School Shooting in Parkland, Florida

Hitman3000

Panjandrums wrote:

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Whataboutery doesn't change the fact that the sole purpose of a gun is to inflict harm or death. Although considering the idiocy of some people. Thinning the herd may not be a bad idea.

BorneTobyWilde

No words, it's just too common now. You just know he was creating his very own Saint Valentine's Day Massacre

dreamers75

Headshot wrote: »

It's such devastating news again. How many more of these do America have to go through before they wake up.

The country is really has ****ed up culture around guns and their police departments

They wont, they will never change.

Their plan is to arm teachers and teach them to fight. Whilst reddit and 4chan tell the person with the weapon to group the hostages together for maximum death......

Give everyone a gun isnt the worst option.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/selling-guns-in-the-shadow-of-the-vegas-massacre

Cookie_Monster

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Whataboutery doesn't change the fact that the sole purpose of a gun is to inflict harm or death.

you might want to tell the Bi-athletes in Korea competing right now about that :rolleyes:

TJ Mackie

Media plays a big role.

Describing these scum as "deranged", "evil", "vile", "vicious" etc. along with all the coverage they get is actually glamorising being a shooter.

Bob_Marley

Panjandrums wrote: »

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The solution is clearly to arm them, that way they can shoot one another before they die on the roads, thus reducing the high accident rate.

Panjandrums

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Hitman3000

dreamers75 wrote:

Their plan is to arm teachers and teach them to fight. Whilst reddit and 4chan tell the person with the weapon to group the hostages together for maximum death......

Think there was a news report last year or the year before, how a teacher when she was using the toilet accidentally shot herself. Yeah arm the teachers great idea.

Zaph

Panjandrums wrote: »

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A lot of things can be a weapon in the wrong hands. I could stab and kill someone with a screwdriver, so does that mean we should ban screwdrivers? Of course not, that would be absurd. However guns are weapons, so by their very nature they're designed to inflict harm, which means that your analogy is nonsense.

Hitman3000

Cookie_Monster wrote:

Interestingly gun sales and ownership rates have collapsed recently, so much so Remington has gone bankrupt this week

Watch the sales climb again. Sales after Sandy hook were impressive.

Hitman3000

Cookie_Monster wrote:

you might want to tell the Bi-athletes in Korea competing right now about that

Are they using AR 15's?

ceadaoin.

uncleoswald wrote: »

Banning vehicles would have a cataclysmic effect on society. Banning automatic guns from the general population... and a few people will have to find a new hobby.

Comparing them smacks of desperation.

Automatic weapons already are banned aren't they? At least manufacture and sale of them is. Problem is there were already hundreds of thousands in the country which are still in circulation

Homebird18

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

how about tackling the US culture, since it's the actual problem, not guns. how many other first world countries allow reasonably free access to firearms and have nothing even close to the same problems?

The issue here is Americans, not guns*

* - availability of certain rapid fire weapons undoubtedly is a problem as well though

Interestingly gun sales and ownership rates have collapsed recently, so much so Remington has gone bankrupt this week

Exactly, why do the shooters always pick soft targets like schools/churches? They want to inflict as many casualties as possible with the least amount of risk involved, they crave the attention from the media. Hi capacity magazines should be banned with out a doubt.

Ash.J.Williams

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Just put on CNN there it's pretty disgusting the coverage IMO. Parents of students on the phone live reading out the texts they are getting and saying where the kids are hiding and how many are there. The reporter acting concerned while trying to milk as much information out of them as possible. What is wrong with people? I mean, if that was my child it wouldn't occur to me to call the news. Ffs

You'd almost assume these stations have an emergency team consisting of a ground reporter and crew, a helicopter commentary team, two anchors back at the studio and a social media team ready to dispatch to the latest shooting

Hitman3000

Panjandrums wrote:

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Enlighten me how many target or competition guns were used to carry out mass shootings in the US since 2013. The target guns they use in the Olympics or sport shooting are not automatic assault rifles. Nice try though.

E mac

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/13/remington-bankruptcy-guns-trump-slump-sales

Obama= gun sales surge
Trump = gun sales decline....

Homebird18

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Enlighten me how many target or competition guns were used to carry out mass shootings in the US since 2013. The target guns they use in the Olympics or sport shooting are not automatic assault rifles. Nice try though.

Why are you fixated on automatic weapons? Mass shootings involving automatic weapons account for a very small percentage of overall gun murders in the US? They dont help of course.

Hitman3000

Homebird18 wrote:

Why are you fixated on automatic weapons? Mass shootings involving automatic weapons account for a very small percentage of overall gun murders in the US? They dont help of course.

I think you will find it is quite hard to kill a great number of people with a single action weapon. No fixation tbh, just curious as to why civilians need access to military grade weaponry? Like hunting ducks with an M16 or AR15 seems a bit extreme.

Panjandrums

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Hitman3000

Panjandrums wrote:

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You mean the sales of new automatics is banned. The point about single shot is the capacity to kill large numbers of people.
I've served in the military and I can't think of any situation where civilians need to or should have access to auto or semi auto weaponry. As I said though a part of me is happy to see some idiots culled from the herd.

Homebird18

Hitman3000 wrote: »

I think you will find it is quite hard to kill a great number of people with a single action weapon. No fixation tbh, just curious as to why civilians need access to military grade weaponry? Like hunting ducks with an M16 or AR15 seems a bit extreme.

I agree 100% that there is no need for a civilian to own a fully functioning automatic weapon. I could be wrong but the weapon used in the shooting sounds semi auto to me, so there you go its not that hard to inflict multiple casulties, i still believe high volume mahazines need to be addressed.

Cookie_Monster

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Whataboutery doesn't change the fact that the sole purpose of a gun is to inflict harm or death. Although considering the idiocy of some people. Thinning the herd may not be a bad idea.

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Are they using AR 15's?

No, but I'm sure you knew that. But what does that have to do with anything, you stated the sole purpose of a gun is to inflict harm or death, are you just back tracking to automatic weapons now?

Guns have multiple purposes, most of them designed to kill animals or indeed people, but not all, no more than all knives or drugs being designed solely to inflict harm or death

Hitman3000

Homebird18 wrote:

I agree 100% that there is no need for a civilian to own a fully functioning automatic weapon. I could be wrong but the weapon used in the shooting sounds semi auto to me, so there you go its not that hard to inflict multiple casulties, i still believe high volume mahazines need to be addressed.

One of the weapons allegedly used was an AR 15 it can fire 12 to 15 rounds a minute similar to the M16.

Hitman3000

Cookie_Monster wrote:

Guns have multiple purposes, most of them designed to kill animals or indeed people, but not all, no more than all knives or drugs being designed solely to inflict harm or death

Guns were invented for the sole purpose of killing, target pistols and sport rifles are a different matter. I'm sure you can inform me how many mass killings have been carried out by bearers of either target pistols or sport rifles such as they are using in the winter Olympics?

Cookie_Monster

E mac wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/13/remington-bankruptcy-guns-trump-slump-sales
Obama= gun sales surge
Trump = gun sales decline....

Offers an insight into the cultural problem. Any talk of bans or restrictions and people go mental and buy stockpiles of them for no real reason other than "you can't take them away from me now", no threat of removing them and people go back to not really caring too much and not buying guns for no reason - like most countries.

It's easy to buy a gun over here in NZ, or Aus for example, as long as you have a reason. To get a permit is easy, as long as you have a reason. Reasons being hunting, pest control or target shooting. Prove x,y and z and you get your permit. It has the tiny edge of difficulty which people who don't want or need one don't bother but it still stupidly simple and easy that if you want one you can get one. Don't read about mass shootings every other day from this part of the world, do you?

Hitman3000

Not at all, it wasn't me that mentioned the Olympics. Not me dear boy engaged in whataboutery. First it was bikes and cars then the Olympics.....

Homebird18

Hitman3000 wrote: »

One of the weapons allegedly used was an AR 15 it can fire 12 to 15 rounds a minute similar to the M16.

I assume you mean 12 to 15 a second. Even still the shots in the videos are not from an automatic weapon, if you served your time you will know how difficult it is to get an automatic weapon to fire single bursts as heard in the videos. I fired an AR15 in Florida not to long ago but it was chambered to fire 9mm rounds at a semi rate so there's another possibility.

Redo91

Panjandrums wrote: »

The use of a motorized vehicle can be changed to inflict harm as we found out in Nice.
Just like the use of a gun can change, sport and leisure.

Are you from Merica by any chance?!

Cookie_Monster

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Guns were invented for the sole purpose of killing, target pistols and sport rifles are a different matter.

how and why given you said the sole purpose of a gun is to inflict harm or death?
Clearly it's not the sole purpose, so stop being obtuse about it.

BorneTobyWilde

CNN love showing the footage from inside. Who wants or needs to see that.

Hitman3000

Homebird18 wrote:

I assume you mean 12 to 15 a second. Even still the shots in the videos are not from an automatic weapon, if you served your time you will know how difficult it is to get an automatic weapon to fire single bursts as heard in the videos. I fired an AR15 in Florida not to long ago but it was chambered to fire 9mm rounds at a semi rate so there's another possibility.

You assume wrong. Sustained fire is 12 to 15 a minute it's not fully auto. It still begs the question of need for a civilian population to access to what is essentially a military weapon.

joeysoap

Panjandrums wrote: »

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When you say here, where do you mean?

Hitman3000

Cookie_Monster wrote:

how and why given you said the sole purpose of a gun is to inflict harm or death? Clearly it's not the sole purpose, so stop being obtuse about it.

Guns were designed at their inception to kill or maim, target pistols etc are a variation of the main concept. Nothing obtuse at all. Again deal with my question how many mass shootings can be attributed to bearers of target pistols or target rifles?

Panjandrums

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Hitman3000

Homebird18 wrote:

I assume you mean 12 to 15 a second. Even still the shots in the videos are not from an automatic weapon, if you served your time you will know how difficult it is to get an automatic weapon to fire single bursts as heard in the videos. I fired an AR15 in Florida not to long ago but it was chambered to fire 9mm rounds at a semi rate so there's another possibility.

Sorry to post your comment again. The Irish army has the Steyr Aug configured for single shot eventhough it is automatic( one of several weapons I trained with). Achieved by a button incorporated in the trigger so not hard at all as you suggest.

Hitman3000

joeysoap wrote:

When you say here, where do you mean?

Murica

Homebird18

Hitman3000 wrote: »

You assume wrong. Sustained fire is 12 to 15 a minute it's not fully auto. It still begs the question of need for a civilian population to access to what is essentially a military weapon.

Sustained fire is a compromise between saving ammo and keeping aimed fire on a target, we are talking about a mass shooter here whos primary goal is to cause as many casualties as possible not pick out his targets.

Tokyo

Step 1: Active shooter
Step 2: Injury/death listing
Step 3: Prayers
Step 4: Outrage
Step 5: "Guns aren't the problem"
Step 6: Meaningless argument without any legislative change
Step 7: Reporting peters off

Step 1: Active shooter...

Hitman3000

Panjandrums wrote:

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Thanks for answering a question I didn't ask. I asked in mass shootings since 2013. Btw being in the military only makes wonder why civilians need access to military grade weapons and the use of same.

Homebird18

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Sorry to post your comment again. The Irish army has the Steyr Aug configured for single shot eventhough it is automatic( one of several weapons I trained with). Achieved by a button incorporated in the trigger so not hard at all as you suggest.

Ok but again why would the shooter not engage the ALO and use the weapon on full auto as opposed to semi auto as heard in the video?

Panjandrums

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Hitman3000

Homebird18 wrote:

Ok but again why would the shooter not engage the ALO and use the weapon on full auto as opposed to semi auto as heard in the video?

Maybe he didn't know how to switch over? I have seen guys not able to release the safety when under pressure. Can't say I want to wonder too much as to the reasoning of this idiot or his actions. Happily he lives in the states along with most other nut jobs with access to these type of weapons and I don't.

pleas advice

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Interestingly gun sales and ownership rates have collapsed recently, so much so Remington has gone bankrupt this week

oh no, it'll be Magnum PI next...

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

you might want to tell the Bi-athletes in Korea competing right now about that :rolleyes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_patrol

Mutant z

Lowlife scum.

Panjandrums

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Cookie_Monster

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Nothing obtuse at all. Again deal with my question how many mass shootings can be attributed to bearers of target pistols or target rifles?

I'd guess at none, so what does that have to do with anything. You stated the sole purpose of a gun is to inflict harm or death, explain to me how you see an Olympic rifle's only purpose being to harm or kill given you are obvious aware of what it is actually used for.

Manic Moran

Noveight wrote: »

Panjandrums wrote: »

Nice was an accident? And other terrorist acts using vehicles were accidents?

Of the total use of motor vehicles, what percentage are used for crime?

Of the total use of guns, what percentage are used for crime?

Throw an estimate on those two numbers, compare them and then you might see why you're being ridiculous.

Damned iPad ate my response, after spending a half-hour looking it up. I thought it was worth checking, as I don’t recall anyone ever doing it before. The most surprising result I got is that cars are used for suicide about as often as firearms are (Carbon monoxide, usually). There are about as many cars as firearms in the US, in total they kill about as many people. (Cars kill more if you count the suicides)

So, the short version is that the FBI indicates some 8,000 murders by firearm, and an additional 285,000 “non fatal victimizations” with a firearm, which includes about 128,000 robberies, and 135,000 aggravated assaults. So, somewhere under a half-million. https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv15.pdf

Only 300 folks were murdered by car, plus 11,000 or so DUI deaths. Probably a number of accidents were caused by improper lane changes, illegal u-turns, texting while driving, and whatever other “crimes”, (3,500for distracted driving), (basically idiot driving), but we’ll ignore those. To my astonishment, both Bureau of Transportation and MADD indicate some 110million incidents of DUI in the US a year, with 1.1 million arrests. I have been unable offhand to find any statistic showing crimes in which a vehicle was an integral part (eg getaway car for a robbery, kidnapping, used to transport drugs, or used in a burglary to transport ill-gotten goods), that sort of thing. I would not be surprised to discover a reasonably large percentage of firearms crimes also involved a vehicle as a result, plus add those not involving a firearm.

So the bottom line seems to be that cars are used for crimes more often in general, and used to put people at risk in commission of a crime more often. I learn something.

The consensus for Remington’s bankruptcy in the firearms community isn’t that there is a downturn in demand for rifles, it’s that they have failed to update their product line and provide firearms which the consumer wants.

Hitman3000

Panjandrums wrote:

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Yet you haven't contradicted me or answered my question about mass killings with automatic or semiautomatic weapons since 2013 btw the AR 15 that was used in this killing a similar weapon or variant has been used in 9 other mass killings. It was you who brought up the topic of cars and bikes in China, and you want to accuse me of nonsense .......

Hitman3000

Cookie_Monster wrote:

I'd guess at none, so what does that have to do with anything. You stated the sole purpose of a gun is to inflict harm or death, explain to me how you see an Olympic rifle's only purpose being to harm or kill given you are obvious aware of what it is actually used for.

I have addressed you several times about the Olympics and the weapons used I asked you a question so far you have refused to answer. I can only assume it would highlight a level of ignorance if you did. Maybe you right in avoiding it.

The Backwards Man

I like the USA, believe it or not, but Jesus it is one fcuked up country.