Calving 2018 - Advise and Help thread

greysides

Dozer1 wrote: »

spring calving 2018 is done!
last one calved there a nice red LM heifer,

have 2 really bad with a scour I can't seem to cure so there'll be casualties yet

Feed them live yogurt. Keep hydrated. Watch for acidosis complicating the scour... dopey, weak, staggery, breathing faster than normal.

charolais0153

What's the best way of giving calfs fluid

greysides

charolais0153 wrote: »

What's the best way of giving calfs fluid

Best for you? Or the calf?


Easiest for the man is probably the tube as long as you're happy and competent doing it.

It might be best avoided from the calf's point of view as it carries risks, including that of damaging the oesaphagus especially when it needs to be repeated.
Tubing also can result in the liquid ending up in the non-functional rumen rather than the abomasum as the oesaphageal reflux may not work to divert it. It's not really a problem with electrolytes other than a delay in absorption. It's more of a problem with milk as the milk fermentation can irritate the rumen and upset the calf. Colostrum is so important that it negates as potential problem tubing may cause if that's the only way you can get it in.

Ideally the calf would suck it from a teat, or it can be syringed in.

charolais0153

greysides wrote: »

Best for you? Or the calf?


Easiest for the man is probably the tube as long as you're happy and competent doing it.

It might be best avoided from the calf's point of view as it carries risks, including that of damaging the oesaphagus especially when it needs to be repeated.
Tubing also can result in the liquid ending up in the non-functional rumen rather than the abomasum as the oesaphageal reflux may not work to divert it. It's not really a problem with electrolytes other than a delay in absorption. It's more of a problem with milk as the milk fermentation can irritate the rumen and upset the calf. Colostrum is so important that it negates as potential problem tubing may cause if that's the only way you can get it in.

Ideally the calf would suck it from a teat, or it can be syringed in.

Best for me. :DTakes an age to get 3 liters down using a brandy bottle.

Dozer1

thanks greysides,
at the yogurt and glucose via a bottle, tough going as they won't suck, not confident on tubing
vet gave a 3l drip there now to the worst fella and 2l to another.

greysides

Dozer1 wrote: »

thanks greysides,
at the yogurt and glucose via a bottle, tough going as they won't suck, not confident on tubing
vet gave a 3l drip there now to the worst fella and 2l to another.

It's important fluids are isotonic. That means the same 'strength' as blood. So, concemtration is vital. There's no such thing as 'make up with 1 or 2 litres of water'. It's whatever the instructions say with a slight leeway for human error! Most fluid sachets use 2 litres of water. It's 1 litre per Effydral tablet.
If using home made solutions, be accurate. Calf scour sachets, as simple as they seem, are quite technical in how they are composed, as they are formulated to pump water across the intestine using naturally present ion pumps. Homemade may get you out of a hole but I wouldn't advise scrimping here.

whelan2

It's important that they still get milk too. Most calves die of starvation

Base price

charolais0153 wrote: »

Best for me. :DTakes an age to get 3 liters down using a brandy bottle.

OH would favour using a brandy bottle (cause it's easier held) but I prefer to tube them if they are weak or use a dosing gun (with lots of patience) to dribble natural yoghurt or electrolytes into their mouths.
I wouldn't give a young calf 3 litres in the one feed. Better off to feed less and often.

charolais0153

Base price wrote: »

OH would favour using a brandy bottle (cause it's easier held) but I prefer to tube them if they are weak or use a dosing gun (with lots of patience) to dribble natural yoghurt or electrolytes into their mouths.
I wouldn't give a young calf 3 litres in the one feed. Better off to feed less and often.

Month old

patsy_mccabe

Have a PB heifer due in a week. This morning spotted her well away from the rest of the cattle, so thought she was calving. They have access to 2 fields at the moment thanks to poor fencing. Went to look at the others and by then she had made her way back to the rest. An hour ago, spotted her heading off again back to the spot. Checked her again there and she looks like she's starting to calf. Tail is swishing away.
So she picked her spot over 12 hours before calving. You'd wonder what goes through their heads. Is it all instinct or do they think about what they are doing?

Base price

charolais0153 wrote: »

Month old

I normally introduce oad feeding @ 3 litres/day from 3 weeks old but it really depends on the individual calf and how much coarse ration they are eating.
If a month old calf that gets ill, is on oad then I offer a little often. IMO 3 litres in one feed is too much in this case.
I find that offering a little often works best but it is laborious and time consuming.

charolais0153

Base price wrote: »

I normally introduce oad feeding @ 3 litres/day from 3 weeks old but it really depends on the individual calf and how much coarse ration they are eating.
If a month old calf that gets ill, is on oad then I offer a little often. IMO 3 litres in one feed is too much in this case.
I find that offering a little often works best but it is laborious and time consuming.

Well i probably should of explained earlier but this was with a suckler calf.

Base price

charolais0153 wrote: »

Well i probably should of explained earlier but this was with a suckler calf.

I stand corrected but I doubt a month old suckler calf would ever consume 3 litres at a single suckling no matter how much milk its dam would have.

Base price

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Have a PB heifer due in a week. This morning spotted her well away from the rest of the cattle, so thought she was calving. They have access to 2 fields at the moment thanks to poor fencing. Went to look at the others and by then she had made her way back to the rest. An hour ago, spotted her heading off again back to the spot. Checked her again there and she looks like she's starting to calf. Tail is swishing away.
So she picked her spot over 12 hours before calving. You'd wonder what goes through their heads. Is it all instinct or do they think about what they are doing?

Instinct.
Similar to the "nesting" type behavior that humans exhibit. We want our babies to be born into a safe environment be it in a hospital or at home and accompanied by professional backup from obstetricians, doctors, midwifes etc.

Say my name

Base price wrote: »

Instinct.
Similar to the "nesting" type behavior that humans exhibit. We want our babies to be born into a safe environment be it in a hospital or at home and accompanied by professional backup from obstetricians, doctors, midwifes etc.

Jaysus.
When you posted about "nesting" type behaviour in humans. The first thought that came in my head was a sow gathering lumps of straw in her mouth to make a nest for farrowing for herself.

Say my name

Base price wrote: »

I stand corrected but I doubt a month old suckler calf would ever consume 3 litres at a single suckling no matter how much milk its dam would have.

I couldn't tell you about that scenario.
But a fairly big new born calf would drink 4 litres of biestings in one go at a half hour old.
I've experienced a few of them.

Base price

Say my name wrote: »

Jaysus.
When you posted about "nesting" type behaviour in humans. The first thought that came in my head was a sow gathering lumps of straw in her mouth to make a nest for farrowing for herself.

Wind the clock back a few hundred years and we would have exhibited similar behavior. In fact, I remember my Mam telling me (from her childhood) it was a luxury to have a mattress/pillow filled with horse hair as opposed to straw. The only difference was that the mattress was covered either with hessan sacks or if you were upmarket - bleached cotton flour sacks.
As a child (late 60's) I have vague memories of a Jewish man buying pulled main & tail horse hair and feathers from ducks, geese and hens to stuff mattresses and pillows.

Limestone Cowboy

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Have a PB heifer due in a week. This morning spotted her well away from the rest of the cattle, so thought she was calving. They have access to 2 fields at the moment thanks to poor fencing. Went to look at the others and by then she had made her way back to the rest. An hour ago, spotted her heading off again back to the spot. Checked her again there and she looks like she's starting to calf. Tail is swishing away.
So she picked her spot over 12 hours before calving. You'd wonder what goes through their heads. Is it all instinct or do they think about what they are doing?

Most of them do it when they have the space patsy. Have seen it to happen a few times here that a cow would break out of the home place and walk 2 miles up the road to a block of winterage we have and head to the furthest corner of that to calf and they might not have been in that block for 6 months. They will nearly always calf in the same spot year in year out too if left to their own devices. The auld fella bought a shorthorn cow off an elderly neighbour when I was a young fella. She disappeared when she was going calving and he thought he had lost her in the bushes somewhere. A few days later the elderly neighbour spotted her up the top of his own winterage. She had crossed 5 farms to get back to it and had calved herself without a problem. Nature is funny at times.

antrimite

7 left to calve here, hopefully the weekend will get most of them done.
We have had 3 cows not drop the milk this year and require a jab of Oxytocin, anyone else have this issue and any ideas why this might be happening? Mineral or vitamin specific?

Lady Haywire

antrimite wrote: »

7 left to calve here, hopefully the weekend will get most of them done.
We have had 3 cows not drop the milk this year and require a jab of Oxytocin, anyone else have this issue and any ideas why this might be happening? Mineral or vitamin specific?

Would you have a bully cow dealing out wallops to cows and getting them to break into calving?

patsy_mccabe

Well she calved anyway. A sweet little ZAG heifer.

squinn2912

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Well she calved anyway. A sweet little ZAG heifer.

A wee keeper!

patsy_mccabe

squinn2912 wrote: »

A wee keeper!

Oh ya. Wanted a heifer. Mother is lacking milk so hopefull, next generation will improve on that score.

squinn2912

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

A wee keeper!

Oh ya. Wanted a heifer. Mother is lacking milk so hopefull, next generation will improve on that score.

Is ZAG good for that? We've got a lovely heifer picked out running with our own bull at the moment. Mother was alright for milk but not as good as her own mother before that so I'm hoping she will pull a bit back on that score.

bogman_bass

Base price wrote: »

charolais0153 wrote: »

Best for me. :DTakes an age to get 3 liters down using a brandy bottle.

OH would favour using a brandy bottle (cause it's easier held) but I prefer to tube them if they are weak or use a dosing gun (with lots of patience) to dribble natural yoghurt or electrolytes into their mouths.
I wouldn't give a young calf 3 litres in the one feed. Better off to feed less and often.

I hate using an open topped bottle. Get somebody else to feed you a pint and you'll see how easy it is for it to go the wrong way

Dozer1

I should have been clearer it was a 3L drip that took about 2 hours to go in so should be ok,
Calf no better or worse today
I'll keep feeding him anyway

patsy_mccabe

squinn2912 wrote: »

Is ZAG good for that? We've got a lovely heifer picked out running with our own bull at the moment. Mother was alright for milk but not as good as her own mother before that so I'm hoping she will pull a bit back on that score.

ZAG is 81 percentile for milk at 76% reliability. So 5 stars.

High bike

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

ZAG is 81 percentile for milk at 76% reliability. So 5 stars.

thats good news have a couple of nice heifer calves off him this year,tried a few last year and got all bulls

patsy_mccabe

High bike wrote: »

thats good news have a couple of nice heifer calves off him this year,tried a few last year and got all bulls

Did last years ZAG bulls stay a bit on the small side?

charolais0153

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Did last years ZAG bulls stay a bit on the small side?

Have 1 by zag. Short legs but plenty of muscle