keeping customers money to pay for petrol

davindub

Next time they do it, apologise and offer to siphon the tank. These kind of people know if you show weakness to keep changing their arm.

Corca Baiscinn

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Find out his house phone number and call his wife if he doesn't pay the next time. Do not threaten him with the Garda, there is nothing they can do..

Why do you say that? Many years ago I went into a shop after buying petrol and bought and paid for something else. can't remember exactly now how it happened, possibly met someone I knew and got distacted chatting and forgot to mention the petrol. Anyway within a short time of ariving home the garda were at my door to remind me that I had driven awaay without paying! I hot-footed it back to the shop in mortification!

Maybe that was in the good old days wehn there were more garda and they had less to do

Skedaddle

As pointed out 3 times now, the store has extended credit to the customer. This is not a drive off situation. It's collecting an outstanding debt which is a civil, not a criminal matter.

seamus

Well, one could make the argument that the debt was accrued under duress or bad faith. The customer knew he had no money but filled the vehicle anyway, knowing that when it came time to pay the shop would have no reasonable option except to let him drive off and agree to pay later.

As cited above, one could argue the customer filled up his vehicle with, "the intention of avoiding payment on the spot".

But it's €15. So it's a nice academic exercise, but practically not going to end up court.

A pretty ridiculous shop policy to allow staff to extend credit but make the individual staff members responsible for collecting it. That's wide open to be abused by people who will strategically arrive at the shop depending on what staff member is on, and hope that over time, the other staff will just give up trying to collect. These people are leeches, abusing the naivety of the shop owner.

It's also worth noting that if the shop officially or unofficially allows credit to be extended to customers, this money cannot be taken from staff wages under any circumstances.

So I wouldn't get too worked about it tbh OP. If they arrive back into the shop when you're there, collect the money. If they don't, then it's not your problem.

Doctors room ghost

Our local place here if you got fuel and forgot your money you can leave something with the staff as a guarantee you will come back and pay.drivers license is popular just give it to the staff and get it back later on payment.
He has some neck on him that lad refusing to pay for his fuel twice.thick old boll1x I’d say.
Guards should be told and any luck they would shame him into paying and bar the fukr then afterwards.may his next sh1te be a hedgehog

Caliden

Next time he comes in to buy something refuse to serve him or his wife until he pays what's owed. I don't understand why you're threading so carefully here.

punisher5112

Caliden wrote: »

Next time he comes in to buy something refuse to serve him or his wife until he pays what's owed. I don't understand why you're threading so carefully here.

Look at the daily news.

These are the type of people that will claim defamation or they were highly embarrassed yada yada.

One can't be too careful but as said before leaving it up to the manager or owner is best option.

5rtytry56

punisher5112 wrote: »

One can't be too careful but as said before leaving it up to the manager or owner is best option.

I'm not being snarky op but YOU ARE NOT PAID ENOUGH to be taskedwith this RESPONSIBLITY

mikemac2

The husband & wife have twice not paid for fuel
Their darling kids are learning from the parents and walking out the door stealing stuff from the deli

Inform the manager and get them all barred. The manager seems to be fond of inaction and avoiding making decisions so you can inform the owner too who will not stand for it as it’s their money walking out the door

You don’t stop anyone as it’s easy for a business to get sued and you’ll be the one getting the sack. Leave it to manager & owner to sort out, they earn more exactly for this responsibility

Peregrinus

seamus wrote: »

Well, one could make the argument that the debt was accrued under duress or bad faith.

Wouldn't make any difference. Wheedling credit out of somebody is not theft.

seamus wrote: »

The customer knew he had no money but filled the vehicle anyway, knowing that when it came time to pay the shop would have no reasonable option except to let him drive off and agree to pay later.

There's nothing in the OP to suggest that the customer was aware, at the time he filled his car, that he had no money on him.

seamus wrote: »

As cited above, one could argue the customer filled up his vehicle with, "the intention of avoiding payment on the spot".

You could argue it, but without any evidence you may as well save your breath.

It's a civil matter. There is no prospect whatsoever of a prosecution for theft, much less a conviction.

seamus wrote: »

A pretty ridiculous shop policy to allow staff to extend credit but make the individual staff members responsible for collecting it.

Agreed.

In fact it's more than ridiculous; it's unfair on the staff member involved. If the debtor can continue to come into the garage and get served by other staff members without settling his debt, that makes it very difficult to pressurise him effectively to settle up. It's unfair to adopt a policy which makes the staff member responsible for collecting the debt, and simultaneously undercuts his attempts to do so.

seamus wrote: »

It's also worth noting that if the shop officially or unofficially allows credit to be extended to customers, this money cannot be taken from staff wages under any circumstances.

Correct, and the OP should take note of this.

OP, ask your manager if you are to continue to serve this customer if he fails to settle his debt. If your manager says "yes" then forget the whole thing ever occurred; just serve the customer as if this incident had never happened. If your manager says "no" suggest that he give a similar directive to the rest of the staff.

To answer the question raised in the OP, if the customer comes in and tenders payment for another purchase and change is due to him, do not quietly withhold the 15 euros. And do not tell him that you are withholding the 15 euros. Ask him if you are to settle the 15 euro debt out of his change. If he says "yes", grand; if he says "no" then tell him you can't serve him at all (assuming that is what your manager has told you).

kravmaga

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

Its a civil debt and not a theft.

No its not its a Theft, making off without payment is a criminal offence, no matter how little or large the amount, its not a civil debt.

Peregrinus

kravmaga wrote: »

No its not its a Theft, making off without payment is a criminal offence, no matter how little or large the amount, its not a civil debt.

But he didn't "make off". He went in and negotiated credit and, having been granted credit, he left.

No theft. No offence.

If you simply fill up and drive off, the offence you'll be charged with is Making Off Without Payment, an offence under Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act 2001 section 8. The offence is committed by someone who, "knowing that payment on the spot for any goods obtained or any service done is required or expected, dishonestly makes off without having paid as required or expected and with the intention of avoiding payment on the spot". The word "dishonestly" is crucial there; you can't be convicted of the offence unless your dishonesty is proven. And having gone into the shop, identified yourself, acknowledged obtaining the goods or services, explained your inability to pay, asked for credit and undertaken to pay at a later date is not indicative of dishonesty. Even if credit were refused and you left anyway, you couldn't be convicted on these facts.

Nor is the offence retrospectively committed if, at a later date, you fail to pay. The offence requires that you have had a dishonest intention at the time; it's not enough that you decided later not to bother paying.

So, basically, this is not a criminal matter, the guards will not interest themselves, and there is no chance of a prosecution.

CeilingFly

To answer the op, yes you can take the €15 if he hands you in €50 for a purchase under €35

Strictly from a legal perspective no retailer has to give change if more than they asked for is offered. Though a retailer that didn't give change would be closed down very quickly.

TheAnalyst_

kravmaga wrote: »

No its not its a Theft, making off without payment is a criminal offence, no matter how little or large the amount, its not a civil debt.

Its not a criminal offence unless you can prove criminal intent.

Source: I'm the source on what makes something a crime.

TheAnalyst_

Drive offs are quite often not criminal offences either. A person can genuinely forget or at least say that they forgot and if a garda and/or judge believe them then its not an offence.