Criminal records

gunny123

A guy i know through the clay shooting is a small builder, only a couple of employees. One was fairly new to the business and after a chat about sports asked the new lad if he would like to try a round of clays.

The new guy loved it, and said it was something he would like to do again. So he joined a club and went about the process of buying a shotgun, then all of a sudden drops the whole thing.

The builder i know is now worried the new lad has a criminal record as he won't talk to him about dropping the shooting so suddenly. He has asked the guards about it, but they won't say anything either.

Are criminal records in Ireland sealed ? I thought they were a matter of public record, as court cases and convictions are published in every paper and news website in the country.

Sparks

AFAIK convictions are not private; records are (they'd contain more data; cautions and the like wouldn't be in the public domain).

There are only a subset of convictions that would automatically disbar you from applying for a licence and all of those would be public domain information; but there could be other things that the local Super knows and which aren't public.

Equally possible however, the local Super might not like the colour of the guy's shoes and the guy doesn't want to take a garda to court over what he sees as "only a hobby" so he's walking away.

You really wouldn't be able to tell from outside.

gunny123

Sparks wrote: »

AFAIK convictions are not private; records are (they'd contain more data; cautions and the like wouldn't be in the public domain).

There are only a subset of convictions that would automatically disbar you from applying for a licence and all of those would be public domain information; but there could be other things that the local Super knows and which aren't public.

Equally possible however, the local Super might not like the colour of the guy's shoes and the guy doesn't want to take a garda to court over what he sees as "only a hobby" so he's walking away.

You really wouldn't be able to tell from outside.

I doubt the paperwork ever got within an asses roar of the supers office, so quick was his dropping of the issue, bought gun on saturday, applied monday evening, had decided to forget about it by the thursday, sort of timeline.

I know there are issues with data protection, especially with the rise of the internet and information being easily spread, but always assumed criminal convictions would be exempt.

cavan shooter

The criminal aspect of it is serious enough and you would have thought the fella should have known that his past may come back to haunt him. The licensing laws are clear in it says that a dis-entitled person are

1. Persons Under 16

2. Persons with mental health issues (and not deemed suitable from discussions with an appropriate Medical Practitioner)

3. Persons of intemperate habits....(Drink/Drugs/Rowing fighting)

4. Persons who have been convicted for various offences and who have
received custodial sentences within the previous seven (7) years and

5. Persons who are under the supervision of the Gardai or

6. Persons who are bound by a Court Order to keep the peace or to be of good
behaviour, a condition of which that such person will not have in his
possession any firearm or ammunition.


I know a lad that dropped shooting when he got married coz his wife didn't like guns.? I know another lad who lost his gun for 14 months because of his fighting after night clubs. It could be any reason and Also the I dont like the look of you that made him drop the application not necessarily criminal.

gunny123

Possibly Cavan shooter. But criminal convictions are surprisingly common, i worked in a certain engineering works for the last year of my apprenticeship. They got a contract with the central bank mint in sandyford, where everyone had to be security passed. Out of thirty five or so employees, it was only me, the van driver and one other who were approved to work there by the gardai. To say the boss was not amused is an understatement.

Gleefulprinter

Shooting isn't cheap. Maybe that is what he is concerned about. Leave him be. His business. So what if he has a record.

scwazrh

Gleefulprinter wrote: »

Shooting isn't cheap. Maybe that is what he is concerned about. Leave him be. His business. So what if he has a record.

I would agree with this . Could of changed his mind for any reason with a criminal record being one.Could as easily been a family member didn't want a firearm in the house or to be spending the money.maybe theres been some mental health issues in the past .
No ones business but his own really.

Grizzly 45

Ah, Ireland ...With our double-edged sword of data protection and privacy,and needing to know pertinent info for legitimate reasons.:rolleyes:

Criminal records are never public domain records here.If you are convicted in an open court, then it is, in most cases, public knowledge, unless the Judge orders non-disclosure to the press and the records sealed for protection of a person's name, reputation, etc.It could be multiple reasons that this fellah called it quits, doesn't have to be that he has form either.

.If the boss is worried about it, he can run it by a friendly Garda one night in the pub and just ask outright is this lad known to the Gardai.Can say he is worried about the business and possible loss of stuff or whatever.A nod will be as good as a wink to a blind man in this situation.He'll probably get a yeah or no over a pint, and that's all he will get.But what exactly, when, where, and how..That he won't get..

dodderangler

gunny123 wrote: »

A guy i know through the clay shooting is a small builder, only a couple of employees. One was fairly new to the business and after a chat about sports asked the new lad if he would like to try a round of clays.

The new guy loved it, and said it was something he would like to do again. So he joined a club and went about the process of buying a shotgun, then all of a sudden drops the whole thing.

The builder i know is now worried the new lad has a criminal record as he won't talk to him about dropping the shooting so suddenly. He has asked the guards about it, but they won't say anything either.

Are criminal records in Ireland sealed ? I thought they were a matter of public record, as court cases and convictions are published in every paper and news website in the country.

Afaik criminal records with regard to firearms and licence issues only stand if the person in question has a record of violence or theft regarding a firearm or another form of weapon where force was used.
But in saying that it does depend on the FO and area of the country. I know lads in back arse of nowhere that have gotten licences after being caught with a unlicensed firearm. Now I'm talking back arse of nowhere in co Roscommon and the person in question is a well known alcoholic.

Free-2-Flow

Maybe he told his wife he would like to spend his money on something?

juice1304

dodderangler wrote: »

Afaik criminal records with regard to firearms and licence issues only stand if the person in question has a record of violence or theft regarding a firearm or another form of weapon where force was used.
But in saying that it does depend on the FO and area of the country. I know lads in back arse of nowhere that have gotten licences after being caught with a unlicensed firearm. Now I'm talking back arse of nowhere in co Roscommon and the person in question is a well known alcoholic.

Or anything to do with drugs, he could have been caught smoking a joint as a teenager and been told no based on that.

Luckysasha

The boss man could ask him to provide a garda vetting background check “for insurance purposes”. See if anything turns up on that

Gleefulprinter

Luckysasha wrote: »

The boss man could ask him to provide a garda vetting background check “for insurance purposes”. See if anything turns up on that

The boss could mind his own business. The guy is doing his job. All he did was not by a shotgun. So what if he has a record? all a backround check will do is dig into his life. His life his business. If he has a record then he has paid his debt.

Effects

Luckysasha wrote: »

The boss man could ask him to provide a garda vetting background check “for insurance purposes”. See if anything turns up on that

Maybe the lad has had mental health issues in the past and that's why he can't get a licence. It's often hard enough for people with mental health issues to get a job. He shouldn't be singled out for something that isn't directly affecting his job.

Luckysasha

Maybe the boss man has a right to know if he has mental health issues. I’m not saying he should sack the chap just for the bosses sake and the sake of the lads he is working with. I know in my company we had two lads in the past 18 months have very severe breakdowns while out working. After that the company introduced compulsory training for all staff on how to handle and manage a situation where a person is struggling mentally. It’s not a nice thing to see a grown man crying his eyes out in the front of the van and his co workers trying to understand what is going on whilst ringing the mans wife for advice.

gunny123

Gleefulprinter wrote: »

The boss could mind his own business. The guy is doing his job. All he did was not by a shotgun. So what if he has a record? all a backround check will do is dig into his life. His life his business. If he has a record then he has paid his debt.

Ever work with a jailbird ? I had to a few years ago and it was not a nice experience.

It also cuts the other way, i did an interview in a small engineering works years ago, and was told by a friend shortly afterwards that the owner and manager was a convicted bombmaker with the ira, who was arrested after a savage fight and shoot-out with the gardai. He was released after the good friday agreement, otherwise he would still be in portlaoise.

I did not fancy being snooped on by special branch, so had no more to do with it.

gunny123

My enquiry about criminal records was a general one. The lad i know is big enough to look after himself, it just raised a question in my mind. Are criminal records private or public ? It seems they are supposed to be public, but are in reality private, unless you need security clearance for work or if you intend to move abroad.

SeaFields

I was buying a gun before and the shop told me that there was a deposit put on it previously but the lad came back into the shop a few days later after the missus had told him it was her or a gun in the house. It happens. I wouldn't worry about it op and I wouldn't dig into the guys past over it .

Jumpinjames

Typical of folk to want to pry into others private lives. I wonder is this boss squeaky clean? Correct Tax returns, complying with industry regulations, employee rights etc.... a right pillar of society I’d say.

Hitman3000

Luckysasha wrote:

The boss man could ask him to provide a garda vetting background check “for insurance purposesâ€. See if anything turns up on that

On what grounds could he request it? Garda vetting is not widely used by the building industry.

Gleefulprinter

gunny123 wrote: »

Ever work with a jailbird ? I had to a few years ago and it was not a nice experience.

It also cuts the other way, i did an interview in a small engineering works years ago, and was told by a friend shortly afterwards that the owner and manager was a convicted bombmaker with the ira, who was arrested after a savage fight and shoot-out with the gardai. He was released after the good friday agreement, otherwise he would still be in portlaoise.

I did not fancy being snooped on by special branch, so had no more to do with it.

Had a few lads working for me who were convicted. Everyone of them said they would not go back and would do anything to stay out. One was in 6 years for robbery.
That guy didn't buy a gun and people are going on about backround checks. Stupid stuff. His life his business and he hasn't given anyone any reason to go snooping into his life. If he was in jail so what? He's not now and done nothing to deserve this. Git probably doesn't even know he is being talked about here.

Luckysasha

Hitman3000 wrote: »

On what grounds could he request it? Garda vetting is not widely used by the building industry.

Maybe not on sites but I know a plumber who recently quoted for work with a letting agent looking after clients houses. He was told garda vetting would be a requirement of the tender process. More and more places are now looking for it as an arse covering exercise. Happen to know that recently DKIT in Dundalk made all their subbies even down to the catering providers to submit vetting for all their employees that would be working on campus

Hitman3000

Luckysasha wrote:

Maybe not on sites but I know a plumber who recently quoted for work with a letting agent looking after clients houses. He was told garda vetting would be a requirement of the tender process. More and more places are now looking for it as an arse covering exercise. Happen to know that recently DKIT in Dundalk made all their subbies even down to the catering providers to submit vetting for all their employees that would be working on campus

Where you are dealing with young or vulnerable people I'm aware Garda vetting is necessary never heard of anywhere else being allowed request it though. There is data protection rules.

twowheelsonly

gunny123 wrote: »

Ever work with a jailbird ? I had to a few years ago and it was not a nice experience.

I work with them every day - it's the nature of my job - and it's not as bad as people would like to make out in most cases.

I don't have the numbers / percentages but there's a huge amount of youngsters in and out of jail from about 18 to 23/24 doing 2 months, 4 months, 6 months, in and out for a few years and then they get sense and disappear from the system. It just takes them a bit longer to grow up and get a bit of cop on. I'd be willing to bet that you've worked with more than one 'jailbird' in your time. Most people have and don't even know it.

Back on topic, I'd agree that this could be any one of a number of issues including mental health or a wife that won't allow it. Just because it was a sudden turnaround doesn't mean there was criminality involved. He might just be embarrassed about the reason.

BTW, I also think that records should be sealed after X number of years without convictions, in particular if they were minor convictions or sentences of less than 2 years. No Garda worth his salt should be giving info on a nod and a wink either. People do change their ways and that's more important than nosey people still trying to drag stuff up years later.

Walter Mittys Brother

As usual, the criminal has more rights than their victims.

Hitman3000

Walter Mittys Brother wrote:

As usual, the criminal has more rights than their victims.

If that's all you got from this thread, I suggest you reread it.

Sparks

Okay, this thread's gone completely off the rails, closing it.