keeping customers money to pay for petrol

LegacyUser

just looking for a stance for this case (if there is one).
very trivial matter comapred to most but i work in a petrol station. a regular customer, though not a nice customer, got 15euro of petrol, then decided to come into the shop and tell me he had no money. i took his details and asked him to come back later,w hich he said "i only live down the road." fast forward 2 weeks same customer was in shop and i reminded him about the petrol credit i had given him. he said "oh i though my wife paid for that next monring"..to w=hich i replied, no, nobody has paid for it yet. it sstill on our system. i also confirmed this with all other workers. to date, this amount still hasnt been paid for as the customer left the shop again without paying.

if this customer comes in again to purchase a different item, but has enough money to cover the 15euro, and say, hands me a 50euro note....am i legally OK to keep this money and take for the petrol money owed and give back the change as normal, or would i have to tell the custiemr that i will take this money for the original transaction??

davo10

What has the owner said about it?

RunRoryRun

Next time he's in ask him to pay there and then, if he doesn't tell him you've no option but to call the gardai to report a theft. He just shoplifted in a mannerly way.

wally1990

You owe this guy nothing and you are being nice yet I understand you are being professional

So If it was me I’d politely mention that payment needs to be made within the next 2 days or a report has to be logged with the Garda as per ‘procedure’ for non payment of fuel

And no I would not keep his money
That is not your right to do
It is his right to manually pay over
If he does not
He should be reported for theft as mention
Do not attempt to take €15 extra off his next purchase or I’d seriously imagine him using that as theft from you.
Don’t let it bother you anyway ,,he didn’t pay , report it to management, remind him , and then report him if no payment
Wouldn’t be going out of my way to take €15 off him ,
On his next purchase simply ask will I take for the €15 petrol too owing before a report is logged with the Gardai

He will quickly pay albeited probably annoyed (sounds like a tool)

drunkmonkey

Find out his house phone number and call his wife if he doesn't pay the next time. Do not threaten him with the Garda, there is nothing they can do. The wife should confirm who she paid or didn't pay and ask her to say that to her husband.

Don't give credit to anyone without collateral worth more than what they owe you ever again. More often than not people will let you down.

Car99

He didnt give credit the guy took petrol and then said he couldn't pay. Credit agreement is agreed in advance not after .
The seller gave him fair chance to pay now its a matter for the gardaí.

Tell me how

drunkmonkey wrote:

Find out his house phone number and call his wife if he doesn't pay the next time. Do not threaten him with the Garda, there is nothing they can do. The wife should confirm who she paid or didn't pay and ask her to say that to her husband.

Do. Not. Do. This.

Tenigate

I doubt he'll give you the opportunity if he knows he owes the money.

You could always ring in his purchase, along with the other €15, and say "that's €5 plus the €15 from the last day".

I'm sure he'll say "ok", but if he kicks up a fuss, have a plan of action - agreed with your manager. In my view, if he doesn't accept he owes the cash or tries to create confusion, hand him his money back and tell him you cannot serve him until he pays what's owed.

punisher5112

Report theft to employer and if he wants to go further the Gardai need to be given a complaint.

drunkmonkey

Tell me how wrote: »

Do. Not. Do. This.

Why not he said the wife paid call his bluff.

seamus

The next time he comes in you refuse to sell anything else to him until he has paid the €15.

If he arrives on the forecourt you don't turn on the pump until he comes into the shop and pays the €15.

No need to go crazy calling the Gardai over €15, just ensure that his only options are to clear his account or go somewhere else.

5rtytry56

When this customer graces the forecourt again with his patronage make sure to tell us OP! Great thread so far not sure I'd follow all advice just saying

challengemaster

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Why not he said the wife paid call his bluff.

Because that's harassment

Dia1988

Next time said customer arrives on the forecourt, have another employee go out and clamp his car secretly.
Then, you will go out swinging a samurai sword at his direction, in which case h will flee to his car.
He'll drive off but it'll be clamped! Now continue approaching his car, despite the tyres squealing of rubber.

And ask him politely, Can you pay the 15 euro for the petrol last week please?

If he refuses, I'm not sure what else to do!

drunkmonkey

challengemaster wrote: »

Because that's harassment

No it's not. He said she paid your just confirming the facts surrounding it as nobody in store took the payment.

Alanstrainor

This is one for the manager or owner of the station. Ask your superior how to proceed.

jimmycrackcorm

I'm surprised that the forecourt doesn't have a policy on situations of non payment.

For straight theft without payment, itis a matter of reporting to the Gardai. But where credit is extended adhoc like this, then it should be recorded with proof, I. E. Signed for with conditions that it be paid within a period including the next visit.

Then there is no issue taking it from the 50 note. There wouldn't be anyway but you need to have proof covered.

rgodard80a

I'm surprised that the matter wasn't raised by your supervisor when the till was €15 short on the day.

Definitely NOT your fight and not something you have to pursue.
Tell your manager... which you should've on that first day anyway, if you didn't have some form of record book to log these incidents in.

Technically YOU could be accused of theft for taking more of the customers money than their current transaction was for, or for embarrassing/slandering them in public over this.
I worked in a pub and a couple walked out after a minor complaint about service, and the manager thought they hadn't paid.
They turned around with a proper receipt, then sued the pub for the implication of theft... case got settled outside of court on the day.

A garage takes in thousands each day, they're not going to start a fight or even bother a solicitor to write a legal letter to them for that "debt".

Report it go your supervisor and let it go.
If you act as a debt collector for the company you'll risk getting beaten up, fired and/or cause the garage to be sued.

drunkmonkey

Alanstrainor wrote: »

This is one for the manager or owner of the station. Ask your superior how to proceed.

That's an easy one for the manager, the employee owes €15 and gets a warning. I presume he's already told them as he'd be acting fraudulently if he didn't.

LegacyUser

thanks for all the replies!
ok so since wednesday, my fellow co-workers have told me the customer and his wife have been in the shop at least 5 times altogether.
one of my co-workers said she will ask next time she's sees him but general policy is becuase i "gave" the customer the credit, it's technically up to me to get the money off them.
i was working today and they didnt come in while i was there.

gardai are generally only contacted when the amount is much bigger, and, because they are local and regular customers, the boss prefers we deal with them in the shop and not get the gardai involved. and i get when people say "it's only 15euro, get over it", but its the principle of the matter..AND its not the first time this couple has done this. in fact, i was going through our system and i saw the man's wife name on another unpaid fuel transcation from about 2 months ago. and the kids tend to walk out without paying for items from our deli counter. so they aren't decent customers.

but i am beginning to think that most of you are right in that next time he comes in, i will remind hi again and if it's still non-payment, i will have to advise them that i will have to take it to the next level. fair is fair, and why should the shop be out 15euro.

thanks for the advice and replies everyone

dennyk

If these chancers are stealing from your shop on a regular basis, then talk to your manager about barring them from the business. Next time they come around, the manager (or you, if you've the owner's permission or authority) can inform them they're no longer welcome, and if they refuse to leave or they continue to return, you can call the guards at that point to have them removed.

Unfortunately if the manager is unwilling to bar them or get the Gardai involved, there's not much you as an employee can do without going against your boss and risking your job. I'd say it's not worth it in that case; it's ultimately his money at stake, not yours, and if he's willing to let people steal from him without doing something about it, then so be it. Don't let him talk you into doing anything potentially illegal to recover the money, either; it's definitely not worth you risking some sort of legal troubles because your boss is too passive and can't be bothered to properly exercise his own authority over the matter.

TheAnalyst_

punisher5112 wrote: »

Report theft to employer and if he wants to go further the Gardai need to be given a complaint.

Its a civil debt and not a theft.

dennyk

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

Its a civil debt and not a theft.

The guy took something that belonged to someone else (petrol) and didn't pay for it; it's a crime at that point under the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act, 2001:

8.—(1) Subject to subsection (2), a person who, knowing that payment on the spot for any goods obtained or any service done is required or expected, dishonestly makes off without having paid as required or expected and with the intention of avoiding payment on the spot is guilty of an offence.

Now, it's possible that the employee in the shop saying "all right, you can pay for it later" may have turned it into a civil matter, and it would probably prevent the "customer" from being convicted of a higher charge of theft under section 4 because of subsection (2)(a), at least, but the act of filling his tank when he knew he had no money to pay would most likely still be considered a criminal act under section 8. And if he does it again, the employee could certainly say "No, you must pay now" and call the Gardai if the customer refuses at that point, and there'd be no question of it being a crime.

TheAnalyst_

dennyk wrote: »

The guy took something that belonged to someone else (petrol) and didn't pay for it; it's a crime at that point under the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act, 2001:



Now, it's possible that the employee in the shop saying "all right, you can pay for it later" may have turned it into a civil matter, and it would probably prevent the "customer" from being convicted of a higher charge of theft under section 4 because of subsection (2)(a), at least, but the act of filling his tank when he knew he had no money to pay would most likely still be considered a criminal act under section 8. And if he does it again, the employee could certainly say "No, you must pay now" and call the Gardai if the customer refuses at that point, and there'd be no question of it being a crime.

Its not possible, thats exactly what happened.

Filling his tank knowing he had no money? How do you know that? He presented himself at the till. No crime.

You must pay now doesn't work as there is a dispute over a debt owed from weeks ago.

Skedaddle

It's actually not a Garda issue as you gave him credit and he has now not paid the credit back. That turns into a civil matter.

If he just drove off without paying, it would have been a criminal matter.

You'll get nowhere with the Gardai, they can't get into the middle of a civil dispute over credit terms.

You cannot withhold money from a different transaction either. Don't mess around with change. It's not legal.

What your business could do is refuse to transact further business with him until the outstanding debt is paid.

If you're just on the till and it's not your business, this is WAY beyond your pay grade. Let your store manager or business owners deal with this.

Most shops have thought about and formalised policies about how to deal with situations like this. There are certain legal things you need to avoid doing.

For example: having a loud confrontation that resulted in making public accusations can lead to problems, if you accidentally defame someone.

Leave it to your store's manager to decide what to do. It really isn't your call.

sashafierce

This post has been deleted.

tuisginideach

A Guard called to a friend's house years ago - asked her if she had been in X petrol station? "Yes." "You bought fuel and a chocolate bar." "Yes." "Unfortunately, you only paid for the chocolate Bar!" - She had completely forgotten (small kids/baby brain etc) to pay but the garage had followed up with the Guards within days!

Skedaddle

They've opened a tab in this case and offered shop credit. That's why it's not a drive off.

A Rogue Hobo

Hi, I used to manage a supermarket for a good few years so I'm somewhat experienced in this issue. Personally, after a while I had to put my foot down and band all store credit unless there was expressed consent given by the manager on duty at the time because as much as we want to think the best of people, the majority will try to pull one over on you if they think they'll get away with it. I personally wouldnt bother with the guards yet. The chances of them following up on it are slim to none or they might say wait to see if it happens a few times so "they can build up a case". Generally, unless it involves someone they don't like/already known to them or its an armed robbery they're not going to be the most helpful bunch unless you get lucky and have a genuine decent guard respond to your call. If you haven't already, make a copy of the receipt and hang them up behind the tills and in the office, inform all staff that he comes in and pays that theyre to take down all of the receipts. That way you'll know if he has come in and paid when you weren't there (trust me this will save you hassle in the future, avoids all possibility of he said/she said) don't try to keep 15 euro out of his next transaction without asking because then you are in the wrong. Politely ask if you see him did he settle up his bill and if not, when will he? If this persists, inform him (to be honest your supervisor/manager should be doing this, not you) if he doesn't settle up within x amount of time he'll be barred. Simple as that! Hope it works out!

punisher5112

I would also add be extremely careful how it's worded and preferably not in front of other customers as this could well turn into a defamation case like so many these days.

I would let the owner worry about it to be honest.

A Rogue Hobo

punisher5112 wrote:

I would also add be extremely careful how it's worded and preferably not in front of other customers as this could well turn into a defamation case like so many these days.

Also this! Keeping polite is key!