New Worldwide Handicap System

Blud

prawnsambo wrote: »

Evening of Thursday 22nd October.

So 10 days in advance? Do you think that is sufficient to check the data?

In my club, the handicap secretary has a full time job and 3 kids. I'm sure he would have liked a bit more time to manage this.

I think BigChap's point is valid - in terms of getting things ready for go live this has been a shambles.

prawnsambo

Blud wrote: »

So 10 days in advance? Do you think that is sufficient to check the data?

In my club, the handicap secretary has a full time job and 3 kids. I'm sure he would have liked a bit more time to manage this.

I think BigChap's point is valid - in terms of getting things ready for go live this has been a shambles.

As I pointed out above, this is not something Golf Ireland had any real control over. It's a system that's being adopted and was rolled out only a couple of weeks earlier in England. And there are a lot more clubs there. And similar problems reported. Anyone with an ear to the ground would have known what to expect.

As you might have guessed, I'm also a H/Sec. I was looking at this at nights, comparing records on GolfNet with ours and correcting errors. Time consuming and painful, but I had it done (on my own) inside a week. I'm not accepting excuses for other guys in the same position. They could have doled it out amongst the H/Cap committee and done it a lot quicker than me.

Blud

prawnsambo wrote: »

Ah here! You're excusing clubs for something that they had known was coming for years and also knew how little time was available and yet Golf Ireland are somehow at fault for being next in the queue to Golf England/Wales and a system that they were not developing?

Ah here! You're excusing Golf Ireland for something that they had known was coming for years and had direct oversight over how little/much time was available and yet clubs are somehow at fault for having handicap secretaries that are not full time and able to drop everything to trawl through data for hundreds of members in a 10 day period including a week where the kids are off school in lockdown?

Not sure why you are such an apologist for Golf Ireland on here, especially when the questions raised of them are not that big a deal. Have you skin in the game with them?

prawnsambo

Blud wrote: »

Ah here! You're excusing Golf Ireland for something that they had known was coming for years and had direct oversight over how little/much time was available and yet clubs are somehow at fault for having handicap secretaries that are not full time and able to drop everything to trawl through data for hundreds of members in a 10 day period including a week where the kids are off school in lockdown?

Not sure why you are such an apologist for Golf Ireland on here, especially when the questions raised of them are not that big a deal. Have you skin in the game with them?

See above. My 'skin' is the knowledge of where the errors arose. Most of the errors were with club systems and not the WHS portal. That's a fact. So in fairness, I can't sit here and see blame apportioned where it doesn't belong when I know differently. I've been pointing out here what the issues are, where to check them and how to fix them since I had access and identified the errors.

Seve OB

prawnsambo wrote: »

See above. My 'skin' is the knowledge of where the errors arose. Most of the errors were with club systems and not the WHS portal. That's a fact. So in fairness, I can't sit here and see blame apportioned where it doesn't belong when I know differently. I've been pointing out here what the issues are, where to check them and how to fix them since I had access and identified the errors.

this is precisely the reason why you don't switch off one system and turn on another. it needs time to check and test, run parallel etc.

and just because you are amazing and had everything done, doesn't mean everyone else can do the same, especially when they are volunteering

Blud is correct, you are an apologist for the GUI

prawnsambo

Seve OB wrote: »

this is precisely the reason why you don't switch off one system and turn on another. it needs time to check and test, run parallel etc.

and just because you are amazing and had everything done, doesn't mean everyone else can do the same, especially when they are volunteering

Blud is correct, you are an apologist for the GUI

I seem to be a split personality. On the other thread you're saying I'm right in blaming Golf Ireland

Maybe a nuanced approach is not black and white enough for these here parts. :P

PabloAndRoy

To be fair I think prawnsambo has been really helpful on this thread in clearing up any queries and anomolies that people have asked about.

It is pretty clear that there are some discrepencies, e.g. wrong tees, away scores, inconsistent DQs. That is not a surprise and I guess the primary reason for launching this new system in the "off season" was that there would be ample time to fix all of these before next year.

Blud

prawnsambo wrote: »

See above. My 'skin' is the knowledge of where the errors arose. Most of the errors were with club systems and not the WHS portal. That's a fact. So in fairness, I can't sit here and see blame apportioned where it doesn't belong when I know differently. I've been pointing out here what the issues are, where to check them and how to fix them since I had access and identified the errors.

Ok, I can see from this and your other post above where you're coming from.

I think despite the fact the errors might be on the club's side, Golf Ireland could have seen that coming and given more time for them to be rectified. I know there was loads of info given in advance, but maybe a better approach might have been to give data up to say the end of June by early July, support the clubs in cleaning that up, then you only have a few months to do in October and people are more tuned in to what is required.

I don't know, the blame might be with the clubs from your perspective but theres a certain amount of flying hype the seat of your pants from Golf Ireland's side.

The truth always lies in between.

Seve OB

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

To be fair I think prawnsambo has been really helpful on this thread in clearing up any queries and anomolies that people have asked about.

It is pretty clear that there are some discrepencies, e.g. wrong tees, away scores, inconsistent DQs. That is not a surprise and I guess the primary reason for launching this new system in the "off season" was that there would be ample time to fix all of these before next year.

I wouldn't disagree with any of that.
And I hope prawnsambo hasn't taken my comments to heart, I think I just have stronger feelings than he does that the the GUI should have done a lot more to make sure this was rolled out a bit smoother.
We are still friends ☺️

manster

manster wrote: »

Hi Guys,

I would appreciate any feedback on an online calculator I made


Limitations

• 18 holes only
  
• 95% Playing Hcaps are only calculated
• Not all courses are included (but will take requests!)
• Hcap Index values from 0 to 40 can only be submitted for now
• A number of terms are copyrighted so I have put in misspellings (e.g. rateing instead of rating, hcap instead of handicap)

Thanks

Thanks to Boardies , I have fixed a number of highlighted issues and made a plain web-site which will make navigation easier so had to remove the old link. If you need any courses added just let me know. Enjoy!

https://sites.google.com/view/worldhandicapsystem/home

PabloAndRoy

manster wrote: »

Thanks to Boardies , I have fixed a number of highlighted issues and made a plain web-site which will make navigation easier so had to remove the old link. If you need any courses added just let me know. Enjoy!

https://sites.google.com/view/worldhandicapsystem/home

Won't update when i change to my HI anymore.

prawnsambo

Blud wrote: »

Ok, I can see from this and your other post above where you're coming from.

I think despite the fact the errors might be on the club's side, Golf Ireland could have seen that coming and given more time for them to be rectified. I know there was loads of info given in advance, but maybe a better approach might have been to give data up to say the end of June by early July, support the clubs in cleaning that up, then you only have a few months to do in October and people are more tuned in to what is required.

I don't know, the blame might be with the clubs from your perspective but theres a certain amount of flying hype the seat of your pants from Golf Ireland's side.

The truth always lies in between.

The kind of errors I'm talking about aren't visible from the GolfNet side. There's a raft of issues here imo. Firstly, the number of golfers who actually log on to GolfNet and look at their data is (and I was surprised by this) tiny. Possibly as many as 75% have never logged on to it. Ever. So there's one control gone in (let's say) half the population.

Then (and I'm one of them) H/Secs don't as a general rule, check if data has been correctly uploaded. It's just not something you'd even think of. But those are the controls that the data relied on and there were calls some months ago for people to check their data on GolfNet. I asked our members to do this and literally three did. That's it. So rolling this out earlier would have changed diddly squat imo.

So this is an existing system that's been in use for years and people almost completely ignored the calls to check it. DotGolf (The WHS portal) took its data from GolfNet and without the people who would actually know if the data was correct or not, not bothering to check it, exactly how was this going to be spotted?

Right at the last minute when people woke up to the fact that there might be something changing after the weekend. :rolleyes:

manster

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

Won't update when i change to my HI anymore.

Try it again - just did a data refresh there and that might have been the issue

Golfgraffix

Im certainly no apoligist for the GUI but I know myself that I was checking scores from our software to GolfNet well before the 22nd, as I knew where the pinch points might be.

I think were the GUI and the other home unions may have been better is in giving the ISV's more time to get their software ready.

Golfgraffix

I did up a quick video for our own members on how the Score Entry looks when using the Masterscoreboard API. I'll post it here, it might be usefull to see.

https://vimeo.com/475075274

Mantis Toboggan

manster wrote: »

Thanks to Boardies , I have fixed a number of highlighted issues and made a plain web-site which will make navigation easier so had to remove the old link. If you need any courses added just let me know. Enjoy!

https://sites.google.com/view/worldhandicapsystem/home

Will you be adding any courses outside Dublin?

manster

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Will you be adding any courses outside Dublin?

Just untick the default from Dublin. The other counties include courses from Cork, Kildare, Mayo, Meath, Westmeath and Wicklow

If there are courses in particular you want to see call them out. It is a manual job to add them so it won't straight away

prawnsambo

Golfgraffix wrote: »

I did up a quick video for our own members on how the Score Entry looks when using the Masterscoreboard API. I'll post it here, it might be usefull to see.

https://vimeo.com/475075274

About 1:30 in you say that the course handicap integer is multiplied by 95% to get your playing handicap. We've established (via the notes on Handicap Master version 10 - and other sources) that it's actually the decimal course handicap that is multiplied by 95%.

Still open to correction on this, but for reference, here's the relevant screenshot from the HM website.

Golfgraffix

prawnsambo wrote: »

About 1:30 in you say that the course handicap integer is multiplied by 95% to get your playing handicap. We've established (via the notes on Handicap Master version 10 - and other sources) that it's actually the decimal course handicap that is multiplied by 95%.

Still open to correction on this, but for reference, here's the relevant screenshot from the HM website.

Thanks for that, I am going to give Nick a quick call

Golfgraffix

So, the official answer is !!!!!

In Ireland its the interger and everywhere else its the decimal.

John

prawnsambo

Golfgraffix wrote: »

So, the official answer is !!!!!

In Ireland its the interger and everywhere else its the decimal.

John

Firstly thanks for that.


Secondly, WTAF!

Golfgraffix

prawnsambo wrote: »

Firstly thanks for that.


Secondly, WTAF!

I thought that would be the answer !!

Seve OB

back to square 1 so

Yawhat Gay!!

prawnsambo

Golfgraffix wrote: »

I thought that would be the answer !!

We just had to have our own version like the 1SL. Because reasons...

manster

Only one example, but still good to see that the online calculator gives the same results as HandicapMaster

tobello

does anyone know whats happening with the away scores issue i.e not processed. Is this a glitch or something we need to contact our HC secs in due course.

Brusna

In this document at the top of page 35 it states that both methods of rounding can be used and that England, Wales and Ireland were using the double rounding while Scotland will use the full calculated value.

https://www.englandgolf.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Guidance-on-the-WHS-Rules-of-Handicapping-as-applied-within-GBI.pdf

prawnsambo

tobello wrote: »

does anyone know whats happening with the away scores issue i.e not processed. Is this a glitch or something we need to contact our HC secs in due course.

If it's unprocessed on GolfNet, then it needs to be processed by your club. It's basically your club that manages your handicap, so the away club posts their scores on GolfNet and all the visitor members scores are taken down to their club software and then posted back up on GolfNet as part of your record. Thankfully that system is coming to an end with the WHS.

prawnsambo

Brusna wrote: »

In this document at the top of page 34 it states that both methods of rounding can be used and that Scotland were using the double rounding while everyone else will use the full calculated value.

https://www.englandgolf.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Guidance-on-the-WHS-Rules-of-Handicapping-as-applied-within-GBI.pdf

Not finding that on page 34 or anywhere nearby.

gypsy79

prawnsambo wrote: »

If it's unprocessed on GolfNet, then it needs to be processed by your club. It's basically your club that manages your handicap, so the away club posts their scores on GolfNet and all the visitor members scores are taken down to their club software and then posted back up on GolfNet as part of your record. Thankfully that system is coming to an end with the WHS.

But the ones he is talking about were processed and and are now not processed/ I have some too. Only one would be in my 20