Calving 2018 - Advise and Help thread

squinn2912

Isn't it amazing what you can forgive for him being the right one! Our last bullock was a smasher. We've one noisy cow but she has a dream calf every year (also away in the head). I wouldn't go into them but they are lovely cattle in their own right. I'd find the lims more civil and easy to handle but the charolais were pets compared to either. I think we might go easy calving ch next time out. 
On Patsy's point we're similar. Cows were late going in and we're getting bits of bales over a gate for a bit longer than ideal. They were a little thin going in but are calving great since. Number 19 calved this evening all on her own and the calf is up running about. (one great advantage of lim). The minerals have been a great job to keep cow and calf right.

blonde10

Just on the mineral thing..are ye goin with the pre calving bucket or would ye sprinkle powerd stuff over the silage..im not fully sold on the buckets.whats yet thoughts...also how is your beastings this year we have good stuff here it's thick like custard..i feed a bit of rolled oats.anybody else do same

squinn2912

Yea it's the powder we're using I don't think there's anything like it and they love it.
Hmm did you see the discussion I started on fresh calved cows? I opted not to go into them much. I got some of a dairy man beside me. I'd little need this year thank God. I like the thick yella stuff but vet told me colour means little. Not feeding oats just siliage but I'm happy with how they're doing I'd say oats would be good

charolais0153

squinn2912 wrote: »

Yea it's the powder we're using I don't think there's anything like it and they love it.
Hmm did you see the discussion I started on fresh calved cows? I opted not to go into them much. I got some of a dairy man beside me. I'd little need this year thank God. I like the thick yella stuff but vet told me colour means little. Not feeding oats just siliage but I'm happy with how they're doing I'd say oats would be good

Thickness matters though

Angus2018

I give pre-calver licks to the pens on round feed barriers and mineral powder to ones on slats since they just knock their bucket out of the way or fill it with silage. Those animals would be taken off the slats well in advance of calving and put on buckets anyway.

Anyone close to calving gets a scoop of meal, udder puffs up well then, they've more energy for calving and the calf is more lively. Missed one cow last year, she was without a lick for a week and on hay, the calf was the laziest dopiest one I've had. Took about 8 hours to get him to suckle.

blonde10

I think no matter how well your calving is goin there's goin to be one that will test ya.one that will be on the brink and somehow survive..and he or she will be the one around the place for months to come..but even after all the nights fixing them under the red lamp,all the stomach tubing..and vet bills..when they survive and make it.....i think it makes it somewhat worthwhile.....

squinn2912

Totally agree with you there's nothing like coming through a crisis with an animal to make you feel attached and proud. I'm talking about things going well but the 1st calving heifers start coming!

patsy_mccabe

Just a note on infa-red lamps. We have one here that is hung over the tank in the attic. Only used in severe cold weather. I've used it now and then over the years for cold weak calves.
During the week I was putting it back in the attic but plugged it in first to check it. My hands were numb enough at the time so held them in under it. Within seconds I could feel them warming and right through into the bones. Really made me appreciate now well it warms cold calves.

RobinBanks

Not sure if its been previously discussed but any tips on getting a calf to suck. Had a big calf Sat night and she inst sucking yet. Getting up alright but very lazy. Having to stomach tube her at the min.

tanko

RobinBanks wrote: »

Not sure if its been previously discussed but any tips on getting a calf to suck. Had a big calf Sat night and she inst sucking yet. Getting up alright but very lazy. Having to stomach tube her at the min.

Sometimes i try to get the calf to suck a finger covered with sugar and slowly feed in milk into their mouth wirh a 60ml dosing syringe. When they get onto this try and get them started on the cow.
Takes plenty of paitence.
Is it a BB calf?

50HX

RobinBanks wrote: »

Not sure if its been previously discussed but any tips on getting a calf to suck. Had a big calf Sat night and she inst sucking yet. Getting up alright but very lazy. Having to stomach tube her at the min.

hunger and a shot of multivitamin

Say my name

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Just a note on infa-red lamps. We have one here that is hung over the tank in the attic. Only used in severe cold weather. I've used it now and then over the years for cold weak calves.
During the week I was putting it back in the attic but plugged it in first to check it. My hands were numb enough at the time so held them in under it. Within seconds I could feel them warming and right through into the bones. Really made me appreciate now well it warms cold calves.

A side note on the infra red.
I heard tell of a few farmers putting them up over each milking unit on the cold nights. The beauty of the infra red is that it puts out infra red rays like the Sun so it heats up any object that the rays hit instead of wasting energy and heating up the air.

RedPeppers

RobinBanks wrote: »

Not sure if its been previously discussed but any tips on getting a calf to suck. Had a big calf Sat night and she inst sucking yet. Getting up alright but very lazy. Having to stomach tube her at the min.

Dairying here but we would only tube calf for first couple of feeds. After that a bit of hunger doesn’t be long straightening them out, once there hungry enough they will suck

RobinBanks

RedPeppers wrote: »

Dairying here but we would only tube calf for first couple of feeds. After that a bit of hunger doesn’t be long straightening them out, once there hungry enough they will suck

Hunger was the trick in the end! I didn't feed her before work this morn so she would be hungry tonight. Got her up and brought her over to cow. After a few mins I got her sucking. She was hungry because she was nearly lifting cow with tunks sucking

Limestone Cowboy

First casualty here today. 12 year old cow never opened up or dropped in the bones but had the blister out for 3 hours. Brought her in and handled her and brought the calf without too much bother. Calf was alive with a faint enough heartbeat but couldn't get him breathing. Covered in yellow fluid aswell similar to what you might see in a calf that was dead for a few days. My 17 month casualty free streak is gone anyway.

grassroot1

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

First casualty here today. 12 year old cow never opened up or dropped in the bones but had the blister out for 3 hours. Brought her in and handled her and brought the calf without too much bother. Calf was alive with a faint enough heartbeat but couldn't get him breathing. Covered in yellow fluid aswell similar to what you might see in a calf that was dead for a few days. My 17 month casualty free streak is gone anyway.

SNAP had a cow with a blood discharge on her tail for a month or so her bearing was extended for a while but no prolapse. She was kicking her belly last night and started to calve today.the presentation was one leg and head so pushed it back and got the second leg. It wasnt hard to get the calf out after that. The mouth held a lot of fluid and it was clear the calf was dead 24 to 48 hours. The cleanings and fluids that were discoloured and came out with the calf. Any ideas?

grassroot1

RobinBanks wrote: »

Hunger was the trick in the end! I didn't feed her before work this morn so she would be hungry tonight. Got her up and brought her over to cow. After a few mins I got her sucking. She was hungry because she was nearly lifting cow with tunks sucking

I often think they suck just we do not see them at it,that said you are never happy till you see them sucking

greysides

grassroot1 wrote: »

SNAP had a cow with a blood discharge on her tail for a month or so her bearing was extended for a while but no prolapse. She was kicking her belly last night and started to calve today.the presentation was one leg and head so pushed it back and got the second leg. It wasnt hard to get the calf out after that. The mouth held a lot of fluid and it was clear the calf was dead 24 to 48 hours. The cleanings and fluids that were discoloured and came out with the calf. Any ideas?

If the cervix was exposed to air when she was lying down, prolapsing, then bugs in the air could have attacked the cervical mucus plug (a sealant) and liquified it (possibly the bloody discharge). This lets in bacteria to the calf and its a race against time then.

greysides

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

First casualty here today. 12 year old cow never opened up or dropped in the bones but had the blister out for 3 hours. Brought her in and handled her and brought the calf without too much bother. Calf was alive with a faint enough heartbeat but couldn't get him breathing. Covered in yellow fluid aswell similar to what you might see in a calf that was dead for a few days. My 17 month casualty free streak is gone anyway.

Sounds a bit like Uterine Inertia, possibly some degree of low calcium involved. I wouldn't put that cow in calf againn.

Limestone Cowboy

greysides wrote: »

Sounds a bit like Uterine Inertia, possibly some degree of low calcium involved. I wouldn't put that cow in calf againn.

Thanks greysides, she's for the chop now anyway.

grassroot1

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Calf was alive with a faint enough heartbeat but couldn't get him breathing. Covered in yellow fluid aswell similar to what you might see in a calf that was dead for a few days. My 17 month casualty free streak is gone anyway.

Quick question for Greysides
As above mirconium(excuse spelling)faeces in the fluids sets off alarm bells in human pregnancy is it a concern in animals aswell?
We used to see it a lot when we used longer gestation bulls and had occasional stilbirths in a very yellow fluid, I always wondered if it caused the stillbirth?

greysides

When you take a calf and it's yellow stained the calf has been stressed and passed the meconium in the uterus. Long calving, tough pulls etc. If you get it out alive you've had a close call.

Limestone Cowboy

greysides wrote: »

When you take a calf and it's yellow stained the calf has been stressed and passed the meconium in the uterus. Long calving, tough pulls etc. If you get it out alive you've had a close call.

Am I right in thinking if I had acted quicker I may have brought my calf alive so greysides? Hard to know what's right or wrong at times. Only for she had passed a blister I wouldn't have known she was calving, not sprung up properly, pin bones not dropped, no sign of sickness in her behaviour, not dialated. Was eating silage at the round feeder with the rest of them with the blister hanging out of her which I have never seen a cow to do before. Left her for a few hours and she was still doing the same like she didn't know she was calving, normally always head for isolation in the far end of the field away from the rest of the cows.

greysides

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Am I right in thinking if I had acted quicker I may have brought my calf alive so greysides? .

Unless it was a form of premature calving/abortion it would be expected the calf would have been more viable had it exited earlier but i don't see what you could have done differently. The circumstances were against you. It wasn't the normal routine we depend upon for judging things.

antrimite

First post on here, great reading all the stories.

Had our first casualty at the weekend, first calver had a lovely APZ heifer calf which needed a slight pull, nothing major, calf never got up and died shortly after it came out at 282 days gestation. Was no airways problems or long labour. A mystery to us. Disappointing as she would have been a lovely replacment down the line. Batch of 3 heifers more calving any day to APZ so hoping for incident free labours!

Have seen a plenty of posts on here re: calves not wanting to suck, must definitely be a Simmental thing as we would have plenty every year who get up and nose around the teats but never latch on, have had plenty of kicks for my troubles! Seems to be the bigger calves that always have issues with

tanko

Simmental's and Charolais calves can be very dopey and slow to suck, especially the bulls.
Limousin, Angus and Saler calves are great to get up and suck i find.

APZ is usually easy calved on cows, he might be a bit strong for heifers tho.
I wouldnt be counting on his heifers making good cows, theyve poor calving ability and not great for milk i found.

squinn2912

Agree with some of the above. The Charolais anyhow can be a nightmare to get going. A lot of work early on but the best cattle imo at sales or scales. We're 90% Lim and they're great, hardy cattle in that regard. 20 calved now and only 2 took any work to suck. A couple of tough calvings and one or two I put the jack on just because I was there handy.
On APZ I have a lovely second calver from him who had a fantastic bull calf this year and a great heifer calf last year for keeping. The cow herself needed the jack and it was a brave pull alright. I've bulled heifers (strong) to him without much bother. Our AI man is mad for him but as I've said before advice from a provider comes with a warning!

Angus2018

I had an unusual calving yesterday. I was cleaning the water troughs on the slats in the morning and my jaw hit the ground when I saw one of the in-calf heifers had a waterbag out. She's wasn't due for 5 weeks by her serve date. Strangest thing of all is she was having zero contractions, she was back chewing and didn't ever have her tail up. Bit of a panic since I'm quite backlogged form the snow, so tagging, dehorning, moving animals around until I could get her up to the calving pen with a crush in it. I wasn't sure what to do in the situation so got the vet to come out, carefully checked and decided we would jack it out since she had opened a bit. Bit of a struggle without contractions and proper dilation but it was a small calf. Out pops a premature heifer calf thats mostly bones. The heifer took to it straight away but it could barely move its legs, no chance of standing. Stuck it under a heat lamp for the night, couldn't fit the stomach tube into it at all so had to slowly bottle it small bits throughout the night. Eventually took to lazy sucking 2 hours ago. Put it back with its mother and figured I'd get its legs going at least, lifted it up and held it but to my surprise it started walking. Should be able to get it sucking the mother this evening.

Check your pens 2-3 times everyday lads and use bulling dates as a guideline. Also get a heat lamp! Works wonders. Won't be a great calf but I can put the cow back in calf so its better than no calf.

squinn2912

That can happen and if you like that heifer then it's worth giving her another chance to do it right for you. I had a girl calve on the slats yesterday morning but we were able to get it out ok and she's sucking away now since. I was watching her tight and was sure I had maybe another couple of days based on the fact that a lot of the cows were in calving pens for an age before calving. That's frustrating but I'm not too pleased with myself. I'd rather clean out a pen an extra time than lose a calf. But I honestly didn't think I was chancing her. It's all ok when it works out but there's nothing like making sure! 
You're dead right Angus, I would check them first thing, my father is there some of the day and then they get checked in the evening and around 9.00 pm as well even if there's no sign of anything. Very easy to take a wee walk down after the dinner.

Sugarbowl

I have a calf 4 days old - she has a weak suckle and when she walks it's looks a bit lopsided or shaky. She is in good form and sucked ok this morning. Does anyone think she has some deficiencies?