Pubs Closing Down Rural Ireland

El Weirdo

Staplor wrote: »

... So they don't bother cleaning the lines from the keg...

This is nonsense. Guinness and Heineken clean the lines for their products themselves, and they have done so for ages now.

whisky_galore

Pubs are closing down in cities, let alone rural Ireland.
You have to have something to attract people other than drink; be that food, live music, film shows or gimmicks/giveaways. Compete or close down.

The days of the pub that did nothing other than drink and stale crisps are numbered.

VinLieger

whisky_galore wrote: »

Pubs are closing down in cities, let alone rural Ireland.
You have to have something to attract people other than drink; be that food, live music, film shows or gimmicks/giveaways. Compete or close down.

The days of the pub that did nothing other than drink and stale crisps are numbered.

Yet pub owners still refuse to accept that which is why they lobbied so hard for minimum unit pricing

Agricola

Rural Ireland has far too many pubs in general. I'd have some sympathy where a tiny village had one pub which was closing up but the reality is every blink and you'd miss it little crossroads in the country has 3 or 4 pubs scraping by. Places where'd you be hard pressed to buy bread and milk have any amount of alcohol for sale. It's ridiculous and we don't see it because it's ingrained in our national identity.

Plenty of other cultures around the world get on fine without having a dozen pubs within 3 Sq miles of everyone's house. We'll manage.

blue note

Noveight wrote: »

In my own rural area you could get stuck in to the GAA, a walking/jogging club, dance lessons, weight classes, music lessons, genealogy workshop or the Tidy Towns. I think they even had painting classes going for a while. Each of the above take place at least once a week in the village and are relatively inexpensive if not cost free. Of course not every rural area would have such a decent variety but cheaper, healthier alternatives to the pub do indeed exist. Are they more enjoyable? Depends what you're into I suppose, sometimes all I'd want after the day is a quiet pint and a bag of Taytos by the fire.

Do you actually think that the list you've given is a realistic alternative to the pub for the people most affected by their closures or their inaccessibility due to the drink driving laws? The people that are most commonly affected by this change are older men - retired men living in the country and older farmers and the like.

Of your list - what does getting stuck into the GAA mean? They're hardly going to start playing at their age. And if they haven't been involved up to now they're probably not going to be too sought after for training teams. So you're left with committee work? Not everyone's idea of fun.

Walking / jogging clubs are nice, but again you're talking about a lot of elderly people or farmers who need the daylight hours for work. And for elderly people, a walking club might not be suitable.

Dance / weight classes - of the people most affected these would hardly be used. Same for genealogy and music classes. The tidy towns is something that doesn't sound fun to a lot of people too.

Then of course, they have to find activities that they're friends are also interested in. It's no use if you're the only one from your social group taking these things up, you're losing your friends if that's the case.

I'm not trying to be overly negative and as I say overall I think the pub culture dying out is a good thing. But I do think there are human casualties of it and pretending that activities such as the ones you've mentioned are adequate to help these people adapt is at best naïve. I think it's a problem that society is burying their head in the sand about while these people die off.

Chrongen

whisky_galore wrote: »

Pubs are closing down in cities, let alone rural Ireland.
You have to have something to attract people other than drink; be that food, live music, film shows or gimmicks/giveaways. Compete or close down.

The days of the pub that did nothing other than drink and stale crisps are numbered.

I would disagree. There are loads of pubs in Dublin that are just as you have described. Handful of taps, Manhattan salted peanuts on a piece of cardboard by the till and the decor hasn't changed in 1000 years. They are doing fine. They aren't competing. They have their regulars and that's that. There's scores of thee pubs, McNeils, Board Head, Nealons, Lord Edward, Brogans', the list goes on and on. These places don't offer gimmicks or gastro grub or 100 lousy craft ales on draught. McNeils has a bit of a trad session now and then and boars' head does pub grub. Whopee.

Chrongen

I'd say there are multiple reasons why country pubs are closing. Tougher drink-driving laws and responses discourage a lot of people from "chancing it". This is obviously a good thing but in reality have the tighter controls resulted in a reduction in road accidents in the rural areas?
Also the smoking ban probably had a detrimental effect. A lot of these pubs were frequented by oul lads who would have a few pints and a few smokes. If he has to stand outside now he might as well not bother going.

Also back in the day you had Rte1 and Rte2 in the bog. There was nothing on telly half the time so going to the pub had some entertainment value. Now houses in the farthest flung areas of Kerry, Mayo or Donegal have satellite/cable tv 24/7 as well as internet.

buried

Yeah the internet and the entertainment can be got from being connected is a big factor. Watch now in a few years the dangers of the internet will be ramped up to the max like the health dangers of having 3 or 4 cans of beer at home

hurler32

Up or Down the Rural Pub was a lifeline for many in terms of interacting with other members of their community and was a social outlet that helped many mentally from isolation.....
Now we have the Elderly isolated and a high risk of burglary down on top of it....the young seem to be happy with their 2000 alleged friends on facebook looking at their phone 24/7 rather than have a conversation with their neighbour.....

blue note

enricoh wrote: »

"Pubs closing down in a dramatic sign of progress in Irish society. Great news indeed."

Really? People are just drinking at home instead nowadays. I think it's pretty grim sitting at home half watching TV n flicking through Facebook, boards etc while drinking.
Plus people are drinking more at home as well, if a couple had 60 quid to spend on a Saturday night, that'll get them 10 drinks n a taxi home. No big deal.60 quid in Tesco's gets a bottle of vodka and a slab of cans.

The alcohol consumption stats in the country are way down on where they were 10 years ago. It's not the case that people are just drinking at home instead. Overall we're drinking considerably less.

Billy86

enricoh wrote: »

Plus people are drinking more at home as well, if a couple had 60 quid to spend on a Saturday night, that'll get them 10 drinks n a taxi home. No big deal.60 quid in Tesco's gets a bottle of vodka and a slab of cans.

If that were true alcohol consumption would not be on a pretty consistent downward trend since the turn of the century: http://alcoholireland.ie/per-capita-alcohol-consumption-in-ireland-in-2015-was-10-93-litres-of-pure-alcohol-per-person-aged-15/

whisky_galore

Chrongen wrote: »

I would disagree. There are loads of pubs in Dublin that are just as you have described. Handful of taps, Manhattan salted peanuts on a piece of cardboard by the till and the decor hasn't changed in 1000 years. They are doing fine. They aren't competing. They have their regulars and that's that. There's scores of thee pubs, McNeils, Board Head, Nealons, Lord Edward, Brogans', the list goes on and on. These places don't offer gimmicks or gastro grub or 100 lousy craft ales on draught. McNeils has a bit of a trad session now and then and boars' head does pub grub. Whopee.

I do know a few 'oul fella' pubs, just drink and hoops and maybe a dartboard. Hard to know what will happen to those when they lose their regulars through natural wastage.

pilly

There's a few reasons imo:

1. There were way too many of them. 4 in my local village for a population of 350

2. Smoking ban. As much as the publicans are still trying to sell this as a positive it puts a lot of people off going out.

3. Perception of tougher drink driving laws. In reality this is not the case. I haven't been breath tested in 10 years, drive extensively day and night. Also, fake breath tests?

Personally I just think it's a natural cull. It would be a shame if there wasn't at least one pub in each village but that's all that's needed. If the community need to come together they can do it in one place.

shaunr68

We live near to a village with a population of just over 300, there are FIVE pubs. It's completely unsustainable. They're always empty. One local landlord spends his evenings sitting alone in the bar and turns the lights on if he gets a customer. Amusingly there is even a nightclub, never been in but I can imagine the clientele on a typical night would be a couple of farmers wearing glittery wellies, each nursing a pint of Guinness. It's inevitable, society has changed and the local pub is no longer the centre of the community. I'm originally from Liverpool and you see the same over there. Doing some family history research recently, I find it interesting to use Google Maps to view the streets where my grandparents lived. The old houses are long gone of course, courtesy of slum clearance and the Luftwaffe. It's all modern maisonettes now. The sole remaining landmark on my grandmother's street, a few doors down from where she was born in 1912, was the local pub, and sadly it's all boarded up.

Mrs OBumble

whisky_galore wrote: »

. Hard to know what will happen to those when they lose their regulars through natural wastage.

Aging population means its a growing sector.

They could offer two-for-one to recent retirees and they'll be busy for life.

shaunr68

shaunr68 wrote: »

We live near to a village with a population of just over 300, there are FIVE pubs. It's completely unsustainable. They're always empty. One local landlord spends his evenings sitting alone in the bar and turns the lights on if he gets a customer. Amusingly there is even a nightclub, never been in but I can imagine the clientele on a typical night would be a couple of farmers wearing glittery wellies, each nursing a pint of Guinness. It's inevitable, society has changed and the local pub is no longer the centre of the community. I'm originally from Liverpool and you see the same over there. Doing some family history research recently, I find it interesting to use Google Maps to view the streets where my grandparents lived. The old houses are long gone of course, courtesy of slum clearance and the Luftwaffe. It's all modern maisonettes now. The sole remaining landmark on my grandmother's street, a few doors down from where she was born in 1912, was the local pub, and sadly it's all boarded up.

Yeah as much as the "rural pubs" thing gets attention the urban ones seem to slip under the radar. Even now I'd say there are too many to be sustained in my town but I can think of a couple of dozen that have gone since I was born and only 2 that have opened that weren't on the same premises as an old pub.

BattleCorp

Considering the population, many areas of rural Ireland are over populated with pubs.

I'm from a small rural town that had three hotels and eleven pubs. Since the recession, two of the hotels have closed and so have five of the pubs.

That leaves six pubs which is still plenty. Of those six, two seem to be doing reasonably well and I honestly wonder how the other four are still open. They do fcukall and seem to be more of a past-time for their owners.

Rural pubs are a dying trade unfortunately.

whisky_galore

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Aging population means its a growing sector.

They could offer two-for-one to recent retirees and they'll be busy for life.

Tastes change. The retirees of tomorrow may not be satisfied propping up a bar, day in, day out.

Noveight

blue note wrote: »

Do you actually think that the list you've given is a realistic alternative to the pub for the people most affected by their closures or their inaccessibility due to the drink driving laws?

You asked me to expand on the post where I mentioned healthier, cheaper and more fun alternatives to the pub and I listed those in my locality. Some tick two of those boxes, some one, depends wholly on the individual of course.

If you'd specified that you'd activities for the elderly in mind I would indeed have agreed that the alternatives are few and far between. In hindsight my original post was possibly a bit narrow in that I was speaking for myself / my age group.

Victor

A lot of it is down to drinking at home and the sale of rural licences so new pubs / off-licences can be established elsewhere - rural publicans are selling out because of the money they can get.

hurler32 wrote: »

Depopulation of rural Ireland to Dublin and abroad

Eh ... https://twitter.com/danobrien20/status/963014511996399616

Seanachai

I'm from rural Ireland, I go home maybe once a month and I haven't been in the local pub in over a year. The atmosphere in the place is grim and it's not much better in the pubs in the nearby villages or town. A lot of local young people have emigrated and young people really do create a buzz around a place. I'd sooner drink at home and listen to some music than go to the local which is a sausage fest of middle aged to auld fellas grumbling about politics and the GAA.

I think something changed in the fabric of communities that is hard to describe, we don't seem to have as much time for each other, people are wrapped up in keeping afloat or getting rich. In previous decades choices were a lot more limited and the local pub was where it was at.

seachto7

By the sounds of it, if you're a woman in rural Ireland , you have blokes queuing up to win you over?

pilly

seachto7 wrote: »

By the sounds of it, if you're a woman in rural Ireland , you have blokes queuing up to win you over?

I wish!!!

Staplor

El Weirdo wrote: »

This is nonsense. Guinness and Heineken clean the lines for their products themselves, and they have done so for ages now.

So why is there one particular pub that'll guarantee me a throbbing hangover on 4 pints, while other pubs I can have 8 no bother? Because the beer is ****e, the delivery system is all I can attribute it to.

Now BTW, this is the quintessential rural village **** pub.

Big Nasty

Glass hygiene, either too much or too little.

BattleCorp

Staplor wrote: »

So why is there one particular pub that'll guarantee me a throbbing hangover on 4 pints, while other pubs I can have 8 no bother? Because the beer is ****e, the delivery system is all I can attribute it to.

Now BTW, this is the quintessential rural village **** pub.

It might have something to do with how far the keg is from the tap. Long lines don't help.

Or out of date beer or different glass cleaning chemicals could also play a part.

Staplor

It really shouldn't matter. This pub I'm talking about has practically a minority in a small village, pool table, cards, musical acts at the weekend. There's no need for ****ty pints. I've stopped frequenting the kip because it is just that.

A decent pub is worth travelling for, even a decent pint is worth travelling for. Pubs need to up their game, they've far too much competition and need to modernise.

And the Guinness in particular tastes rank, and the draw isn't all that far either!!!

NewbridgeIR

McGrath5 wrote: »

Also - and this goes not just for rural pubs, the selection of drinks available tends to be quite poor. If you wish to drink something apart from Guinness, Heineken or Bulmers, you'll quickly find that your choice is very limited.

At least in the likes of Lidl or Aldi, I can try something different each week and for a more reasonable price too, rather than having some overpriced Diageo slop thrown at me in a smelly pub.

Key reason IMHO.
Many pubs refuse to stock anything other than the usual suspects - not even a few bottles of craft beers let alone draught.

JupiterKid

hurler32 wrote: »

No im not but Gardai ..Ban Gardai in particular seem to specialize in bagging honest law abiding sorts ( in many cases teetotaler ) in the morning time.....seem to like scaring the elderly into been afraid to have a drink at all or venture out.....
Where as when these elderly are been broken into by travellers etc theres no guards to be found...Probably a broader piece on guards picking the handy catchs as opposed to tackling some of the evil scumbags outthere....

There havent been any ban gardai in over 25 years. You must mean female gardai who are paid the same as their male counterparts (and rightly so)

Rural pubs are dying because of mass urbanisation which is unstoppable, rural depopulation, high alcohol prices, the long term effects of the indoor smoking ban, poor standards and choice of drinks, declining and more discerning alcohol consumption and the drink driving ban. The future for those pubs that do survive is to offer a good food service, in rural towns, a heated smoking area, good choice of beers, a minibus service to take punters home. It was ridiculous anyway where every small town had 15 pubs. Good riddance to the filthy tiny establishment with 3rd world jacks, 2 beers on tap and decor from 1961.

Pubs are in serious decline everywhere. They will be halved in number in less than 20 years time. Irish people are wealthier, more sophisticated, more cosmopolitan and are preferring to eat out at restaurants or "gastropubs" than go to some local shebeen at the weekend.

mikemac2

My small village of 600 had three pubs and another two just 2km away

The three that are left worked hard to establish a food business, have trad music sessions, card nights and marketed fhemselves to tourists (lakeside tourist hotspot) and don’t just rely on locals

The ones that are gone had a darts boards, boring selection of beers and most of their elderly customers are not even alive anymore! They could blame drink driving, smoking ban or whatever but it was survival of the fittest and they are not missed. An old mans pub with your small paddy or powers, no music or TV can work and some want that but in a rural area that’s not enough turnover

5 pubs in a village isn’t sustainable anyway

foxy farmer

Some of these "publicans" are their own worst enemy. They have some romantic notions about running a pub. There was a fine pub with overhead residence built here back in the mid 80s. Rural location, off road parking, bar lounge dance floor pool table plenty seating. Closed after 30 yrs in 2015.
It had 4 owners. Of the 4 only 1 had any business acumen. He'd have music and dancing at least one night on the weekend sometimes 3 nights. Ceili dancing lessons line dancing, cards, pool darts competitions etc. Ran it for nearly 12 yrs. The other 3 were clueless amadans. Poor attitude to customers and no interest in anything but selling drink. The last crowd bought it in 2000 for 0ver 300k. Were rumoured to open kitchen and do grub. Thankfully they didnt as the pub turned into a pure kip. Cold, damp seats stinking toilets and a barman who was only interested in the big shot customers. They ran it for the last 6 months without renewing the licence. The drinks companies wouldn't supply them over it so they resorted to buying kegs off pubs in the nearby village and buying spirits in the supermarket.
After trying to sell the place for nearly 10 yrs it was finally sold as a residential property in 2016 for about 85k. I have yet to hear someone say they miss the place.

andekwarhola

Dunno if the point has been made but there's too many pubs as well. And that's from somebody that likes going to pubs. My wife is from a small rural village and there's about 6 pubs in the place.

It's like the taxis thing was in Dublin: a public service that needs to adapt with the times rather than a profession to which you're entitled to in perpetuity, even to the point of jackass legislation like MUP.

cycle4fun

Victor wrote: »

A lot of it is down to drinking at home

And a lot of people are terrified of going to the pub and having 2 or 3 pints as it would mean driving home, so they do not go to the pub. Losing the licence is not an option. Going to the pub at the weekend was all some people had to look forward to after a weeks work on the farm.

weldoninhio

JupiterKid wrote: »

There havent been any ban gardai in over 25 years. You must mean female gardai who are paid the same as their male counterparts (and rightly so)

Rural pubs are dying because of mass urbanisation which is unstoppable, rural depopulation, high alcohol prices, the long term effects of the indoor smoking ban, poor standards and choice of drinks, declining and more discerning alcohol consumption and the drink driving ban. The future for those pubs that do survive is to offer a good food service, in rural towns, a heated smoking area, good choice of beers, a minibus service to take punters home. It was ridiculous anyway where every small town had 15 pubs. Good riddance to the filthy tiny establishment with 3rd world jacks, 2 beers on tap and decor from 1961.

Pubs are in serious decline everywhere. They will be halved in number in less than 20 years time. Irish people are wealthier, more sophisticated, more cosmopolitan and are preferring to eat out at restaurants or "gastropubs" than go to some local shebeen at the weekend.

There are more people living rurally now that 25/30 years ago.

BattleCorp

I passed the nearest rural pub to me on my way home from work last night. It was about 10.20pm and there were two cars in the car park. The pub is on a crossroads with very few houses within easy walking distance.

Rural pubs are fcuked. Well, at least that one is.

Skyfloater

Staplor wrote: »

So why is there one particular pub that'll guarantee me a throbbing hangover on 4 pints, while other pubs I can have 8 no bother? Because the beer is ****e, the delivery system is all I can attribute it to.

Now BTW, this is the quintessential rural village **** pub.

If drinking 8 pints on a night out is normal for you, you've got bigger issues than dirty lines.

JupiterKid

weldoninhio wrote: »

There are more people living rurally now that 25/30 years ago.

In the immediate commuter hinterlands of our cities yes, but these people don't tend to patronise the local pubs. Nor are they packing the local churches out. In more remote rural areas, they are dying and being denuded of people, especially young peoole who are moving en masse to Dublin and the other cities for jobs and opportunities. The clock will not be turned back nor should it.

Rural Ireland is indeed dying and no amount of arguing about the census trends will change that. Irelands rate of urbanisatiin is accelerating and if the discgraceful scourge of one off rural housing wasn't as bad as it was here, it would be even more so.

BattleCorp

Skyfloater wrote: »

If drinking 8 pints on a night out is normal for you, you've got bigger issues than dirty lines.

8 pints every night is a problem. 8 pints on an odd night out wouldn't be mental excessive.

Staplor

BattleCorp wrote: »

8 pints every night is a problem. 8 pints on an odd night out wouldn't be mental excessive.

Thanks for that, never said 8 pints would be a normal night out, it was in the spirit of context from one particular **** hole.

seamus

cycle4fun wrote: »

And a lot of people are terrified of going to the pub and having 2 or 3 pints as it would mean driving home, so they do not go to the pub. Losing the licence is not an option. Going to the pub at the weekend was all some people had to look forward to after a weeks work on the farm.

Good. Because they shouldn't be having a drink and driving home.

"It's all I have to look forward to", is no excuse. You cannot justify putting lives at risk because some farmers are unwilling to have a bit of imagination.

We're better off with these idiots sitting at home whining than having them going to the pub and driving home after a feed of pints.

shaunr68

cycle4fun wrote: »

And a lot of people are terrified of going to the pub and having 2 or 3 pints as it would mean driving home, so they do not go to the pub. Losing the licence is not an option. Going to the pub at the weekend was all some people had to look forward to after a weeks work on the farm.

Great, the Healy Raes are on Boards!

blue note

Noveight wrote: »

You asked me to expand on the post where I mentioned healthier, cheaper and more fun alternatives to the pub and I listed those in my locality. Some tick two of those boxes, some one, depends wholly on the individual of course.

If you'd specified that you'd activities for the elderly in mind I would indeed have agreed that the alternatives are few and far between. In hindsight my original post was possibly a bit narrow in that I was speaking for myself / my age group.

That's fair enough and I'm not trying to attack you or anything. I do just feel though that in the discussion around the closure of rural pubs and pub culture in general that we're forgetting about the impact that it's having on some of the most vulnerable people in our society. I sometimes see quite flippant remarks by people that what they're doing is unhealthy anyway and if they can't find an alternative that doesn't put people's lives in danger through drink driving then that's their problem. And sadly, it seems to be entirely their problem. They are receiving little to no support to help deal with it. And I have seen very few viable substitutes to the pub for these people.

It doesn't affect me directly and in fact I'm from a town so the drink driving laws don't have much of an effect there. It's not even affecting my parents who could walk to the pub if they wanted to but they don't anyway. But I genuinely feel guilty that my generation is sometimes even smug about how great it is that these pubs are closing when there are people who feel trapped in their homes because of the change.

washman3

Super-Rush wrote: »

Anyone drink driving is an evil scumbag.

Would you label people texting on a mobile phone while driving an evil scumbag too.? The practice is now said to be 20 times more dangerous than drink driving.

Or do you simply ignore it because you do it yourself...;)

Minderbinder

People are really overestimating the impact of drink driving laws on rural drinkers. It has close to zero influence on people. Legal limits have been around for decades and those who ignored them in the 80’s would ignore them today, as would a similar percentage of younger generations. Those who obeyed them in the 80’s still do so. Plus there are less guards around than before by a long way who are not inclined to be out and about at closing time because they turn the other cheek.

Pubs were packed until 2008/9 and don’t tell me anything has changed regarding enforcement of drink driving in that time until now in rural areas.

What happened is actually the economic crash sent young people looking for cheaper alcohol and the culture of mostly drinking at home began, and they liked it and probably don’t see the value of going back to pubs, especially rural pubs.

Minderbinder

washman3 wrote: »

Super-Rush wrote: »

Anyone drink driving is an evil scumbag.

Would you label people texting on a mobile phone while driving an evil scumbag too.? The practice is now said to be 20 times more dangerous than drink driving.

Or do you simply ignore it because you do it yourself...;)

It’s no comparison at all for me. I did drink and drive occasionally and creeping along on a rural road at 2am was no risk to anyone. Drunk people phoning me to give them a lift home - I’d be far more dangerous behind the wheel but what choice do people have.

And as for texting and driving I have absolutely no idea how that works. It’s insanely reckless in my opinion.

Billy86

cycle4fun wrote: »

And a lot of people are terrified of going to the pub and having 2 or 3 pints as it would mean driving home, so they do not go to the pub. Losing the licence is not an option. Going to the pub at the weekend was all some people had to look forward to after a weeks work on the farm.

Username... doesn't check out.

MeTheMan

Did anyone blame one off housing yet?

DEFTLEFTHAND

MeTheMan wrote: »

Did anyone blame one off housing yet?

Or the GAA.

lisasimpson

One thing that rural pubs actually all pubs could do is also stock a better range of non alcoholic bears..in most cases its just becks you get in Ireland..many brands now produce them but very few sold in Ireland

foxy farmer

lisasimpson wrote: »

One thing that rural pubs actually all pubs could do is also stock a better range of non alcoholic bears..in most cases its just becks you get in Ireland..many brands now produce them but very few sold in Ireland

Publicans don't really like teetotallers on their premises. Yes they'll serve them and charge extortionate prices for minerals but theyd prefer to see the back of them. We're seen as dry sh1tes or tight or keeping tabs on others. As one local barman referred to them as "ceiling inspectors."
If you're the only non drinker in a crowd out for a night it can get very boring.