New Worldwide Handicap System

TheFarneyman

Open competitions are surely going to get a hit, why would anyone really go away once recreational rounds can count now?
According to the calculations tho the weather is not a factor ie. No standard scratch anymore on the day that the course rating and slope is all they use? Or am I picking that up wrong, can the course rating change from day to day to accommodate the 4 seasons in a day golf here in Ireland?
Ps. I think recreational rounds counting is a great addition, competitive rounds on a random Thursday night or whenever is superb I think.

DuckSlice

Found this article helpful

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/golf/explained-how-golfs-new-world-handicap-system-will-work-as-golfing-union-of-ireland-signs-up-38502757.html

willabur

etxp wrote: »

Found this article helpful

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/golf/explained-how-golfs-new-world-handicap-system-will-work-as-golfing-union-of-ireland-signs-up-38502757.html

I just read that article and am now convinced that this will do nothing to bring new players into the game. Its a ridiculous situation - its going to be a pain in the hole for everyone from players to club administrators

Rikand

Similar to our current standard scratch system, this figure won't be confirmed until the competition is closed and the playing conditions are taken into account.

Taken from.that article. So every day is a competition day if casual rounds can count. Therefore handicap secretary is about to become a full time job with overtime that they don't get paid for lol

jtown

Rikand wrote: »

Taken from.that article. So every day is a competition day if casual rounds can count. Therefore handicap secretary is about to become a full time job with overtime that they don't get paid for lol

People use competitions to control their H/C (up or down) - Now casual rounds will count - people MAY say why bother playing in comps anymore with entrance fees.

Could impact competition playing number dramatically

mike12

Each country can set their own qualifying criteria.
Winter golf may count it's as relevant as playing outside competition.

I think it will be limited to X amount of non competitive rounds here which will work fine.
The weather here is too variable to have all rounds played outside competition included.

The buffer zone will be gone but it will give u a target to beat to drop handicap or stop handicap increasing.

TheRoomWrecker

Its going to be very interesting, I can see the GUI implmenting a "local" rule of only competitions counting towards handicap, as others have said the Handicap Sec role will be like a full time job, especially in large membership clubs.

My club is qualifying all year round so we will be first up guinea pigs for this in November 2020.

TheFarneyman

TheRoomWrecker wrote: »

, I can see the GUI implmenting a "local" rule of only competitions counting towards handicap,

I think this would defeat the whole purpose of changing to the WHS, their main aim is to be inclusive and breaking down the barriers of golf, so can't see them implementing this. (but could be totally wrong as it is Ireland after all).

Totally agree it's a lot more work for the handicap Sec but by the sounds of things the calculations are done on the computer, so all that would need to be inputted daily is the course rating on that day. Surely that's not a big thing to ask and i'm sure it doesn't necessarily need to be the Handicap sec that enters it, Pro in the shop or general manager could enter easily you'd think.

mike12

TheFarneyman wrote: »

I think this would defeat the whole purpose of changing to the WHS, their main aim is to be inclusive and breaking down the barriers of golf, so can't see them implementing this. (but could be totally wrong as it is Ireland after all).

Totally agree it's a lot more work for the handicap Sec but by the sounds of things the calculations are done on the computer, so all that would need to be inputted daily is the course rating on that day. Surely that's not a big thing to ask and i'm sure it doesn't necessarily need to be the Handicap sec that enters it, Pro in the shop or general manager could enter easily you'd think.

In the USA I don't think u have to be a member of a club to have a handicap here u will have to be.
I reckon there is no way they will allow a guy to turn up at the west of Ireland having play 20 casual rounds.
Or even turn up to the Captain's prize.

Seve OB

my club plays 14 hole competitions from October to march, even april

no idea what's going to happen here because as it is, only 9 or 18 holes count!!!

TheFarneyman

mike12 wrote: »

In the USA I don't think u have to be a member of a club to have a handicap here u will have to be.
I reckon there is no way they will allow a guy to turn up at the west of Ireland having play 20 casual rounds.
Or even turn up to the Captain's prize.

Agree there may need to be a cap on the number of "recreational" rounds that can count or vice versa,a certain amount of competition rounds counted, my point is that they couldn't eradicate recreational rounds totally as it would go against their own mandate. The fact that this is meant to come into force in a few weeks and everyone is none the wiser leads me to believe that they may be no wiser to how it works themselves.

TheRoomWrecker

TheFarneyman wrote: »

The fact that this is meant to come into force in a few weeks and everyone is none the wiser leads me to believe that they may be no wiser to how it works themselves.

its November 2020 when it comes into force

TheFarneyman

Haha oops there was me thinking it was in a couple of weeks and getting worried scrap what i just said lol

davegilly

That report in the paper linked above states "A player's handicap will now be based on the eight best scores from their last 20 competitive rounds."

That to me looks like it will be competition rounds only and NOT casual rounds.

Casual rounds make no sense in Ireland anyway. Most people play golf to get their handicap down as low as possible so if you can do it during casual play then why would you bother paying competition fees for opens or weekend comps? It will affect memberships as well I think - simpler to join some cheap place and use golf now deals to play casually wherever you like??

techdiver

Rikand wrote: »

Taken from.that article. So every day is a competition day if casual rounds can count. Therefore handicap secretary is about to become a full time job with overtime that they don't get paid for lol

Is counting casual rounds mandatory? I can't see how it could be. Part of the fun for me on a summers evening is to go out and hit a few balls on each holes when it's not busy. I wouldn't even keep score and might only play 13 holes?

On another point, I can see casual rounds only being used to manipulate the system. It's fine for someone who wants to lower their handicap etc. But bandits can go out 7 times a week and stink the pace up to get the handicap back up.

Dtoffee

This has all the hallmarks of car crash TV ....... I can see mayhem over it with players wondering how the winners handicap was calculated as 15 when he was 11 last week ! who in their right mind would be a competition secretary at this rate.

Casual rounds to count .... I have never played to my potential in a casual round as I am usually trying something new or messing with mates / family (ie mulligans / gimmee's etc are allowed). How can this be monitored without any marker / verification ?

The great thing about golf is that you can remain compeditive as you get older. This move could well kill off the compeditive element of the game as we know it and render it a passtime for fun. At which point, some people will just give up the game through lack of motivation / challenge.

Obviously this decision has been made and it will go ahead ..... I just hope the decison makers are not too thick to reverse it quickly if it fails.

Ps be careful what you wish for ... look at how VAR has killed the atmosphere at soccer games.

mike12

As far as the info has allowed a casual round will have to be declared before u play and u will have to have a marker.

fred funk }{

mike12 wrote: »

As far as the info has allowed a casual round will have to be declared before u play and u will have to have a marker.

Is this not the case at the moment?

Roger_007

I think there are two issues which are getting confused here.
The first is the usage of a slope/difficulty rating for a course, (and for the different tees), to adjust handicaps for playing that course. This system is commonly used already in many countries and I see no difficulty with it.
The second is the method by which playing handicaps are adjusted. The current system which we use has evolved over many years and has been adjusted from time to time to deal with potential or real abuses. While is not perfect I think it generally works very well.
The proposed new system seems to have many loopholes and seems, on the face of it, to be more open to abuse than the current system. I just did a quick calculation of my own last 20 returns and applied the new method as far as we know it. It appears that my handicap would increase by 5 shots, (from 13 to 18). I had a run of poor scores over the past couple of years, partially for medical reasons, (thankfully now resolved).
I, like many golfers, play much of my golf recreationally away from my home course, (some abroad). It would take me a long time to record 20 rounds on my home course so I don't see how my handicap can be fairly adjusted using the new system.

DuckSlice

Will they actually go out and review each course or will they just assign a slope rating based on current data from the courses?

fred funk }{

etxp wrote: »

Will they actually go out and review each course or will they just assign a slope rating based on current data from the courses?

Review each course. Most have already been done.

Mantis Toboggan

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Review each course. Most have already been done.

Will be interesting to see how each course is rated.

My course could be perceived as easy in that it's not too long and the greens are slow but its narrow 20 meter fairways and if you're off the fairway then you're in the trees and chipping out.

A low slope rating would probably push me to leave to a "harder course" where I can take driver off every tee and spay it a little.

charlieIRL

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Review each course. Most have already been done.

Lot of courses are done a good while now.

DuckSlice

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Will be interesting to see how each course is rated.

My course could be perceived as easy in that it's not too long and the greens are slow but its narrow 20 meter fairways and if you're off the fairway then you're in the trees and chipping out.

A low slope rating would probably push me to leave to a "harder course" where I can take driver off every tee and spay it a little.

They are supposed to take into account landing zones and hazards so they will surely take into account width of fairways etc.

bestleftfull3

Long time lurker first time poster, I'm based in Ausralia and we currently use the new system that will be implemented in Ireland. Been Irish and have played at home before, it's not a major change! Confusing at first but makes sense in the end. Each course will have 2, maybe more slope ratings. Based on my current club in Melbourne, we only have 2. 131 which is our regular weekend (Stableford, v par comps) on medal day off the back sticks the rating changes to 138. DSR then comes in to play also.

There will initially be a bit of administration work but in the end it will be all computerised. Tried to add a screenshot of how it works but can't figure out how but example is: my current GA is 11.2 X 131 (slope rating on general comp day) divide by 113 (neutral slope rating) = 13 (Daily Handicap)

For weekend comps our cards are printed with the "daily handicap" which is what you play off on the day of competition. If it's done correctly it's quite good, you can actually follow a live leaderboard throughout the day to see scores coming in and where you sit on the leaderboard.

Here's a link for more info
https://www.golf.org.au/newgahandicapsystem

Rikand

Probably very simple to implement in Australia because every day is 30 degrees and gorgeous

Russman

bestleftfull3 wrote: »

Long time lurker first time poster, I'm based in Ausralia and we currently use the new system that will be implemented in Ireland. Been Irish and have played at home before, it's not a major change! Confusing at first but makes sense in the end. Each course will have 2, maybe more slope ratings. Based on my current club in Melbourne, we only have 2. 131 which is our regular weekend (Stableford, v par comps) on medal day off the back sticks the rating changes to 138. DSR then comes in to play also.

There will initially be a bit of administration work but in the end it will be all computerised. Tried to add a screenshot of how it works but can't figure out how but example is: my current GA is 11.2 X 131 (slope rating on general comp day) divide by 113 (neutral slope rating) = 13 (Daily Handicap)

For weekend comps our cards are printed with the "daily handicap" which is what you play off on the day of competition. If it's done correctly it's quite good, you can actually follow a live leaderboard throughout the day to see scores coming in and where you sit on the leaderboard.

Here's a link for more info
https://www.golf.org.au/newgahandicapsystem

That's a really good link, probably the easiest one to follow that I've seen, thanks !

bestleftfull3

Rikand wrote: »

Probably very simple to implement in Australia because every day is 30 degrees and gorgeous

you'd be surprised of some of the sandbelts I've played in the winter!! haha
DSR then comes in to play

bestleftfull3

Russman wrote: »

That's a really good link, probably the easiest one to follow that I've seen, thanks !

once you get used to it it's not too bad! it takes out the massive cut that you could get for having the round of your life and then not been ever able to have that round again. It also gives you basically the average of what you should be playing off

mighty magpie

bestleftfull3 wrote: »

you'd be surprised of some of the sandbelts I've played in the winter!! haha
DSR then comes in to play

What type of conditions are the initial slope ratings of 131 and 138 based on and how much can they go up or down by based on weather conditions, pin placements etc?