New Worldwide Handicap System

prawnsambo

finglashoop wrote: »

Why are they reviewing?
Best 8 from 20 on a rolling 20 scored should require no intervention i would have thought

I would imagine there are a number of reasons for this. ESRs were mentioned above although they are reported to have been taken into account in the WHS calculations. The impact of the one stroke limit has to be considered. Generally these are dealt with in the annual review, but I reckon the start of WHS would work as a substitute for this. Players who have few rounds in the current season and have been assessed over more than one year (the look-back was to be up to three years) may have inaccurate handicaps. And then there's the possibility that slope ratings aren't as accurate as they should be (and I think that's probably true anecdotally anyway) so large variances would highlight this. If you remember, the advice was not to put course and slope ratings on scorecards as they would be under review in the initial period.

Finally, the highlighted variances would be in the order of more than three strokes, so this would not affect too many imo.

GreeBo

I guess it would only be higher handicaps that would see a 3+ shot change.

finglashoop

prawnsambo wrote: »

I would imagine there are a number of reasons for this. ESRs were mentioned above although they are reported to have been taken into account in the WHS calculations. The impact of the one stroke limit has to be considered. Generally these are dealt with in the annual review, but I reckon the start of WHS would work as a substitute for this. Players who have few rounds in the current season and have been assessed over more than one year (the look-back was to be up to three years) may have inaccurate handicaps. And then there's the possibility that slope ratings aren't as accurate as they should be (and I think that's probably true anecdotally anyway) so large variances would highlight this. If you remember, the advice was not to put course and slope ratings on scorecards as they would be under review in the initial period.

Finally, the highlighted variances would be in the order of more than three strokes, so this would not affect too many imo.

But will it not be a constant recalculation when you play a game unless best 8 stay the same. So if manual intervention is there, how does the system keep that in the next calculation?

spacecoyote

Was running my scores through the calculator to see where I'm likely to be at. One thing I've noted is that I have an NR from a society outing earlier in the year, when we played Portmarnock, which would be among my last 20 qualifiers.

We played the society outing, and I forgot to put my score in to the computer afterwards (was a bit distracted as it was the first society outing of the year & was doing presentations, etc...) Any ideas on how that NR would be treated from a calculation perspective. Will it just be skipped, so I should exclude it from the the calculation and include another one at the end, or would I get some sort of default score of Net-Double for every hole for the round?

Curious if anyone knows the treatment for initial calculation purposes?

I excluded it for the purpose of trying to get an approximation, and came up with 9.1 (currently at 10.3)

GreeBo

spacecoyote wrote: »

Was running my scores through the calculator to see where I'm likely to be at. One thing I've noted is that I have an NR from a society outing earlier in the year, when we played Portmarnock, which would be among my last 20 qualifiers.

We played the society outing, and I forgot to put my score in to the computer afterwards (was a bit distracted as it was the first society outing of the year & was doing presentations, etc...) Any ideas on how that NR would be treated from a calculation perspective. Will it just be skipped, so I should exclude it from the the calculation and include another one at the end, or would I get some sort of default score of Net-Double for every hole for the round?

Curious if anyone knows the treatment for initial calculation purposes?

I excluded it for the purpose of trying to get an approximation, and came up with 9.1 (currently at 10.3)

From the systems point of view that shouldnt be part of your best 8?

Seve OB

spacecoyote wrote: »

Was running my scores through the calculator to see where I'm likely to be at. One thing I've noted is that I have an NR from a society outing earlier in the year, when we played Portmarnock, which would be among my last 20 qualifiers.

We played the society outing, and I forgot to put my score in to the computer afterwards (was a bit distracted as it was the first society outing of the year & was doing presentations, etc...) Any ideas on how that NR would be treated from a calculation perspective. Will it just be skipped, so I should exclude it from the the calculation and include another one at the end, or would I get some sort of default score of Net-Double for every hole for the round?

Curious if anyone knows the treatment for initial calculation purposes?

I excluded it for the purpose of trying to get an approximation, and came up with 9.1 (currently at 10.3)

it would be skipped, as you need to have at least 10 holes played i believe for it to count

GreeBo wrote: »

From the systems point of view that shouldnt be part of your best 8?

true, but skipping or including could make a difference as it will bring in another card by skipping it.

macslash

spacecoyote wrote: »

Was running my scores through the calculator to see where I'm likely to be at. One thing I've noted is that I have an NR from a society outing earlier in the year, when we played Portmarnock, which would be among my last 20 qualifiers.

We played the society outing, and I forgot to put my score in to the computer afterwards (was a bit distracted as it was the first society outing of the year & was doing presentations, etc...) Any ideas on how that NR would be treated from a calculation perspective. Will it just be skipped, so I should exclude it from the the calculation and include another one at the end, or would I get some sort of default score of Net-Double for every hole for the round?

Curious if anyone knows the treatment for initial calculation purposes?

I excluded it for the purpose of trying to get an approximation, and came up with 9.1 (currently at 10.3)

Where can you find this calculator? Thanks

blue note

I'm totally getting shots back. Average of 29.5 points from my last 20 rounds, 19 of them on an easy course. Average of my best 8 is 34.25, 7 on an easy course.

And I deserve the shots too. Average 26 points in my last 5 competitive rounds.

willabur

macslash wrote: »

Where can you find this calculator? Thanks

https://www.calculator.net/golf-handicap-calculator.html

spacecoyote

Seve OB wrote: »

it would be skipped, as you need to have at least 10 holes played i believe for it to count



true, but skipping or including could make a difference as it will bring in another card by skipping it.

That's it, the round wouldn't be in my best 8,but it bumps the other rounds down a round, as it's the 10th round in my lineup.

prawnsambo

finglashoop wrote: »

But will it not be a constant recalculation when you play a game unless best 8 stay the same. So if manual intervention is there, how does the system keep that in the next calculation?

It would be pretty much like an ESR or an annual review change under CONGU, but unlike CONGU will drop off when newer rounds are logged.

macslash

Using that calculator above, I'm set to gain 5 shots? It can't be right can it?

Does anyone know if there is an app or calculator available that when you input your latest score the 20th score drops out and you can recalculate?

I have used the calculator but it would be hard to maintain on an ongoing basis unless you move all the entries down by 1 each time which is not practical. I know we will have out HI updated each day but just for monitoring purposes.

I have had a terrible year Golf wise. Started off at 7.2, have been maxed out at 8.2 for some time. Worked out HI last week at 10.9. Had a couple of reasonable rounds at the weekend but still out of buffer zone. HI has changed to 10.4 now.

PabloAndRoy

While I had some time recently I made a google spreadsheet to keep a track of my predicted WHS HI.

Here is a copy of it:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-64dPotwKyAtP2wTAqGrgPU88TuPQbQVqTb1iya2TTI/edit?usp=sharing

You can make a copy of it to your own Google Drive and edit with your own dates/scores/slopes/course rating. (File->Make a Copy)

Every time I complete a new round I insert that where it says "Oldest" on the left

It only works for 18 hole comps, but it will give you your current HI according to the WHS rules.

Those are just sample sccores, not mine. I am a much higher handicapper than 11.

prawnsambo

macslash wrote: »

Using that calculator above, I'm set to gain 5 shots? It can't be right can it?

You have to remember to use adjusted gross: nett double bogey for holes that were scratched or were above nett double bogey in strokeplay.

prawnsambo

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

While I had some time recently I made a google spreadsheet to keep a track of my predicted WHS HI.

Here is a copy of it:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-64dPotwKyAtP2wTAqGrgPU88TuPQbQVqTb1iya2TTI/edit?usp=sharing

You can make a copy of it to your own Google Drive and edit with your own dates/scores/slopes/course rating. (File->Make a Copy)

Every time I complete a new round I insert that where it says "Oldest" on the left

It only works for 18 hole comps, but it will give you your current HI according to the WHS rules.

Those are just sample sccores, not mine. I am a much higher handicapper than 11.

Very helpful

Or this one which is an excel spreadsheet which people can download and play around with and which works up to the 20 rounds and beyond using all the steps in the handicap index calculation from the minimum of three rounds. There's a column in it for the PCC (similar to CSS) in there too which will make it a bit more accurate. Using CSS-SSS is probably the most accurate.

PabloAndRoy

prawnsambo wrote: »

Very helpful

Or this one which is an excel spreadsheet which people can download and play around with and which works up to the 20 rounds and beyond using all the steps in the handicap index calculation from the minimum of three rounds. There's a column in it for the PCC (similar to CSS) in there too which will make it a bit more accurate. Using CSS-SSS is probably the most accurate.

I didn't take into account the PCC as we havent been receiving it. I really only did this to get a handle on where I would start. It's not clear if all these PCCs will retrospectively calculated when our HIs are calculated in a couple of weeks time.

prawnsambo

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

I didn't take into account the PCC as we havent been receiving it. I really only did this to get a handle on where I would start. It's not clear if all these PCCs will retrospectively calculated when our HIs are calculated in a couple of weeks time.

I believe there was some indication from the GUI a while ago that a PCC type calculation would be applied based on the formula I posted above. Hazy on it now, but it was on this forum iirc.

macslash

prawnsambo wrote: »

You have to remember to use adjusted gross: nett double bogey for holes that were scratched or were above nett double bogey in strokeplay.

Ya I did that !

gypsy79

I have one I use for calculating mine that is based on Golfnet results

If you send me on your golfnet results (as many as possible) I can fire in your results and email it back to you

PM for email

prawnsambo

macslash wrote: »

Ya I did that !

So we now move on to how sh1t your year was.

Don't worry, can't be as sh1t as mine. My golf never recovered from the last lockdown. couldn't hit a drive into the right county.

PabloAndRoy

gypsy79 wrote: »

I have one I use for calculating mine that is based on Golfnet results

If you send me on your golfnet results (as many as possible) I can fire in your results and email it back to you

PM for email

My golfnet results does not show my adjusted gross for stableford.

Is that my club's issue or what?

gypsy79

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

My golfnet results does not show my adjusted gross for stableford.

Is that my club's issue or what?

You dont need one for stableford as the scoring mathod automatically handles scratches

NO DATE COMP VEN SSS CSS TYP GS 19 AG STAB PAR GD ND HA REH RPH
35 18/10/2020 Men's Back 9 Hole 275 69 n/a Q9H - - - 24 70 30 12 0 18.2 18
34 17/10/2020 Members Only Stableford 275 70 70 QSH - - - 31 70 23 5 0.1 18.2 18
33 15/10/2020 Mens Single Stableford Open 223 73 73 QSA - - - 36 73 18 0 0 18.1 18
32 11/10/2020 Dave O'Rourke (Strokes) 275 70 70 QMH 95 -2 93 - - 23 5 0.1 18.1 18


You can see the clause 19 adjustment for my strokes round

Yes thinks havent been going well lately

PabloAndRoy

gypsy79 wrote: »

You dont need one for stableford as the scoring mathod automatically handles scratches

NO DATE COMP VEN SSS CSS TYP GS 19 AG STAB PAR GD ND HA REH RPH
35 18/10/2020 Men's Back 9 Hole 275 69 n/a Q9H - - - 24 70 30 12 0 18.2 18
34 17/10/2020 Members Only Stableford 275 70 70 QSH - - - 31 70 23 5 0.1 18.2 18
33 15/10/2020 Mens Single Stableford Open 223 73 73 QSA - - - 36 73 18 0 0 18.1 18
32 11/10/2020 Dave O'Rourke (Strokes) 275 70 70 QMH 95 -2 93 - - 23 5 0.1 18.1 18


You can see the clause 19 adjustment for my strokes round

Yes thinks havent been going well lately

Sure, but how can you calculate the WHS HI without the actual adjusted gross, slope rating and course rating, none of which are in the golfnet results table that I can see?

gypsy79

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

Sure, but how can you calculate the WHS HI without the actual adjusted gross, slope rating and course rating, none of which are in the golfnet results table that I can see?

Quite easily by linking the course id and SSS to a table that contains the new slope and rating

I have done it for all my rounds

But you asked

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

My golfnet results does not show my adjusted gross for stableford.

Is that my club's issue or what?

which is the question I answered

PabloAndRoy

gypsy79 wrote: »

Quite easily by linking the course id and SSS to a table that contains the new slope and rating

Ah ok .. by a separate lookup table.

Would you like to share this spreadsheet or do we have to email you our tables of results?

prawnsambo

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

Sure, but how can you calculate the WHS HI without the actual adjusted gross, slope rating and course rating, none of which are in the golfnet results table that I can see?

You'll get your adjusted gross score for stableford rounds by adding your handicap + par to the difference between your points and 36. That would be the same as gross differential plus par if you've no scratches, but if you do, it's the former calculation.

So say you have 22 points off 18 and you had a couple of scratches, the calculation is (36-22) = 14 +18 +72 = 104

Course and slope ratings can be found here.

PabloAndRoy

prawnsambo wrote: »

You'll get your adjusted gross score for stableford rounds by adding your handicap + par to the difference between your points and 36. That would be the same as gross differential plus par if you've no scratches, but if you do, it's the former calculation.

So say you have 22 points off 18 and you had a couple of scratches, the calculation is (36-22) = 14 +18 +72 = 104

Course and slope ratings can be found here.

Yeah I get that. It was just that without the Par for the course in the data, you can't. Now I see that he has a separate lookup using the venue number and CSS SSS to get the par, slope and course rating.

Its all good.

prawnsambo

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

Yeah I get that. It was just that without the Par for the course in the data, you can't. Now I see that he has a separate lookup using the venue number and CSS to get the par, slope and course rating.

Its all good.

Par for the course is listed in the GolfNet data.

PabloAndRoy

prawnsambo wrote: »

Par for the course is listed in the GolfNet data.

oooops .. so it is.

:rolleyes: