Rental increase notice period in RPZ

sublime1

I've seen conflicting opinions on when notice can be given for a rental increase in a RPZ (rental pressure zone). What about a situation where the following happened:

1. Tenants A move in Feb 2015 - rent is 800
2. Tenants B move in Feb 2017 - 4% increase applied
3. Tenants C move in Aug 2017 - rent unchanged

Now is the next rent review 12 months after the first review, or 12 months from the start of the current tenancy? I.e. Feb 2018 or Aug 2018?

Thanks

Michael D Not Higgins

Notice can be given August 2018 with new rent to come in 90 days later, assuming these are all separate tenancies.

sublime1

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Notice can be given August 2018 with new rent to come in 90 days later, assuming these are all separate tenancies.

Thanks. Any source for this? I'm a bit surprised to be honest.

Michael D Not Higgins

sublime1 wrote: »

Thanks. Any source for this? I'm a bit surprised to be honest.

What are you surprised about? Try out the RPZ calculator here.

sublime1

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

What are you surprised about? Try out the RPZ calculator here.

I'm surprised as I assumed that it was 12 months from the date that the rent was first set. I was unable to increase the rent when tenants C moved in as it was limited by the rental cap legislation, so surely the date of review should be 12 months from when it was first set?

To take this logic to its conclusion, if tenants C move out in Aug (something they have intimated that they may do, if their jobs don't renew their contracts), I would again be bound not to increase the rent for any incoming tenants D.

That calculator doesn't account for my case, where the tenancy has changed since the initial review. The 2nd calendar widget doesn't allow you to set an earlier date than the 1st widget.

sKeith

Why the 21 month wait until next rent increase? Feb 17 to Nov 18 ?

Michael D Not Higgins

sublime1 wrote: »

I'm surprised as I assumed that it was 12 months from the date that the rent was first set. I was unable to increase the rent when tenants C moved in as it was limited by the rental cap legislation, so surely the date of review should be 12 months from when it was first set?

To take this logic to its conclusion, if tenants C move out in Aug (something they have intimated that they may do, if their jobs don't renew their contracts), I would again be bound not to increase the rent for any incoming tenants D.

That calculator doesn't account for my case, where the tenancy has changed since the initial review. The 2nd calendar widget doesn't allow you to set an earlier date than the 1st widget.

If it's a new tenancy, you can review the rent. If Tenants C were a separate tenancy to Tenants B then the review would have taken place before they moved in and you could have raised by 2% as per the calculator.

sublime1

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

If it's a new tenancy, you can review the rent. If Tenants C were a separate tenancy to Tenants B then the review would have taken place before they moved in and you could have raised by 2% as per the calculator.

No, when tenants C moved in, I couldn't increase the rent as per rental cap rules. If you have a source for that, I'd be grateful, as I was told at the time that I couldn't.

Browney7

sublime1 wrote: »

No, when tenants C moved in, I couldn't increase the rent as per rental cap rules. If you have a source for that, I'd be grateful, as I was told at the time that I couldn't.

If you plug details into the calculator you'd see you get to apply an increase to new tenancies. By not doing increasing rent when the new tenants moved in you effectively reset the "rent last set date" to the day the tenancy started. New tenants have 15 months at the level the rent was set

sKeith

if you got new tenants in every month for a year, could you bring a under market value rental back up towards market value by using 12 * 2% increases for a 24% total increase in one year.

sublime1

Browney7 wrote: »

If you plug details into the calculator you'd see you get to apply an increase to new tenancies. By not doing increasing rent when the new tenants moved in you effectively reset the "rent last set date" to the day the tenancy started. New tenants have 15 months at the level the rent was set

Yes, I understand what you are saying, but I wasn't permitted to increase the rent when those tenants moved in as it was only 6 months after the previous tenants had moved in. I don't think the calculator is taking a situation like mine into account.

Browney7

sKeith wrote: »

if you got new tenants in every month for a year, could you bring a under market value rental back up towards market value by using 12 * 2% increases for a 24% total increase in one year.

It's a pro rata increase so each time would be 4% X (1/12). As it was 6 months it was 4% X 6/12 = 2%.

Michael D Not Higgins

sublime1 wrote: »

Yes, I understand what you are saying, but I wasn't permitted to increase the rent when those tenants moved in as it was only 6 months after the previous tenants had moved in. I don't think the calculator is taking a situation like mine into account.

12 months is only for the same tenancy. If a new tenancy starts it doesn't matter how long since the rent was set in the last tenancy.

sublime1

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

12 months is only for the same tenancy. If a new tenancy starts it doesn't matter how long since the rent was set in the last tenancy.

Sorry to be repeating myself, but I'd really like to see a source for that.

Michael D Not Higgins

sublime1 wrote: »

Sorry to be repeating myself, but I'd really like to see a source for that.

The legislation for RPZ didn't change the periodicity for rent reviews which is only related to the change of rent within a tenancy. The clauses around setting the rent are separate to rent reviews. The initial rent of a tenancy is setting the rent but is not a rent review as it's a different tenancy.

http://revisedacts.lawreform.ie/eli/2004/act/27/revised/en/html#SEC19
Section 19 onwards.

Michael D Not Higgins

Also the RPZ calculator will show an error if you try to do a rent review for the same tenancy within 12 months but no error for setting the rent for a new tenancy.

sublime1

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

The legislation for RPZ didn't change the periodicity for rent reviews which is only related to the change of rent within a tenancy. The clauses around setting the rent are separate to rent reviews. The initial rent of a tenancy is setting the rent but is not a rent review as it's a different tenancy.

http://revisedacts.lawreform.ie/eli/2004/act/27/revised/en/html#SEC19
Section 19 onwards.

Thanks very much. Looks like I got the wrong end of the stick last year, and could have increased by 2% in Aug 2017. At the time I had the impression that I was the only landlord who was actually sticking to the rules, and there wasn't much clear info available. There seems to be a lot more info around now.

Thanks again.

GGTrek

The OP asked me to provide some input. I am sorry to say that I cannot provide any info (unlike some posts in this thread) unless the OP replies to the following: where the new tenants added to the same joint tenancy for the property? Or tenant A, B, C are all on separate tenancies (for example for each room of the tenancy with use of common areas?). Situation is very different depending on answer.

sublime1

GGTrek wrote: »

The OP asked me to provide some input. I am sorry to say that I cannot provide any info (unlike some posts in this thread) unless the OP replies to the following: where the new tenants added to the same joint tenancy for the property? Or tenant A, B, C are all on separate tenancies (for example for each room of the tenancy with use of common areas?). Situation is very different depending on answer.

Sorry for lack of clarity - A, B and C are all separate tenancies.

GGTrek

sublime1 wrote: »

GGTrek wrote: »

The OP asked me to provide some input. I am sorry to say that I cannot provide any info (unlike some posts in this thread) unless the OP replies to the following: where the new tenants added to the same joint tenancy for the property? Or tenant A, B, C are all on separate tenancies (for example for each room of the tenancy with use of common areas?). Situation is very different depending on answer.

Sorry for lack of clarity - A, B and C are all separate tenancies.

Then the advice received in the previous posts is correct. Best of luck in your business

sublime1

Super, thanks for that.