New Worldwide Handicap System

BrandNewMedium

tbayers wrote: »

Knew this would be thrown back at me. So if a person went down to 3 and know they haven't a chance to get on senior cup team you would hold that against them? Is it not about having the most fun. Thats really a separate topic but still doesn't answer my question

As someone operating at Bruen level, competitively but certainly not excellently, I don't enjoy being hammered by lads who are really Junior or Senior cup level in ability but holding on to their handicap because it's hard to make the team.

What you've described is cheating.

IAmTitleist

Seve OB wrote: »

pretty sure i read that they "hope" to have it available beforehand. :rolleyes:

TBH, this is all 11th hour stuff from the GUI and really poor information being given out till now. and even still, they don't know what the full sp is. just look at some of the questions being asked of them on other platforms. think the best one i saw was where someone asked about winter qualifying and their reply was to point them to an article which said that golfers should ask their local union

other regions around the world in the main had a small adjustment to get in line with this system so it wasn't a major change for golfers to get familiar with. CONGU have to start from scratch and they don't seem to bothered about it at all.

I have mentioned the new handicaps so many times to golfers in all walks of life over the past year or so. I would say that less than 10% knew this was coming and probably at least 50% still don't know it is coming.

Anyone know the answer to this? Will non qualifying scores be included in the makeup of your handicap?

I say this because in winter my club reduces to 14 holes, short tees, winter greens etc and sometimes the scoring for 14 holes can 36/7 points.

So if i shoot 28 points i'm miles off the pace...

blackwhite

IAmTitleist wrote: »

Anyone know the answer to this? Will non qualifying scores be included in the makeup of your handicap?

I say this because in winter my club reduces to 14 holes, short tees, winter greens etc and sometimes the scoring for 14 holes can 36/7 points.

So if i shoot 28 points i'm miles off the pace...

Any rounds which wouldn't have been "qualifying" under the old system must be pre-declared if you want them to be counted in the new system.

Competitions not over 9 or 18 holes are considered social golf - so only count if you pre-register for them to be included for handicap.


https://www.golfnet.ie/Documents/WHS%20Frequently%20Asked%20Questions.pdf

Do I have to submit every score for every round I play?
No - you will have to submit all singles competition scores and will have the choice to submit social/recreational scores including those from society, association and alliances. All scores must be pre-registered.

What is an Acceptable Score?
This is the same as the current “Qualifying Score” under CONGU UHS. An Acceptable Score will be any singles competition score 9 or 18 holes and any pre-registered social score returned from any tee that has a course and Slope rating for your gender, played by the Rules of Golf, over a minimum number of holes with at least one other person (authorized marker)

paulos53

This document says that Winter Rules will not be qualifying


https://www.congu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Handicapping-Advice.pdf


The full section is on pages 22 & 23 but here is the relevant information

Scores returned when preferred lies are in operation will be valid as Acceptable Scores only when a Local Rule has been made and published in accordance with Rules of Golf Model Local Rule E-3 of the Committee Procedures as follows:

“When a player’s ball lies in a part of the general area cut to fairway height or less [or identify a specific area such as ‘on the fairway of the 6th hole’], the player may take free relief once by placing the original ball or another ball in and playing it from this relief area:

The use of this Local Rule outside the fairway in the general area is not recommended as it may result in a player receiving free relief from areas where a ball might otherwise be unplayable (such as in areas of bushes or trees). Scores returned under such a provision would not be Acceptable Scores for handicapping purposes.

So placing on the fairway is acceptable but not placing in the rough

prawnsambo

paulos53 wrote: »

This document says that Winter Rules will not be qualifying

https://www.congu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Handicapping-Advice.pdf

The full section is on pages 22 & 23 but here is the relevant information

So placing on the fairway is acceptable but not placing in the rough

Also lift clean and replace in the rough under model local rule E2.

Winter rules are a collection of rules that may apply during the winter months. Some of these rules mean that qualifying competition is not possible. Some can be in place and scores can be qualifying. There is no change (as far as I can see) with the WHS and these rules. The same conditions apply to make a competition qualifying or non-qualifying.

IAmTitleist

So i could play 50 times under the old "non qualifying" rules in winter and none of these would count towards my 8 best rounds out of 20?

prawnsambo

IAmTitleist wrote: »

So i could play 50 times under the old "non qualifying" rules in winter and none of these would count towards my 8 best rounds out of 20?

No.

That's no different from the present rules. Non-qualifying is non-qualifying.

Rikand

tbayers wrote: »

Knew this would be thrown back at me. So if a person went down to 3 and know they haven't a chance to get on senior cup team you would hold that against them? Is it not about having the most fun. Thats really a separate topic but still doesn't answer my question

It's not about what's fun for you. It's about what's fun for everyone. I can tell you it's not much fun getting schooled by a 2/3 handicapper in junior cup/jimmy bruen because they inflate their handicap to 5 so THEY can have more fun and win matches easily.

Golf is supposed to be about trying to be the best golfer you can be. That's what is supposed to be fun about golf. If that's not what is fun for you, you should quit or at least not play team events because that is not fair on everyone else

Shanee.

I’m fairly new to golf only started playing this year and the club I joined just gave me a handicap of 18 even though I put up terrible scores (not on purpose) on the 3 cards I submitted. There’s no way I can play to 18 particularly as I am new to the sport. How will this new system effect me ?

Shanee.

Shanee. wrote: »

I’m fairly new to golf only started playing this year and the club I joined just gave me a handicap of 18 even though I put up terrible scores (not on purpose) on the 3 cards I submitted. There’s no way I can play to 18 particularly as I am new to the sport. How will this new system effect me ?

You can go up to 23 max in the first year.

prawnsambo

benji79 wrote: »

What will happen somebody who has just put in 3 cards to get their handicap set up? They won’t have 8 cards to pick from

They have to play qualifying rounds. Cards submitted for initial handicap allocation are not individually logged with GolfNet. Just the handicap derived from the adjusted best card. So there aren't three cards on their handicap record.

martinkop

Could see this impacting competition entry numbers at local clubs.

Had to enter comps previously to maintain handicap, but now you can maintain handicap via social golf, so will people stop putting in the 5,6,7 euro or whatever, if they don't think they can compete each week and just play social golf albeit against your handicap.

mike12

martinkop wrote: »

Could see this impacting competition entry numbers at local clubs.

Had to enter comps previously to maintain handicap, but now you can maintain handicap via social golf, so will people stop putting in the 5,6,7 euro or whatever, if they don't think they can compete each week and just play social golf albeit against your handicap.

Think you will find guys who play a lot of golf mid week will love being able to use the rounds for handicap.
I think most clubs you can't play at the weekend and not be in the comp, I know you can't at my club.

mike12

I don't think it is possible to work out your handicap with the scoring difficulty on the day can you.
I have tried and have ended up with my current exact to find out the rating and slope weren't official as they were only at the course on Monday.
To be honest I'd say a large % of golfers don't know how the current system works.
Bad round .1 good round cut is as much as a lot know

prawnsambo

mike12 wrote: »

I don't think it is possible to work out your handicap with the scoring difficulty on the day can you.
I have tried and have ended up with my current exact to find out the rating and slope weren't official as they were only at the course on Monday.
To be honest I'd say a large % of golfers don't know how the current system works.
Bad round .1 good round cut is as much as a lot know

Yeah. But at least you still only have one number to remember - your handicap index. Working out your course handicap will be done when you log in for a competition and clubs will have ready reckoners for those who aren't or just want to know beforehand. It's not that complicated for the general golfer and in some respects it's easier than the current system. Like how many people currently know what their buffer is and what the stableford adjustment does?

blue note

I think you're right. How I see this working is that people will log into the computer and click on accept handicap, entry comp. After their round they'll enter their score.

Most people will barely notice a difference.

prawnsambo

blue note wrote: »

I think you're right. How I see this working is that people will log into the computer and click on accept handicap, entry comp. After their round they'll enter their score.

Most people will barely notice a difference.

Of course there will be the few who'll scream blue bloody murder when they're told that their handicap is lower for a particular course.

finglashoop

prawnsambo wrote: »

Of course there will be the few who'll scream blue bloody murder when they're told that their handicap is lower for a particular course.

Ill be one of the ones accepting whatever the computer tells me.

Is the slope rating with weather etc calculated after the days play when all scores are in or before?

DuckSlice

prawnsambo wrote: »

Of course there will be the few who'll scream blue bloody murder when they're told that their handicap is lower for a particular course.

Defo! I hope I get cut, probably one of the few people that I know that hopes it happens.

hurleronditch

finglashoop wrote: »

Ill be one of the ones accepting whatever the computer tells me.

Is the slope rating with weather etc calculated after the days play when all scores are in or before?

No it’s a fixed number, year round based on each set of tees for each course.

There has been talk of some form of adjustment for course conditions but I haven’t seen the evidence.

The slope system is in use worldwide without an adjustment for the weather or conditions on the day, I reckon Ireland should just do the same. It all averages out in the long run. I assume the slope factors in a degree of normalised weather. If you play out of Corballis and on average theres a 12mph north easterly wind, some day it might be 5mph and westerly and another it might be 25 and northerly. You just takes your chances

Seve OB

hurleronditch wrote: »

No it’s a fixed number, year round based on each set of tees for each course.

There has been talk of some form of adjustment for course conditions but I haven’t seen the evidence.

The slope system is in use worldwide without an adjustment for the weather or conditions on the day, I reckon Ireland should just do the same. It all averages out in the long run. I assume the slope factors in a degree of normalised weather. If you play out of Corballis and on average theres a 12mph north easterly wind, some day it might be 5mph and westerly and another it might be 25 and northerly. You just takes your chances

You obviously haven’t read any of the documentation.
There is a playing conditions adjustment which will be in play.

paulos53

hurleronditch wrote: »

There has been talk of some form of adjustment for course conditions but I haven’t seen the evidence.

The slope system is in use worldwide without an adjustment for the weather or conditions on the day, I reckon Ireland should just do the same.

Playing Conditions Calculation (PCC) is part of the new system and is already being used worldwide with WHS


It will be very similar to how CSS works now. i.e. It will be based on the scores submitted that day and will result in a change in the range of -1 to +3 to the Score Differentials

Edit: SeveOB got there before me

hurleronditch

paulos53 wrote: »

Playing Conditions Calculation (PCC) is part of the new system and is already being used worldwide with WHS


It will be very similar to how CSS works now. i.e. It will be based on the scores submitted that day and will result in a change in the range of -1 to +3 to the Score Differentials

Edit: SeveOB got there before me

Sorry I didn’t explain or express myself very well, I knew there was an adjustment but I just haven’t read enough about it. If it’s anything like the Us system I reckon it will he rarely used but maybe I’m wrong

prawnsambo

hurleronditch wrote: »

Sorry I didn’t explain or express myself very well, I knew there was an adjustment but I just haven’t read enough about it. If it’s anything like the Us system I reckon it will he rarely used but maybe I’m wrong

Will be applied to every competition where eight or more people take part.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgC8KydD87A

slingerz

I can’t for the life of me work out what my handicap index would be currently. I know it’s the average of my best 8 of 20 but is that in terms of points or shots vs par and how is the differential calculated for each of those rounds?

I have the course rating and the slope.

gypsy79

prawnsambo wrote: »

Will be applied to every competition where eight or more people take part.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgC8KydD87A

That tells you absolutely nothing

My understanding is that it will be exactly the same as adjustment to get from SSS to CSS

Seve OB

gypsy79 wrote: »

That tells you absolutely nothing

My understanding is that it will be exactly the same as adjustment to get from SSS to CSS

whilst i agree with you that a lot of the information tells very little from a practical point of view...... can i ask where you get your understanding the it will be exactly the same as current css/sss?

dan_ep82

slingerz wrote: »

I can’t for the life of me work out what my handicap index would be currently. I know it’s the average of my best 8 of 20 but is that in terms of points or shots vs par and how is the differential calculated for each of those rounds?

I have the course rating and the slope.

https://www.calculator.net/golf-handicap-calculator.html

Plug em in there

prawnsambo

gypsy79 wrote: »

That tells you absolutely nothing

My understanding is that it will be exactly the same as adjustment to get from SSS to CSS

Well it tells the OP that it will be used a bit more than rarely. Which is why I linked it.

The exact calculation will be carried out automatically, but is limited to scores from players with a handicap of 36 or better, provided that there are more than eight:

1. Calculate the expected score for each eligible player.
2. Calculate the expected standard deviation of Score Differentials at the golf course, incorporating all applicable Slope Ratings.
3. Establish how many players scored better or worse than expected on the day.
4. The proportion of players submitting a score equal to, better than or worse than their expected scoring range determines whether a PCC adjustment is required.
5. If an adjustment is required, determine how much harder or easier the golf course played that day.
6. Based on these calculations, determine any final PCC adjustment required for play on that day.
7. A PCC adjustment is applied as a whole number

There seems to be a suggestion inherent in this calculation that if there are frequent PCC adjustments in a particular direction on a given course, that this may trigger a review of course and slope ratings for that course or set of tees.

DuckSlice

Has anyone got the link handy for the list of courses with slope and course rating?