Drivers on the phones: its getting scary!!

average_runner

magicbastarder wrote: »

anecdote alert - i know someone who once crashed a car (minor damage) because he flicked a cigarette butt out the window and it flew back in and went down his back.

Deserved it. Should bin his rubbish

magicbastarder

well, he certainly didn't get much sympathy from us - or the car owner. he was working as a car mechanic at the time and was returning the car to a valued customer.

rubadub

average_runner wrote: »

Surely smoking should be considered illegal when driving

as I was saying if it was newer it might be more acceptable to make it illegal.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5418965/Vaping-wheel-cost-licence.html

They say smoking or eating could be considered illegal, but vaping can be covered under "handheld electronic device" -which obviously tried to cover phones, mp3 players and cameras etc, -though I do think smoking vapes should be included- though far less dangerous than smoking actual lit cigarettes/cigars/pipes.

Although vaping while driving is not illegal, it is up to the discretion of police officers to determine what they deem a potentially dangerous and distracting handheld electronic device.

raspberrypi67

Saw a Taxi driver the other day as I was coming to my estate, he had his phone at about the 2 o clock position on his windscreen, hapilly scrolling through his messeges as he drove along, I see this more and more often, semi hands free...LOL

RobertFoster

raspberrypi67 wrote: »

Saw a Taxi driver the other day as I was coming to my estate, he had his phone at about the 2 o clock position on his windscreen, hapilly scrolling through his messeges as he drove along, I see this more and more often, semi hands free...LOL

The number of people I see holding their phone like a Star Trek Communicator chatting away on (I presume) loudspeaker. I wonder do they think holding it to their ear is the illegal part? :rolleyes:

D3V!L

RobertFoster wrote: »

The number of people I see holding their phone like a Star Trek Communicator chatting away on (I presume) loudspeaker. I wonder do they think holding it to their ear is the illegal part? :rolleyes:

Its even more obvious when they hold it out in front of them. Maybe it makes them feel even more important.

My missus said she seen a lad in a 181 Landrover flying around the corner near us the other day with a phone stuck to his ear. I'd say even the paddy spec landies have Bluetooth in them.

X6.430macman

D3V!L wrote:

My missus said she seen a lad in a 181 Landrover flying around the corner near us the other day with a phone stuck to his ear. I'd say even the paddy spec landies have Bluetooth in them.

No excuse for that, when new tractors have Bluetooth then I assume all relatively new cars have it

DirkVoodoo

I was passing the British embassy yesterday in rush hour traffic. On my bike, headed south towards Blackrock.

A car just in front and to my right started drifting (almost swerving) into the marked bike lane.

As I cycled past I had a look, older gentleman, left hand on the wheel, head pointed down to his right hand which was holding his phone down next to his knee.

If the gardai aren't going to enforce the law, I'd prefer if it didn't exist. At least someone holding their phone up in full view won't be staring at the footwell of their car and might have slightly better awareness.

raspberrypi67

Jasus, you could make a furtune if you could collect bounties for taking photos of miss use of phones in cars, send them off to the police...euro per head...lol

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

I was passing the British embassy yesterday in rush hour traffic. On my bike, headed south towards Blackrock.

A car just in front and to my right started drifting (almost swerving) into the marked bike lane.

As I cycled past I had a look, older gentleman, left hand on the wheel, head pointed down to his right hand which was holding his phone down next to his knee.

If the gardai aren't going to enforce the law, I'd prefer if it didn't exist. At least someone holding their phone up in full view won't be staring at the footwell of their car and might have slightly better awareness.

AndrewJRenko

raspberrypi67 wrote: »

Jasus, you could make a furtune if you could collect bounties for taking photos of miss use of phones in cars, send them off to the police...euro per head...lol

I'd never have to work again;

http://statescoop.com/distracted-driver-snitching-app-rewards-users-with-5-bounties

What's the legal position about using a phone mounted on the dash? The taxi driver today was scrolling through Instagram videos while driving, but the phone was mounted in a stand, not in his hand (which I thought was the illegal bit).

Kaisr Sose

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'd never have to work again;

http://statescoop.com/distracted-driver-snitching-app-rewards-users-with-5-bounties

What's the legal position about using a phone mounted on the dash? The taxi driver today was scrolling through Instagram videos while driving, but the phone was mounted in a stand, not in his hand (which I thought was the illegal bit).

Was the law not changed to include use of smart phones incl social media / texting / browsing, while in charge of (driving) a moving vehicle ...

ednwireland

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Was the law not changed to include use of smart phones incl social media / texting / browsing, while in charge of (driving) a moving vehicle ...

(1) A person shall not while driving a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place hold a mobile phone.


(4) The Minister may, to avoid the impairment or interference with the driving capacity or capabilities of the driver of a mechanically propelled vehicle, make regulations in relation to the restriction or prohibition in mechanically propelled vehicles in public places of the use of—

(a) a mobile phone (other than in the circumstances referred to in subsection (1)),

(b) an in-vehicle communication device,

(c) information equipment, or

(d) entertainment equipment.

hands-free device ” means a device designed so that when used in conjunction with a mobile phone there is no need for the user to hold the phone by hand;

“ hold ”, in relation to a mobile phone, means holding the phone by hand or supporting or cradling it with another part of the body;

“ interactive communication function ” includes—

(a) sending or receiving oral or written messages,

(b) sending or receiving facsimile documents,

(c) sending or receiving still or moving images, or

(d) providing access to the internet;


Think that covers the statute shame its rarely enforced in any shape or form

AndrewJRenko

ednwireland wrote: »

(1) A person shall not while driving a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place hold a mobile phone.


(4) The Minister may, to avoid the impairment or interference with the driving capacity or capabilities of the driver of a mechanically propelled vehicle, make regulations in relation to the restriction or prohibition in mechanically propelled vehicles in public places of the use of—

(a) a mobile phone (other than in the circumstances referred to in subsection (1)),

(b) an in-vehicle communication device,

(c) information equipment, or

(d) entertainment equipment.

hands-free device ” means a device designed so that when used in conjunction with a mobile phone there is no need for the user to hold the phone by hand;

“ hold ”, in relation to a mobile phone, means holding the phone by hand or supporting or cradling it with another part of the body;

“ interactive communication function ” includes—

(a) sending or receiving oral or written messages,

(b) sending or receiving facsimile documents,

(c) sending or receiving still or moving images, or

(d) providing access to the internet;


Think that covers the statute shame its rarely enforced in any shape or form

So using a dash-mounted phone is not illegal then - once you're not holding the phone?

Kaisr Sose

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So using a dash-mounted phone is not illegal then - once you're not holding the phone?

My understanding is that it is illegal to use one of these devices at all while driving to receive information (voice, text, data, images)

AndrewJRenko

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

My understanding is that it is illegal to use one of these devices at all while driving to receive information (voice, text, data, images)

The law quoted above specifically refers to 'hold' - hence my question.

It is also very possible that a phone in a coat pocket or even locked in the boot could well receive data without any intervention or operation by the phone owner/driver. Apps like Facebook will receive data frequently, checking for updates or notifications - so proof of data transmission is not proof of an offence.

buffalo

ednwireland wrote: »

(1) A person shall not while driving a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place hold a mobile phone.
...

You're missing this one: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2014/si/178/made/en/print

3. In these Regulations—

“read a text message” includes access or open a text message (other than by voice-activation) so that it can be read;

“send a text message” includes compose and type a text message, but does not include anything done without touching the mobile phone;

“SMS” and “MMS” have the meanings assigned to them by Regulation 2(1) of the European Communities (Electronic Communications Networks and Services) (Framework) Regulations 2011 ( S.I. No. 333 of 2011 );

“text message” includes an SMS, an MMS message and an email.

4. A person shall not while driving a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place—

(a) send a text message, or

(b) read a text message,

from a mobile phone.

That one doesn't matter whether you're holding the phone or not. However, it's quite limited really - for instance, I don't think it includes WhatsApp messaging or browsing the internet via a dash-mounted device.

Kaisr Sose

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The law quoted above specifically refers to 'hold' - hence my question.

It is also very possible that a phone in a coat pocket or even locked in the boot could well receive data without any intervention or operation by the phone owner/driver. Apps like Facebook will receive data frequently, checking for updates or notifications - so proof of data transmission is not proof of an offence.

Don’t split hairs. If somebody is actively receiving and reviewing data, they are using their phone. That’s the essence of the law.

It’s not hard to prove at all if witnessed by a Garda. They are deemed to be reliable and neutral in evidence. If a phone was in someone’s pocket or boot and they are not accessing it, then it’s not a problem and they would not come to notice.

The obsession with phones and social media is unreal! Some people can’t even do a productive day at work because they are more interested in their phones than work. Then they go and drive and their phone becomes more important than driving the vehicle.

magicbastarder

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Don’t split hairs. If somebody is actively receiving and reviewing data, they are using their phone. That’s the essence of the law.

splitting hairs is the essence of the law. if the car is reading out their texts or voicemails to them, they're receiving and reviewing data, but there's a clear argument to be made that this is about as distracting as having a conversation with a passenger.

Diarmuid

magicbastarder wrote: »

anecdote alert - i know someone who once crashed a car (minor damage) because he flicked a cigarette butt out the window and it flew back in and went down his back.

This your mate?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjBBDJ5OiT0

Wishbone Ash

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Don’t split hairs.....

magicbastarder wrote: »

splitting hairs is the essence of the law.....

This.

If you don't split hairs, then the accused legal team will certainly split them for you. Otherwise we wouldn't have cases being dropped due to technicalities etc.

Trekker09

Was walking around Ringsend last Wednesday with the Mrs. Was walking over the bridge by the church and traffic was moving slow. Most drivers were looking at their phones and one bloke was actively texting with both hands off of the steering wheel.

AndrewJRenko

magicbastarder wrote: »

splitting hairs is the essence of the law. if the car is reading out their texts or voicemails to them, they're receiving and reviewing data, but there's a clear argument to be made that this is about as distracting as having a conversation with a passenger.

And some newer cars now have the built-in dash controls to make it just so easy to read/reply to text messages while driving, without touching the phone, as Jurgen Klopp keeps showing us on those nice Opel ads. That would make an interesting case, as to whether those use of those on-board controls is illegal.

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Don’t split hairs. If somebody is actively receiving and reviewing data, they are using their phone. That’s the essence of the law.

It’s not hard to prove at all if witnessed by a Garda. They are deemed to be reliable and neutral in evidence. If a phone was in someone’s pocket or boot and they are not accessing it, then it’s not a problem and they would not come to notice.

You're right abut it being unlikely to be an issue if the phone is in the pocket, as no-one would see it. I was just pointing out that evidence of sending/recieving data traffic is not evidence of an offence.

buffalo wrote: »

You're missing this one: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2014/si/178/made/en/print

That one doesn't matter whether you're holding the phone or not. However, it's quite limited really - for instance, I don't think it includes WhatsApp messaging or browsing the internet via a dash-mounted device.

Thanks, interesting, and very dissapointing to see that it is limited to SMS/MMS - so 1990s.

The dash mounted displays in new cars is one I'm surprised there hasn't been a challenge on from safety campaigners

To me it's as big a distraction as a phone for certain functions but gives the impression that if it comes with the car it must be safe to use to some people.

Gonad

Was driving through Dun Laoire this evening and seen one of those ambulance Jeep’s driving along the coast road . Bloke driving by himself with his phone out in front of himself pissing himself laughing . Couldn’t believe it

ED E

Gonad wrote: »

Was driving through Dun Laoire this evening and seen one of those ambulance Jeep’s driving along the coast road . Bloke driving by himself with his phone out in front of himself pissing himself laughing . Couldn’t believe it

Thats an AP.

I've seen a DFB do it too. Considering they pick up the pieces I find it utterly disgusting.

AndrewJRenko

ED E wrote: »

Thats an AP.

AP?

Doctors room ghost

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

AP?

Ambulance paramedic I’d say.isnt there a law though that emergency services are allowed use phone when driving.obviously should be in relation to emergency and not on the Facebook

ED E

Advanced Paramedic - They can give stronger drugs etc than a regular EMT.

Its not illegal, but checking GAA results can feckin wait.

Thinkingaboutit

buffalo wrote: »

You're missing this one: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2014/si/178/made/en/print



That one doesn't matter whether you're holding the phone or not. However, it's quite limited really - for instance, I don't think it includes WhatsApp messaging or browsing the internet via a dash-mounted device.

I'd hope it including at least Facetime and video calls (seeing that a lot, people not even bothering to get some generic phone cradle), although I expect, that, Instagram and their like will be noticed in the law c. 2042.

buffalo

Thinkingaboutit wrote: »

I'd hope it including at least Facetime and video calls (seeing that a lot, people not even bothering to get some generic phone cradle), although I expect, that, Instagram and their like will be noticed in the law c. 2042.

The 1961 RTA covers driving with 'due care and attention', so at the very least someone can commit an offence under that, even if leaving a phone on your speedo showing a video isn't specifically against the law.