Tender to manage Wicklow deer!!!

wirehairmax

http://deeralliance.ie/blog/privatisation-of-deer-management-on-state-lands/

Complete game changer.

Grizzly 45

So the DAI/HCAP lot should go and apply for it themselves...They are the "experts" in this as they claim.:D:D:D.TBH what is being looked for is in the category of multiple miracles with the situation here.:rolleyes:

meathstevie

120k over three years ? I bet you it costs more to keep the rodent bait boxes topped up around the Department and Coilte's offices.

Years of trying to charge people through the nose to essentially do their pest control until it's out of control seems to have come back to bite them in the arse.

solarwinds

As with most jobs on e tenders they will get a half arsed job done for bad money and more than likely by someone from outside ireland as e tenders are advertised europe wide.

ayagerard

Parties tendering for this contract will be required to satisfy stringent criteria as to competence, experience and the structural capacity to fulfil the conditions of the contract. They will be required to carry Employer’s Liability, Public Liability and Professional Indemnity Insurance, and to be fully tax-compliant i.e. to possess a current Tax Clearance Certificate.

there wont be many left in the room if they can tick all these boxes

solarwinds

You can put all the criteria you want into a tender and weight it to a preferred contractor but at the end of the day its bottom line that counts and nothing else.
On jobs we have tendered for previously on e tenders in some instances we have been told ours was the only fully complete tender returned but the job was still awarded to other people because it was deemed more econmically advantageous. Price could account for as much as 80%, experience 10% and all the rest 10%. Bottom line will always win out regardless of experience or ability to do the job.
As an example regarding experience it is usual to have to submit evidence of similar contracts of similar value for a period of 5 years previous. But yet companies established less than 1 year ago win the tender who could not fulfill the experience requirement.

BattleCorp

Is that a mistype on the contract value? Did they leave off a zero off the figure? €120,000 is crazy low for what is being asked. That amounts to €40,000 per year over the three years. Aside from the cost of insurance etc. it's not even a wage for one person let alone for whoever is going to make up the three deer management units.

Is there enough money in charging individual shooters to become part of those deer management units so that will earn them back a few quid?

ayagerard

the more i think about this the more the pong is rising
why is the department of agriculture putting this tender forward ,why is it not the department of heritage arts & gaeltacht, are they not the department in charge of deer in ireland
why is the state paying rangers to " manage deer " with the implementation of this will they now be redundant when this new private enterprise[B being funded by the state to manage deer on state lands, will the rangers be re deployed ,or here again we are paying two grupes to do the same job with public money

has any one on here registered for e tender that can read the document and expand on the details involved
where is the land ,how many acres ,what happens to the animals shot where they go, who gets the proceeds , and what mention of paying hunters surely they would have to be " employees " of the any company of the " winning tender " or is it a sub contract from a sub contractor pensionable
what affiliation has the deer alliance or will the deer alliance have with any winning bids
otherwise this would be leading to the propetysee of an irish leprechaun predictions of about 5 years ago which i am having great trouble resirecting but it will surface in time

cookimonster

Would this possibly be for state land not under the remit of Coilte?.

Would it be more in the form of a management group- office bound, sub letting / controlling shooting rights for indiviulas or groups as seen with the Coilte system?

They (winning tender) would receive a management / contract fee from the government and in turn charge 'hunters' to cull the designated area. This is where the real money could be made.

Governments past and present are more aligned with outsourcing many services etc pushing the cost onto a 2nd party and ultimately onto the citizens / tax payer.

kunekunesika

Hard to say without the tender documents. What do they mean by public land? Don't know of any national park in wexford or carlow. Is it us they want to manage? If so, expect certs, registration, paper work etc etc. Plus cost on our behalf.
Didn't try register for equote, presume I need company details of some sort? Can anyone post the documents, hardly secret?

J.R.

you need to register on-line and then log in.

Documents available to download after "expressing interest"

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=124589&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

blackpearl

It would fit them better if they put the money into restoring grouse numbers up their instead of controling none native deer.

PL05

What a croc of sh*t. this sounds to me its for national parks. I heard recently that someone from England was brought in to cull deer in the phoenix park, has anyone else heard this and by all means correct me if I'm wrong on anything I post here. If its a case that deer in national parks need to be culled, IMO. it should be offered to local lads or done maybe like a lottery so people that bother to go through the proper process to get deer hunting licenses have the option to take part. TBH. I think its getting harder to take part in this sport, seems that things are stacked against us more and more. Again correct me if I'm wrong but I think that that the biggest population [possibly in Europe] of sika are in the Wicklow area mostly around luggalla etc [National Park]......

Grizzly 45

Looks like they [DAI/HCAP] have had some of their questions answerd .From their blog.
Following numerous queries from the stalking community since publication of information regarding the tender invited by the Department of Agriculture, Food & the Marine (see previous posting on this subject), a number of questions were put to the Department. Responses have now been received and these are shown below, as received.

Q1: Is certification of competency, e.g. HCAP or equivalent, a requirement?

A1: This is not a requirement but will be taken into consideration when awarding marks under award Criteria number 1.

Q2: Please identify in fuller detail the geographic area proposed to be covered, broken down by three proposed geographic zones (Deer Management Units or DMUs)

A2: The DMU’s are not predefined. The establishment of the DMU’s including their location is a deliverable of the project and will be a product of collaboration between landowners, hunters and key stakeholders.

Q3: Please advise whether Coillte Teoranta forest property is included in any proposed DMU.

A3: Coillte as Irelands largest landowner are an important stakeholder when it comes to establishing the DMU’s. It is expected that the successful tenderer will engage with Coillte during the course of the project.

Q4: If Coillte forest property is involved, will the ordinary terms of the standard Coillte licence regarding days, times and other conditions of access apply?

A4: These details will need to be discussed with Coillte as part of the process of establishing the DMU’s.

Q5: Please identify whether State land e.g. Wicklow Mountains National Park is to be included in any DMU.

A5: All relevant lands should be included in the DMU’s where possible. Collaboration with relevant owners regarding access and other arrangements should feature as part of the DMU’s establishment process. It may be the case that certain lands cannot be included in a DMU to be established. Where this is the case the Department should be notified for information in advance of finalising the DMU’s.

Q6: To what extent is it anticipated whether privately owned farmland is to be included in any DMU?

A6: See reply to number 5 above.

Q7: Will the contractor be expected to indemnify owners of private land if private farmland is to be included in any DMU?

A7: The successful tenderer will be required to demonstrate that it holds acceptable insurances with sufficient limits of indemnity which are appropriate to the services provided. The successful tenderer(s) will be required to provide evidence of availability of insurance cover and justification of the levels prior to the award of the contract.

The National Treasury Management Agency’s “General Indemnity Scheme (GIS) – SIG 02: Determining Insurance Requirements for Goods & Services RFTs & Contracts” (April 2016) which can be found at http://ezone.agriculture.gov.ie/intranet/media/intranet/centralprocurementunit/tenderingcontracts/insurance/SIG0201InsuranceReq280416.pdf

http://ezone.agriculture.gov.ie/intranet/media/intranet/centralprocurementunit/tenderingcontracts/insurance/SIG0201InsuranceReq280416.pdf states the following:

“Employers liability – covers the legal liability of an employer for bodily injury or disease sustained by an employee and which arises out of and in the course of the employment. Employers liability insurance is required where the third party’s obligations under the contract have the potential to cause personal injury or property damage to its employees. The insurance norm limit for employers liability cover is typically be €12.7m for any one claim or series of claims arising out of a single occurrence. Employers liability cover is not required if the third party is self-employed.

Public liability – protects an insured in respect of its legal liability to third parties for bodily injury and for any loss or damage to property which happened in connection with the insured business. Public liability insurance is required where the third party’s obligations under the contract have the potential to cause personal injury or property damage to members of the public (including DSA employees who are considered third parties in respect of the insured contract). The insurance norm limit for public liability cover would typically be €6.5m for any one claim or series of claims arising out of a single occurrence although lower limits are acceptable where risk assessed.

Professional indemnity – protects professionals against claims, alleging that injury or financial loss, resulted from their professional actions, services or advice e.g. architect, engineer, solicitor. Professional indemnity insurance is particularly relevant where a DSA is relying upon the professional expertise of a third party. The level of indemnity required should be based on the risks associated with the services. Limits can range from €500,000 for low risk contracts to €10m or more for large scale high risk projects. DSAs should conduct a risk assessment to identify the level of risk associated with a potential failure, delay or error in the provision of the services and this will identify the level of professional indemnity cover required.

Provided the annual professional indemnity insurance policy is renewed each year, ‘run-off’ cover is not necessary. However, if a consultant ceases to practice, or no longer continues professional indemnity cover, then the consultant should be required to purchase a ‘run-off’ policy that will provide a retroactive cover from the date at which the annual professional indemnity insurance policy expires”.

Appendix C of the same document indicates that Professional Indemnity for a professional service such as research can be set at a minimum of €1m or the value of the contract where the contract value is greater than €1m.

Q8: Please advise whether applications for Section 42 licences are to be supported if any Coillte forest property or any WMNP land is included in any proposed DMU.

A8: The NPWS of the Department of Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht considers applications for Section 42 permits on a case by case basis and any such applications for such permits on Coillte lands would require the approval of the company.

Q9: Please advise whether night shooting, in or out of season, is to be supported by the licensing authority concerned.

A9: The NPWS of the Department of Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht would consider night shooting applications on a case by case basis.

Q10: Will the successful contractor be entitled to engage sub-contractors to assist in implementation of any deer management plan including cull operations?

A10: Yes, sub contracting is allowed once they are specified in the tender reply (See award criteria)

Q11: Will the contractor be entitled to retain any and all revenues received from sale of wild shot venison resulting from cull operations on the DMUs concerned?

A11: The Department does not assume any rights to the venison. However, details regarding revenues generated from the sale of venison should feature during collaboration with Stakeholders during the DMU establishment phase.

Q12: Will membership of the NARGC Compensation Fund suffice to meet requirements under the heading, Public Liability Insurance, whether held by the contractor or any sub-contractor?

A12: See reply to Question 7 above.

Q13: Will the provision of services and payments arising therefrom be subject to Value Added Tax?

A13: If the contractor is registered for VAT then VAT will apply and should be included in the tender price.

Q14: Will contract payments be subject to Withholding Tax?

A14: Withholding Tax does not apply.

ayagerard

Q10: Will the successful contractor be entitled to engage sub-contractors to assist in implementation of any deer management plan including cull operations?

A10: Yes, sub contracting is allowed once they are specified in the tender reply (See award criteria)

this is where the problem stems as part of the propetysee
( if we don't get what we want one way we will try another )
next all we will be hearing is for the first time since the foundation of the state how they have deer numbers under control how herd health is on the up, damage & accidents are at an acceptable and sustainable level ,
and this program should be implemented country wide in an effort to get control of a problem that does not exist ,
if there are large numbers of deer in areas the solution is not the privatisation of deer hunting, where any winning bid would be stating they had a write to hunt on private property ,where by bringing in paying guns to subitise an income from shooting deer , this is unacceptable and must not be allowed under any circumstances, a paying gun will care little for herd health ,and wont certainly have interest in a scare battled stag ,it would be far more benefit to extend hunting dates in these areas by a month or so to get numbers in cheque i am confidant that that the outcome would be better for the deer and the people who are at a loss because of the increased numbers with no cost to the state or the tax payer every one happy ,
the paying gun is the scenario we must all fight to keep out be they private or commercial they care about no one or no animal there self benefit is number one, financially make no mistake,we are at a point where our woodcock and snipe are about to be protected the numbers are so low , but we still have what every other country in europe would die for that is why they keep coming here, that is free or relatively free hunting where you might meet 20-30 birds in a day compared to 5-6 in france wild birds, commercialy you would be charged 300 euro a day as some are here in ireland ???
any wining bid for this contract would have to ( subitise ) implement an income from paying guns and the sales of venison 40,000 a year wont pay for a good secretary let alone a legal consultant which will be needed or will the department supply its assistance here too , it is only a smoke screen to get a leg in ,so i am looking forward to see who the winning bid will be who will be smiling and who will be left at a loss i just hope it wont be the shooting community
IF this is refined to state land in conjunction with coillte and willing farmers on their land with their permission happy days and my blessing , but this is ireland and i for one cannot take this at face value

solarwinds

Difficult to tender for this, the parcels of land are not designated in the documents its up to the tenderers to define the areas.
Typical of an e tenders job, no level playing field no set criteria everyone has to adhere to. The usual whatever you think yourself approach and then wonder why in 2 years it all went wrong and there is no deer left.

Grizzly 45

tps://www.independent.ie/business/farming/forestry-enviro/deer-coming-into-farmyards-at-night-and-eating-silage-alongside-cattle-group-call-for-hunting-extension-36653415.html

And then they wonder why poachers are seen by the farmers as "sound lads"??:rolleyes:
A GREAT start would e to make the deer licenses a 3-year affair.Same as the gun licenses and quit pandering to vested interests for doing courses and money grubbing

Half-cocked

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/forestry-enviro/environment/farmers-say-uncontrolled-wild-deer-numbers-continue-to-wreak-havoc-on-wicklow-farms-36694960.html

Wild deer? Looks like a photo of tagged Phoenix Pk fallow to me;)

meathstevie

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

tps://www.independent.ie/business/farming/forestry-enviro/deer-coming-into-farmyards-at-night-and-eating-silage-alongside-cattle-group-call-for-hunting-extension-36653415.html

And then they wonder why poachers are seen by the farmers as "sound lads"??:rolleyes:
A GREAT start would e to make the deer licenses a 3-year affair.Same as the gun licenses and quit pandering to vested interests for doing courses and money grubbing

Nothing stopping those folks from applying for a Section 42.

ayagerard

has anyone yet been enlightened to the winning bid in this fiasco, i would have taught by now they would have all of the tenders validated , as i have heard or read nothing i can only presume ( hope ) they are doing data and revenue cheques to avoid more scrambled eggs on their hands
funny there has been no announcements

solarwinds

Wouldnt be too surprised there is no announcment yet. It can be a very slow process making sure you get the "right" candidate.
Requests for further information, clarifications on info submitted which should be included in your submital and if not it is deemed incomplete and discarded, but that never happens. And after all that nonsense its the figure on the bottom line will determine who gets it.

cookimonster

Ok deep breath.....i heard this off a lad who knows another lad who's auntie cleans this fellas office that he spoke to an other chap and this is what he said.....


Ok all jokes aside, who here actually has seen the e-tender document?..... I haven't, but as I said in the beginning this is what I heard....

'Its not a contract to cull deer in any shape or design, it is a tender for a qualified person to carry out a study / survey on the deer in the locations and that this research is to encompass not only the deer but all parties concerned or involved with them i.e farmers, forestry, land owners, stalkers etc, etc ( bound to offend someone here by leaving them out...wedding speech syndrome)'.

This would make some sense if you look at the monies involved which would be roughly one person's annual wage. Now at present unless some one had some more info this seems to be a plausible ecplanation of the ins and outs.

I as always am awaiting corection and enlightenment.

wexfordman2

cookimonster wrote: »

Ok deep breath.....i heard this off a lad who knows another lad who's auntie cleans this fellas office that he spoke to an other chap and this is what he said.....


Ok all jokes aside, who here actually has seen the e-tender document?..... I haven't, but as I said in the beginning this is what I heard....

'Its not a contract to cull deer in any shape or design, it is a tender for a qualified person to carry out a study / survey on the deer in the locations and that this research is to encompass not only the deer but all parties concerned or involved with them i.e farmers, forestry, land owners, stalkers etc, etc ( bound to offend someone here by leaving them out...wedding speech syndrome)'.

This would make some sense if you look at the monies involved which would be roughly one person's annual wage. Now at present unless some one had some more info this seems to be a plausible ecplanation of the ins and outs.

I as always am awaiting corection and enlightenment.

But why would they tender out something like that rather than take on a qualified person in a fixed term contract?

cookimonster

wexfordman2 wrote: »

......rather than take on a qualified person in a fixed term contract?

I'm not up on employment regs etc. But there are multitudes of individuals employed by government departments that are contracted in to do jobs. It puts enough of a distance between the department to free them up from payroll conditions and obligations, insurance/liability etc etc. I believe many big buisness with a high staff turn over have outsourced their employment force to other agencies to free up these responsibility.

We've seen staff (particularly maintenance staff) being replaced by outside contractors and lately evening running contracts seem to be dropped with individual jobs (low budget) be sorted by tender applications via a minimum three quote system. Before there was a cost appraisal before it went to tender now a simple plumbing job must be done through the three quote system.

But that's Government bureaucracy for you.....somebody swindled hundreds of thousands of the people's money and their solution is to force us to seek a 3 tender quote to get a leaky pipe under a sink fixed!

Grizzly 45

Simply put, the law of the land now requires any public job or whatever contract using taxpayers cash, must be put to public tender." openness and transparency" don't you know? Not that it has improved anything on making anything easier for applicants outside the system:rolleyes:.

Sparks

http://deeralliance.ie/blog/wicklow-deer-management-services-tender-goes-to-wicklow-uplands-council/

Tender awarded to http://www.wicklowuplands.ie/

meathstevie

I think this will be an interesting space to watch because without landowners consent to access lands this organisation will manage to do sweet nothing.

solarwinds

Look up there directors a lot of them are farmers