10 month old low muscle tone

Liam McPoyle

Hi all.

We had our 10 month old with a physio therapist in the coombe last week and he was diagnosed with low muscle tone.

Assessment was only 15 minutes long and she didn't really tell my wife much other than do loads of floor time with him and gave her a few suggestions for some exercises to do and said to bring him back in in a month.



We've been googling (as you do) and reading things about developmental issues, autism etc and other associated issues that can arise with LMT.

He has been rolling over since he was 4 or 5 months and can sit up unaided however he doesn't have good balance in that if sitting up and he leans to the side he usually topples over. He cannot get into a sitting position himself nor has he been making any efforts to try and stand. He can kind of crawl/pull himself along on his belly.

We just always assumed he was just a chilled out baby. We have been encouraging him when he is down playing on the floor to crawl, playing games to get him pulling and stretching but when he gets to whichever toy he is looking for he is quite happy to roll onto his back and play with them.

He has hit other developmental milestones, has been talking - mama, dada etc - for a couple of months and is constantly jibber jabbering.

I know all babies develop and crawl / sit up / walk at different times but I'm at my wits end as my wife is back to work in a week and obviously the child minder will not be able to dedicate the kind of time we have been putting in to exercises with him.

We have made an appointment for Tuesday with a private physio therapist who will spend an hour with him so hopefully we will know more then but I'm just wondering if many have had a similar diagnosis and what the outcome was.

Tia.

fits

From what you have said it does not sound severe at all. As long as he is making progress that’s the main thing. The important thing is that you are being proactive. One of mine is a bit delayed too but coming on in leaps and bounds at the moment. We are getting physio also.

Hoboo

Swimming. His body will be buoyed and supported, and he can get a super workout while having the craic.

catrionanic

At 10 months, my boy was only rolling and sitting and making no shapes at crawling or pulling up. Then suddenly at 11 months he was crawling, sitting up from lying and pulling to stand within a week, and a month later he was walking. Does he bear weight on his feet if you hold his hands or his waist?

I know it’s really hard, but try not to worry as so many babies develop at different rates even when they’re perfectly normal. Hopefully the physio appt will give you some reassurance and guide you with how to help him along.

jlm29

I know it’s easier said than done, but stay away from google!
If the Physio you’ve seen has given you some things to work on, that’s great, and often times a few little things done consistently make a huge difference. You can mention things like this to your childminder, and they can incorporate some of them too- if your baby is in the minders with other kids, it will probably bring him on too.

Just of note- I wouldn’t be at all alarmed that the Physio spent 15 min with your child- if they were worried, or had more to do, they’d have either spent longer, or brought baby back for a follow up a bit quicker. I would also be wary of going to a private Physio with a child unless they are a specialist paediatric Physio- I’m not saying not to do it, but if the public Physio is working with kids all the tine, they might be a bit more knowledgeable, and quicker to pick up on things. They’ll also have a broader range of treatment techniques. Private isn’t always superior where kids therapies are concerned, in my experience

Liam McPoyle

Thanks for the reassuring words guys.

We have been been bringing him swimming since he was about 4 months old which he loves, although he only REALLY kicks his arms and legs when I release him under water. When he is in the bath though he kicks and flaps both like a mad man.

He is well able to stand if we hold his hands out in front of him with his legs bearing his full weight. Still a bit wobbly of course but I'm not concerned about that.

I should add, he is a beast of a baby - 10+ kg already and over the 90th percentile for height, he also has a whopper of a head like myself and my siblings - so it's obviously alot tougher on him trying to get his balance.

We will just keep up doing what we have been doing and see what the physio says Tuesday.

Thanks again.

Liam McPoyle

jlm29 wrote: »

I know it’s easier said than done, but stay away from google!
If the Physio you’ve seen has given you some things to work on, that’s great, and often times a few little things done consistently make a huge difference. You can mention things like this to your childminder, and they can incorporate some of them too- if your baby is in the minders with other kids, it will probably bring him on too.

Just of note- I wouldn’t be at all alarmed that the Physio spent 15 min with your child- if they were worried, or had more to do, they’d have either spent longer, or brought baby back for a follow up a bit quicker. I would also be wary of going to a private Physio with a child unless they are a specialist paediatric Physio- I’m not saying not to do it, but if the public Physio is working with kids all the tine, they might be a bit more knowledgeable, and quicker to pick up on things. They’ll also have a broader range of treatment techniques. Private isn’t always superior where kids therapies are concerned, in my experience

Cheers, Ya, the physio we are going to is a paed specialist.

We were thinking our selves that if the initial physio had major concerns that she would have done more or told us to do a more stringent exercise regime etc but of course, with fookin Google, the worst case scenario is always at the forefront.

fits

I frightened myself googling also. It’s terrible! Were you referred on?

kat939

Hi Business Cat- if i remember rightly we were both in the April 2017 baby thread, congrats! Sounds like your little fella is doing great, as others have said. I would just add that lots of people (myself included) would have ' low' muscle tone so don't panic just having heard that. Also in respect of the childminder - the best way to help kids develop their physical skills is to make sure they get loads of time on the floor and then leave them to it, so as long as he doesn't spend too much (if any) time in a walker, jumperoo etc he'll be learning away there too:)

Business Cat

Business Cat wrote: »

Hi all.

We had our 10 month old with a physio therapist in the coombe last week and he was diagnosed with low muscle tone.

Assessment was only 15 minutes long and she didn't really tell my wife much other than do loads of floor time with him and gave her a few suggestions for some exercises to do and said to bring him back in in a month.



We've been googling (as you do) and reading things about developmental issues, autism etc and other associated issues that can arise with LMT.

He has been rolling over since he was 4 or 5 months and can sit up unaided however he doesn't have good balance in that if sitting up and he leans to the side he usually topples over. He cannot get into a sitting position himself nor has he been making any efforts to try and stand. He can kind of crawl/pull himself along on his belly.

We just always assumed he was just a chilled out baby. We have been encouraging him when he is down playing on the floor to crawl, playing games to get him pulling and stretching but when he gets to whichever toy he is looking for he is quite happy to roll onto his back and play with them.

He has hit other developmental milestones, has been talking - mama, dada etc - for a couple of months and is constantly jibber jabbering.

I know all babies develop and crawl / sit up / walk at different times but I'm at my wits end as my wife is back to work in a week and obviously the child minder will not be able to dedicate the kind of time we have been putting in to exercises with him.

We have made an appointment for Tuesday with a private physio therapist who will spend an hour with him so hopefully we will know more then but I'm just wondering if many have had a similar diagnosis and what the outcome was.

Tia.

The only bit I can help on is the autism bit. At 10 months if he has good eye contact, responds to name etc that would be what you would be looking at more than muscle tone. HTH.

Liam McPoyle

fits wrote: »

I frightened myself googling also. It’s terrible! Were you referred on?

We had been bringing him to Pamela O'Connor in the coombe for his usual check ups and it was her that referred us to the physio initially.

Liam McPoyle

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The only bit I can help on is the autism bit. At 10 months if he has good eye contact, responds to name etc that would be what you would be looking at more than muscle tone. HTH.

Ya, has great eye contact and has been responding to his name since he was 4 or 5 months old.

Liam McPoyle

Just an update.

Saw the physio today.

According to her there is nothing major to be concerned about. She said that he is a bit weak in his core area and gave us a full exercise regime to do with him to help build it up. Back again with her in 3 weeks for a progress update but we are feeling much more at ease and very relieved that it's something that can be relatively easy to correct.

Thanks to those of you that took to reply, really appreciate it.

This parenting lark is a feckin minefield!

Fantastic news thanks for the update :-)

fits

Great! I’m not surprised though.

Kintarō Hattori

Congrats BC. We were told our little lady had low core strength around 4 months old and she's been getting physio from Temple Street. She's just turned 9 months old and while she can stay sitting if you position her, she's yet to roll or babble- which is concerning. She has good eye contact, can entertain herself and seems to know the names of her toys, the washing machine, clothes etc. So that's all positive. The worst physical thing seems to be that she tilts her head right as the right neck muscles are under-developed. I'm hoping we're not too late to correct this.


It's fecking worrying though and Google really doesn't help. My missus is a nightmare for diagnosing things and then falling apart when she learns of something. We're off to Temple Street on Tuesday for an eye exam, physio and then to see the pediatrician. Hopefully it'll be good news and the MRI scheduled for Wednesday won't be needed, though I suspect it will.

She's the most marvelous thing I've ever been a part of and the source of most emotions/worry I've ever experienced.

fits

My lad just started rolling at just over nine months. He is almost crawling now at 15 months and making great progress.

Liam McPoyle

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Congrats BC. We were told our little lady had low core strength around 4 months old and she's been getting physio from Temple Street. She's just turned 9 months old and while she can stay sitting if you position her, she's yet to roll or babble- which is concerning. She has good eye contact, can entertain herself and seems to know the names of her toys, the washing machine, clothes etc. So that's all positive. The worst physical thing seems to be that she tilts her head right as the right neck muscles are under-developed. I'm hoping we're not too late to correct this.


It's fecking worrying though and Google really doesn't help. My missus is a nightmare for diagnosing things and then falling apart when she learns of something. We're off to Temple Street on Tuesday for an eye exam, physio and then to see the pediatrician. Hopefully it'll be good news and the MRI scheduled for Wednesday won't be needed, though I suspect it will.

She's the most marvelous thing I've ever been a part of and the source of most emotions/worry I've ever experienced.

Google is awful, my wife is the same, then i Google and worry myself too.

We've been doing as much of the physio/exercises as we can with him and even in the two weeks we have seen an improvement both in terms of his balance and the duration in which he can sit up unassisted.

His crawling is getting better too and I think alot of it is him just figuring out what his body can do, he just needs to be steered in the right direction.

We brought him to the paediatric physiotherapist in Milltown physio to get assessed after the initial one in the Coombe because we frankly were not happy with yer one in the Coombe that saw him.

She spent about 50 minutes with him doing various tests and showed us 5 or 6 different exercises to help build up his strenght.

Initial consult is €120 then they do a few half hour follow up sessions (our first is next Saturday) for €60.

It was completely worth it to give us the tools to help him as best we could.

I wouldnt worry about the talking with your little lady. One of my nieces didn't say a peep for over 12 months but now at 3 and a bit chats away to bate the band.

Our fella had silent reflux and colic for the first few months and he HATED tummy time because of it (we only know that now as he wasn't diagnosed with the reflux til he was 5 months old) As a result we neglected tummy time due to the distress it used to cause him. The physio told us he is a classic colicy / refluxy baby so that has helped but it still doesn't make us feel that we somehow failed him in his first few months.

Fingers crossed for your appointment next week.

Liam McPoyle

Just an update here.

We had him in with the consultant pediatrician in the Coombe today and she expressed some concern that he has not yet moved into a crawling position himself (as in on all fours) and he has a bit of head lag.

She is arranging for him to see a neurologist and to have an MRI done as well as have CK bloods done.

While she said he has improved since she last saw him, apparently he isn't at the level he should be at for his age (3 days shy of 11 months).

We have been doing alot of physio exercises with him and we feel he has really improved in the last month in terms of his over all movement. One of the previous issues was when he was sitting that he had a tendency to topple over so we have been working on getting him to plant his hands if he feels he is going to topple over which has really helped him with his balance. He is making efforts himself to get onto his knees (tucking them in under him and lifting his bum in the air).

Intellectually she said there are no concerns as he is bright, has good hand / eye coordination, is trying to talk etc but its the physical that she is concerned with.

We were back in with the physio last Saturday and she was very happy with him and the progress he has made and gave us additional exercises to stimulate him into getting on all fours and finding his balance with that.

But now we feel so deflated and are absolutely sick with worry, particularly with the CK test. I know doctors will err on the side of caution and she said herself that often the child will catch up naturally bet we just feel really teary and worried for our poor little man.

fits

Sorry to hear but it’s good that it’s being checked out. I’m wondering now if I should be worried too...

foreverandever

Business Cat wrote: »

Just an update here.

We had him in with the consultant pediatrician in the Coombe today and she expressed some concern that he has not yet moved into a crawling position himself (as in on all fours) and he has a bit of head lag.

She is arranging for him to see a neurologist and to have an MRI done as well as have CK bloods done.

While she said he has improved since she last saw him, apparently he isn't at the level he should be at for his age (3 days shy of 11 months).

We have been doing alot of physio exercises with him and we feel he has really improved in the last month in terms of his over all movement. One of the previous issues was when he was sitting that he had a tendency to topple over so we have been working on getting him to plant his hands if he feels he is going to topple over which has really helped him with his balance. He is making efforts himself to get onto his knees (tucking them in under him and lifting his bum in the air).

Intellectually she said there are no concerns as he is bright, has good hand / eye coordination, is trying to talk etc but its the physical that she is concerned with.

We were back in with the physio last Saturday and she was very happy with him and the progress he has made and gave us additional exercises to stimulate him into getting on all fours and finding his balance with that.

But now we feel so deflated and are absolutely sick with worry, particularly with the CK test. I know doctors will err on the side of caution and she said herself that often the child will catch up naturally bet we just feel really teary and worried for our poor little man.

Sorry to hear that, you’re doing a great job and hopefully he’ll continue to improve. When children are involved they just want to make sure there’s nothing missed and I’m sure it’s the same in this case

fits

An update from my end. We have been referred for assessment with early intervention as he seems to be missing some milestones other than in motor skills. He’s not waving or pointing etc. he is crawling and pulling up to stand now and making good progress there.

fits

fits wrote: »

An update from my end. We have been referred for assessment with early intervention as he seems to be missing some milestones other than in motor skills. He’s not waving or pointing etc. he is crawling and pulling up to stand now and making good progress there.

Best of luck with it all I know how worrying it is especially waiting to be seen.

Liam McPoyle

fits wrote: »

An update from my end. We have been referred for assessment with early intervention as he seems to be missing some milestones other than in motor skills. He’s not waving or pointing etc. he is crawling and pulling up to stand now and making good progress there.

Our little man has been referred too for more or less the same reasons. The whole pointing thing I don't really understand tbh. If he sees something he wants he reaches for it and we aren't a pointing house. I would have thought that children learn by imitation, if he has nothing to imitate then how would he know to do it?



're the waving, over the last few days he seems to be waving in his own way, not full blown flapping his hand but if we say "day day" he has started opening and closing his fingers directed at who ever is saying it to him.

I don't know that we are too worried about things like that. Over the last week or two he has learned how to high 5 as in we say high 5 and hold our hand up he reaches up to meet our hand.

He has also learned how to play catch. As in I put him sitting a couple of feet away from me, throw a little ball to him, he will pick it up and throw it back (as much as an 11 and a half month old has the dexterity to throw anything with any kind of direction on it)

We got some of the CK test results back today and thankfully everything came back as normal, still waiting on additional results but afaik the major worries like muscular dystrophy or other genetic issues are not present so that has been a massive relief.

He is booked in for an MRI for June so in the mean time the physio has given us additonal exercises to do with him to encourage standing and walking and to continue strenghtening his core.

Our biggest fear was something genetic, anything else can be worked on with occupational or physical therapy.

We are obviously biased but we think he is a very bright and engaged little boy. He is smiling and laughing, remembers and recognises things around the house, lots of little things that we only see. I also firmly hold the opinion that doctors will always err on the side of caution on a "just in case" basis. The consultant gets to see him for 25 to 30 minute slots every 6 or 8 weeks so imo it's difficult for them to form a proper picture, particularly because they're prolly seeing hundreds of babies a week.

As she said to us though, we are doing everything we can possibly do and being as proactive as we can be, there is literally nothing more we could be doing at this point so if we have additonal hurdles to cross we will cross them.

fits

It sounds like he is doing great Business Cat. That sounds like waving to me so that’s very positive.

I really feel I took my eye off the ball here and am lying awake beating myself up about it. My fellow is very good humored and sociable with great eye contact etc but he’s not really gesturing at all.

volchitsa

Business Cat wrote: »

Our little man has been referred too for more or less the same reasons. The whole pointing thing I don't really understand tbh. If he sees something he wants he reaches for it and we aren't a pointing house. I would have thought that children learn by imitation, if he has nothing to imitate then how would he know to do it?



're the waving, over the last few days he seems to be waving in his own way, not full blown flapping his hand but if we say "day day" he has started opening and closing his fingers directed at who ever is saying it to him.

I don't know that we are too worried about things like that. Over the last week or two he has learned how to high 5 as in we say high 5 and hold our hand up he reaches up to meet our hand.

He has also learned how to play catch. As in I put him sitting a couple of feet away from me, throw a little ball to him, he will pick it up and throw it back (as much as an 11 and a half month old has the dexterity to throw anything with any kind of direction on it)

We got some of the CK test results back today and thankfully everything came back as normal, still waiting on additional results but afaik the major worries like muscular dystrophy or other genetic issues are not present so that has been a massive relief.

He is booked in for an MRI for June so in the mean time the physio has given us additonal exercises to do with him to encourage standing and walking and to continue strenghtening his core.

Our biggest fear was something genetic, anything else can be worked on with occupational or physical therapy.

We are obviously biased but we think he is a very bright and engaged little boy. He is smiling and laughing, remembers and recognises things around the house, lots of little things that we only see. I also firmly hold the opinion that doctors will always err on the side of caution on a "just in case" basis. The consultant gets to see him for 25 to 30 minute slots every 6 or 8 weeks so imo it's difficult for them to form a proper picture, particularly because they're prolly seeing hundreds of babies a week.

As she said to us though, we are doing everything we can possibly do and being as proactive as we can be, there is literally nothing more we could be doing at this point so if we have additonal hurdles to cross we will cross them.

Hi BC,

my kids are nearly grown up now, but I just wanted to say, the best doctor I ever had was one who told me he preferred to listen to what the parents thought over a lot of the actual "milestone" tests. He said sometimes the baby doesnt react on a given day, but if the parents are worried that is a far more important sign.

So if you think he's engagaed and so on (paying attention to all this, as you will have been now) then there's a good chance everything isfine.

I know it's a terrifying thing to go through, and you have my best wishes that it will all pass. Kids, eh? And wait till they go to school! Andstart learning to drive!

volchitsa

fits wrote: »

It sounds like he is doing great Business Cat. That sounds like waving to me so that’s very positive.

I really feel I took my eye off the ball here and am lying awake beating myself up about it. My fellow is very good humored and sociable with great eye contact etc but he’s not really gesturing at all.

You do, don't you, lie awake worrying, I mean? My eldest was a bit like BC's and didnt really talk until he was 2 1/2, though TBH i think he was reaching and stuff. Bu I remember lying awake counting the words he could (barely) say, and feeling I'd been so negligent not to have realized there might be a major problem before that. But you probably couldnt have reacted much earlier anyway.

Do they have any idea of something in particular that might be wrong, or is it just a vague "missing milestones"? I've no experience of big issues, so cant really help if there is, but I just wanted to say I know how horrible it is to feel maybe you didnt see something you could have seen earlier. I suspect the reality is you probably couldnt.

Liam McPoyle

volchitsa wrote: »

Hi BC,

my kids are nearly grown up now, but I just wanted to say, the best doctor I ever had was one who told me he preferred to listen to what the parents thought over a lot of the actual "milestone" tests. He said sometimes the baby doesnt react on a given day, but if the parents are worried that is a far more important sign.

So if you think he's engagaed and so on (paying attention to all this, as you will have been now) then there's a good chance everything isfine.

I know it's a terrifying thing to go through, and you have my best wishes that it will all pass. Kids, eh? And wait till they go to school! Andstart learning to drive!

Thanks for that V.

I'd be inclined to agree tbh (perhaps that's misguided).

For example, last time he saw the paed he was sick and hadn't slept for about 7 hours so was wrecked, it's difficult for them to make a proper diagnosis of anything in such short time frames.

Of course there must be some concern there which is why he is going to be fully assessed but we aren't nearly as worried as we were.

They do develop at different rates. Little man has been playing peekaboo for months but some or the kids in a mothers group with herself weren't. He has known his name since he was around 6 months old where as some of the others didn't. He was the first to say dada and mama amongst his peers too. Then the other side is that some of the others are hands and knees crawling but he isn't, though he is flying it around commando crawling.

I also think he is at the stage that he is making a bit strange with people so it's difficult for him to be fully engaged (imo) with someone he is a bit shy/wary of.

I just don't know!

Hopefully it's nothing major with him anyway but if there is then we will get him what ever assistance he needs.

Fits, try and not beat yourself up. We were the same for the first couple of weeks when we were initially told he was going to be referred to the EAT, what did we miss, why didn't we do x,y,z etc but we know that there isn't anything more we could have done. At the end of the day, we have virtually no knowledge of this world so are very much flying by the seat of our pants. Please god your guy will be grand and that if he does need some assistance then he will get it. You can't do anything more than you are doing.

Who'd be a parent, eh!

volchitsa

You know some children never crawl, go straight from sitting on their bum to walking? It's unusual but it does happen. And they turn into normal adults at the end (my o/h's brother did that apparently.

Obviously its important not to miss out on early intervention, and better to do it unnecessarily than start a day later if it is needed, but I think it's important to remember that physios amd even paediatricians are used to seeing sick children all the time, so I think they sometimes end up having worst case scenarios in their head, and need to eliminate those before going with "It'll sort itself out".

Which of course is far preferable to someone who wrongly tells a parent everything is grand - but you may also need to remember that when you're waiting for all those unlikely cases to be eliminated.

That's where I think my old doctor was right - he told me that in his very long experience as a paediatrician (this wasnt in Ireland, and over here it's quite common for smaller children to be seen by a paediatrician the way we'd see a GP in Ireland) questioning the parents is always the best way to know if a problem is real or just an isolated thing, and OTOH listening to parents who think there is a problem when the tests seem fine is just as much of an issue.

This was when I was panicking about language and hearing (my boy had severe glue ear, and I had convinced myself that was why he wasnt talking, and it was all my fault for not having those drain things put in his ears in time etc etc. It all passed, with supervision, and he's a strapping 24 year old with no issues except bad hay fever!)

fits

volchitsa wrote: »

.

Do they have any idea of something in particular that might be wrong, or is it just a vague "missing milestones"? .

At the moment it looks like they’d call it a global developmental delay until an underlying cause is found. Could be any of a number of things really.

bp

volchitsa wrote: »

You know some children never crawl, go straight from sitting on their bum to walking? It's unusual but it does happen. And they turn into normal adults at the end (my o/h's brother did that apparently

Can confirm the above it true, neither myself nor one of my kids crawled. Went from army drag (me) and bum shuffle (child) to walking and we were both late walkers. Can confirm we both walk perfectly fine now.

Kids develop at different rates. One of mine talked early and a lot, the other was a lot slower to talk and would still be slightly behind peers but catching up