Premier League TV rights deal 2019 to 2023.

Fr Tod Umptious

According to the BBC its Sky and BT with the rights again for the main packages.

Both paying less in total it seems though.

Sky and BT win Premier League TV rights - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43052024

Harry Palmr

Who will pick up the two final packages I wonder. Could be a chance for some hateful tech giant to test the waters, though given the infrastructure required it's not an obviously attractive way in.

Cookiemunster

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Who will pick up the two final packages I wonder. Could be a chance for some hateful tech giant to test the waters, though given the infrastructure required it's not an obviously attractive way in.

Rumours that Amazon are interested.

Fr Tod Umptious

So it will be at least 2023/2024 before we see anything like individual team packages or a primary rights holder other than Sky.

That'll piss off plenty around here.

GavRedKing

Mad price for TV rights and when the other 2 packages go, it'll bring up the final total a bit.

Cookiemunster

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

So it will be at least 2023/2024 before we see anything like individual team packages or a primary rights holder other than Sky.

That'll piss off plenty around here.

It a 3 year deal so 2019/20 - 2021/22 season not 2023.

Fr Tod Umptious

Cookiemunster wrote: »

It a 3 year deal so 2019/20 - 2021/22 season not 2023.

Sure, bad counting on my part.

So 2022 is the next opportunity to reshape the model.

Tigerandahalf

It will be interesting to see who gets the last packages. Not ideal to have 3 separate broadcasters especially if the 3rd one is through broadband internet.

I think the bbc have MOTD again.

citytillidie

I think the last 2 packages are the midweek and BH ones, and the midweek ones all 10 games can be shown so it may fall to an internet provider as a test for future deals.

BT lose out big time

https://twitter.com/paolopescatore/status/963481688981626881/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.digitalspy.com%2Fdiscussion%2F2253022%2Fpremier-league-2019-2022-rights%2Fp77

Tigerandahalf

citytillidie wrote: »

I think the last 2 packages are the midweek and BH ones, and the midweek ones all 10 games can be shown so it may fall to an internet provider as a test for future deals, Amazon by the looks of it have joined the party if this is true

I watch more rugby union than anything else these days.
The rugby is now moving to just one broadcaster - BT. It is a big plus as it was a pain trying to figure out what games were carried by broadcasters, either by Sky or BT.

If it does go to Amazon people with poor broadband won't get to see games no matter whether they have the cash to pay for paytv. So if any big games or a favourite team's games end up in the streaming package you will have disgruntled people.

Streaming is the future though and maybe we are getting a taste for being able to pick your games like BT do with the Champions League.

citytillidie

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I watch more rugby union than anything else these days.
The rugby is now moving to just one broadcaster - BT. It is a big plus as it was a pain trying to figure out what games were carried by broadcasters, either by Sky or BT.

If it does go to Amazon people with poor broadband won't get to see games no matter whether they have the cash to pay for paytv. So if any big games or a favourite team's games end up in the streaming package you will have disgruntled people.

Streaming is the future though and maybe we are getting a taste for being able to pick your games like BT do with the Champions League.

That email was based on speculation so nothing confirmed yet about Amazon having it but the last 2 remaining packages are for 20 games each with some to be broadcast at the same time

Adamcp898

citytillidie wrote: »

I think the last 2 packages are the midweek and BH ones, and the midweek ones all 10 games can be shown so it may fall to an internet provider as a test for future deals.

BT lose out big time

https://twitter.com/paolopescatore/status/963481688981626881/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.digitalspy.com%2Fdiscussion%2F2253022%2Fpremier-league-2019-2022-rights%2Fp77

Exactly, the concurrent midweek fixtures broadcasting will be used to test the water for future larger "custom" packages that will allow the customer to choose their game every week. People want to choose how and when they consume their entertainment and it'll only keep going that way even for something like live sport which is the only time sensitive broadcast thing left really.

Tigerandahalf

That still leaves the broadcasting divided between multiple providers.
Even if we end up with all providers providing a streaming/casting service you still have hassle with signing upto different providers especially providers tied up with broadband deals.

Will that encourage or discourage more viewing.
Ideally you would have a single app that all broadcasting providers would have to stream through. I'm not sure if that is a possibility though.

thebaz

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

So it will be at least 2023/2024 before we see anything like individual team packages or a primary rights holder other than Sky.

That'll piss off plenty around here.

individual packages would just help destroy the league - its the relative competiveness of the league that helps make the league so marketable - further enriching Man United, Chelsea and City will destroy this relative competiveness - when the Big 6 are already so far apart from the rest.

Fr Tod Umptious

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

That still leaves the broadcasting divided between multiple providers.
Even if we end up with all providers providing a streaming/casting service you still have hassle with signing upto different providers especially providers tied up with broadband deals.

Will that encourage or discourage more viewing.
Ideally you would have a single app that all broadcasting providers would have to stream through. I'm not sure if that is a possibility though.

A single provider (Sky) was the case until about 10 years ago when the EU stuck it's oar in and decided that it was uncompetitive for single provider to own all the packages

But instead of the cousumer being allowed chose a provider for the same product (match) they split the product up, and now the customer needs multiple subscriptions if they wish to enjoy the whole lot.

Fr Tod Umptious

thebaz wrote: »

individual packages would just help destroy the league - its the relative competiveness of the league that helps make the league so marketable - further enriching Man United, Chelsea and City will destroy this relative competiveness - when the Big 6 are already so far apart from the rest.

I totally agree but there are plenty around here saying "I'd pay for a subscription if I could just chose my favorite teams games"

Fr Tod Umptious

GavRedKing wrote: »

Mad price for TV rights and when the other 2 packages go, it'll bring up the final total a bit.

What's interesting is that both Sky and BT are paying less in total.

They got a bit of a shock when they paid through the nose last time, in fact Sky had to dump other sports as a result.

They are being far more prudent this time, and if the total figure does not match the last round then thats less money for the clubs.

howiya

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I totally agree but there are plenty around here saying "I'd pay for a subscription if I could just chose my favorite teams games"

It would destroy the value of the rights though so it's unlikely to happen anytime soon. Much easier to get a couple of big companies to stump up a few billion than collect it from individual football fans.

Fr Tod Umptious

howiya wrote: »

It would destroy the value of the rights though so it's unlikely to happen anytime soon. Much easier to get a couple of big companies to stump up a few billion than collect it from individual football fans.

Not sure you fully understand.

Big companies would still buy the rights packages from the Premier League, but the packages would be for individual teams not timeslots as it is today.

The thing is the package for Man Utd or Liverpool would be sold for much higher than the package for WBA or Bournemouth.

Tigerandahalf

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

[/b]

Not sure you fully understand.

Big companies would still buy the rights packages from the Premier League, but the packages would be for individual teams not timeslots as it is today.

The thing is the package for Man Utd or Liverpool would be sold for much higher than the package for WBA or Bournemouth.

Packages like that will never be sold separately.
If anything the BT model for the Champions League is the way to go.

But then would fans stop going to games when they can be guaranteed to see their team on the telly.

From what I read BT are paying more per game while Sky are paying less per game (Sky paying 9.3m per game versus 11m per game in old deal. BT now paying 9.2m versus 7.6m in old deal).

I think BT have boxed clever. They have a good amount of sports covered in their rights and are not vulnerable to a streaming service coming in and taking the whole lot. Sky are now completely dependent on premiership rights. Lose those and they would be irrelevant.

Mr.H

Tigerandahalf wrote:

But then would fans stop going to games when they can be guaranteed to see their team on the telly.

That's a load of Tosh up be fair. All premier league games sell out (mostly) these days. It's difficult to get tickets to games as it is. People won't stop going to games.

Fr Tod Umptious

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Packages like that will never be sold separately.
If anything the BT model for the Champions League is the way to go.

But then would fans stop going to games when they can be guaranteed to see their team on the telly.

From what I read BT are paying more per game while Sky are paying less per game (Sky paying 9.3m per game versus 11m per game in old deal. BT now paying 9.2m versus 7.6m in old deal).

I think BT have boxed clever. They have a good amount of sports covered in their rights and are not vulnerable to a streaming service coming in and taking the whole lot. Sky are now completely dependent on premiership rights. Lose those and they would be irrelevant.

To show every game on TV would require a solution to the 3pm kick off issue which goes beyond the EPL or their rights holders.

Sky are already heavely dependant on the Premier League, they have lost so much over the past few years, all to pay for the last rights packages.

Even though BT paid more per game they payed less overall, maybe they were given a limit by the shareholders on how much to spend.

If the total sale of the rights is less than last time, and we have no idea about how much the last two packages will go for, then the clubs will be getting nervous if that cash cow is showing it could be on the way out.

citytillidie

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

To show every game on TV would require a solution to the 3pm kick off issue which goes beyond the EPL or their rights holders.

Sky are already heavely dependant on the Premier League, they have lost so much over the past few years, all to pay for the last rights packages.

Even though BT paid more per game they payed less overall, maybe they were given a limit by the shareholders on how much to spend.

If the total sale of the rights is less than last time, and we have no idea about how much the last two packages will go for, then the clubs will be getting nervous if that cash cow is showing it could be on the way out.

Over seas rights is still high so clubs are ok just yet

citytillidie

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

A single provider (Sky) was the case until about 10 years ago when the EU stuck it's oar in and decided that it was uncompetitive for single provider to own all the packages

But instead of the cousumer being allowed chose a provider for the same product (match) they split the product up, and now the customer needs multiple subscriptions if they wish to enjoy the whole lot.

That finished in 2013, just the premier league being greedy now

3.-The European Commission accepted commitments from the Premier League on 22 March 2006 following an investigation under Article 101 (then Article 81) of the Treaty into the joint selling of its media rights. The commitments applied for 6 years and expired at the end of the 2012/13 season.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom/latest/media/media-releases/2016/premier-league-football-rights

Fr Tod Umptious

citytillidie wrote: »

Over seas rights is still high so clubs are ok just yet

That is true, but if the domestic rights are lower, or just not rising at the same rate as they were, it does point to a slowdown in the domestic market.

And if the international market becomes more lucrative than the domestic one then expect changes if kick off times etc.

Fr Tod Umptious

citytillidie wrote: »

That finished in 2013, just the premier league being greedy now

3.-The European Commission accepted commitments from the Premier League on 22 March 2006 following an investigation under Article 101 (then Article 81) of the Treaty into the joint selling of its media rights. The commitments applied for 6 years and expired at the end of the 2012/13 season.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom/latest/media/media-releases/2016/premier-league-football-rights

Ok I did not know it had expired.

Fr Tod Umptious

Mr.H wrote: »

That's a load of Tosh up be fair. All premier league games sell out (mostly) these days. It's difficult to get tickets to games as it is. People won't stop going to games.

Not totally true.

I had a look online (can't link it right now) but it showed something like 99% of capacity filled for the likes of Man Utd down to 91% for Bournemouth.

ArmaniJeanss

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

And if the international market becomes more lucrative than the domestic one then expect changes in kick off times etc.

This isn't really feasible because of police, transport & local council input into kick off times. It's not an EPL decision to make.
Games will continue in roughly the same timeslots as they are now.

thebaz

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I had a look online (can't link it right now) but it showed something like 99% of capacity filled for the likes of Man Utd down to 91% for Bournemouth.

surely Bournmouth can fill ther 10,000 stadium ??

What is strange is seeing holes at the Eithad , when then are cruising , whether thats no shows or unsold seats , seams strange .

howiya

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

[/b]

Not sure you fully understand.

Big companies would still buy the rights packages from the Premier League, but the packages would be for individual teams not timeslots as it is today.

The thing is the package for Man Utd or Liverpool would be sold for much higher than the package for WBA or Bournemouth.

What big company would buy the package for WBA or Bournemouth? These would be left on the shelf. The way the rights are sold now guarantees that the league maximises its income. It's not going to change that.

Agent Coulson

When do the Saturday 3pm games for here go up for sale?

I wonder will Eir try and get them back after Setanta lost them.

Harry Palmr

Imagine if RTE put in an offer...ah now.

Cantona's Collars

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Imagine if RTE put in an offer...ah now.

They wouldn't pay the paltry sum they were getting the highlights for.
Anyone remember when they showed Saturday games which were deferred until 3.30. It was easier to avoid results and goal alerts back them so you could watch the game as if it was live.

Agent Coulson

Ryle Nugent putting money in soccer give over more chance of RTE sacking Ryan & Ray on the same day as Ryle helping out soccer on the National broadcaster.

Harry Palmr

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Ryle Nugent putting money in soccer give over more chance of RTE sacking Ryan & Ray on the same day as Ryle helping out soccer on the National broadcaster.

I was joking of course, that said RTE lost the rights to the Six Nations didn't they? They could do with a blockbuster deal in sport.

ERG89

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I was joking of course, that said RTE lost the rights to the Six Nations didn't they? They could do with a blockbuster deal in sport.

Ah now they haven't lost many rights down the years.
Just the premier league highlights/3 o'clock kick offs, Heineken cup, Rabo12, Rugby World Cup, 6 Nations, Half the coverage of the Champions League & International Football tournaments, International friendlies, a chunk of GAA games. Soooo basically almost everything has gone or been slashed significantly.

gimli2112

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

They wouldn't pay the paltry sum they were getting the highlights for.
Anyone remember when they showed Saturday games which were deferred until 3.30. It was easier to avoid results and goal alerts back them so you could watch the game as if it was live.

Ah yes, the days of watching the game on Aertel,. Willing Newcastle 1 Liverpool 0 to change to 1-1.

Cantona's Collars

gimli2112 wrote: »

Ah yes, the days of watching the game on Aertel,. Willing Newcastle 1 Liverpool 0 to change to 1-1.

Or the radio with the aerial out to the last balanced precariously in the only place you'd get BBC 5 live for commentary.
Some change to these days where I can watch broadcasts from virtually anywhere in the world in HD.

Fr Tod Umptious

howiya wrote: »

What big company would buy the package for WBA or Bournemouth? These would be left on the shelf. The way the rights are sold now guarantees that the league maximises its income. It's not going to change that.

No big companies will buy them, that’s the reality of it.

Q :Why did the value of the rights package decrease ?
A :Because the broadcasters bid less.

Q :Why did they bid less ?
A :Because it made financial sense, subscriptions and viewer numbers were falling.

Q :Why were subscriptions and viewer numbers falling?
A :Because people did not see it as value for money.

Q :Why did they not see it as value for money?
A :Because they could find alternative illegal streams and the market for Swansea v W.B.A on a Monday night is just not there.

Q :So what’s the solution ?
A :Give the people what they want, more of the big teams and/or an online service.

Q :How do you do that ?
A :You change the rules so from the current ones where all teams must be shown x amount of times in y amount of slots and instead favor the bigger teams. Or you sell team right individually.

And there you have it

Just like in 1992 when the big teams felt held back by the smaller 72 teams you will have a situation where the big (5 or 6 or even 3 or 4) teams feel held back by the others and they will go their own way.

Francie Barrett

I am surprised that the TV stations paid what they did quite frankly. Even the people who I would have thought were clueless about streaming are doing it these days. In fact, I don't know anyone who actually pays for BT or Sky Sports these days.

Cantona's Collars

Francie Barrett wrote: »

I am surprised that the TV stations paid what they did quite frankly. Even the people who I would have thought were clueless about streaming are doing it these days. In fact, I don't know anyone who actually pays for BT or Sky Sports these days.

You'd be amazed. A neighbour of mine has both and it costs a fortune. He didn't bother getting broadband in as the little browsing he does is via 4g on the phone. He was amazed with my set up having all games live and all the latest movies and TV shows. I cut the chord with Sky/BT a few years ago and even when I had them it was always on a special offer.

citytillidie

Francie Barrett wrote: »

I am surprised that the TV stations paid what they did quite frankly. Even the people who I would have thought were clueless about streaming are doing it these days. In fact, I don't know anyone who actually pays for BT or Sky Sports these days.

Don't forget you will get people who are not into doing down the illegal route and will pay for Sky and BT or try and get deals with them

Fr Tod Umptious

citytillidie wrote: »

Don't forget you will get people who are not into doing down the illegal route and will pay for Sky and BT or try and get deals with them

I'd fall squarely into that category.

I've no interest in paying for an illegal streaming service, but I do get half price offers every now and then from Sky or Eir sport.

PhlegmyMoses

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

You'd be amazed. A neighbour of mine has both and it costs a fortune. He didn't bother getting broadband in as the little browsing he does is via 4g on the phone. He was amazed with my set up having all games live and all the latest movies and TV shows. I cut the chord with Sky/BT a few years ago and even when I had them it was always on a special offer.

If he doesn't have broadband, the cost of Sky and BT for sports wouldn't be a whole pile more than what the average person is paying for broadband.

Fr Tod Umptious

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

This isn't really feasible because of police, transport & local council input into kick off times. It's not an EPL decision to make.
Games will continue in roughly the same timeslots as they are now.

3pm time-slots are already diminishing

From Forbes

.... The TV rights, like previous TV rights before them, don't include Saturday 3 p.m. kick offs, which are not allowed to be shown on British TV, and with more matches included in the current set of rights packages (once the remaining packages are sold) than ever before, that means less traditional Saturday 3 p.m. kick offs. With kick off times getting more and more awkward for fans, the atmosphere inside stadiums could start to suffer...

celt262

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

3pm time-slots are already diminishing

From Forbes

20.00 Friday
12.30 Saturday
15.00 Saturday X 2
17.30 Saturday
20.00 Saturday
12.30 Sunday
14.15 Sunday
16.30 Sunday
20.00 Monday

ArmaniJeanss

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

3pm time-slots are already diminishing

Which is different to your claim that we could expect different kick-offs times to suit a foreign audience. The authorities aren't going to say accept 9.30pm on a Sunday or 5pm on a Friday, they have an effective veto. Hell they even stopped UEFA using their scheduled kick off times a few seasons ago because it would have clashed with Manchester rushhour.
Midweek 7.45/8 is going to remain a standard, + the current weekend slots.

celt262 wrote: »

20.00 Friday
12.30 Saturday
15.00 Saturday X 2
17.30 Saturday
20.00 Saturday
12.30 Sunday
14.15 Sunday
16.30 Sunday
20.00 Monday

AS I understand it some of these slots are mutually exclusive, i.e., the Monday and Friday games are linked in the same package so only one will be used on a weekend, Sunday morning is usually just as a fill-in for the Europa League teams and often replaces a Saturday package game, and Saturday evening is limited to a max of 8 low profile games. We don't know yet if Saturday 17.30 and 20.00 can both be used on the same weekend.
I'd be willing to have a bet that the schedule you've suggested won't happen over the course of the deal.

KaiserGunner

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

And there you have it

Just like in 1992 when the big teams felt held back by the smaller 72 teams you will have a situation where the big (5 or 6 or even 3 or 4) teams feel held back by the others and they will go their own way.

I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you, but where are these teams going to go? A European Super League? Could see the novelty of that wearing off fairly quickly.

Muahahaha

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I totally agree but there are plenty around here saying "I'd pay for a subscription if I could just chose my favorite teams games"

Thats just the problem for me, until I can buy a product that shows me all my teams games then Im not paying and will continue to stream

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Ryle Nugent putting money in soccer give over more chance of RTE sacking Ryan & Ray on the same day as Ryle helping out soccer on the National broadcaster.

With RTE losing the rights on the Six Nations to TV3 it looks to me like Ryle Nugent has lost serious power within the RTE juggernaut. As Head of Sport he clearly had a rugby bias, even commentating on the thing "its alright lads,Im the boss, I got this..."

RTE having a female director general hasnt helped either, she doesnt seem to be interested in anything except cutting the wrong costs (content gets slashed over their 2,000 odd staff, waste in RTE is chronic but permitted) and ensuring there are more women on screen. RTEs sport output is a shambles at this stage.

howiya

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

No big companies will buy them, that’s the reality of it.

Q :Why did the value of the rights package decrease ?
A :Because the broadcasters bid less.

Q :Why did they bid less ?
A :Because it made financial sense, subscriptions and viewer numbers were falling.

Q :Why were subscriptions and viewer numbers falling?
A :Because people did not see it as value for money.

Q :Why did they not see it as value for money?
A :Because they could find alternative illegal streams and the market for Swansea v W.B.A on a Monday night is just not there.

Q :So what’s the solution ?
A :Give the people what they want, more of the big teams and/or an online service.

Q :How do you do that ?
A :You change the rules so from the current ones where all teams must be shown x amount of times in y amount of slots and instead favor the bigger teams. Or you sell team right individually.

And there you have it

Just like in 1992 when the big teams felt held back by the smaller 72 teams you will have a situation where the big (5 or 6 or even 3 or 4) teams feel held back by the others and they will go their own way.

First you tell me big companies will buy the rights, now you agree they won't.

You clearly don't get that selling the rights for the league as a whole is the only way the league can maximise its income. There's no other way around it.

There's absolutely no evidence other than a few anecdotal posts on here to suggest the people who use illegal streams currently would sign up to pay for 38 Chelsea games if they could. Logic would suggest they would continue using the same stream they use this season.

howiya

Muahahaha wrote: »

Thats just the problem for me, until I can buy a product that shows me all my teams games then Im not paying and will continue to stream

This product is created in the morning. How much would you be willing to pay for it? €5 per match?