Calving 2018 - Advise and Help thread

squinn2912

whelan2 wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

WOuld fresh grass be a cause for tetany? What would have caused her to bloat?

I dont know. Maybe ask knackery to have a look. Is it lush grass?

I suppose it's lush. I think it's Tetany but I'm not too sure how since she had everything beside her. Thinking of it Sunday was 12 or so degrees but overnight and into morning it was around 4 and only up to 6 all day yesterday so the drop may have contributed. Sickened.

Mf310

Mooooo wrote:

Are they in one group? Split out the ones you think look empty and feed the groups separately and see how long they take to finish it. It's possible the fr may be drinking faster. Plenty water straw and crunch as well

Seperate grpups 2 groups of 16s all over a month old

Angus2018

Heifer calved this morning, no problems and just ran up the crush to suckle since she was too agitated to stand still.

I don't know about the rest of you lot but I'm exhausted from this never ending housing period. It feels endless and with the workload of calving on top of feeding and terrible weather it's getting tough. Can't wait to be doing a bit of fencing or topping instead of looking at pens all day.

squinn2912

Big brute of a bull calf coming backways on a small wee second calver. Took a hard pull but we got him out and she was able to get up. Delighted with that one!

The Rabbi

Had the best calf of the year today, the last one.
Had a good run really,only a few at night.
One cow done the splits and didn't get up.
3% calf mortality.Only 1 got scour.

antrimite

Had a 3rd calver do the splits Tuesday night when brute of a bull calf was half way out (she was springing but showed no signs of calving when my father checked them at 10pm). Pure luck I noticed her on the camera as the calf had a white stripe on its face and moved when I took a final look before bed at 1am. Took a strong pull to get him out the angle she was down made it a nightmare. Milked a pint out of her and tubed the calf. Got mother onto the buckrake yesterday and out into field, looks like her back left leg is done, will try and lift her tomorrow so see if there is any chance of a recovery. Shes eating grass and nuts but drinking very little water.
. Calf is a belter and we are lucky enough have a quiet cow, who calved on sunday, letting him get a suck morning and night. A couple of weeks and he'll go well at the drop calf sales all being well.
The broken sleep isn't making life easy at the minute!

antrimite

whelan2 wrote: »

vet was saying today that they did nearly 30 sections on one farm this spring :eek:

Surely has to be a pedigree man putting monsterous embryos (BB or Charolais) into commerical cows?

Dozer1

best cow calved here last night shes a blk limo '08 dairy cross , her 3rd set of twins, 1 set in 2010 and second in 2012, handy calves calved herself and even with only 3 quarters she'll have loads for them.

1st calf was a red bull that's flying it, 2nd is a black heifer couldn't get up and won't suck so I bottle fed her, alot better this morning but 1 good calf would have been just fine.

2 sets of clearings so the heifer might be ok

patsy_mccabe

Pulled a calf today from a heifer for a neighbour. He's in his 80's but still going strong. Calf was alive when I started pulling, but seemed unresponsive when we had it half out. Hit the ground and she started breathing again. First time using a proper calving gate. God they are a super job. On my to do list for this year.

Hard Knocks

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Pulled a calf today from a heifer for a neighbour. He's in his 80's but still going strong. Calf was alive when I started pulling, but seemed unresponsive when we had it half out. Hit the ground and she started breathing again. First time using a proper calving gate. God they are a super job. On my to do list for this year.

They’re great for trying to gets calf to suck

anthony500_1

patsy_mccabe wrote:

Pulled a calf today from a heifer for a neighbour. He's in his 80's but still going strong. Calf was alive when I started pulling, but seemed unresponsive when we had it half out. Hit the ground and she started breathing again. First time using a proper calving gate. God they are a super job. On my to do list for this year.

It should be in tams, any farm calving 1 cow or a 100 cows should get a calving gate with head lock, be it at a reduced rate or for free, ppl won't spend the 6 or 7 hundred on a must have imo as they see it as a luxury item, I bought one this year and I'm so pleased with it, yes it's expensive but it should last a min of 10 yesrs.
If only to tag the calf safely you can catch the cow in the gate/headlock and tag the calf safely all in the one pen. It reduces the risk by no end for the farmer

patsy_mccabe

Only reason I don't have one yet is I've no room to put one in. Have to solve that first.

charolais0153

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Only reason I don't have one yet is I've no room to put one in. Have to solve that first.

Where u calving them?atm

patsy_mccabe

charolais0153 wrote: »

Where u calving them?atm

At top of cubicle shed. In crush, head halter on. Cow back out, tie up cow and work away. Have sheds in another place but.....it's complicated, as they say.

greysides

People look at me like I've two heads when i give out to them about inadequate calving facilities.

Who da fúck do they think is going to benefit from them most!

squinn2912

The gate is the only job. We converted the milking parlour (only had it operating as such 18 months) into calving pens and have a calving gate that can be used in 2 directions

Hard Knocks

greysides wrote: »

People look at me like I've two heads when i give out to them about inadequate calving facilities.

Who da fúck do they think is going to benefit from them most!

Sadly people don’t grasp the H&S especially when only 1 in 10 something goes wrong & they had a lucky escape that 1 time.
Bought 1 for the FIL, only used when I’m there, as I use it
Sometimes you need allot of Carrots, & the stick well hidden

The Rabbi

IMG-20161223-00256.jpg

IMG-20161223-00255.jpg

IMG-20161223-00254.jpg

IMG-20170110-00260.jpg
This was made from an old rump rail.The headlocking bar sits in the cup on the bottom and can slide to one side when you pull out the pin on top if a cow goes down.As you can see no expense was spared.

anthony500_1

The Rabbi wrote:

448118 This was made from an old rump rail.The headlocking bar sits in the cup on the bottom and can slide to one side when you pull out the pin on top if a cow goes down.As you can see no expense was spared.

The Rabbi wrote:

448115

The Rabbi wrote:

448116

The Rabbi wrote:

448117

The Rabbi wrote:

448118 This was made from an old rump rail.The headlocking bar sits in the cup on the bottom and can slide to one side when you pull out the pin on top if a cow goes down.As you can see no expense was spared.

Think this is in the wrong thread...... Should be in the guntering thread.

If it works, and means your safe then that's the main thing, it does not have to be shiny and new.

whelan2

squinn2912 wrote: »

Just bk up from the yard after a bad news story. Cow lying heeled up with tetany. Only saw her this evening but she could have been gone from morning. Gutted she was one of the last my grand uncle owned. Access to silage and a lick bucket and getting meal with mag every day.

Had a cow this morning was bloated -angus- she was standing up and sitting down. I brought her into the yard and left her there for the day. Let her out there now and she's half the size she was this morning. There is not much grass where they are grazing. She is calved since August and in calf again with twins

Dunedin

squinn2912 wrote: »

Just bk up from the yard after a bad news story. Cow lying heeled up with tetany. Only saw her this evening but she could have been gone from morning. Gutted she was one of the last my grand uncle owned. Access to silage and a lick bucket and getting meal with mag every day.

Not meaning to question your know-how but are you sure it was tetany?

If getting silage, lick bucket (persume mag bucket?) and hi mag nuts, and still get tetany, then every cow I’d have would be in bother.

anthony500_1

Had a cow calf this morning at 5am on her own, it's now 9pm and no sign of her cleaning the after birth........ Should I wait till morning or give her something now, she is in good form and up and about. I know not to pull it etc but what to do.......

Edit. I see from another thread to give her 2 or 3 days, and give ivy, it should help.

Long day and tired had me panic.

The man in red and black

Went home for the weekend to watch a cow near calving as the brother is in NZ (Only cows 6 left belonging to my brother since the parents sold the herd last year.)

Mucous plug went around 12pm Sat afternoon. Was around the yard all afternoon,
checked her at 10pm nothing going on, chewing the cud.
12am sick to calf, restless, tail out etc,
3.30am 1st bag gone, put her up the crush to make sure all lined up, head and legs there, membrane on calf intact, sitting in the cervix, said I'd leave her to it as plenty of room and he was lined up straight.
6am Useless cow never even tried to push him out. Had to pull him, mildly tight jacking but she was a 2nd calver and should have been well able for him herself. Was almost dead, very little response and slow to breath(Me picturing the whatsapps from NZ). No response to water on the head, in the ear, straw up the nose, acupuncutre point in the nasal septum(ie every trick in the book :P) Dopram IV got him breathing thank God, milked cow and tubed 3.5litres beastings.
12pm, calf panting and not able to stand, zero suck reflex, typical big soft charolais calf with acidosis after a pull/long calving. Anti-inflammatories, bicarb drip IV and milked cow and tubed another 1.75 litres beastings. Left him at it.

Up this morning to drive home and check him before work, up and walking around. Sucking cow and no longer panting.

Jesus it's not easy being a vet or a farmer but at least as a vet I can get in the van after a calving and the farmer takes care of the calf.

Who2

The man in red and black wrote: »

Went home for the weekend to watch a cow near calving as the brother is in NZ (Only cows 6 left belonging to my brother since the parents sold the herd last year.)

Mucous plug went around 12pm Sat afternoon. Was around the yard all afternoon,
checked her at 10pm nothing going on, chewing the cud.
12am sick to calf, restless, tail out etc,
3.30am 1st bag gone, put her up the crush to make sure all lined up, head and legs there, membrane on calf intact, sitting in the cervix, said I'd leave her to it as plenty of room and he was lined up straight.
6am Useless cow never even tried to push him out. Had to pull him, mildly tight jacking but she was a 2nd calver and should have been well able for him herself. Was almost dead, very little response and slow to breath(Me picturing the whatsapps from NZ). No response to water on the head, in the ear, straw up the nose, acupuncutre point in the nasal septum(ie every trick in the book :P) Dopram IV got him breathing thank God, milked cow and tubed 3.5litres beastings.
12pm, calf panting and not able to stand, zero suck reflex, typical big soft charolais calf with acidosis after a pull/long calving. Anti-inflammatories, bicarb drip IV and milked cow and tubed another 1.75 litres beastings. Left him at it.

Up this morning to drive home and check him before work, up and walking around. Sucking cow and no longer panting.

Jesus it's not easy being a vet or a farmer but at least as a vet I can get in the van after a calving and the farmer takes care of the calf.

And did you not consider doing what other vets do and just section her and send your brother a bill for 300.

anthony500_1

The man in red and black wrote:

Mucous plug went around 12pm Sat afternoon. Was around the yard all afternoon, checked her at 10pm nothing going on, chewing the cud. 12am sick to calf, restless, tail out etc, 3.30am 1st bag gone, put her up the crush to make sure all lined up, head and legs there, membrane on calf intact, sitting in the cervix, said I'd leave her to it as plenty of room and he was lined up straight. 6am Useless cow never even tried to push him out. Had to pull him, mildly tight jacking but she was a 2nd calver and should have been well able for him herself. Was almost dead, very little response and slow to breath(Me picturing the whatsapps from NZ). No response to water on the head, in the ear, straw up the nose, acupuncutre point in the nasal septum(ie every trick in the book ) Dopram IV got him breathing thank God, milked cow and tubed 3.5litres beastings. 12pm, calf panting and not able to stand, zero suck reflex, typical big soft charolais calf with acidosis after a pull/long calving. Anti-inflammatories, bicarb drip IV and milked cow and tubed another 1.75 litres beastings. Left him at it.

The man in red and black wrote:

Mucous plug went around 12pm Sat afternoon. Was around the yard all afternoon, checked her at 10pm nothing going on, chewing the cud. 12am sick to calf, restless, tail out etc, 3.30am 1st bag gone, put her up the crush to make sure all lined up, head and legs there, membrane on calf intact, sitting in the cervix, said I'd leave her to it as plenty of room and he was lined up straight. 6am Useless cow never even tried to push him out. Had to pull him, mildly tight jacking but she was a 2nd calver and should have been well able for him herself. Was almost dead, very little response and slow to breath(Me picturing the whatsapps from NZ). No response to water on the head, in the ear, straw up the nose, acupuncutre point in the nasal septum(ie every trick in the book ) Dopram IV got him breathing thank God, milked cow and tubed 3.5litres beastings. 12pm, calf panting and not able to stand, zero suck reflex, typical big soft charolais calf with acidosis after a pull/long calving. Anti-inflammatories, bicarb drip IV and milked cow and tubed another 1.75 litres beastings. Left him at it.

The man in red and black wrote:

Jesus it's not easy being a vet or a farmer but at least as a vet I can get in the van after a calving and the farmer takes care of the calf.

I don't feel so bad, if the man with 7 years college and God knows how many years on the ground working can nearly get caught, I don't feel so bad.
And it's not the calving that's the hard bit it's all done in 2 or 3 hours up or down, it's the trying to keep the calf alive that's trying it's best to die on you is what wears you out, some of them are just so stupid

charolais0153

The man in red and black wrote: »

Went home for the weekend to watch a cow near calving as the brother is in NZ (Only cows 6 left belonging to my brother since the parents sold the herd last year.)

Mucous plug went around 12pm Sat afternoon. Was around the yard all afternoon,
checked her at 10pm nothing going on, chewing the cud.
12am sick to calf, restless, tail out etc,
3.30am 1st bag gone, put her up the crush to make sure all lined up, head and legs there, membrane on calf intact, sitting in the cervix, said I'd leave her to it as plenty of room and he was lined up straight.
6am Useless cow never even tried to push him out. Had to pull him, mildly tight jacking but she was a 2nd calver and should have been well able for him herself. Was almost dead, very little response and slow to breath(Me picturing the whatsapps from NZ). No response to water on the head, in the ear, straw up the nose, acupuncutre point in the nasal septum(ie every trick in the book :P) Dopram IV got him breathing thank God, milked cow and tubed 3.5litres beastings.
12pm, calf panting and not able to stand, zero suck reflex, typical big soft charolais calf with acidosis after a pull/long calving. Anti-inflammatories, bicarb drip IV and milked cow and tubed another 1.75 litres beastings. Left him at it.

Up this morning to drive home and check him before work, up and walking around. Sucking cow and no longer panting.

Jesus it's not easy being a vet or a farmer but at least as a vet I can get in the van after a calving and the farmer takes care of the calf.

Had one like that november time. We probably could have brought him ourselves but as she was a heifer. We called the vet. Lucky we did because he was dead otherwise. The heart was pumping but lungs werent going.

Would a farmer be allowed to administer dopram and drugs like that or is it vet only?

The man in red and black

Who2 wrote: »

And did you not consider doing what other vets do and just section her and send your brother a bill for 300.

A couple of reasons
1. Wasn't tight enough to need a section.
2. Would have had nobody to hold the calfbed for me to stitch.
3. It was my weekend off so I had my farmer hat on and not my vet hat, even used my fathers 40 year old jack for good measure

charolais0153 wrote: »

Had one like that november time. We probably could have brought him ourselves but as she was a heifer. We called the vet. Lucky we did because he was dead otherwise. The heart was pumping but lungs werent going.

Would a farmer be allowed to administer dopram and drugs like that or is it vet only?

Good question. As far as I know it is POM(Prescription only medicine) not vet only so you should be able to get from your vet. It can be a hard drug to get as companies seem to stop making it from time to time but the Dopram drops under the tongue are definitely worth having on farm if not confident injecting a newborn calf in the jugular. Absorption under the tongue is also very fast.

tanko

With the benifit of hindsight should you have pulled the calf at 3.30??

The man in red and black

tanko wrote: »

With the benifit of hindsight should you have pulled the calf at 3.30??

I don't know.

I was trying to do everything right at home(Practice what you preach sort of job :P )

I don't think I would have pulled him then based on the 2 hr rule from when the bag comes out. But then I wasn't checking her every hour so the timing could have been off. I don't like pulling too early and don't like to be too jack happy but the thing that put me off with this cow was she never went about calving herself, never gave a push or put out a foot at all. As far as I was concerned at 3.30AM the bag had recently burst and I confirmed everything was lined up in the canal with enough space. In an ideal world I probably should have stayed watching her or checked her again in an hour now 2.5 hours though. 99% of cows would have made a good effort to push him out though when you had gone to the bother of checking there was no head or leg back. Some cows are 'too posh to push'

Edit: I reconsidered and I overcomplicated my answer. If I had the same calving tonight I would do the very same as 99% of the time it's right. I will make a note on this cow though and if it were her calving again next year I would jack sooner as I'd be wary she wouldn't progress again. Much simpler

Angus2018

Those kind of situations always happen at night time and getting the calf out can only be the beginning of your troubles!

If it's up and sucking then it's doing well but you have to keep an eye on it. They can go downhill very quickly.