Are there any differences between having a religion and going to church, to a cult?

Andy From Sligo

Grayson wrote: »

I think the big difference between a religion and a cult is that a cult will generally involve cutting yourself off from non believers.

Besides that they're nearly identical.

id say maybe the other cults try to go out of their ways to get people to join them

apart from Jehova's whitnesses (who called round to my house last week funnily enough trying to entice me to join with them) not normally do say catholics or COI go door to door recruiting ... but (unless I am paranoid) there have been some funny looks from those in the village that go to church reguarly and I feel some of them feel more people should go to church ... er because they go to church. Some church goers can be quite clicky as well. - one particualar event i went to all the ones on the table were church goers and the other people who didnt go to church were sitting on another table and there wasnt much interaction .. again, maybe I am looking too much into it. Maybe all the church goers all knew eachother and thats why they stuck together on one table

wyf437gn6btzue

I can remember making my communion and at that time the mass attendance was dropping off a cliff in the local area so they made this initiative that all the kids making their communion had to attend mass every week for the 4 or 5 months on the lead up and right something they learned about mass the following monday morning. If you didnt go to the masses or didnt have anything to write you got a bollocking off the teacher.

My spirituality was on a downhill slant after that lot of nonsense

Omackeral

If God exists, he's a geebag. Giving kids cancer and all. You can come back and say ''oh but that's because Man sinned''. Well God made Man. ''Oh but he gave us free will''. Well, if he's all knowing and sh*t, he'd have seen what would happen. Doesn't really make sense does it?

If God was against homosexuality, he wouldn't have made people gay. People don't choose to be gay. They're made that way. Doesn't really make sense does it?

If a married woman in your town fell pregnant and exclaimed an angel of God came down and impregnated her, it would be a Mental Hospital for her, not the start of a worldwide religion. Doesn't really make sense does it?

Jesus, a bloke from the Middle East being a 6 foot 2 white man with a surfer's body doesn't really make sense does it? Then again, him dying and respawning in a cave doesn't either. Or him being his own da, for that matter.

Grayson

Omackeral wrote: »

If God was against homosexuality, he wouldn't have made people gay. People don't choose to be gay. They're made that way. Doesn't really make sense does it

He shouldn't have located the male g spot where he did either.

Cheerful Spring

I never had a priest calling to my house telling me I better go to mass or else. We can go Mass or leave it, for that reason the Catholic Church is not harmful, at least for me. If you join a cult how easy is to get away from it and would they follow you to come back? The Muslim religion definitely more backwards than Catholicism today. Koran does not object to rape, torture and killing when fighting your enemy. One of the christen commitments says 'thou shall not kill, so there definitely a difference in teaching. Of course, that commandment did not stop the Crusades either so there is that.

Religion existed before Christianity, it was just paganism. I don't think Religion will ever die off. We have to know every secret of the universe for that to happen.

Andy From Sligo

Grayson wrote: »

Even when I was a kid, brought up a Catholic, I thought that it was crazy that someone would walk around lough derg or climb Croagh Patrick in bare feet.

crazy is right! - if it werent done in the name of religion they would have been sectioned!

Andy From Sligo

Sunny Ripe Posy wrote: »

I can remember making my communion and at that time the mass attendance was dropping off a cliff in the local area so they made this initiative that all the kids making their communion had to attend mass every week for the 4 or 5 months on the lead up and right something they learned about mass the following monday morning. If you didnt go to the masses or didnt have anything to write you got a bollocking off the teacher.

My spirituality was on a downhill slant after that lot of nonsense

nice! - so if you (not meaning you personally) didnt do it you had it beat into you ..

Andy From Sligo

Omackeral wrote: »

If God exists, he's a geebag. Giving kids cancer and all. You can come back and say ''oh but that's because Man sinned''. Well God made Man. ''Oh but he gave us free will''. Well, if he's all knowing and sh*t, he'd have seen what would happen. Doesn't really make sense does it?

If God was against homosexuality, he wouldn't have made people gay. People don't choose to be gay. They're made that way. Doesn't really make sense does it?

If a married woman in your town fell pregnant and exclaimed an angel of God came down and impregnated her, it would be a Mental Hospital for her, not the start of a worldwide religion. Doesn't really make sense does it?

Jesus, a bloke from the Middle East being a 6 foot 2 white man with a surfer's body doesn't really make sense does it? Then again, him dying and respawning in a cave doesn't either. Or him being his own da, for that matter.

makes total sense to me - if i ever start in believing in something where abouts do you preach sir?

Berserker

Oh, another religion equals cult thread. Quite a number of differences to be honest. I've taken time to read up on it and I'd recommend
Cults in Our Midst to anyone who really wants to understand that difference. Cults are a really complex subject.

Omackeral wrote: »

If a married woman in your town fell pregnant and exclaimed an angel of God came down and impregnated her, it would be a Mental Hospital for her, not the start of a worldwide religion. Doesn't really make sense does it?

You do understand that lots of Christians don't believe that.

Edit: If people really want a proper comparison of cults v religions, do let me know. It'll take time to write, so I don't want to do it unless people are really interested in reading it.

Deusexmachina

Omackeral wrote: »

If God exists, he's a geebag. Giving kids cancer and all. You can come back and say ''oh but that's because Man sinned''. Well God made Man. ''Oh but he gave us free will''. Well, if he's all knowing and sh*t, he'd have seen what would happen. Doesn't really make sense does it?

If God was against homosexuality, he wouldn't have made people gay. People don't choose to be gay. They're made that way. Doesn't really make sense does it?

If a married woman in your town fell pregnant and exclaimed an angel of God came down and impregnated her, it would be a Mental Hospital for her, not the start of a worldwide religion. Doesn't really make sense does it?

Jesus, a bloke from the Middle East being a 6 foot 2 white man with a surfer's body doesn't really make sense does it? Then again, him dying and respawning in a cave doesn't either. Or him being his own da, for that matter.

Is this the level of debate on boards? If god exists he’s a geebag?

Charmeleon

Omackeral wrote: »

If God exists, he's a geebag. Giving kids cancer and all. You can come back and say ''oh but that's because Man sinned''. Well God made Man. ''Oh but he gave us free will''. Well, if he's all knowing and sh*t, he'd have seen what would happen. Doesn't really make sense does it?

Well, when I was learning about Christianity as a young atheist you could still see the main point of the story of Jesus. ‘God’ sent his own son into the world who only did good, then to be betrayed by one of his closest friends, beaten, humiliated, tortured and put to death in an even more excruciatingly brutal fashion than the thieves and murderers condemned to die beside him. Gods way of saying without suffering there is no meaning to life. And he was prepared to take his fair share of it to demonstrate he meant it.

Cheerful Spring

Omackeral wrote: »

If God exists, he's a geebag. Giving kids cancer and all. You can come back and say ''oh but that's because Man sinned''. Well God made Man. ''Oh but he gave us free will''. Well, if he's all knowing and sh*t, he'd have seen what would happen. Doesn't really make sense does it?

If God was against homosexuality, he wouldn't have made people gay. People don't choose to be gay. They're made that way. Doesn't really make sense does it?

If a married woman in your town fell pregnant and exclaimed an angel of God came down and impregnated her, it would be a Mental Hospital for her, not the start of a worldwide religion. Doesn't really make sense does it?

Jesus, a bloke from the Middle East being a 6 foot 2 white man with a surfer's body doesn't really make sense does it? Then again, him dying and respawning in a cave doesn't either. Or him being his own da, for that matter.

I think the stigma stems from Adam and Eve. God made woman and man to have sexual intercourse and breed. A gay man or woman can not do this with their partners. Religion is old and does take into account changes in society. Today a man and woman who are gay can adopt today and raise kids perfectly fine. Religion just did not think that far ahead.

Near death, experiences do occur. Maybe Jesus was not even dead he just seemed to be that way?. There are stories about Jesus heading to India after he rose from the dead, interesting stuff the Church never followed up on.

Guy:Incognito

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Is this the level of debate on boards? If god exists he’s a geebag?

Do you prefer cnut?

Andy From Sligo

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I never had a priest calling to my house telling me I better go to mass or else. We can go Mass or leave it, for that reason the Catholic Church is not harmful.....

I dont know - maybe not by force, but mentally? (especially if growing up with religion and mass at the forefront of your every day life) I would say thats a pretty strong thing to leave totally

FishOnABike

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

It's easy if you try.

No hell below us
Above us only sky
...

tritium

Olivia Gifted Trout wrote: »

As a cult is "a social group defined by its religious, spiritual, or philosophical beliefs, or its common interest in a particular personality, object or goal" then the difference with a religion is purely semantics. The early Christian church was referred to as a cult. It's just terminology.

True, but under that definition you can extend the question further so and probably ask what’s the difference between many political ideologies and a cult? Socialism, nationalism, feminism, and a stack of other organized or semi organized isms all meet and the threshold. Actually lots of groupings that would criticize organized religions as a cult are themselves meeting the threshold to be considered cults....

Ipso

Charmeleon wrote: »

Well, when I was learning about Christianity as a young atheist you could still see the main point of the story of Jesus. ‘God’ sent his own son into the world who only did good, then to be betrayed by one of his closest friends, beaten, humiliated, tortured and put to death in an even more excruciatingly brutal fashion than the thieves and murderers condemned to die beside him. Gods way of saying without suffering there is no meaning to life. And he was prepared to take his fair share of it to demonstrate he meant it.

I thought the suffering was to save us, and wasn't he really saving us form himself?
Then there's the idea that people can't be saved without accepting Jesus, but God only sent one son to a very small place in the world. What about all the people before that and all the people in other parts of the world who died without getting the chance to hear about Jesus. Are they damned for eternity?

Berserker

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I dont know - maybe not by force, but mentally? (especially if growing up with religion and mass at the forefront of your every day life) I would say thats a pretty strong thing to leave totally

The fall in numbers attending mass on a regular basis and the rise in the number of people who categorize themselves as atheist, on the census for example, would suggest that it isn't that difficult to leave it. People who escape from cults and you have to escape from them, spend years trying to deal with the trauma of being part of a cult. They also have to deal with harassment from the cult itself in many cases. Most cults have drills to try and reconnect with defectors.

Charmeleon

Ipso wrote: »

I thought the suffering was to save us, and wasn't he really saving us form himself?
Then there's the idea that people can't be saved without accepting Jesus, but God only sent one son to a very small place in the world. What about all the people before that and all the people in other parts of the world who died without getting the chance to hear about Jesus. Are they damned for eternity?

I’m not a theologian or a believer so I can’t answer that really, but either way if Jesus was sent to save us the grotesque death sentence was overkill. There’s a message there that God was willing to face the worst fates we usually imagine, betrayal, public humiliation, torture and execution, he could have stepped in and stopped the torture but refused to take the easy way out even as his own flesh and blood pleaded for it to end.

You also have to understand that all religions are exclusive, people can only benefit if they invest in it.

Omackeral

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Is this the level of debate on boards? If god exists he’s a geebag?

Letting kids die from painful cancer is the height of geebaggery is it not?

HappyAsLarE

The intellectual abandonment of God may limit the passing down of moral values to future generations.

To be atheist and to intellectually put belief in God to scientific scrutiny is a lazy and shallow thought process.

God is the Self. He is our collective consciousness. Unfortunately I don’t think the clergy people even get that. What hope have we.

HappyAsLarE

Charmeleon wrote: »

I’m not a theologian or a believer so I can’t answer that really, but either way if Jesus was sent to save us the grotesque death sentence was overkill. There’s a message there that God was willing to face the worst fates we usually imagine, betrayal, public humiliation, torture and execution, he could have stepped in and stopped the torture but refused to take the easy way out even as his own flesh and blood pleaded for it to end.

You also have to understand that all religions are exclusive, people can only benefit if they invest in it.

You will not be given a more important lesson in life than the crucifixion of “Jesus”. It is the ultimate sacrifice. An archetypical tradegy. But a mind can resurrect from such suffering.

Andy From Sligo

Berserker wrote: »

The fall in numbers attending mass on a regular basis and the rise in the number of people who categorize themselves as atheist, on the census for example, would suggest that it isn't that difficult to leave it. People who escape from cults and you have to escape from them, spend years trying to deal with the trauma of being part of a cult. They also have to deal with harassment from the cult itself in many cases. Most cults have drills to try and reconnect with defectors.

for the declining numbers i wonder what the main reasons are?
historic child abuse in the church?
church not modernising and moving with the times?
just that religion is not as important to people as it used to be?
or is it just simply that people are more busier today and just dont have time for church in their lives or have time to go to mass reguarly?

would be fascinating to find out the biggest reason for the decline on the whole

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Omackeral wrote: »

If God exists, he's a geebag. Giving kids cancer and all. You can come back and say ''oh but that's because Man sinned''. Well God made Man. ''Oh but he gave us free will''. Well, if he's all knowing and sh*t, he'd have seen what would happen. Doesn't really make sense does it?

If God was against homosexuality, he wouldn't have made people gay. People don't choose to be gay. They're made that way. Doesn't really make sense does it?

If a married woman in your town fell pregnant and exclaimed an angel of God came down and impregnated her, it would be a Mental Hospital for her, not the start of a worldwide religion. Doesn't really make sense does it?

Jesus, a bloke from the Middle East being a 6 foot 2 white man with a surfer's body doesn't really make sense does it? Then again, him dying and respawning in a cave doesn't either. Or him being his own da, for that matter.

How do you know there's no reason for kids getting cancer? I mean, if we're going on the presumption that God exists, then we have to factor in some kind of possible reasoning for this beyond our understanding.

As for the rest of your points, that's all religion: not God. Religion's against homosexuality, not God. Religion created the story of the Immaculate Conception, not God. And religion is responsible for the image of Jesus that is widely circulated, not God.

Charmeleon

Omackeral wrote: »

Letting kids die from painful cancer is the height of geebaggery is it not?

I guess god as your celestial servant/surgical consultant is not exactly the point, there’s no meaning and awe in everyone having their own personal Jim’ll Fixit. I guess the point is that suffering is inevitable but if you accept that you can still find meaning and purpose in your life along with some character, principles and humility. People with these traits are easier to respect, get along with and form lifelong partnerships with than spoiled, entitled brats that get Daddy to fix every pain and obstacle in their way.

Oldtree

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

We can go Mass or leave it, for that reason the Catholic Church is not harmful, at least for me. If you join a cult how easy is to get away from it and would they follow you to come back?

On that particular point. We seem to be having extremely difficulties extracting the Catholic Church from the fabric of our constitution, not to mention out schooling.

Not easy to get away from is it?

Omackeral

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

How do you know there's no reason for kids getting cancer? I mean, if we're going on the presumption that God exists, then we have to factor in some kind of possible reasoning for this beyond our understanding.

falinn merking

Charmeleon wrote: »

I guess god as your celestial servant/surgical consultant is not exactly the point, there’s no meaning and awe in everyone having their own personal Jim’ll Fixit. I guess the point is that suffering is inevitable but if you accept that you can still find meaning and purpose in your life along with some character, principles and humility. People with these traits are easier to respect, get along with and form lifelong partnerships with than spoiled, entitled brats that get Daddy to fix every pain and obstacle in their way.

I decided to have a bit of fun with this thread in the first few pages pretending to be a hardcore Bible nut.
I did it because these threads get on my nerves but I could not put into words why.

Your post has just put it into words and I think society turing it's back on Christian thinking is very sad and worrying for the reasons you state.

Great post well done.:)

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Omackeral wrote: »

Perhaps Steve grows up to be a tyrant ten times worse than Hitler?

Or Steve's spirit is much more in demand in the next plane of existence where we could be the only one who can save it?

Prove me wrong!

Berserker

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

for the declining numbers i wonder what the main reasons are?
a - historic child abuse in the church?
b - church not modernising and moving with the times?
c - just that religion is not as important to people as it used to be?
d - or is it just simply that people are more busier today and just dont have time for church in their lives or have time to go to mass reguarly?

would be fascinating to find out the biggest reason for the decline on the whole

That's a really interesting question and I think that 'd' is the biggest reason. Times have changed and we live in a very fast-paced, consumer driven world, nowadays. In the past, Sunday was a day of rest, a day off work for the vast majority of people. Nowadays, it's just another day for a lot of people and those of us who don't work on a Sunday are busy with shopping or entertainment of some form or another. Religion just become another thing to do for a lot of people and they just don't have time to go to church.