New Worldwide Handicap System

Seve OB

bestleftfull3 wrote: »

. If it's done correctly it's quite good, you can actually follow a live leaderboard throughout the day to see scores coming in and where you sit on the leaderboard.

That can be done here currently on the how did I do system which seems to be the most popular in clubs in Ireland. I’m sure the other systems such as master scoreboard can probably do it also.

It is turned off though in most places. I know a clubs who used to have it turned on but it has since been turned off, for what reason I’m not exactly sure. Someone told me it was under instruction from the GUI but I’m not sure how true that is. I don’t think it should be turned on though. I’m a traditionalist and like to be kept in suspense till all the scores are in before announcing results. Also there is nothing more depressing that checking in to a comp and seeing the scores on the screen before you go out knowing that you are gonna need at least 44 points to be in contention today

spacecoyote

Seve OB wrote: »

That can be done here currently on the how did I do system which seems to be the most popular in clubs in Ireland. I’m sure the other systems such as master scoreboard can probably do it also.

It is turned off though in most places. I know a clubs who used to have it turned on but it has since been turned off, for what reason I’m not exactly sure. Someone told me it was under instruction from the GUI but I’m not sure how true that is. I don’t think it should be turned on though. I’m a traditionalist and like to be kept in suspense till all the scores are in before announcing results. Also there is nothing more depressing that checking in to a comp and seeing the scores on the screen before you go out knowing that you are gonna need at least 44 points to be in contention today

I think that's actually part or the problem Seve. From what I've heard you had guys checking leaderboards when they arrived later in the day, before their rounds & cancelling tee times because they wouldn't have a chance to win

bestleftfull3

mighty magpie wrote: »

What type of conditions are the initial slope ratings of 131 and 138 based on and how much can they go up or down by based on weather conditions, pin placements etc?

Can't tell you what conditions they are based on but I'm pretty sure when they are set they won't change.

DSR would generally be high if weather conditions and pins are tough so this is where it would come in to play

Weather conditions don't determine slope rating

mike12

mighty magpie wrote: »

What type of conditions are the initial slope ratings of 131 and 138 based on and how much can they go up or down by based on weather conditions, pin placements etc?

So the course rating is basically our SSS for the course based on how a scratch golfer would play the course.
The slope rating is basically how a bogey golfer would play the course but not based on scoring 113 is the standard.
Some courses play easier for bogey golfers so the slope will be nearer to the course rating some will play harder.

paulos53

There are some details here from the USGA on the new system


https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/handicapping/world-handicap-system/world-handicap-system--education-resources.html


The newest bit of information for me is how Exceptional Scoring Reduction will work. Looks like you get a 1 shot cut for beating your handicap by 7 shots and a 2 shot cut for beating it by 10

Seve OB

so there is a cap on how high you can go

5, yes 5 shots.... thats brutal, we are currently at one, i think 2 is more than fair unless exceptional circumstances prevail. i really hope this gets constantly reviewed

prawnsambo

Seve OB wrote: »

so there is a cap on how high you can go

5, yes 5 shots.... thats brutal, we are currently at one, i think 2 is more than fair unless exceptional circumstances prevail. i really hope this gets constantly reviewed

We are the only country in CONGU with the 1SL. And the essence of the WHS is constant review. And it's very hard to manipulate a system that looks back over twenty rounds.

Seve OB

2nd November 2020 looks like our go live date

https://www.golfnet.ie/news/golfnet/4512/world-handicap-system

GolfNut33

Seve OB wrote: »

so there is a cap on how high you can go

5, yes 5 shots.... thats brutal, we are currently at one, i think 2 is more than fair unless exceptional circumstances prevail. i really hope this gets constantly reviewed

I'm dreading it. This will be the end of golf as we know it. The bandits will run amok.

prawnsambo

GolfNut33 wrote: »

I'm dreading it. This will be the end of golf as we know it. The bandits will run amok.

Yeah. I presume you were also dreading the 54 handicappers when they hit the courses of Ireland on the 1st January. A similar hysterical response was bandied about around these here parts back when that was announced.

GolfNut33

prawnsambo wrote: »

Yeah. I presume you were also dreading the 54 handicappers when they hit the courses of Ireland on the 1st January. A similar hysterical response was bandied about around these here parts back when that was announced.

Well, let's see how hysterical it is when its in full flow and the bandits are clearing up, domestically and interclub.

Russman

GolfNut33 wrote: »

Well, let's see how hysterical it is when its in full flow and the bandits are clearing up, domestically and interclub.

How will you know whether a winner is a bandit or not ?

Russman

Russman wrote: »

How will you know whether a winner is a bandit or not ?

Would you be known as one in your club?

GolfNut33

Russman wrote: »

How will you know whether a winner is a bandit or not ?

You get to know them. Lads who actively seek out the .1, known to pull when they know they might get cut. Every club has them and most active members know them.

Russman

Deleted User wrote: »

Would you be known as one in your club?

I very much doubt it

TheDoc

Been out of golf membership a good few years and hoping to come back. Been reading about this recently.

It’s a system that has me genuinely turned off entirely. My handicap and bettering myself was always my aim and enjoyment from golf.

This seems an absolute bags.

Knowing golf clubs and players whatever about individuals mucking around could literally see entire committees fiddling around with course layouts to get what they think will be better grading for club comps.

Russman

GolfNut33 wrote: »

You get to know them. Lads who actively seek out the .1, known to pull when they know they might get cut. Every club has them and most active members know them.

It was slightly tongue in cheek, apologies. These mythical guys who actively look for 0.1, pull when going well etc etc are, imho, few and far between in reality. For sure every club has one or two, but the vast majority of players fall into the normal and expected pattern of one good round every so often with mostly bad rounds in between, hence they stay in the same broad handicap range.
No system will ever catch genuine handicap cheats.

My point is that there will always be a winner of a competition, too many times I’ve seen that if the winner isn’t you, they must be a bandit (obviously not yourself specifically), yet every winner can’t be a bandit.

Russman

TheDoc wrote: »

Been out of golf membership a good few years and hoping to come back. Been reading about this recently.

It’s a system that has me genuinely turned off entirely. My handicap and bettering myself was always my aim and enjoyment from golf.

This seems an absolute bags.

Knowing golf clubs and players whatever about individuals mucking around could literally see entire committees fiddling around with course layouts to get what they think will be better grading for club comps.

I wouldn’t let the system put you off enjoying your golf. You can still try to shoot your best score. I’d have reasonable faith that the course gradings will be fair - I think it was something like 10 people came to do ours back in the summer. Committees won’t really have any input.

prawnsambo

GolfNut33 wrote: »

You get to know them. Lads who actively seek out the .1, known to pull when they know they might get cut. Every club has them and most active members know them.

I wouldn't doubt it. But I suspect dysfunctional behaviour comes from a dysfunctional system. The current CONGU system produces a handicap graph that looks like a trip over the Alps. And especially for Category 3 and above golfers. A score of just two shots better than net par will take away 80% of your 1SL if you're a Cat 4. A system that smooths out those bumps and takes what could be a minimum of six months' scores has to be an improvement. I for one, welcome our new World handicap masters.

Golfgraffix

Was at the Leinster Branch AGM last night and they gave a presentation on WHS. it was very basic and they would not allow any questions, which seemed a little odd.

Absolutely no mention of the number of shots a player can get back in a year.

They did say that fourball better ball will now count as qualifying for handicap

prawnsambo

Golfgraffix wrote: »

Was at the Leinster Branch AGM last night and they gave a presentation on WHS. it was very basic and they would not allow any questions, which seemed a little odd.

Absolutely no mention of the number of shots a player can get back in a year.

They did say that fourball better ball will now count as qualifying for handicap

So people playing fourball better ball all have to hole out and record their score I assume.

Seve OB

yea it is already around the world that 4ball betterball scores count towards handicap so I figured it would now be part of the new rules.

this is one that will suit the bandits. partner secures the points.... miss the putts so in comfort!

pretty sure I read somewhere that it will be 5 shots you can go up. that's of course unless we have regional restrictions, but if that's the case, its not really a worldwide system then is it!

Seve OB

yes, 5 shots!

https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/images/handicapping/education-posters/WHS_Cap_Poster.jpg

mjsc1970

Thankfully 4 Ball comps are few and far between at my club.

Having 4 Ball and casual rounds count towards handicap building/reduction is just pure pants IMO.

Russman

Golfgraffix wrote: »

Was at the Leinster Branch AGM last night and they gave a presentation on WHS. it was very basic and they would not allow any questions, which seemed a little odd.

Absolutely no mention of the number of shots a player can get back in a year.

They did say that fourball better ball will now count as qualifying for handicap

I suspect, they don't really know themselves how its all going to knit together.
As someone above mentioned, a worldwide system but with local peculiarities, doesn't really make sense.

prawnsambo

Russman wrote: »

I suspect, they don't really know themselves how its all going to knit together.
As someone above mentioned, a worldwide system but with local peculiarities, doesn't really make sense.

Yeah, the whole point is 'have handicap, will travel', so having little local derogations doesn't really work.

Regarding the fears of banditry. I've tried to work out how you could do this, but if the purpose is to save up a handicap for a big prize event or whatever, it would have to be very, very well planned out. With a 20 round look back, that's almost half the year for regular golfers, which would mean dragging your arse around the back of the field pretty much throughout the main season.

willabur

I would say the vast majority of people like to get as low as possible on their handicap. The most common bandit behaviour is someone who is .1 either side of a cut or a shot back but even in the grand scheme of things it is 1 shot difference which on most days will be meaningless

Russman

prawnsambo wrote: »

Yeah, the whole point is 'have handicap, will travel', so having little local derogations doesn't really work.

Regarding the fears of banditry. I've tried to work out how you could do this, but if the purpose is to save up a handicap for a big prize event or whatever, it would have to be very, very well planned out. With a 20 round look back, that's almost half the year for regular golfers, which would mean dragging your arse around the back of the field pretty much throughout the main season.

Couldn't agree more.
You'd want to have a pretty good head to be carrying around your best 6 of last 20 scores, and what rounds will be dropping out when you complete your current round etc. etc. That's before considering how a 16 handicapper delivers a good round to order. I'd have thought the new system makes it more complicated than currently simply accumulating 0.1s.

prawnsambo

Russman wrote: »

Couldn't agree more.
You'd want to have a pretty good head to be carrying around your best 6 of last 20 scores, and what rounds will be dropping out when you complete your current round etc. etc. That's before considering how a 16 handicapper delivers a good round to order. I'd have thought the new system makes it more complicated than currently simply accumulating 0.1s.

And it's actually eight out of twenty, so even harder to manipulate.

Add in the fact that there will be an equivalent to CSS in operation and playing different courses with different slope and course ratings and there'll be heads melting all over the shop.

Seve OB

willabur wrote: »

I would say the vast majority of people like to get as low as possible on their handicap. The most common bandit behaviour is someone who is .1 either side of a cut or a shot back but even in the grand scheme of things it is 1 shot difference which on most days will be meaningless

.1 is now a thing of the past. well almost anyway!
handicaps can now jump quite dramatically in the space of a few rounds under the new system