What will we spend the Apple money on?

Oldtree

A tax break for Apple to get them to stay

Franz Von Peppercorn

cnocbui wrote: »

No.

It will be repatriated - Apple have already said that.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Doltanian wrote: »

Use the money to give as many useless good for nothing public sector workers fired and retired. Get 150,000 dead weight employees off the public sector paybill and outlaw trade unions.

Rather than outlawed trade unions we need more of them , particularly in the private sector.

endacl

We should spend it on 1818181818 apples. Single gala apples are 55c each in Tesco at the moment.

That's 378.5 apples each, folks! Which will keep the doctor away for over a year. Jaysus, we won't need doctors at all at all. Hospital crisis solved. And apple growers happy. Which is nice.

Kermit.de.frog

I don't think it's in Ireland's interest to take that money.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Dionysis

Shurimgreat wrote: »

It looks like things are moving on this.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2018/0222/942768-apple-tax/

And yes I know other countries will get their cut and if we are lucky we will get half the money.

What should we spend it on?

Metro North?
2 grand for every man, woman and child?
Buy up some distressed loans?
Pay off some of the national debt?
Buy an island?

What would give the most benefit to the most amount of people?

I need someone to explain the following?
Ireland is in trouble with the EU for not taking tax due from Apple.
At the same time, other countries are claiming that some of this money is due to them.
Then, why;
a) is Ireland in trouble for uncollected taxes that are due to other countries?
b) why are the other countries not in trouble for not collecting their taxes from Apple.
c) if the other countries did not know about the monies, then why is it just not an issue between Apple and the other countries, and leave Ireland, out of it.

What should we do with the money?
Spend all of it on paying back national debt owed. Our debt is far too high since 2009.
If there was to be an argument to spend, I would spend it only on capital projects that don’t incur additional year on year increases to the national budget, as we won’t have the funds again the following year.
Rebuild hospitals, schools, or build roads, or to install high speed fiber optic cable across the whole country. This later item, is the biggest deficit in the country to date and the hidden payback to the national coffers would be immense. People could work from home more, or work from home in locations that are rural, (I.e. work for someone in America from rural Galway). Keeps people living in rural locations and reduces people on our roads and the need for motorway infrastructure. Connectivity, high speed, is the biggest payback in the modern society.

nice_guy80

Put the money into a Rabo Direct online account

I heard they are giving the interest upfront!

machiavellianme

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I would either put the lot into Bitcoin or go to Vegas and stick the lot on red in a roulette game.

Always bet on black!

VinLieger

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Rather than outlawed trade unions we need more of them , particularly in the private sector.

Private sector worker here, yeah no we don't

bonzodog2

Skylinehead wrote: »

You can't just chuck 13 billion quid into a current account...

Would it be OK if it was just resting there?

Franz Von Peppercorn

Dionysis wrote: »

I need someone to explain the following?
Ireland is in trouble with the EU for not taking tax due from Apple.
At the same time, other countries are claiming that some of this money is due to them.
Then, why;
a) is Ireland in trouble for uncollected taxes that are due to other countries?
b) why are the other countries not in trouble for not collecting their taxes from Apple.
c) if the other countries did not know about the monies, then why is it just not an issue between Apple and the other countries, and leave Ireland, out of it.

What should we do with the money?
Spend all of it on paying back national debt owed. Our debt is far too high since 2009.
If there was to be an argument to spend, I would spend it only on capital projects that don’t incur additional year on year increases to the national budget, as we won’t have the funds again the following year.
Rebuild hospitals, schools, or build roads, or to install high speed fiber optic cable across the whole country. This later item, is the biggest deficit in the country to date and the hidden payback to the national coffers would be immense. People could work from home more, or work from home in locations that are rural, (I.e. work for someone in America from rural Galway). Keeps people living in rural locations and reduces people on our roads and the need for motorway infrastructure. Connectivity, high speed, is the biggest payback in the modern society.

The other European countries are not owed that tax (some retail profits aside maybe).

Apple is a manufacturing company. Despite what the British press says it doesn’t transfer money by booking it in Ireland. Like all manufacturing companies it earns wholesale prices when it sells and should pay taxes on those profits where HQ is.

The situation is more complex with the US which claims the profits on the overseas earnings of its own companies. Apple might either pay the bill here and get a refund there or the US might claim the taxes here. The US disputes the European case.

Franz Von Peppercorn

VinLieger wrote: »

Private sector worker here, yeah no we don't

Yeh you do. Someday you will be tossed on a slag heap and the lack of unions might be the cause.

When unions were strong wages were strong.

VinLieger

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Yeh you do. Someday you will be tossed on a slag heap and the lack of unions might be the cause.

When unions were strong wages were strong.

My wages are pretty strong, ive great benefits and ive a good relationship with my company that would be destroyed if there was a combative union involved.

If i ever do get let go for whatever reason it will be either my own fault or the company in trouble and ill do what any sane person would do and look for another job instead of trying to find someone to blame for my problems

Ubbquittious

Skylinehead wrote: »

You can't just chuck 13 billion quid into a current account...

What happens if you try?

What if I aquire super mind writing powers and due to everyones new found generosity towards me I start getting loads of transfers from millionaires and billionaires around the world? At what point does the bank call me and tell me I have enough ?

For Forks Sake

Ubbquittious wrote: »

What happens if you try?

What if I aquire super mind writing powers and due to everyones new found generosity towards me I start getting loads of transfers from millionaires and billionaires around the world? At what point does the bank call me and tell me I have enough ?

You get to become Crown Prince of Nigeria.

Wanderer78

It's clearly obvious what we need to do with this money, we clearly need encourage orange into the country, we could do this by offering them even better tax breaks than apple, the competition would be mighty, everyone wins!

Hector Savage

It will all be pissed away and wasted - no working Irish person will see a penny of that money.

beertons

More plug sockets for everyone. You can never have enough.

Sleepy

Sleepy wrote: »

No, you ask the various banks which of them will pay you the highest interest on the short-term liquidity you're providing them with.

Shocking carry on.

Ten years ago that might have been Anglo Irish.

WoollyRedHat

Buy everybody a big mac and a cinema ticket.

Then if there's any money left build a massive rollercoaster over the capital city.

Franz Von Peppercorn

VinLieger wrote: »

My wages are pretty strong, ive great benefits and ive a good relationship with my company that would be destroyed if there was a combative union involved.

If i ever do get let go for whatever reason it will be either my own fault or the company in trouble and ill do what any sane person would do and look for another job instead of trying to find someone to blame for my problems

You are probably in IT. That ship will sail in the next few years and you will be unemployed and without recourse to benefits that a union will give you - at the very least redundancy. I guarantee that the vast majority of people in IT will be thrown on some slag heap before they are 50 as companies flee Ireland.

VinLieger

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

You are probably in IT. That ship will sail in the next few years and you will be unemployed and without recourse to benefits that a union will give you - at the very least redundancy. I guarantee that the vast majority of people in IT will be thrown on some slag heap before they are 50 as companies flee Ireland.

Arent you a ray of sunshine and no im not, also how would a union save me if all the companies according to you are leaving anyway?

If you think i don't have a backup plan for ever being let go due to any reason your quite naive. I don't understand why everyone expects others to help them when they are in trouble.

Wanderer78

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

You are probably in IT. That ship will sail in the next few years and you will be unemployed and without recourse to benefits that a union will give you - at the very least redundancy. I guarantee that the vast majority of people in IT will be thrown on some slag heap before they are 50 as companies flee Ireland.

even though i do understand where you re coming from, i think its impossible to know what exactly is gonna happen in the future to some sectors of the job market, we ve no real way of knowing this, but of course we can hypothesis and basically guess what 'might' happen, and some of these guesses will actually be fairly accurate, more so due to luck. theres no question there will be winners and losers from these changes, our job now is to make sure everybody is 'ok' when these changes occur, i.e. people have enough to survive and people have access to things that are absolutely required for that survival etc. unions do play a part in this requirement, but some people chose not to be a part of that, and thats ok to, its just important that the future of both union and non union members are secure.

Wanderer78

VinLieger wrote: »

Arent you a ray of sunshine and no im not, also how would a union save me if all the companies according to you are leaving anyway?

If you think i don't have a backup plan for ever being let go due to any reason your quite naive. I don't understand why everyone expects others to help them when they are in trouble.

unfortunately, life is not black or white, like some believe it to be, or we re somewhat being lead to believe. we are not born into equality and life can indeed can become more unequal for many, due to, sometimes, simply reasons but generally for very complex reasons. when some end up in trouble, they simply do not have the resources to solve their issues, for various different reasons, failing to address these issues can and does lead to even more complex social issues, hence our requirement to deal with these issues collectively. empathy is very important in these situations, which sometimes can be lacking, in ways we re becoming a very cold species, lacking in empathy.

Skedaddle

The problem isn't just the Apple scenario. They're probably unlikely to move anyway.

However, if the state were to just accept this ruling and rollover on it, we would be admitting to having been running a dodgy tax system where Revenue cut unofficial deals with companies. That's effectively what the Commission is alleging and the state is absolutely denying it and saying that the Commission is retrospectively reinterpreting laws to overstep its role into areas of taxation.

Yeah it's a lot of money, but the big picture is that we could set a precedent where the entire FDI strategy we've run for decades is not only changed from this point forward, but that it would be retrospectively reviewed and companies based here would be handed huge tax bills.

If we lose this case, it could have very serious economic consequences, far beyond any €13 billion of theoretically unpaid tax.

Ireland has changed many of its taxation rules and is currently in a position that's acceptable to the Commission based on current policies.

The payment of the money into the escrow accounts isn't really an issue. The state will also get all of that money back as the amount is invested and will turn a profit that will cover the costs easily.

What the state was trying to avoid was creating a €13 billion liability on the books and a huge risk. For example if the funds it were invested in didn't go as planned, the state could be left owing large amounts of money to Apple if the case is won.

You've also got to remember that Apple could also turn around and say the state assured them that they were tax complaint and then years later presented them with a huge bill. That could end up in court in Ireland and could be found to be unenforceable. Apple could even potentially sue the state attempting to prove negligence or simklar.. I doubt they would have any motivation to do so, but other companies could be far more ruthless if they were faced with similar and didn't have huge cash reserves. I mean it's not inconceivable that the EC might go after a company that was highly profitable years ago and is no longer so. That would be a scenario where I suspect you'd see lawsuits against the Revenue and the state.

This isn't really a situation where Ireland can just accept the ruling. It's one of those awkward legal messes where you're cannot admit liability and have to defend something on the grounds of being technically correct. It's not about political morals of past Irish taxation policies. That's something for political debate about current policies.

Also politically, we would want to be careful not to shoot ourselves in both feet over what is theoretical tax revenue at present. It would be nice, but not if it unravels Ireland's FDI legacy.

So, unfortunately, we don't really have the luxury of second guessing the morality of previous Irish policies as it's the current generation who will be left with the bill if we do.

VinLieger

Wanderer78 wrote: »

unfortunately, life is not black or white, like some believe it to be, or we re somewhat being lead to believe. we are not born into equality and life can indeed can become more unequal for many, due to, sometimes, simply reasons but generally for very complex reasons. when some end up in trouble, they simply do not have the resources to solve their issues, for various different reasons, failing to address these issues can and does lead to even more complex social issues, hence our requirement to deal with these issues collectively. empathy is very important in these situations, which sometimes can be lacking, in ways we re becoming a very cold species, lacking in empathy.

Yes and thats what social welfare is for and im not against that but the impression that poster gives of unions is they will make your company keep you employed regardless of the situation that company is in. It stinks of mad ruth coppingers "just nationliase it" attitude

Many union heads seem to confuse unions for state companies and unions for private companies. A private company can't just go running to the govt asking for more money, if they are out of money then they are out of money and no stamping of feet and sensationalist talking heads is going to change that

ToddyDoody

I think we should invest it all in apple shares.

Sierra Oscar

Most of it is owed to other EU countries and will be distributed by us accordingly (naturally pending the outcome of the court case).

cnocbui

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

It will be repatriated - Apple have already said that.

It could only be repatriated to the US if Apple won their appeal, which they won't. Ireland gets to keep the money when Apple loses the appeal.

elbyrneo

Samsung shares.

Graham

VinLieger wrote: »

how would a union save me if all the companies according to you are leaving anyway?

Oooh oooh, me me, I know this one.

The Unions would save your job and prevent the company leaving by organising a strike and strategically placing pickets

Graham

Wanderer78 wrote: »

unfortunately, life is not black or white, like some believe it to be, or we re somewhat being lead to believe. we are not born into equality and life can indeed can become more unequal for many, due to, sometimes, simply reasons but generally for very complex reasons. when some end up in trouble, they simply do not have the resources to solve their issues, for various different reasons, failing to address these issues can and does lead to even more complex social issues, hence our requirement to deal with these issues collectively. empathy is very important in these situations, which sometimes can be lacking, in ways we re becoming a very cold species, lacking in empathy.

Sir Humphrey Appleby, is that you??

DEFTLEFTHAND

cnocbui wrote: »

The only thing that money should be spent on is paying off National debt, which currently stands at €207 billion, or €43,431 hanging over the heads of every man woman and child in the country.

The debt will never be cleared without the amount of waste and mismanagement in this country.

4068ac1elhodqr

A nice 'pie in the sky sea' project would be to follow China's example of 'sea reclamation & island building'.

Namely, dump a few spare (useless) aul mountains into the sea, SW off Mizen Head 51° 26′ 52″ N and head towards Ponta Delgada 36°N or thereabouts.

Considering 90% of Irish territory is underwater, use it.
Having the equivalent of the Florida Keys stretching out hundreds of miles to 'sunny-times' would save folks a packet instead of flying out to Santa Ponsa.

The people of Cork can adopt the flamingo as a new mascot, and the surfing would be just gnarly down there.

Best of all, many could escape the rotten Siberian winds due over here after this weekend.

handlemaster

land link to the uk.

hydro /wind power generation mentioned a few years back. said we could be energy self sufficent with three four years would be good. control energy control your cost of goods production

VinLieger

handlemaster wrote: »

land link to the uk.

hydro /wind power generation mentioned a few years back. said we could be energy self sufficent with three four years would be good. control energy control your cost of goods production

Actually thats one thing id love to see, us making a proper wind farm our at seas and getting further toward being able to power ourselves independently and potentially start selling to the UK via the inter connector

4068ac1elhodqr

handlemaster wrote: »

land link to the uk.

hydro /wind power generation mentioned a few years back. said we could be energy self sufficent with three four years would be good. control energy control your cost of goods production

Or straight to market (Europe) (Brittany) as well as that tropical extension out in the SW. Tidal energy is more consistent than wind, build the floating bridges on top of that.

handlemaster

Millie Rotten Fluid wrote: »

Or straight to market (Europe) (Brittany) as well as that tropical extension out in the SW. Tidal energy is more consistent than wind, build the floating bridges on top of that.

the hydro , wind option was to be used therefore tidal would not be needed. I think the bail out terms dictate any such wind monies have to be out towards the national debt

Skylinehead

Millie Rotten Fluid wrote: »

A nice 'pie in the sky sea' project would be to follow China's example of 'sea reclamation & island building'.

Namely, dump a few spare (useless) aul mountains into the sea, SW off Mizen Head 51° 26′ 52″ N and head towards Ponta Delgada 36°N or thereabouts.

Chuck a few SAMs on them as well, sure why not

Kuva

kenmc wrote: »

The state has spent 2.5m setting up the escrow account.

What. The. Actual. Fück?

Do we get this back when we don't get the money?

How did we even end up having to pay this?


The money would be wasted here. To corrupted. Every day we see stories of this and nothing done.

4068ac1elhodqr

Skylinehead wrote: »

Chuck a few SAMs on them as well, sure why not

Probably a good idea, and cheaper than a dozen jets (and all the associated costs) to get the great bear to stop buzzing the west coast with their fancy blackjacks.

A few artificial islands would be totally tropical off the SW, would also save on importing pineapples and bananas.

The Moldy Gowl

Kuva wrote: »

Do we get this back when we don't get the money?

How did we even end up having to pay this?


The money would be wasted here. To corrupted. Every day we see stories of this and nothing done.

You gotta pay fees if you want someone to manage an escrow account.

It's .015% which is probably a fairly standard rate.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Graham wrote: »

Oooh oooh, me me, I know this one.

The Unions would save your job and prevent the company leaving by organising a strike and strategically placing pickets

No but it would get you a better redundancy offer. Or stop some redundancies that might otherwise have happened.

Interesting that some well paid people like actors join unions or guilds and the average joe thinks organising is evil.

VinLieger

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

No but it would get you a better redundancy offer. Or stop some redundancies that might otherwise have happened.

Interesting that some well paid people like actors join unions or guilds and the average joe thinks organising is evil.

Bizarre comparison to make.

If a company is bust its then its bust, being part of a union is not going to magic money into existence to get you a better redundancy especially if as you say they will just be leaving in the next few years.

Franz Von Peppercorn

VinLieger wrote: »

Bizarre comparison to make.

If a company is bust its then its bust, being part of a union is not going to magic money into existence to get you a better redundancy especially if as you say they will just be leaving in the next few years.

The company may be thinking of leaving in a few years and start some redundancy talks with unions. Or the unions have agreed better than statutory terms. It’s not only possible - it’s happened.

Cian_ok

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The debt will never be cleared without the amount of waste and mismanagement in this country.

National Debt isn't like a mortgage. Countries never* repay debt, they just roll it over. They pay the interest only, and wait for inflation to reduce the principal.


* maybe not never. But rarely, if you find a load of oil, you might be able to afford to pay of your debt.

Koala Sunshine

Cian_ok wrote: »

National Debt isn't like a mortgage. Countries never* repay debt, they just roll it over. They pay the interest only, and wait for inflation to reduce the principal.


* maybe not never. But rarely, if you find a load of oil, you might be able to afford to pay of your debt.

Well they do repay it, otherwise people wouldn't by government bonds, but yes they are continually issuing new debt.

Cian_ok

Koala Sunshine wrote: »

Well they do repay it, otherwise people wouldn't by government bonds, but yes they are continually issuing new debt.

Yes. They repay individual bonds, but they borrow more money to pay the old ones.

Ubbquittious

Cian_ok wrote: »

Yes. They repay individual bonds, but they borrow more money to pay the old ones.

It is more like a heroin addiction. A massive boon for them at the start when they had no debt and could borrow loads to do lots of things. Now it's just a continuous clamour to sell out and privatise everything so they can keep borrowing.