special for it stealth.

I think you know what the word copy means right?

Cheerful Spring

MOSCOW — Four Russian nationals, and perhaps dozens more, were killed in fighting between pro-government forces in eastern Syria and members of the United States-led coalition fighting the Islamic State, according to Russian and Syrian officials.

A Syrian military officer said that about 100 Syrian soldiers had been killed in the fighting on Feb. 7 and 8, but news about Russian casualties has dribbled out only slowly, through Russian news organizations and social media.

Much about the attack and the associated casualties has been obscured in the fog of war. For reasons that remain unclear, Syrian government troops and some Russian nationals appear to have attacked a coalition position, near Al Tabiyeh, Syria.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/13/world/europe/russia-syria-dead.html

If this is real US forces just killed dozens of Russian soldiers or mercenaries in Syria. I have heard online the number could be over 100 to 200.

Was there a cover-up till now to avoid escalation? This could explain why the Iranian drone was given the go-ahead to fly over Isreal.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I think you know what the word copy means right?

The important part of the article

Iranian leaders often exaggerate the country’s military prowess.

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

The important part of the article

Iranian leaders often exaggerate the country’s military prowess.

Why do you continue to deny this? Isreal said the drone was a copy of the Stealth drone that was captured in 2011. You need to stop talking about Iran. They're denying the lost a drone, never mind losing a drone with stealth.

Chrongen

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

This has been explained to you already. If you know where it took off from you can extrapolate who owns it. And there is nothing to suggest it was a "stealth" drone unless you are using a very loose definition of the word stealth.

Really? Well unless it took off from Iran then how on Earth does one determine if it was Iranian? Explain that to me. Maybe you have some really obvious insight that I am just continuing to miss.

My next question is....if it took off from Syria and it's manufacturer was so easily defineable then it's safe to assume that am aircraft taking of from anywhere in the world can be identified straightaway by its manufacturer/"nationality", no?

How do you determine who owns it simply by its point of takeoff?

Someone originally that a drone's owner can be determined by a radar signature and now your story is drifting from that stating that it's owner can be determined by the takeoff source.

Which is it?

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Why do you continue to deny this? Isreal said the drone was a copy of the Stealth drone that was captured in 2011. You need to stop talking about Iran. They're denying the lost a drone, never mind losing a drone with stealth.

A copy that wasn't stealth which means ,they copied a design that's been around 70+ years and that's all ,

Stealth isn't just a wing shape ,

Might be time just to move on.

In China you can buy a copy of top of the range phone to a rolls Royce ,

But neither are a top of the range phone or rolls Royce .

Barry Badrinath

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Why do you continue to deny this? Isreal said the drone was a copy of the Stealth drone that was captured in 2011. You need to stop talking about Iran. They're denying the lost a drone, never mind losing a drone with stealth.

Israels regional agenda is to deny Iran any footprint in Syria, especially in the southern region (Quneitra, Daraa, Damascus, As Suweyda).

Israel have been pushing for a 50km buffer zone extending east from the Golan Heights, to keep Iranian influence at a distance.

The fall of ISIS in Abu Kamal opened up a direct path from Iran to Syria, threatening to extend Iran's regional influence.

Anything that approaches Israel will be blamed on Iran, anyt Syrian regime victories near the Israeli border will be supported and orchastrated by Iran.

Israel will use any reason to blame Iran for everything, this legitimises Israels concerns. The stating ("confirming") that Iran has developed steath technology from a captured drone and is "using" it against Israel gives them a huge "political chit" to get the buffer zone created in their favour.

Your point about "stop talking about Iran"...sure thats the core subject.

Chrongen

Gatling wrote: »

They actually faced the first swarm attack fairly recently , they didn't see it coming and only a lack of real firepower on the drones prevented a real embarrassment for russian forces in Syria.
Other attacks used off the shelf DJI type drones using improvised explosives mainly grenade's ,

Now take a drone capable of carrying a high explosive weapon that would be a real danger to ground forces

Drones carrying "grenades"?

What would be the purpose of this when a mobile mortars or artillery would do the same thing? Who would tie a grenade to an off the shelf drone that has a range of maybe 5 kilometres and a flight/battery life of 25 minutes?

Why would anyone do that?

Improvised explosives on a drone? Why? That makes ZERO sense.

Gatling

Chrongen wrote: »

Drones carrying "grenades"?

What would be the purpose of this when a mobile mortars or artillery would do the same thing? Who would tie a grenade to an off the shelf drone that has a range of maybe 5 kilometres and a flight/battery life of 25 minutes?

Why would anyone do that?

Improvised explosives on a drone? Why? That makes ZERO sense.

Simple ,cheap , affordable ,no development costs and no great loss when they get shot down or lost ,
Needs very little training and very little risk to the operator's

Chrongen

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

MOSCOW — Four Russian nationals, and perhaps dozens more, were killed in fighting between pro-government forces in eastern Syria and members of the United States-led coalition fighting the Islamic State, according to Russian and Syrian officials.

A Syrian military officer said that about 100 Syrian soldiers had been killed in the fighting on Feb. 7 and 8, but news about Russian casualties has dribbled out only slowly, through Russian news organizations and social media.

Much about the attack and the associated casualties has been obscured in the fog of war. For reasons that remain unclear, Syrian government troops and some Russian nationals appear to have attacked a coalition position, near Al Tabiyeh, Syria.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/13/world/europe/russia-syria-dead.html

If this is real US forces just killed dozens of Russian soldiers or mercenaries in Syria. I have heard online the number could be over 100 to 200.

Was there a cover-up till now to avoid escalation? This could explain why the Iranian drone was given the go-ahead to fly over Isreal.

Or a fabrication.

Chrongen

Gatling wrote: »

A copy that wasn't stealth which means ,they copied a design that's been around 70+ years and that's all ,

Stealth isn't just a wing shape ,

Might be time just to move on.

In China you can buy a copy of top of the range phone to a rolls Royce ,

But neither are a top of the range phone or rolls Royce .

70+ years?

What have they copied, a German doodlebug?

Gatling

Chrongen wrote: »

70+ years?

What have they copied, a German doodlebug?

A flying wing,

What did you say you did again

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

A copy that wasn't stealth which means ,they copied a design that's been around 70+ years and that's all ,

Stealth isn't just a wing shape ,

Might be time just to move on.

In China you can buy a copy of top of the range phone to a rolls Royce ,

But neither are a top of the range phone or rolls Royce .

Please stop. Israel said it was a copy of the Stealth drone RQ-170. They specifically mention the RQ170. Iran has numerous drones that are not stealth, yet Isreal military said it was back-engineered RQ-170.

Reported by the Israeli press.
The Iranian drone shot down by the Israeli Air Force early Saturday morning appears to have been a relatively new stealth model whose design was stolen from an American unmanned aerial vehicle that was captured by Iran in 2011, according to aviation analysts.

Gatling I think aviation analysts, Isreal military, US officials even media are more informed about this topic than you?


Anyway the news out today of Russian mercenaries got killed by US forces, is interesting. There something happening behind the scenes the public not privy to.

Two to three now weeks we have a downing of Russian fighter jet ( probably downed by US weapons. Killing of Russians when Syria and Hezbollah and the US are fighting ( dangerous escalation) this probably greatest loss of life for the Russian state since the cold war. Iran sending a stealth drone to Israel to spy. Russians open up and shot down the Isreali jet. This scary stuff I wonder how they handling this behind the scenes at the White House and Kremlin?

Chrongen

Gatling wrote: »

Simple ,cheap , affordable ,no development costs and no great loss when they get shot down or lost ,
Needs very little training and very little risk to the operator's

We're not talking about dropping a mobile phone or a bag of heroin a few hundred feet over the wall into Mountjoy, here.

What possible military advantage would a bloody toy drone have carrying a grenade that couldn't be accomplished with a guy with a mortar?

Are you serious?

Ridiculous, and uselaess. So your drone hovers over a "target", you have spent time trying to have the thing pull the pin on a grenade and then drop it. Are you living in the real world?

So you would favour this retarded method of attacking a target from maybe 5 miles away with absolutely zero chance of any success other than perhaps in the mind of M in Bond movies?

nacho libre

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Why do you continue to deny this? Isreal said the drone was a copy of the Stealth drone that was captured in 2011. You need to stop talking about Iran. They're denying the lost a drone, never mind losing a drone with stealth.

The Iranian do exaggerate their capabilities, and could well be lying in this case, but Gatling will be quicker to be suspicious of an Iranian and Russian narrative, than an Amerian or Israeli one. An impartial observer would be suspicious of them all.

Roger Hassenforder

Chrongen wrote: »

Drones carrying "grenades"?

What would be the purpose of this when a mobile mortars or artillery would do the same thing? Who would tie a grenade to an off the shelf drone that has a range of maybe 5 kilometres and a flight/battery life of 25 minutes?

Why would anyone do that?

Improvised explosives on a drone? Why? That makes ZERO sense.

Have you seen a DJI Mavic Pro?
You can literally collapse it up and fit it in your pocket.
(Granted they wouldnt carry much...but...)
Take something a bit stronger and stick some c4 on it, and fly it in the window of a building , down stairs etc.. Ultimate in portable smart bomb for relatively peanuts. Theres also the reconnaissance bonus of them.
Aussies are already using them to drop inflatables to swimmers.
They're changing warfare.

Cheerful Spring

Chrongen wrote: »

Or a fabrication.

Russia has lost a fighter pilot and according to reports as many as 100 Russian mercenaries got killed 5 days ago. Iran sending is more advanced stealth drone to Israel kind of makes sense now. Iran would have to notify the Russians beforehand of this operation.

Barry Badrinath

Chrongen wrote: »

Really? Well unless it took off from Iran then how on Earth does one determine if it was Iranian? Explain that to me. Maybe you have some really obvious insight that I am just continuing to miss.

My next question is....if it took off from Syria and it's manufacturer was so easily defineable then it's safe to assume that am aircraft taking of from anywhere in the world can be identified straightaway by its manufacturer/"nationality", no?

How do you determine who owns it simply by its point of takeoff?

Someone originally that a drone's owner can be determined by a radar signature and now your story is drifting from that stating that it's owner can be determined by the takeoff source.

Which is it?

This all seems to be out of your grasp. Its not a singular event that led to it being labelled as an Iranian drone, its a multitude of things, when put together and an 7assesment is formed.

Firstly, you need to accept that Israel is quite adept at designing and manufacturing drones. Their miltary train other militaries on how to operate drones. They are experts in this field.

Secondly, Israel utilises various sophisticated air defence systems, the Iron Dome, Davids Sling and the Arrow. These systems are designed to detect, track, identify, predict trajectory and intercept aircraft (including drones) and ballistic missiles.

Now, lets specifically talk about the Iron Dome which is deployed in various parts of Israel. The Multi-Mission Radar is the fancy bit of tech that can detect aircraft or missile launches up to a range of 470km away. Now, Haifa to Palmyra is only 180km away as the crow flys and well within range.

1. Israel have the technology to detect, track, identify aircraft and missiles up to 470km away.
2. Palmyra is 180km away.
3. It is widely known that Russia, Syrian, Iranian and Hezbollah forces are stationed and use Palymra T4 Airbase.
4. If something is launched from there, it belongs to one of the four above.
5. Deduction time for the Israelis. Is it Hezbollah? Unlikely, Lebanon is too fragile for Hezbollah to be risking an invasion over a drone. Is it Syria? No, they have nothing to gain by sending a drone towards Israel. Is it Russia, maybe, but again theres no motivation to do so but it cant be discounted.

Who is left?...Iran. Yes, Israel is threatened by Iran for many reasons. Iran is the most likely of the four actors to launch a surveillance drone.

What do Israel do? They do nothing until the drones mission becomes clear. Israel dont launch their usual Patriot missile to blow it up. They wait until it gets closer until they can get video confirmation of the drone. They get it and take it out. Then report it as being Iranian as it suits their agenda. Who really knows if it is actually Iranian or not....none of us anyway.

Either way, Israel are using it for political points to demonstrate that they are a target for Iran and Irans influence must be stopped and Iranian presence in Syria must be kept at a distance from Israel.

The timeline also correlates to the 39th anniversary of Iran's Islamic Revolution. It is plausable that the drone surveillance footage would have been shown as a PR / morale boost for Iran. As in, "look at our regional footprint, we can get to the doorstep of Israel and travel the length of the US backed Jordan border without confrontation...we own the Middle East".

Basically, it comes down to 3 different things.

1. Prior battlefield intelligence.
2. Deduction and probability.
3. Political and military agenda.

I know this is not the solid answer you wanted but its not just about immediately identiying a blip on a screen.

ohnonotgmail

Chrongen wrote: »

Really? Well unless it took off from Iran then how on Earth does one determine if it was Iranian? Explain that to me. Maybe you have some really obvious insight that I am just continuing to miss.

My next question is....if it took off from Syria and it's manufacturer was so easily defineable then it's safe to assume that am aircraft taking of from anywhere in the world can be identified straightaway by its manufacturer/"nationality", no?

How do you determine who owns it simply by its point of takeoff?

Someone originally that a drone's owner can be determined by a radar signature and now your story is drifting from that stating that it's owner can be determined by the takeoff source.

Which is it?

you are just determined to be as obtuse as possible. best of luck with that.

Cheerful Spring

nacho libre wrote: »

The Iranian do exaggerate their capabilities, and could well be lying in this case, but Gatling will be quicker to be suspicious of an Iranian and Russian narrative, than an Amerian or Israeli one. An impartial observer would be suspicious of them all.

The problem with that analysis in Iran not claiming they send a Stealth drone to Israel. Israelis and American officials said it.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Please stop. Israel said it was a copy of the Stealth drone RQ-170.

Gatling I think aviation analysts, Isreal military, US officials

Russians open up and shot down the Isreali jet. This scary stuff I wonder how they handling this behind the scenes at the White House and Kremlin?

All agree it's a copy of an American design ,

It's not stealth or anything like it ,

Otherwise Israel would never have been able to track it from take off ,

And all russian military casualties and deaths are classified information under law in Russia and have been for a number of years ,


Russia won't shoot down any Israeli aircraft the consequences would be dire for their forces in Syria

Barry Badrinath

Chrongen wrote: »

Drones carrying "grenades"?

What would be the purpose of this when a mobile mortars or artillery would do the same thing? Who would tie a grenade to an off the shelf drone that has a range of maybe 5 kilometres and a flight/battery life of 25 minutes?

Why would anyone do that?

Improvised explosives on a drone? Why? That makes ZERO sense.

Im sorry but are you on a wind up now?

Improvised weaponised drones are much cheaper and portable than mortars or light artillery. It enables infantry troops, fighting unconventional and urban warfare to have an ace in the sleeve.

With mortars and artillery you need sufficient logistics, training and supply. Its not always possible to have, especially if you are part of a local tribe who is fighting in a conflict that it never asked for.

Not all groups in Syria have formal military training or support. Thats why these "DIY" tactics are adopted.

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

All agree it's a copy of an American design ,

It's not stealth or anything like it ,

Otherwise Israel would never have been able to track it from take off ,

And all russian military casualties and deaths are classified information under law in Russia and have been for a number of years ,


Russia won't shoot down any Israeli aircraft the consequences would be dire for their forces in Syria

How the Iranians track the R-170 Stealth drone in 2011 and capture it? Did the Iranians track it from Afghanistan, and how they know it was even there? On the ground intelligence ever hear of that? Could Isreali spies penetrate the groups they are fighting and got information about the drone flight and where it would be? Maybe there is a new weapon platform that can detect a Stealth drone and Israelis have it?

We disagree who fired the missiles that brought down the jet. What we do know is missiles are Russian made and missiles allegedly got fired from Khmeimim Air Base. This base jointly shared by the Syrians but Russian controlled. So it highly unlikely the Syrian engaged and the Russians would not know about this?

Regarding the Russian deaths. This NY times report they are going to check their sources are correct before publishing a story.

ohnonotgmail

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

How the Iranians track the R-170 Stealth drone in 2011 and capture it? Did the Iranians track it from Afghanistan, and how they know it was even there? On the ground intelligence ever hear of that? Could Isreali spies penetrate the groups they are fighting and got about the drone flight and where it would be? Maybe there is a new weapon platform that can detect a Stealth drone and Israelis have it?

We disagree who fired the missiles that brought down the jet. What we do know is missiles are Russian made and missiles allegedly got fired from Khmeimim Air Base. This base jointly d by the Syrians but Russian controlled. So it highly unlikely the Syrian engaged and the Russians would not know about this?

Regarding the Russian deaths. This NY times report they are going to check their sources are correct before publishing a story.

The design lacks several elements common to stealth engineering such as zig-zag edged landing gear doors and sharp leading edges, and the exhaust is not shielded by the wing

it doesn't sound terribly stealthy.

Cheerful Spring

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

it doesn't sound terribly stealthy.

Can I have the source for this quote?

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Regarding the Russian deaths. This NY times report they are going to check their sources are correct before publishing a story.

Putin passed a laws to hide military casualties overseas including the several thousand they lost in Ukraine where they had secret funerals for russian soldiers and tell the families their Sons and husband's are on a secret training mission in Siberia ,
The first soldier killed in combat in Syria in Russian uniform was explained away as a suiscide ,
Anything gets out they will claim they are not soldiers but paid Mercenaries ,

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

Putin passed a laws to hide military casualties overseas including the several thousand they lost in Ukraine where they had secret funerals for russian soldiers and tell the families their Sons and husband's are on a secret training mission in Siberia ,
The first soldier killed in combat in Syria in Russian uniform was explained away as a suiscide ,
Anything gets out they will claim they are not soldiers but paid Mercenaries ,

I don't disagree with this. Americans are doing the same thing, maybe not as secretive.

nacho libre

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The problem with that analysis in Iran not claiming they send a Stealth drone to Israel. Israelis and American officials said it.

If it was a stealth aircraft, then the Israelis would not have been able to detect it. Unless they have developed technology that can actually now detect supposedly stealth aircraft? Is this what you are getting at?

ohnonotgmail

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Can I have the source for this quote?

whats the point? You will just ignore it as you usually do.

Cheerful Spring

nacho libre wrote: »

If it was a stealth aircraft, then the Israelis would not have been able to detect it. Unless they have developed technology that can actually now detect supposedly stealth aircraft? Is this what you are getting at?

Iranians captured a stealth drone in 2011. What would stop the Israelis from doing the same thing in 2018?

nacho libre

Gatling wrote: »

d in combat in Syria in Russian uniform was explained away as a suiscide ,
Anything gets out they will claim they are not soldiers but paid Mercenaries ,

Of course because it helps him avoid looking weak, which would destroy his macho image, because if he acknowledges that a 100 - 200 Russian soliders were killed by the American Army the pressure is on to strike back, there by risking an even greater escalation from the other side.

It all just shows the notion of the menacing Russian bear, that has designs on invading all his neighbours, as hysterical propaganda. The last thing Vladmir Putin wants is a direct confrontation with the Americans.

Cheerful Spring

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

whats the point? You will just ignore it as you usually do.

If you found a quote that will show the Iranian drone was not stealth post the source.

ohnonotgmail

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

If you found a quote that will show the Iranian drone was not stealth post the source.

I'll happily pm it to anybody who is generally interested.

nacho libre

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Iranians captured a stealth drone in 2011. What would stop the Israelis from doing the same thing in 2018?

I thought that drone crashed due to a malfunction- maybe though that was a lie from Gatling's friends:D. If it was indeed detected by the Iranians and brought down, then your assertion could well be correct.

Gringo180

nacho libre wrote: »

Of course because it helps him avoid looking weak, which would destry his macho image, because if he acknowledges that a 100 - 200 Russian soliders were killed by the American Army the pressure is on to strike back, there by risking an even greater escalation from the other side.

It all just shows the notion of the menacing Russian bear that has designs on invading all his neighbours as hysterical propaganda. The last thing Vladmir Putin wants is a direct confrontation with the Americans.

But what would NATO do without all that hysterical propaganda? They need a bad guy to continue surrounding Russia.

Gringo180

nacho libre wrote: »

I thought that drone crashed due to a malfunction- maybe though that was a lie from Gatling's friends:D. If it was indeed detected by the Iranians and brought down, then your assertion could well be correct.

The Iranians safely landed the drone. If it was shot down it would of been totally destroyed so why would the Americans request it to be returned to them.

Gatling

Gringo180 wrote: »

But what would NATO do without all that hysterical propaganda? They need a bad guy to continue surrounding Russia.

But there not unfortunately

Cheerful Spring

nacho libre wrote: »

I thought that drone crashed due to a malfunction- maybe though that was a lie from Gatling's friends:D. If it was indeed detected by the Iranians and brought down, then your assertion could well be correct.

Highly unlikely the Iranians captured it intact. A drone falling from the sky would have smashed into different pieces. Stealth only means undetectable to radar it can be spotted in the air still and even heard. If all we know the Isreali helicopter spotted it on a routine mission and opened fire on it?

Gringo180

Gatling wrote: »

But there not unfortunately

Ah yeah shure its only 5 NATO members that share a border with Russia.