"do be"

Mearings

looksee wrote: »

Mod: There is a small degree of techyness creeping into the conversation - its an interesting topic, lets try and keep it civil and not too personal please. (Hmm, lets looks as though it should have an apostrophe...)

Yes we'll keep it cool or as gaeilge fuaránach.

Dial Hard

looksee wrote: »

Mod: There is a small degree of techyness creeping into the conversation - its an interesting topic, lets try and keep it civil and not too personal please. (Hmm, lets looks as though it should have an apostrophe...)

It should, it's a contraction of "let us" :pac:

GreeBo

feargale wrote: »

You grossly underestimate the timeframe of language shift.

Its got nothing to do with language shift.

The people using "do be" today are not native Irish speakers.
The didnt learn to speak English through Irish.
The are not thinking in terms of Irish.

Hence they have no reason to use "do be" other than they heard someone else incorrectly use it.

The number of people having Irish as a first language is miniscule compared to the number of people using "do be".

feargale wrote: »

Some of them do be thinking the same about people who travel on the Dort. Be nice to them when you meet them. They control that city.

I have no idea what your point is here. I'm sure its very witty though.

Triceratops Ballet

GreeBo wrote: »

Its got nothing to do with language shift.

The people using "do be" today are not native Irish speakers.
The didnt learn to speak English through Irish.
The are not thinking in terms of Irish.

Hence they have no reason to use "do be" other than they heard someone else incorrectly use it.

The number of people having Irish as a first language is miniscule compared to the number of people using "do be".

People primarily learn to speak through immersion, so if I say do-be, it's probably because my parents did, which is probably because their parents did, which is probably because their parents did, and it's entirely possible that their parents spoke Irish.
Do-be may be wrong in other dialects of English, but it's completely valid in our dialect of English, and it has a sound reason for existing. I think it's nice that the English we speak has inflections of our native language and is distinct from the English spoken elsewhere.

Mearings

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

People primarily learn to speak through immersion, so if I say do-be, it's probably because my parents did, which is probably because their parents did, which is probably because their parents did, and it's entirely possible that their parents spoke Irish.
Do-be may be wrong in other dialects of English, but it's completely valid in our dialect of English, and it has a sound reason for existing. I think it's nice that the English we speak has inflections of our native language and is distinct from the English spoken elsewhere.

But don't use do be in a job application or an exam.

GreeBo

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

People primarily learn to speak through immersion, so if I say do-be, it's probably because my parents did, which is probably because their parents did, which is probably because their parents did, and it's entirely possible that their parents spoke Irish.
Do-be may be wrong in other dialects of English, but it's completely valid in our dialect of English, and it has a sound reason for existing. I think it's nice that the English we speak has inflections of our native language and is distinct from the English spoken elsewhere.

Agreed, but people are also (at least I'm assuming I wasn't unique!) being continuously corrected when they use "improper" grammar, especially at school?

I'd correct a not native English speaker if they used improper grammar, even if it had a sound basis in their native tongue.

wexie

I know this is probably entirely out of line for a more serious forum so apologies in advance (from a non native english speaker, maybe that gives me a little bit more slack)

but the thread caught my eye and I just can't help it....

Am I really the only one to think that the usage of 'do be' should be called Sinatra syndrome?

dr.fuzzenstein

Noo wrote: »

Can you give an example of how you use "do be"?

You shouldn't use it unless you are Frank Sinatra

Doo-bee-doo-bee-doo
Doo-doo-dee-dah, dah-dah-dah-dah-dah

edit: Damn you wexie!

tedpan

An example of a sentence,

"He enjoyed smoking a do be."

gozunda

Another example of a sentence.

" Dobe is a free elf"

Source: Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets

I'll get my coat

looksee

Anyone mentions Photoshop and they get a card...

feargale

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

People primarily learn to speak through immersion, so if I say do-be, it's probably because my parents did, which is probably because their parents did, which is probably because their parents did, and it's entirely possible that their parents spoke Irish.
Do-be may be wrong in other dialects of English, but it's completely valid in our dialect of English, and it has a sound reason for existing. I think it's nice that the English we speak has inflections of our native language and is distinct from the English spoken elsewhere.

Well said. I spent my childhood in a part of rural Ireland which was then in the process of losing the last remnants of native Irish. The English I heard was peppered with Irish words, phrases and constructions used by people whose native language was English.
Words can alter their meaning over time by usage. Some words that meant one thing to Shakespeare now mean the opposite of their original meaning. Dictionaries over time, thanks to common usage, come to acknowledge the change.
I wonder if those who find "do be" etc objectionable are equally upset by what distinguishes American English from British English, or by the idiosyncracies of the English of Australia, Jamaica, Scotland, Black America, West Africa etc..
I could maybe understand, if not the outrage, at least the disapproval if "do be" didn't fulfil a purpose, fill a gap. Otherwise it has a whiff of a national inferiority complex.

Mearings

wexie wrote: »

I know this is probably entirely out of line for a more serious forum so apologies in advance (from a non native english speaker, maybe that gives me a little bit more slack)

but the thread caught my eye and I just can't help it....

Am I really the only one to think that the usage of 'do be' should be called Sinatra syndrome?

"Do be" do, by all means.

gozunda

Interesting discussion of "do be's" here

https://stancarey.wordpress.com/2015/03/13/do-be-doing-bes-habitual-aspect-in-irish-english/

Irish English, also called Hiberno-English, can express habitual aspect in present tense by enlisting Irish (Gaelic) grammar. In Irish, tá mé (which can contract to táim) means ‘I am’, literally ‘is me’. But bíonn mé (→ bím) means ‘I (habitually) am’ – a different sense of be...

MathsManiac

gozunda wrote: »

Interesting discussion of "do be's" here

https://stancarey.wordpress.com/2015/03/13/do-be-doing-bes-habitual-aspect-in-irish-english/

Thanks, Gozunda. That really is a good exploration of the form. While I don't be using this grammatical structure often, I don't much like seeing this part of our heritage criticised so vociferously. This blog entry at least makes clear that users of this verb form are in some pretty good company.