New Worldwide Handicap System

GreeBo

searay wrote: »

I wouldn't get much more in than that and 2020 will be a lot less due to Covid. My aim is to beat my handicap on every round and when thinks start to go wrong during the round it's to at least get into the bufferzone. If I miss the bufferzone by 1 shot or 20 shots, I'll get 0.1 back.

I'm aware of guys who'll pay 2/3 open singles a week during the summer in addition to the weekly singles and could get 60 plus counting rounds in.

As I understand it, under the US system, if a round goes wrong, you can effectively get more than 0.1 back per round by clocking up a worse score so it has a bigger impact on your average.

I heard of a US based 8 handicaper going to 15 within 6 months and then he "re-discovered" his form and got back to shooting below 80 regularly. That shouldn't happen under our current system.

There are advantages to the new system in that it will stop players having artificially low handicaps to qualify for scratch cups etc, but I prefer our current system.

It would have to be pretty blatant (i.e. obvious) as one bad round wont impact your handicap (since its the best 8 from last 20)

whatawaster

Just listening to the Chasing Scratch podcast (I'd recommend it btw) and one of the guys goes out on his own one evening, shoots a great round and gets cut a shot and a half. No competition, no marker. Absolutely crazy stuff. The US system is completely broken.

mike12

The problem with the US system is that most golfers are not members of clubs or play proper competitions.
I don't really play casual golf I'd have maybe 60 comps in a year for the past couple of years.
Not sure how many are qualifying but will non qualifying rounds be included if casual rounds are included.
We will all have swings where we have poor runs of forms but it will depend on if those replace poor rounds or good rounds of your best 8.
I would replace my 20 rounds in 5 weeks during the summer

Golf is my Game

searay wrote: »

I'm aware of guys who'll pay 2/3 open singles a week during the summer in addition to the weekly singles and could get 60 plus counting rounds in.

There very very few of them to be fair and I know from our club doing the annual review when you do the report you see lads who you really thing are regular week in week out players buy they only add up to like thirteen qualifying tournaments. And they are playing a fair bit. But then their playing some classics, matchplays some weekends, their on teams, away for a few weeks holidays in the summer not playing, and non qualifying in the winter. So 8-15 is probably the majority really regular enough typical golfers. You will have some in the 30 or what ever but its only one or two very rear lads will have 50 or more and their usually retired lads who yes are playing opens here there and everywhere during the summer and going out to one of the links courses near enough to get a few qualifying comps during the winter when were on non qualifying. But very very very few. Loads of even keen enough lads will only have 6 or 8 cards in.

Golfgraffix

Golf is my Game wrote: »

There very very few of them to be fair anin.

We have one member who always has close to 90 qualifying rounds. I’d say we have at least 50% of members with 40+ qualifying rounds per year

Golf is my Game

Golfgraffix wrote: »

We have one member who always has close to 90 qualifying rounds. I’d say we have at least 50% of members with 40+ qualifying rounds per year

Links course with round the year qualifying ?

slingerz

I think we are all in the same boat from reading this. Guessing at how things will work here rather than clarity.

The way we play golf from open competitions, scratch cups, inter club events, club match play, 4Ball etc all need to be specifically dealt with by the GUI for clubs. There is a fear among the regular club golfer that padding of handicaps will be a lot easier for guys in this system

Seve OB

slingerz wrote: »

Guessing at how things will work here rather than clarity.

This.

Implementing the system is one thing and I’m sure there is a lot still being done behind the scenes.

But at this stage, with roll out happening all around the world, surely CONGU and the GUI must know what the procedures will be.

If they don’t then they are amateurs. If they do........ why the hell not just tell us what we can expect.

Golf is my Game

slingerz wrote: »

There is a fear among the regular club golfer that padding of handicaps will be a lot easier for guys in this system

I think there's a bit of the old fear for fears sake because it's an unknown system to us here and people in Ireland are always paranoid about bandits padding handicaps. One, dont think it happens as much as people fear and they tend to jump to the easy conclusion that because someone shoots a 43 in a captains or whatever then he must be a badnit. Bud someone was going to shoot that 43. Also most people don't understand the system anyway so have totally crazy ignorance of how the congu works
Two, while it does seem handicaps will rise by more in whs, not sure that in real life they rise much faster. To flush out a good score and a win or what ever to eradicate a cut will still take 12 or 15 card probably. So that's a lot of **** golf going out for no point other than fixing your handicap. That's a lot of time to put in to not competing yet paying in and so on so that you can have a win next year some time. Just go and buy the piece of crystal or GPS watch and be done with it if that's what your after.

CalamariFritti

GreeBo wrote: »

I suppose, depending on into it you are, you will know what score is dropping off your 8/20 so will know what you need to beat/equal to keep your handicap?

Wont be as easy to know, especially playing on different courses but assuming the tools are in place and work well, should be possible.

Agree with what GreeBo said.

You will roughly know what your last 20 are and where your current 8 best in it are too. And you'll know for example today I'm on a free one cos current number 20 was 24 points anyway. Or the next 3 are more or less free ones. Or for example you'll know the worst result in your best 8 is say 30 points. So you'll know anything better will reduce your index. Or you'll know your best result in the last 20 is going to get pushed out today and you need to deliver so you don't drop.

We will discover its own little dynamics over time. I like CONGU cos it works and its easy but I'm not dissing the new approach just yet. Might be fun even.

GreeBo

Is there an equivalent of 0.1 for an NR?
We might see reverse bandits, lads off low digits who can't play near it.

Russman

Golf is my Game wrote: »

I think there's a bit of the old fear for fears sake because it's an unknown system to us here and people in Ireland are always paranoid about bandits padding handicaps. One, dont think it happens as much as people fear and they tend to jump to the easy conclusion that because someone shoots a 43 in a captains or whatever then he must be a badnit. Bud someone was going to shoot that 43. Also most people don't understand the system anyway so have totally crazy ignorance of how the congu works
Two, while it does seem handicaps will rise by more in whs, not sure that in real life they rise much faster. To flush out a good score and a win or what ever to eradicate a cut will still take 12 or 15 card probably. So that's a lot of **** golf going out for no point other than fixing your handicap. That's a lot of time to put in to not competing yet paying in and so on so that you can have a win next year some time. Just go and buy the piece of crystal or GPS watch and be done with it if that's what your after.

Totally agree with all this and especially the bolded part. Intentionally playing bad golf for 15 rounds just to get shots back for an important round that you’ll probably play sh1te in anyway just seems like a lot of effort. Every club has a couple of guys seen as “bandits” and it’s usually because of how good they were 20 years ago or because they drove a green on a par 4 one day in the company of a bar-talker. Nobody remembers Joe has two new hips, and a dodgy knee and got a few shots back over the years, they all remember he used to play off 9 and how can he be 14 now.

GreeBo wrote: »

Is there an equivalent of 0.1 for an NR?
We might see reverse bandits, lads off low digits who can't play near it.

I think you’ll see this alright. There was an article (maybe even posted on here, but I think it was on golfwrx maybe) about scratch players. It was making the point that theoretically, on a course with the right ratings, someone could shoot eight rounds of 76 as their best rounds and twelve rounds in the 90s and play off scratch. I didn’t even do the maths or see if it was true but presumably if any of us mere mortals saw this player we would never think of him as a scratch golfer !

Rippeditup

Russman wrote: »

Totally agree with all this and especially the bolded part. Intentionally playing bad golf for 15 rounds just to get shots back for an important round that you’ll probably play sh1te in anyway just seems like a lot of effort. Every club has a couple of guys seen as “bandits” and it’s usually because of how good they were 20 years ago or because they drove a green on a par 4 one day in the company of a bar-talker. Nobody remembers Joe has two new hips, and a dodgy knee and got a few shots back over the years, they all remember he used to play off 9 and how can he be 14 now.



I think you’ll see this alright. There was an article (maybe even posted on here, but I think it was on golfwrx maybe) about scratch players. It was making the point that theoretically, on a course with the right ratings, someone could shoot eight rounds of 76 as their best rounds and twelve rounds in the 90s and play off scratch. I didn’t even do the maths or see if it was true but presumably if any of us mere mortals saw this player we would never think of him as a scratch golfer !

Isn’t this the joke about Trump as he has a 2 handicap which is actually lower than Jack Nicklaus on the US handicap system as he registers his lower scores (along with other cheating methods)

Rikand

Worked out my exact for the craic this evening in the new system. I currently play off 6.4 - under the new system i should be off 9.2. Used my last 20 rounds up on golfnet to work it out.

Counting rounds are :: +11, +7, +11, +11, +6, +8, +9, +10.

Need to produce some good rounds soon as the +10 and +9 will be gone in 4 rounds time or else I'll be out to a 10 handicap for the first time in almost 20 years

Seve OB

Rikand wrote: »

Worked out my exact for the craic this evening in the new system. I currently play off 6.4 - under the new system i should be off 9.2. Used my last 20 rounds up on golfnet to work it out.

Counting rounds are :: +11, +7, +11, +11, +6, +8, +9, +10.

Need to produce some good rounds soon as the +10 and +9 will be gone in 4 rounds time or else I'll be out to a 10 handicap for the first time in almost 20 years

Yea but did you work out the slope and course rating, weather rating etc for those rounds also?

gypsy79

Rikand wrote: »

Worked out my exact for the craic this evening in the new system. I currently play off 6.4 - under the new system i should be off 9.2. Used my last 20 rounds up on golfnet to work it out.

Counting rounds are :: +11, +7, +11, +11, +6, +8, +9, +10.

Need to produce some good rounds soon as the +10 and +9 will be gone in 4 rounds time or else I'll be out to a 10 handicap for the first time in almost 20 years

You also probably arent a 6 handicapper based on your last 20 rounds unless you been playing in horrendous weather

You have almost certainly added one shot a year in both years??

The one shot rule has kept lots of people artificially low

Golf is my Game

gypsy79 wrote: »

You also probably arent a 6 handicapper based on your last 20 rounds unless you been playing in horrendous weather

You have almost certainly added one shot a year in both years??

The one shot rule has kept lots of people artificially low

Yes Id say thats not a stable six and that six doesnt reflect your last 20 scores, and so is more from the past and the congu system hasnt caught up with you. Possibly should have gotten and extra shot in the annual review. Would you say your playing the same in those 20 rounds to ones a year or more ago when your six was stable ? When you have those scores that are your best missing the buffer zone by a fair bit it looks more like your an eight anyway. Did you have may point ones that were discarded by the computer in the last two years ?

paulos53

I have no idea if it is accurate but I have been using this site to track my new handicap: https://www.calculator.net/golf-handicap-calculator.html

I used the course SSS instead of the Course Rating and the difference in CSS for the weather adjustment. Not 100% accurate but should be close

It gives me a new handicap of 13.3 versus my current 11.3

Rikand

gypsy79 wrote: »

You also probably arent a 6 handicapper based on your last 20 rounds unless you been playing in horrendous weather

You have almost certainly added one shot a year in both years??

The one shot rule has kept lots of people artificially low

I got back out to 7 at the end of 2018 and then had one good round of golf at the end of the year and straight back to 5again.

But I haven't been a 5/6 handicapper for at least 3 years (or since the second kid was born.) One good round of golf has kept me at a handicap that I can no longer play to.

Believe me, I cannot wait for the new handicap system to come through.

Rikand

Golf is my Game wrote: »

Yes Id say thats not a stable six and that six doesnt reflect your last 20 scores, and so is more from the past and the congu system hasnt caught up with you. Possibly should have gotten and extra shot in the annual review. Would you say your playing the same in those 20 rounds to ones a year or more ago when your six was stable ? When you have those scores that are your best missing the buffer zone by a fair bit it looks more like your an eight anyway. Did you have may point ones that were discarded by the computer in the last two years ?

Not too many. I've only been playing 10-15 comps per year because I'm busy at home. When I was keeping a 4/5 handicap I was playing 40-50 comps a year. Sometimes even more as I used to travel to every open in the Midlands and played every day lol. (My boards.ie golf society handicap was scr/1).

Golf has been very frustrating for me for almost 5 years now as I'm not playing enough golf to play to my handicap and only being able to get back 1 shot a year is even more frustrating. If I wanted the shot back, I would have had to have asked for it and I suppose I just never thought of doing that. Probably still a bit of pride there too. I still feel like a 5 handicapper on the inside....even though really I'm not even close.

Rikand

Seve OB wrote: »

Yea but did you work out the slope and course rating, weather rating etc for those rounds also?

113 in athlone(though I think the rating should be much harder) Weather is the only thing that could affect me

DuckSlice

Rikand wrote: »

113 in athlone(though I think the rating should be much harder) Weather is the only thing that could affect me

I think 113 seems to be the standard. I have seen this on a few courses, that are much easier than Athlone.

Wombatman

Seve OB wrote: »

Yea but did you work out the slope and course rating, weather rating etc for those rounds also?

Any idea what the plan is to bring handicaps forward into the new system?

Bring you current handicap forward and count it 7 times with your first new score, 6 times with your first and second and so on until you have 8 scores under the new system?

2nd of Nov 2020 was the date this new system was due to be implemented in Ireland. Thats just over 3 months away. I've heard very little about it during the pandemic.

Does anyone know if it's still going ahead on that date?

CalamariFritti

I don't think we can accurately calculate our new handicap (index) if we don't know course rating and slope rating. Standard scratch does not compare for results calculation. Also based on slope we will be getting extra shots to start with.

But even using CR == Par and Slope == 113 it seems that most people's index will go up from their current number. Which will increase further when slope comes into it on tougher courses. I don't think the 2 values compare. Different systems.

RGS

Deleted User wrote: »

2nd of Nov 2020 was the date this new system was due to be implemented in Ireland. Thats just over 3 months away. I've heard very little about it during the pandemic.

Does anyone know if it's still going ahead on that date?

The GUI held a zoom conference a few weeks ago and confirmed the system will start on 2 November 2020 and also stated the ratings would be issued in July.

Presume the lockdown hindered the process a bit.

What happens in this system if you post a number of NR's.

martinkop

https://www.whs.com/articles/2020/no_score_submitted.html

Seve OB

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What happens in this system if you post a number of NR's.

What do you mean a number of NRs.
You mark your score for every hole you finish. If you scratch a hole then you get given a net double just as you do now.

No reason not to be submitting your score.

Poker Face

Wombatman wrote: »

Any idea what the plan is to bring handicaps forward into the new system?

Bring you current handicap forward and count it 7 times with your first new score, 6 times with your first and second and so on until you have 8 scores under the new system?

When the new system starts your best 8 scores from your last 20 rounds you have played will be used to calculate your Handicap Index.