2018 Rás

greenspurs

"i think it's an unexciting race, won by lads I'll never hear of again"

OOps, someone hasn't done their homework !!!

1bryan

brocbrocach wrote: »

My opinion as a non-racing weekender is that the foreign teams don't really add much to the whole thing, apart from being good cyclists obviously. The county rider is outclassed and only the very best can hope for a stage placing, maybe snatch a win on their best day. So they trail around for 8 days trying to overcome the disadvantage they've started with.
Only the lads who have gone semi pro themselves, Shaw, Dunbar, McCarthy, McKenna, and lads like Morton, McCrystal in a wonder year, in recent years have a chance to beat them.
So in reality these foreign teams who spend their weekends racing the level below pro in Europe will be the ones to decide the race. But what do they bring to the Ras to warrant the invite? Will Clement Fankhauser, gentleman and all as he is, bring the kids screaming to the school wall to watch the Ras go by? No he won't because the foreign teams have as much stardust to them as a damp squib. But the local fella riding for his county, engaged in a battle with the brute from Dublin/the North/the West/ etc can be a figure of legend on our local scene, even if he can't sometimes match the watts of a Belgian semi-pro. It's like putting our small scale league of Ireland soccer teams against okayish European opposition (Brondby or Legia Warsaw maybe) as opposed to sticking to the GAA model of local competition, junior club to county senior, where we all know what our colours are and who represents them. (I was sad to see Kerrymen in two teams wearing club gear for example).
Would a county setup be such a let down to the casual fan, used to watching Contador battling Nibali? I was at possibly the decisive climb of this week's Ras and saw not one single casual fan - Ras fans would love it in any shape or form i think personally.
As I said at the start of this i don't race. Maybe the racing cyclists love the centrepiece of the year to be mixing with the big boys for a week. Maybe it's pitched at just the right level where the very best can realistically aim for a good result. Personally i think it's an unexciting race, won by lads I'll never hear of again and with nothing to grab the attention of the wider public. As a spectacle, the racers flash past me in 10 seconds, much like the stages of the Giro I've seen, neither a great entertainment.
I'd love of it was made a county competition again. 30ish teams of 5, 6 or 7 each. Never mind the uci classification

I broached this argument last year, mostly just to generate a bit of chat on the topic. The arguments in favour for keeping it as it is were pretty solid. As long as county riders want to put themselves through the hellish training regimes to be able to partake, I think a race should be provided for them to pit themselves against such high-class riders.

It's a unique race, and there's nothing like a win from Eoin Morton or Conor Dunne to shut the pros, with their condescending attitude (not all of course), up.

Have to say, as someone who considers themselves a pro-cycling fan, the Ras is the race I most look forward to following in the race calendar.

And I have nothing but the utmost respect for anyone who makes it to the start line (let alone to actually finish the thing). Throughout the winter months, without fail, while I'd wus out of going for a spin due to the weather, on the way back from my warm gym I'd see the Tiernan's Ras lads out training. Whether it was -2 degrees and sun, or +3 degrees and hailstones, they'd be out. The mental toughness required to do that is something else.

There are plenty of races for county riders. But only one Ras. And it's precious, and shouldn't change one jot.

Chips Lovell

The year I did the Ras it was won by Lucas Postalberger. Two years later, he was wearing the pink jersey at the Giro. As a county rider, that's kind of cool, to be able to point at the TV and tell people, "I raced against that guy".

I can race against my fellow county riders any weekend of the season. The Ras and the Nationals are some of the few opportunities that guys like me get to go up against the stars and the stars of the future.

brocbrocach

greenspurs wrote: »

"i think it's an unexciting race, won by lads I'll never hear of again"

OOps, someone hasn't done their homework !!!

Not really no. While the best riders (look at the Aussie u23 team of a few years ago) will make it to the pro scene eventually they don't have the star power at the time to draw out anything but hardcore fans.

As regards unexciting, I'm not sure the parcours is set up for exciting racing. Allowing the county riders to hang on and giving various towns exposure seem to be the primary drivers there. The race this year was controlled from stage one to 10k from the end by the Swiss. It's not the first year it's happened.

greenspurs

brocbrocach wrote: »

Not really no. While the best riders (look at the Aussie u23 team of a few years ago) will make it to the pro scene eventually they don't have the star power at the time to draw out anything but hardcore fans.

QUOTE]

The fairly illustrious list of riders that have done the Ras has been listed by others, so to say "will never hear of again" is a bit glib really, and maybe for the majority of the riders , that is true, but still.....

1bryan

Amprodude wrote: »

Simon Richardson too.

Cam Meier (spelling?), Alex Peters (yes, THAT Alex Peters).

Eddie Dunbar. Peter Kennaugh.

brocbrocach

Jai Hindley...

There's no equivalent stage race in Ireland for just county riders. 8 days makes for a much better spectacle than 3.

harringtonp

greenspurs wrote: »

brocbrocach wrote: »

Not really no. While the best riders (look at the Aussie u23 team of a few years ago) will make it to the pro scene eventually they don't have the star power at the time to draw out anything but hardcore fans.

QUOTE]

The fairly illustrious list of riders that have done the Ras has been listed by others, so to say "will never hear of again" is a bit glib really, and maybe for the majority of the riders , that is true, but still.....

What brocbrocach is simply pointing out (and is true) is that at the time these future stars ride the Ras, they are not known on the global stage. When following the RAS I don't know any of the top guys. When I see their names later on with World Tour teams I usually remember them.

buffalo

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

The year I did the Ras it was won by Lucas Postalberger. Two years later, he was wearing the pink jersey at the Giro. As a county rider, that's kind of cool, to be able to point at the TV and tell people, "I raced against that guy".

We also have a clubmate who can brag that he beat Mark Cavendish in a sprint, which is pretty awesome.

A Rás without the pros just doesn't hold the same attraction. It's basically a week-long Rás Mumhan, and that prospect is horrible - as much as I 'enjoy' Rás Mumhan.

jimbobaloobob

harringtonp wrote: »

greenspurs wrote: »

What brocbrocach is simply pointing out (and is true) is that at the time these future stars ride the Ras, they are not known on the global stage. When following the RAS I don't know any of the top guys. When I see their names later on with World Tour teams I usually remember them.

In the 80s we had the Nissan classic and the Kellogg's criterium that brought the house hold names like Kelly, Roche, Keiper, Anderson, Yates, Mottet, de Silva to our shores.

2007-2009 we had the tour of Ireland which brought Armstrong, Cavendish, Schlecks etc. The prob is these big events cost a fortune and are often loss leaders which appearance fees that need to be met etc.

A lot of the big names were shepherded away from the public before and after the events so the public didn't get any great opportunities to follow them and the race was small enough for the big teams to often not priorities it with their A list riders.

One of the big draws of the Ras is that it's a stepping stone for those on the way up and it's an opportunity for many to quit their jobs for a week, pitch against the pros even if it's only for a lamppost and be thankful they have an easier way for earning a living the week after.

It is a sport where the best spectator view is from the peloton or cavalcade.

wirelessdude01

brocbrocach wrote:

As regards unexciting, I'm not sure the parcours is set up for exciting racing. Allowing the county riders to hang on and giving various towns exposure seem to be the primary drivers there. The race this year was controlled from stage one to 10k from the end by the Swiss. It's not the first year it's happened.

Hqve Sky not done something similar at nearly every Tour Dear France for the past 6 years?

1bryan

harringtonp wrote: »

greenspurs wrote: »

What brocbrocach is simply pointing out (and is true) is that at the time these future stars ride the Ras, they are not known on the global stage. When following the RAS I don't know any of the top guys. When I see their names later on with World Tour teams I usually remember them.

that's a great thing though, right? We get guys who will become top pros coming here to race the Ras as part of their development. It's great to then see them on the world stage having, just a few years before, watched them in our national race.

We need to keep perspective here though. Most county riders have comparatively modest goals they wish to achieve (ie: to finish, maybe to get in a break). If they do that, then job done. I can't imagine too many county riders would prefer the Ras to be sans-pros. I work with a guy who had clubmates racing. On one of the stages he got up the road in a chase group (there was a group ahead of them). His whole club were overjoyed at this. And they're dead right too.

Incidentally, one disappointing thing this year was the lack of a british development team in the race. I thought it was a given they'd send a team every year and was secretly hoping British Cycling, with their endless funds, might support the Ras going forward.

terrydel

1bryan wrote: »

I broached this argument last year, mostly just to generate a bit of chat on the topic. The arguments in favour for keeping it as it is were pretty solid. As long as county riders want to put themselves through the hellish training regimes to be able to partake, I think a race should be provided for them to pit themselves against such high-class riders.

It's a unique race, and there's nothing like a win from Eoin Morton or Conor Dunne to shut the pros, with their condescending attitude (not all of course), up.

Have to say, as someone who considers themselves a pro-cycling fan, the Ras is the race I most look forward to following in the race calendar.

And I have nothing but the utmost respect for anyone who makes it to the start line (let alone to actually finish the thing). Throughout the winter months, without fail, while I'd wus out of going for a spin due to the weather, on the way back from my warm gym I'd see the Tiernan's Ras lads out training. Whether it was -2 degrees and sun, or +3 degrees and hailstones, they'd be out. The mental toughness required to do that is something else.

There are plenty of races for county riders. But only one Ras. And it's precious, and shouldn't change one jot.

Put themselves thru hellish training that is no doubt harder than what inter-county gaa players constantly love to tell us all about, and without the cushy 'jobs' those lot get.

Chips Lovell

The other thing is that you have to use a good chunk of your annual leave to do it. Personally, if I was just racing against the same guys I race against every weekend, I wouldn't bother taking a week off work and would use it for an actual holiday.

terrydel

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

The other thing is that you have to use a good chunk of your annual leave to do it. Personally, if I was just racing against the same guys I race against every weekend, I wouldn't bother taking a week off work and would use it for an actual holiday.

Biggest thing with cycling for me, is the number of hours training required.
Cant be many sports that require so much time.
Im guessing Ras competitors do 15-20 hours a week?
I've a 9-5 job, and can barely manage 10 a week. I do that for a few months for something like the Etape, and Im knackered with it most of the time. Rest of my time is spent looking after my dogs & things around the house, other than that Ive time for nothing else.
I hardly watch tv at all, have given up motorcycling in my spare time as I dont have any!
Hats off to anyone who trains like a pro with a real job/family life to manage along with it. The gaa guys often get jobs thru contacts etc that make their intercounty career much easier. Far play to them, thats the power and size of the gaa, but theyd struggle if they had a real job imho.

1bryan

terrydel wrote: »

Put themselves thru hellish training that is no doubt harder than what inter-county gaa players constantly love to tell us all about, and without the cushy 'jobs' those lot get.

would be a vast minority that get 'those' jobs, to be fair.

And yes, there's no comparison. Inter-county training is quite a slog, especially in the winter, but I can't imagine anything worse than having to fit three-four hours in every day (around work) on the bike during january and february.

terrydel

1bryan wrote: »

would be a vast minority that get 'those' jobs, to be fair.

And yes, there's no comparison. Inter-county training is quite a slog, especially in the winter, but I can't imagine anything worse than having to fit three-four hours in every day (around work) on the bike during january and february.

Do you mean to say a vast majority of the gaa IC lads get the handy jobs?
Id say a fair % do, but obviously I dont know for sure.
The very nature of cycling makes it tough, you have to do long hours (relatively speaking at least), and you could be pedalling at 40kmph+ into a freezing wind/rain/hail for a lot of the year!
Most other sports you are into the shower after an hour or so of that weather.

1bryan

terrydel wrote: »

Do you mean to say a vast majority of the gaa IC lads get the handy jobs?
Id say a fair % do, but obviously I dont know for sure.

no, very few get the cushy jobs. I know this for sure. Lots of lads do get fixed up with jobs but they wouldn't be cushy. And you wouldn't need to be inter-county either. It's common practice at club level but, if you're fixed up with a job by a club, you wouldn't want to dirty your bib with that club or your job might go bye-bye.

The bigger personalities get the cushy numbers. I used to play with a very high-profile ex-inter county player who had a 'job' in one of the big banks. He didn't do a tap. They just wanted to run ads with his picture in them.

It's a fickle business though and you need to maximise it when you're on top. Like, you could be a no one in relative terms, but open an instagram account and get yourself 50-60k followers and all of a sudden you're an influencer and businesses/brands want to get involved.

It's often nothing to do with ability or success levels.

Chips Lovell

terrydel wrote: »

Biggest thing with cycling for me, is the number of hours training required.
Cant be many sports that require so much time.
Im guessing Ras competitors do 15-20 hours a week?
I've a 9-5 job, and can barely manage 10 a week. I do that for a few months for something like the Etape, and Im knackered with it most of the time. Rest of my time is spent looking after my dogs & things around the house, other than that Ive time for nothing else.

Thing about the training is that, if I were doing a full season racing without the Ras, i.e. open races every weekend, few stage races like Ras Mumhan or the Tour of Ulster, the time I'd spend training would be very similar, but the amount of holidays taken is much less.

You're right though, it's the training that really impacts real life. I've 18 month old twins now and while I could still, in theory, train and race as much as I used to before, I'd miss out on spending a lot of time with them.

terrydel

1bryan wrote: »

no, very few get the cushy jobs. I know this for sure. Lots of lads do get fixed up with jobs but they wouldn't be cushy. And you wouldn't need to be inter-county either. It's common practice at club level but, if you're fixed up with a job by a club, you wouldn't want to dirty your bib with that club or your job might go bye-bye.

The bigger personalities get the cushy numbers. I used to play with a very high-profile ex-inter county player who had a 'job' in one of the big banks. He didn't do a tap. They just wanted to run ads with his picture in them.

It's a fickle business though and you need to maximise it when you're on top. Like, you could be a no one in relative terms, but open an instagram account and get yourself 50-60k followers and all of a sudden you're an influencer and businesses/brands want to get involved.

It's often nothing to do with ability or success levels.

I get you. I think they all get jobs that at least work with them around training hours, perhaps lots do a proper days work once they clock in but at least the job facilitates the time needed to train etc. I doubt thats the case with cyclists in the Ras, they train around their work as opposed to vice versa with the IC gaa lads.
But yeah, the higher profile lads get the Soprano style 'no-show jobs'! I worked in a place once and a high profile player at the start of his IC career got a job there thru one of the high up managers, it was purely for publicity reasons.
Dont get me started on that influencer ****e! Thats another days work!

ford2600

terrydel wrote: »

Put themselves thru hellish training that is no doubt harder than what inter-county gaa players constantly love to tell us all about, and without the cushy 'jobs' those lot get.

That's quite a viewpoint for a premiership soccer fan....

Happy to finance diving millionaires but have an issue with "cushy" work... have you a full manifesto of your thoughts?

The time given to inter county top level is comparable to cycling RAS training; the cyclist spends more time training though and it's physically harder.

Employers employ former top athletes as they typically have their sh1t together and have the discipline and team work ethos to be good employees/ambassadors.

Being in the public glare and high profile while an amateur is a double edge sword though.

terrydel

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

Thing about the training is that, if I were doing a full season racing without the Ras, i.e. open races every weekend, few stage races like Ras Mumhan or the Tour of Ulster, the time I'd spend training would be very similar, but the amount of holidays taken is much less.

You're right though, it's the training that really impacts real life. I've 18 month old twins now and while I could still, in theory, train and race as much as I used to before, I'd miss out on spending a lot of time with them.

How many hours would you be doing if training for the Ras? 15+?
Im a twin myself, twins a great

brocbrocach

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Hqve Sky not done something similar at nearly every Tour Dear France for the past 6 years?

No word of a lie there, and to be fair I'm far from alone in preferring the Giro or Vuelta for excitement. When the majority of the peloton is struggling to challenge one or two superteams it's hard for individuals to animate a race.


I get what racers are saying about taking on the pros and that's a good point, everyone ups their game to face the big challenge.

terrydel

ford2600 wrote: »

That's quite a viewpoint for a premiership soccer fan....

Happy to finance diving millionaires but have an issue with "cushy" work... have you a full manifesto of your thoughts?

The time given to inter county top level is comparable to cycling RAS training; the cyclist spends more time training though and it's physically harder.

Employers employ former top athletes as they typically have their sh1t together and have the discipline and team work ethos to be good employees/ambassadors.

Being in the public glare and high profile while an amateur is a double edge sword though.

And I'm sure you'd be turning down the millions at the first opportunity.
GAA players never dive of course.

terrydel

ford2600 wrote: »

That's quite a viewpoint for a premiership soccer fan....

Happy to finance diving millionaires but have an issue with "cushy" work... have you a full manifesto of your thoughts?

The time given to inter county top level is comparable to cycling RAS training; the cyclist spends more time training though and it's physically harder.

Employers employ former top athletes as they typically have their sh1t together and have the discipline and team work ethos to be good employees/ambassadors.

Being in the public glare and high profile while an amateur is a double edge sword though.

And I dont have an issue with it, I merely pointed out it happens. I said fair play to them in another post if you'd bother to read it.

YoTaro

What would be a typical week of training for these riders to prepare for the RAS over the last few months? From a non-racer

wirelessdude01

ec5050 wrote:

What would be a typical week of training for these riders to prepare for the RAS over the last few months? From a non-racer

Anything from 10hrs to 20hrs. The lower end would consist of a huge amount of high intensity stuff while the upper end could consist of slightly lower intensity stuff mid week with two long spins and Saturday and Sunday.

Bambaata

From top of my head I did about 12-14hrs on average, some lower some higher. Long rides most Saturday and Sundays and rode most days, some unplanned days missed but mostly was a 7 day ride week. Im just a get arounder and not sure doing anything much more would have done much more for me.

I kicked off early December with help of a coach after a few bits in November.

aworthycause

Secret's out! ***onto Whatsapp straight away***

harringtonp

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Anything from 10hrs to 20hrs. The lower end would consist of a huge amount of high intensity stuff while the upper end could consist of slightly lower intensity stuff mid week with two long spins and Saturday and Sunday.

How do guys do hours of intensity ? To benefit from it recovery is needed. If I were training for it would think days starting Monday would have to be something like

Rest, HIIT, Z2, Z2, Rest, Z2 Long, Z2 long