Irish Language Act in the North: Have Sinn Fein scored a major own goal?

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

Like so many things in politics, it all depends on your perspective.

If you take the view that Sinn Fein should hurl from the ditch and pontificate from the high moral ground, without actually having to make any decisions, then there wasn't an own goal.

If you take the view that it is better for Sinn Fein to actually be in government and to take part in the devolved government, be able to have a say on Brexit from a position of authority, and take the image of power back from the DUP in Westminister, then yes, it was an own goal.

Funny that you would mention perspective, because you seem to have missed a rather important aspect which i mentioned rather specifically in the post you quoted.

and wanted to be introduced by all the other major party's in the north?

What you're suggesting is that all other party's (not just Sinn Fein) should suck it up, and let one other party have the final say in things.

That is not how democracy works.

I can only imagine the outrage from you if all the other party's were forced to reluctantly go along with something only Sinn Fein wanted/didn't want "for the greater good".

The days of the DUP riding roughshod over everyone else's wishes are over, and I would have expected anyone that supports fairness and democracy to support that.

Especially constitutional nationalists.

But then again, perspective.

blanch152

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Funny that you would mention perspective, because you seem to have missed a rather important aspect which i mentioned rather specifically in the post you quoted.



What you're suggesting is that all other party's (not just Sinn Fein) should suck it up, and let one other party have the final say in things.

That is not how democracy works.

I can only imagine the outrage from you if all the other party's were forced to reluctantly go along with something only Sinn Fein wanted/didn't want "for the greater good".

The days of the DUP riding roughshod over everyone else's wishes are over, and I would have expected anyone that supports fairness and democracy to support that.

Especially constitutional nationalists.

But then again, perspective.

None of that addresses the points I made. If your number one objective is to stop Brexit or lessen the effects, then you pay whatever price necessary to get an Executive in place that gives you the authority to speak on the issue. Otherwise, you continue to sit on your hands, hurling from the ditch and pontificating from the high moral ground - but nobody will listen to you.

LuckyLloyd

blanch152 wrote: »

Like so many things in politics, it all depends on your perspective.

If you take the view that Sinn Fein should hurl from the ditch and pontificate from the high moral ground, without actually having to make any decisions, then there wasn't an own goal.

If you take the view that it is better for Sinn Fein to actually be in government and to take part in the devolved government, be able to have a say on Brexit from a position of authority, and take the image of power back from the DUP in Westminister, then yes, it was an own goal.

That's a ridiculous post in so many ways. This is so much simpler than 'hurling from the ditch', 'pontificating', 'not making decisions', 'having a say on Brexit from a position of authority' and whatever else you're having. There was an agreement. The agreement was reneged upon. What else can you do but hold the reneging party to account?

In anycase, SF's interests on Brexit (and the interests of all parties in the Dail) are being adequately represented by the government currently. In that sense there is no loss being suffered currently. The 'image of power' thing - again, it is excellent from SF's perspective for the DUP to be where they are on Brexit as they will fully own all of the negative consequences that are coming. Moreover, if you consider SF's ultimate objective - having the devolved institutions currently not in session due to DUP intransigence is a fine situation for SF given the focus on those institutions and the concept of the Northern Statelet.

Ultimately, your post is desperately reaching, twisting and contorting to see the negatives for SF. It's more hoping and wishing than attempting to analyse anything.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

None of that addresses the points I made. If your number one objective is to stop Brexit or lessen the effects, then you pay whatever price necessary to get an Executive in place that gives you the authority to speak on the issue. Otherwise, you continue to sit on your hands, hurling from the ditch and pontificating from the high moral ground - but nobody will listen to you.

David Davis seems to think they are leading the Irish government on Brexit.

Two agreements on an ILA have now been welched on. One by the British Government at St Andrew's and one at the talks to get the institutions up and running again.


For a constitutional nationalist to blame SF for the absence of an executive is incredible tbh.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

David Davis seems to think they are leading the Irish government on Brexit.

Two agreements on an ILA have now been welched on. One by the British Government at St Andrew's and one at the talks to get the institutions up and running again.


For a constitutional nationalist to blame SF for the absence of an executive is incredible tbh.

I am not blaming SF for the absence of an executive, there are plenty of people up there at fault, in their typical blunt approach.

However, what I am saying is that there is an opportunity for Sinn Fein to drop their demands, get the Assembly up and running, and bring a domestic Northern Ireland focus to what is happening with Brexit. Unfortunately, an ILA has greater importance to them than Brexit.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

I am not blaming SF for the absence of an executive, there are plenty of people up there at fault, in their typical blunt approach.

However, what I am saying is that there is an opportunity for Sinn Fein to drop their demands, get the Assembly up and running, and bring a domestic Northern Ireland focus to what is happening with Brexit. Unfortunately, an ILA has greater importance to them than Brexit.

How about, the DUP dropping their blockades to equality in a number of key areas?

Problem solved overnight and northern Ireland is a better place for all.

Would that not be an inherently more natural and comfortable stance for a constitutional nationalist to have?

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How about, the DUP dropping their blockades to equality in a number of key areas?

Problem solved overnight and northern Ireland is a better place for all.

Would that not be an inherently more natural and comfortable stance for a constitutional nationalist to have?

The DUP have Westminister, don't need the Assembly, they are happy that there is no domestic limelight shining on their Brexit policies, why would they want to restore the Assembly? There is nothing to be gained from them, so why would I waste my time?

On the other hand, there is a lot to be gained by nationalists, particularly in relation to Brexit, the most important issue for Northern Ireland since the GFA. Appealing to that logic of self-interest seems to be the correct option.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

The DUP have Westminister, don't need the Assembly, they are happy that there is no domestic limelight shining on their Brexit policies, why would they want to restore the Assembly? There is nothing to be gained from them, so why would I waste my time?

On the other hand, there is a lot to be gained by nationalists, particularly in relation to Brexit, the most important issue for Northern Ireland since the GFA. Appealing to that logic of self-interest seems to be the correct option.

But SF are happy with the all island approach to Brexit, just like you say the DUP are happy in Westminster.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

I am not blaming SF for the absence of an executive, there are plenty of people up there at fault, in their typical blunt approach.

However, what I am saying is that there is an opportunity for Sinn Fein to drop their demands, get the Assembly up and running, and bring a domestic Northern Ireland focus to what is happening with Brexit. Unfortunately, an ILA has greater importance to them than Brexit.

Once again, and has been pointed out numerous times, it isn't solely the wishes of SF to have an Irish language act, it is something all of the main party's want, and something the dup had agreed upon, but reneged upon.

So, in essence what you're doing is suggesting that everyone else should be dancing to the dups tune, and letting them ride roughshod over everyone else for the greater good.

Am I missing anything here?

Brendan Bendar

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Once again, and has been pointed out numerous times, it isn't solely the wishes of SF to have an Irish language act, it is something all of the main party's want, and something the dup had agreed upon, but reneged upon.

So, in essence what you're doing is suggesting that everyone else should be dancing to the dups tune, and letting them ride roughshod over everyone else for the greater good.

Am I missing anything here?

I have heard absolutely zero from any other party ref. the ILA.

That should tell us something on this issue surely.

McMurphy

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I have heard absolutely zero from any other party ref. the ILA.

Did you use Google

This story is from 23hrs ago.....

SDLP confirms support for Irish Language Act at party conference

SDLP has reiterated its support for the Irish language and a rights based Irish language act.

Members voted for a motion that supports the establishment of a rights based Irish Language Act, which would include the establishment of the Office of an Independent Irish Language Commissioner.

The motion was proposed by Mid Ulster MLA, Patsy McGlone and seconded by his colleague Councillor Martin Kearney.

Alliance party.

Alliance Party leader Naomi Long has called on the British government to inject momentum in a new Stormont talks process after Easter as she warned the “window of opportunity” to get a deal is closing.

More than 14 months after devolved government in Northern Ireland collapsed and five phases of talks later there is little trust left between the DUP and Sinn Féin.

At the Alliance conference in the Stormont Hotel on Saturday, Ms Long said its new Next Steps Forward proposals document is a genuine attempt to create space politically in which broader agreement is possible and an Executive can be formed.

Proposals in it include: Westminster reforming the petition of concern veto mechanism and legislating on the contentious issues of same sex marriage, legacy and an Irish language Act; multi-party talks led by a independent facilitator, and the convening of the British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference.

That should tell us something on this issue surely.

It does indeed.

Now what?

LuckyLloyd

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I have heard absolutely zero from any other party ref. the ILA.

That should tell us something on this issue surely.

Ah come on, this is a terrible post. Do you have any familiarity with this issue at all?

charlie14

blanch152 wrote: »

I am not blaming SF for the absence of an executive, there are plenty of people up there at fault, in their typical blunt approach.

However, what I am saying is that there is an opportunity for Sinn Fein to drop their demands, get the Assembly up and running, and bring a domestic Northern Ireland focus to what is happening with Brexit. Unfortunately, an ILA has greater importance to them than Brexit.

That reminded me of a certain poster with a similar apples and oranges argument in the water charges thread who believed we should accept water charges because the EU would then cut us some slack on our corporate tax rate.

With the DUP aligning themselves with Westminster the Northern Assembly would not make a blind bit of difference.
You have only to look at Scotland, who voted to remain, to see how little the view of the Scottish Assembly on Brexit is regarded in Westminster.

Let the DUP off and work on their British approach to Brexit so that when the pain hits their supporters will know exactly who to blame.
We are better off dealing with it on an all island basis.

charlie14

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I have heard absolutely zero from any other party ref. the ILA.

That should tell us something on this issue surely.

In fairness Brendan you may not have been keeping up to date on this, thus knowing no better, but your thanker certainly has and knows otherwise.

billy few mates

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Once again, and has been pointed out numerous times, it isn't solely the wishes of SF to have an Irish language act, it is something all of the main party's want, and something the dup had agreed upon, but reneged upon.

So, in essence what you're doing is suggesting that everyone else should be dancing to the dups tune, and letting them ride roughshod over everyone else for the greater good.

Am I missing anything here?

Yeah but why now..?
You haven’t had an Irish Language Act for the last twenty years or an Irish Language for the last eight hundred, it’s already been established that such an act will do nothing to enhance the lives of a single individual in the north and most people couldn’t give a fiddlers fcuk about it but now with Brexit the whole house is crumbling around you and it’s suddenly the most important thing in the world to Spin Feign...?

Or am I missing anything here...?
I understand the need for accountability and not letting the DUP ‘renege’ on their commitments (not letting anyone get away with it as Happyman used to say) but why now...?

FrancieBrady

billy few mates wrote: »

Yeah but why now..?
You haven’t had an Irish Language Act for the last twenty years or an Irish Language for the last eight hundred, it’s already been established that such an act will do nothing to enhance the lives of a single individual in the north and most people couldn’t give a fiddlers fcuk about it but now with Brexit the whole house is crumbling around you and it’s suddenly the most important thing in the world to Spin Feign...?

Or am I missing anything here...?
I understand the need for accountability and not letting the DUP ‘renege’ on their commitments (not letting anyone get away with it as Happyman used to say) but why now...?

When do you think equality on a number of issues, should be delivered?
Have you a timescale or a time when it would be opportune?

Brendan Bendar

charlie14 wrote: »

In fairness Brendan you may not have been keeping up to date on this, thus knowing no better, but your thanker certainly has and knows otherwise.

Thanks, Cha, but in fairness I was merely stating fact.

I have never heard on any platform good bad or indifferent parties other than SF and the DUP being vocal either for or against the ILA.

It wouldn’t be high on my lists of interest either,so maybe I wasn’t listening to the radio stations or TV shows where other parties got involved .

But it doesn’t alter the fact that what I stated was correct both then and now.

billy few mates

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I have heard absolutely zero from any other party ref. the ILA.

That should tell us something on this issue surely.

Do keep up Brendan, everybody knows the ILA is the most important piece of legislation in the whole history of Northern Ireland, how else are the unionists supposed to be kept in their place if you can’t rename their streets as gaeilge...?
Northern Ireland can only move forward when its citizens have access to more Irish Language classes or something...

FrancieBrady

billy few mates wrote: »

Do keep up Brendan, everybody knows the ILA is the most important piece of legislation in the whole history of Northern Ireland, how else are the unionists supposed to be kept in their place if you can’t rename their streets as gaeilge...?
Northern Ireland can only move forward when its citizens have access to more Irish Language classes or something...

Again you are posting from a position of ignorance.
There is no proposal to rename streets against the wishes of residents.
Brendan and yourself really do need to familiarise yourselves with the basics here.

McMurphy

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Thanks, Cha, but in fairness I was merely stating fact.

I have never heard on any platform good bad or indifferent parties other than SF and the DUP being vocal either for or against the ILA.

It wouldn’t be high on my lists of interest either,so maybe I wasn’t listening to the radio stations or TV shows where other parties got involved .

But it doesn’t alter the fact that what I stated was correct both then and now.

Um, no you were absolutely wrong, then and now.

What's amazing , unbelievable actually, is that you have blatantly and unashamedly ignored two news articles directly contradicting you.

billy few mates wrote: »

Do keep up Brendan, everybody knows the ILA is the most important piece of legislation in the whole history of Northern Ireland, how else are the unionists supposed to be kept in their place if you can’t rename their streets as gaeilge...?
Northern Ireland can only move forward when its citizens have access to more Irish Language classes or something...

Link please to where this is being proposed to be implemented anywhere by anyone?

I'd say thanks in advance, but we both know a link isn't forthcoming.

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Again you are posting from a position of ignorance.
There is no proposal to rename streets against the wishes of residents.
Brendan and yourself really do need to familiarise yourselves with the basics here.

I merely quoted facts, so please don’t assume I need to “familiarise “ myself with anything.

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I merely quoted facts, so please don’t assume I need to “familiarise “ myself with anything.

The fact that you don't know what is going on.

Brendan Bendar

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Um, no you were absolutely wrong, then and now.

What's amazing , unbelievable actually, is that you have blatantly and unashamedly ignored two news articles directly contradicting you.



Link please to where this is being proposed to be implemented anywhere by anyone?

I'd say thanks in advance, but we both know a link isn't forthcoming.

Contradicting what exactly.

Remember the clue is the word ‘heard’

James Brown

billy few mates wrote: »

Yeah but why now..?
You haven’t had an Irish Language Act for the last twenty years or an Irish Language for the last eight hundred, it’s already been established that such an act will do nothing to enhance the lives of a single individual in the north and most people couldn’t give a fiddlers fcuk about it but now with Brexit the whole house is crumbling around you and it’s suddenly the most important thing in the world to Spin Feign...?

Or am I missing anything here...?
I understand the need for accountability and not letting the DUP ‘renege’ on their commitments (not letting anyone get away with it as Happyman used to say) but why now...?

Yes. You are.
It's worse than you guess.
This was proposed long before Brexit. Many years. So 'why now?' doesn't come into it. The timing is not related to Brexit one bit.

The Irish language umbrella group, Pobal, has been focusing on the question of an Irish Language Act since 2003 and its chief executive, Janet Muller, said: "The Irish Language Act was promised in the St Andrews' Agreement in 2006.

Also, people do seemingly give tuppence hapenny;

Other Irish language groups have also lobbied for legislation which has the political support of both the SDLP and Sinn Féin.
The Alliance Party supports the creation of a comprehensive languages act covering "indigenous languages and other spoken languages used within Northern Ireland, as well as various sign languages.
But both main unionist parties oppose the proposed legislation.
Irish language activists point out that the Gaelic Language Act protects Scottish Gaelic in Scotland, despite the fact that, according census figures, there are fewer speakers of Gaelic in Scotland than Irish in Northern Ireland.

Anyone pointing to, continuing to point to Sinn Fein as the lone agitator on this couldn't be more, (continuously) wrong.
There is cross party support, so the premise of the thread is flipped. The DUP are the hold outs, and renegers.

It gets more silly:

However, when a unionist councillor in Ballymena complained that new covers installed in the town included the word "uisce", no-one was particularly surprised.
This is because "uisce" is the Irish word for water - two of the new covers installed as part of an improvement scheme were found to be bilingual.
The difficulty was 'resolved' by the Irish word being scraped off, but it was an illustration of how polarised attitudes to the Irish language are in Northern Ireland.
Despite only a minority of the population speaking Irish as a vernacular, the language is seen as important to the wider nationalist community, and a small number of unionists, as a symbol of identity.

And finally:

Over 179,000 claim some knowledge of Irish according to the 2011 census, almost 11% of the population, however only 4,045 said that Irish was their main language.
Place-names in Northern Ireland come from a variety of sources, however the vast majority derive from Irish.
There were over 6,000 children being educated through Irish in Northern Ireland in 2016-17 according to Comhairle na Gaelscolaíochta, the body which promotes Irish medium education, there are no schools teaching through Ulster-Scots.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-38601181

So it's concede to the brattyness of the lone political point of view of the DUP, ignoring the views of all others, while uniformed folk think this is about Sinn Fein alone, being stubborn....something something.
I await the non-partisan thrashing of the DUP based on the realities of the issue....

blanch152

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Thanks, Cha, but in fairness I was merely stating fact.

I have never heard on any platform good bad or indifferent parties other than SF and the DUP being vocal either for or against the ILA.

It wouldn’t be high on my lists of interest either,so maybe I wasn’t listening to the radio stations or TV shows where other parties got involved .

But it doesn’t alter the fact that what I stated was correct both then and now.

To be fair to them, all the other parties are in favour of an ILA.

To be fair to you, it is way down the list for all other parties in a list of priorities. Brexit, Brexit, Brexit, is top of the list for every party except Sinn Fein. Statements from the SDLP or the Alliance on an ILA get a paragraph once a year, Brexit dominates the headlines.

You are right though, the attitude is that the DUP can't be let get away with it, and if that means dropping the ball on Brexit, Sinn Fein appear to be ok with that.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

To be fair to them, all the other parties are in favour of an ILA.

To be fair to you, it is way down the list for all other parties in a list of priorities. Brexit, Brexit, Brexit, is top of the list for every party except Sinn Fein. Statements from the SDLP or the Alliance on an ILA get a paragraph once a year, Brexit dominates the headlines.

You are right though, the attitude is that the DUP can't be let get away with it, and if that means dropping the ball on Brexit, Sinn Fein appear to be ok with that.

Brexit is a priority for SF, they are happy with an all island approach on it. And according to people on the Brexit thread, Ireland have played well on Brexit and northern Ireland. Would you disagree with that?

Brendan Bendar

blanch152 wrote: »

To be fair to them, all the other parties are in favour of an ILA.

To be fair to you, it is way down the list for all other parties in a list of priorities. Brexit, Brexit, Brexit, is top of the list for every party except Sinn Fein. Statements from the SDLP or the Alliance on an ILA get a paragraph once a year, Brexit dominates the headlines.

You are right though, the attitude is that the DUP can't be let get away with it, and if that means dropping the ball on Brexit, Sinn Fein appear to be ok with that.

I know that Blanch I know they are in favour.

My only point was that I never heard any of them contributing good or bad on any discussion shows I listened to. I have heard loads from SF and the DUP.

What that tells me is that, as you said, it’s not high on their agenda.

Those were my only points.

No less no more

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

When do you think equality on a number of issues, should be delivered?
Have you a timescale or a time when it would be opportune?

Well, it seems there is a Westminister bill that will deliver same sex marriage in the North.

The ILA issue is a different one. I have seen convincing comment around the possibility of further ghettoisation in Northern Ireland if an ILA similar to the South is introduced. Integration rather than separation is what Northern Ireland needs. Artificial segregation using a language that was dead in the mid-1970s would not be in anyone's interest.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Well, it seems there is a Westminister bill that will deliver same sex marriage in the North.

The ILA issue is a different one. I have seen convincing comment around the possibility of further ghettoisation in Northern Ireland if an ILA similar to the South is introduced. Integration rather than separation is what Northern Ireland needs. Artificial segregation using a language that was dead in the mid-1970s would not be in anyone's interest.

So you are against an ILA at any time?

billy few mates

The ILA hasn’t even been costed by Spin Feign, nobody has a clue exactly how much it would cost to roll out the proposals in the Irish Language Act but which section of the community is most likely to benefit from the payday bonanza likely to be generated by any legislation requiring the translation of government proceedings, court proceedings, public signage into Irish...?
Northern Ireland is on its knees economically, that Spin Feign put such a high priority on a vanity project such as this, at a time like this shows how ill suited they are for any level of government...

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Brexit is a priority for SF, they are happy with an all island approach on it. And according to people on the Brexit thread, Ireland have played well on Brexit and northern Ireland. Would you disagree with that?

This is the ILA thread so I am reluctant to address this point, but I will do so once.

Sinn Fein have contributed next to nothing on Brexit.

They have made no contribution in Westminister.
They have made no interventions through the Assembly in the North.
They opted out of going into Government in the South.

Yes, Ireland have played well on Brexit, but Sinn Fein have played no part, sitting on the fence, hurling from the ditch.

McMurphy

billy few mates wrote: »

The ILA hasn’t even been costed by Spin Feign, nobody has a clue exactly how much it would cost to roll out the proposals in the Irish Language Act but which section of the community is most likely to benefit from the payday bonanza likely to be generated by any legislation requiring the translation of government proceedings, court proceedings, public signage into Irish...?
Northern Ireland is on its knees economically, that Spin Feign put such a high priority on a vanity project such as this, at a time like this shows how ill suited they are for any level of government...

Billy I admire your uncanny ability to shift to different tangents when your previous posts have been called out and smashed to smithereens.

One could be forgiven for thinking that you're not actually interested in honest and mature debate, but just want to stir the pot a bit with obvious and blatant mistruth.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

This is the ILA thread so I am reluctant to address this point, but I will do so once.

Sinn Fein have contributed next to nothing on Brexit.

They have made no contribution in Westminister.
They have made no interventions through the Assembly in the North.
They opted out of going into Government in the South.

Yes, Ireland have played well on Brexit, but Sinn Fein have played no part, sitting on the fence, hurling from the ditch.

I think they have.
But allowing you your point, it is still politically astute to allow Dublin lead on this.
Remembering too, that SF are not in existence to further your agendas but those of those that vote for them. Who seem more than happy with them. To the extent that their nearest competitors are considering scuttling the SDLP ship.

billy few mates

Brexit is like a car careering towards a cliff, Sinn Féin’s stance on the NI executive and the ILA is akin to them complaining about the colour of the seat covers in the car...

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So you are against an ILA at any time?

I didn't say that.

However, I have significant concerns based on an article I read in relation to ghettoisation. How many unionists will want to live in a neighbourhood surrounded by irish language signs? How many nationalists will want to live in a neighbourhood without them? Is that type of segregation what you really want?

FrancieBrady

billy few mates wrote: »

Brexit is like a car careering towards a cliff, Sinn Féin’s stance on the NI executive and the ILA is akin to them complaining about the colour of the seat covers in the car...

You work a campaign that delivers a No to Brexit vote in northern Ireland and the party representing the minority view get into a cuddly arrangement with the Tories.
That is akin to getting control of the steering but there is a juggernaut behind you pushing you over anyway.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

I didn't say that.

However, I have significant concerns based on an article I read in relation to ghettoisation. How many unionists will want to live in a neighbourhood surrounded by irish language signs? How many nationalists will want to live in a neighbourhood without them? Is that type of segregation what you really want?

So you aren't against it then? Which is it?

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think they have.
But allowing you your point, it is still politically astute to allow Dublin lead on this.
Remembering too, that SF are not in existence to further your agendas but those of those that vote for them. Who seem more than happy with them. To the extent that their nearest competitors are considering scuttling the SDLP ship.

If you aim is to make political capital from an issue, then it is politically astute of Sinn Fein to allow Dublin lead on this.

However, Brexit is the most important issue to face this country in decades. They would want to be careful that voters don't ask where they were when the country needed them.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So you aren't against it then? Which is it?

I would have been in favour of a Minorities Language Act. I am now a little bit undecided because of the dangers of ghettoisation and segregation. Certainly, any Languages Act would have to be symbolic rather than practical.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

I would have been in favour of a Minorities Language Act. I am now a little bit undecided because of the dangers of ghettoisation and segregation. Certainly, any Languages Act would have to be symbolic rather than practical.

So you are against an ILA? Just wanted to know.

ancapailldorcha

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

This thread is about Sinn Fein's stance on an Irish language act in Northern Ireland. Its gone waaaay off-topic and descended into the usual SF-related sniping between the usual suspects.

The forum is for debate, not bickering. If you're looking for trench warfare, look elsewhere.

I've changed the thread title to make clear what this thread is about.

Thanks.

This has gone ignored so I've had to dispense a few sanctions. No more please.

FrancieBrady

It was interesting listening to the 20th anniversary discussions last night. To almost a man/woman Unionists were trying to make the single issue of an ILA the sticking point for the collapse of the executive while everyone else was careful to point out all the equality issues and that the cumulative stagnation of the process (which the GFA is) was the primary issue.
There is an ongoing 'campaign' to trivialise republican/nationalist issues around the collapse when the problems run deeper than that.

recedite

Yes, it was interesting listening to Gerry Adams waxing lyrical about the GFA on its anniversary.
You'd never guess from listening to him now, that he actually slipped away without ever signing up for it.

The plenary was a low-key affair at which all the party leaders assented to the agreement except for Adams, who said he was very positive but had to consult with his party conference. There was no applause, just stunned silence. Tony and Bertie left before the votes of thanks and mutual congratulations so that they could be the first out to explain the agreement to the media...

http://www.thejournal.ie/good-friday-agreement-what-is-it-3928739-Mar2018/

FrancieBrady

recedite wrote: »

Yes, it was interesting listening to Gerry Adams waxing lyrical about the GFA on its anniversary.
You'd never guess from listening to him now, that he actually slipped away without ever signing up for it.
http://www.thejournal.ie/good-friday-agreement-what-is-it-3928739-Mar2018/

Only Ireland and the British government signed the GFA.

Although the Democratic Unionist Party was the only major party in Northern Ireland to oppose the agreement (along with the more marginal UKUP), both the UUP and Sinn Féin said that they would have to refer the document to their wider memberships before signing up to the deal.

Most of the political parties signed the Multi Party Agreement after getting the agreement of their parties.

McMurphy

recedite wrote: »

Yes, it was interesting listening to Gerry Adams waxing lyrical about the GFA on its anniversary.
You'd never guess from listening to him now, that he actually slipped away without ever signing up for it.
http://www.thejournal.ie/good-friday-agreement-what-is-it-3928739-Mar2018/

That's a bit desperate tbh.

There was no way for any individual political party to sign up to the GFA, it was a UK-Irish govt agreement, signed by them.

If we are to follow your analogy it was signed by none of the partys in the north.

Is this genuine clueless-ness at play here or what

James Brown

recedite wrote: »

Yes, it was interesting listening to Gerry Adams waxing lyrical about the GFA on its anniversary.
You'd never guess from listening to him now, that he actually slipped away without ever signing up for it.
http://www.thejournal.ie/good-friday-agreement-what-is-it-3928739-Mar2018/

I see the Unionist paramilitaries are officially on board...since last week.

The ILA as a lone sticking point brought by one party is a PR ruse. Somebody needs to stand up to political parties such as the DUP who will play loose with supposed political morals and ideology for self gain and it's good to see broad political support in that even if some have the wool pulled over their eyes. The school dinners issue was a low move.

Edward M

Interesting interview with Peter Robinson here.
He pretty bigs up MMG and wonders if in better health would he have went down the route he did re the Assembly.
He also hints at Arlene Fosters reasoning for her stance may be based more on her personal feelings because of IRA violence rather than what is probably best for the political situation.
He still holds the unionist high ground of course also, but overall he hints that more compromising leadership would have the assembly back up and running again and that's what would be best for NI.
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/peter-robinson-i-never-fought-with-martin-mcguinness-and-if-hed-been-healthy-things-could-have-been-different-36800075.html

McMurphy

Edward M wrote: »

Interesting interview with Peter Robinson here.
He pretty bigs up MMG and wonders if in better health would he have went down the route he did re the Assembly.
He also hints at Arlene Fosters reasoning for her stance may be based more on her personal feelings because of IRA violence rather than what is probably best for the political situation.
He still holds the unionist high ground of course also, but overall he hints that more compromising leadership would have the assembly back up and running again and that's what would be best for NI.
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/peter-robinson-i-never-fought-with-martin-mcguinness-and-if-hed-been-healthy-things-could-have-been-different-36800075.html

Robinson makes some good points, especially how he and McGuinness sorted their differences, even if it went on behind the scenes.

He makes the point that the DUP felt they could trust McGuinness, think about that. A self admitted IRA member, yet O'Neill - with no such connections, seemingly isn't trusted?

I'm not so sure about McGuinness' being in poor or good health would have made much difference, he stated several times that their could be no return to the status quo, I think it's safe to assume McGuinness made this point, not as being of his own personal views, but the views of the wider republican (and indeed nationalist community)

Lastly, if Arlene Foster is holding personal grudges on any issues to the past, perhaps she's not the person for the job up there?

Things happened on both sides, both communities have their own hurtful and distasteful experiences of the conflict.

Republicans (this is solely my own opinion) definitely seem to be willing to move on more than unionists.

There will be no return to the status quo. That's something they'll need to get used to, and soon, and its a good thing.

FrancieBrady

The GFA was stagnating long before MMG even got ill

James Brown

I would suggest Foster is more about avoiding court re the heating scandal and her gripe is purely personal. She backed down to her grass roots re the reneging on the ILA so she's capable of change when it suits her.