Stick or twist in Civil Service?

Ygritte

This thread has struck a chord with me. Myself and a friend of mine just started recently enough, different departments....similar experience. Both of us would have worked in the private sector previously. I'm getting really down over the whole thing, and I'm not there long at all. I honestly don't know if I'll stick the two years to apply for transfer to another department....but to be fair it's more like 5 years before you get offered a transfer and "released"...of course a transfer could be jumping from the frying pan into the fire too...

The difference with the private sector is that people are always starting/leaving jobs, there's constant movement but in the CS there are loads who are there YEARS already and never intend on leaving so boredom and cliques are commonplace....finding that hard to deal with because it's like being in school trying to humour the popular ones to fit in....:rolleyes:

I wonder has anyone actually left the civil service and lived to tell the tale....how would you explain it in an interview because lots see it as the holy grail of jobs.

Indricotherium

Ygritte wrote: »

how would you explain it in an interview

I want to contribute to something.

Asus X540L

I'm about 4 months in.
Just about finished training

Kamu

Asus X540L wrote: »

I'm about 4 months in.
Just about finished training

What do you think about it so far?

I'm two months in, and the person who trained me explained the differences between private and public perfectly;

"The civil service hire 4 people to do the job that 2 people in the private would get paid for, and give you a week to do what is expected of the private in a day"

Indricotherium

Kamu wrote: »

What do you think about it so far?

I'm two months in, and the person who trained me explained the differences between private and public perfectly;

"The civil service hire 4 people to do the job that 2 people in the private would get paid for, and give you a week to do what is expected of the private in a day"

I remember my first day.

"We don't really do anything here. Ten files come in we look at them, ten files go out. Everybody's happy."

Kamu

Indricotherium wrote: »

I remember my first day.

"We don't really do anything here. Ten files come in we look at them, ten files go out. Everybody's happy."

My immediate boss went to me yesterday and said

"We're in a quiet period at the moment, not normally this quiet , but you can continue on with the filling I gave you last week."

My response,

"I did all the filling you gave me last week.... Last week."

"Oh, well. I don't mind you on your phone."

And I'm in a finance section. Hahaha

relax carry on

It depends on what section of the civil service you are in. I'm in Revenue and there aren't enough days in the week for the amount of work to deal with.

I've worked in 7 different areas in the organisation and been promoted twice in my 10 years there. Every section was always busy. It is what you make of it but if you want progression then you have to earn it. Doing your job even very well isn't enough, you need to keep pushing to be added to networks, projects etc to progress. And if you can find something that is broken or can be done better and fix it. Find the right people to get your ideas across to, make sure they are implemented and make sure you are credited for it. Also training, bite their hands off for training to show to you are committed to the organisation and progression.

bobbysands81

I don’t recognize the Civil Service that’s being described in this thread. Perhaps the Civil Service of 10 years ago but the service has completely changed imo.

Every large employer has people who swing the lead but do just about enough to get by, the CS is the same. However, reading this thread the same lazy stereotypes exist, 100% of people work at 100% capacity 100% of the time in the private sector...

Over half the people that work in the CS are entry level Civil Servants.

Without doubt many Civil Servants clock-in, do just enough work, clock out. This is the same as every private sector job I’ve worked in.

Without doubt many Civil Servants are highly qualified, in fact overqualified, extremely hard working and very competent at what they do.

Most senior managers would earn far more in the private sector than the CS.

If you’re bored in your role then change roles, if you can’t change roles then upskill (the CS will pay for it). If you’re still bored then change Dept.

The amount of roles in the CS is incredible, if you’re bored in your job and you remain in it then you’ve nobody to blame but yourself. If you’re not happy in work then change something.

4ensic15

Some people are natural civil servants. Others are not. If you are not a natural civil servant, it is best to avoid the civil service.

beauf

4ensic15 wrote: »

Some people are natural civil servants. Others are not. If you are not a natural civil servant, it is best to avoid the civil service.

So that would be a doctor when he does public patients. But not when he does private patients....

4ensic15

beauf wrote: »

So that would be a doctor when he does public patients. But not when he does private patients....

It is the mentality, not the work.

beauf

So their mentality changes depending on the customer.

How about a private contractor working a contract for the public sector. Same thing...

4ensic15

beauf wrote: »

So their mentality changes depending on the customer.

How about a private contractor working a contract for the public sector. Same thing...

They are not a civil servant.

KaneToad

Augeo wrote: »

... You have folk with arts degrees in history and similar stuff strutting about doing next to nothing thinking they are major contributors, the public sector facilitates that and pays them well.

Arts degrees. In history. My goodness!
How do they manage to dress themselves in the morning.

4ensic15

KaneToad wrote: »

Arts degrees. In history. My goodness!
How do they manage to dress themselves in the morning.

They don't. Their mothers do it for them!

bobbysands81

4ensic15 wrote: »

It is the mentality, not the work.

Always loads of experts regarding the Civil who really haven’t a clue what they’re talking about. Generally they’re the ones that didn’t make it through the exams and interviews!

beauf

4ensic15 wrote: »

They are not a civil servant.

But they are doing the same work and for the same customers.

How about a civil servant working in the private sector on a career brake.

4ensic15

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Always loads of experts regarding the Civil who really haven’t a clue what they’re talking about. Generally they’re the ones that didn’t make it through the exams and interviews!

You have it bad!

4ensic15

beauf wrote: »

But they are doing the same work and for the same customers.

How about a civil servant working in the private sector on a career brake.

A contractor working for a public service organisation is not a civil servant no matter what work he does.

A civil servant is a civil servant whether working for the government or not. Whether he is a natural civil servant or not
is a different matter.

HandsomeBob

Publicsector OP wrote: »

Thanks everyone - I'm not surprised that others are considering the same. I do have some relevant qualifications and I am working above my current grade so on that side of things I am well placed.

I have built good relationships with work colleagues and learned that one of the differences between the private sector where I got promoted based on performance and the public sector is the emphasis on the competency application forms and structured interviews in the latter.

You need to be able to score the points on the wheel of competencies to get an interview, and then deliver a similar performance in person on the day. From my experience nearly everyone is getting considerable help from those around them on how to fill out the forms and coached for the interviews.

I don't personally like it as I think current job performance should play into it more. Aside from a short written recommendation on whether an applicant is suitable for a role from a line manager, I have not heard of them getting consulted by interview panels at any stage of the process.

Now I am not bad at the tests in general and can get help on the other aspects.

I am applying for a variety of things in the service at the moment that are open competitions. As per my original post I could probably move to the private sector and earn more though. It's not my primary motivation but it is a thing..

Not sure how long you were in the Private Sector OP, but in terms of promotions if the Public Sector are based on competency tests and interviews then they are no different. I'd be well sorted at this stage if it was based in performance alone in the Private Sector!

Just on what you said about not being able to abide lazy coworkers and management don't want to have the bother of dealing with them....again, you might be in for a ride awakening, as this happens in the Private Sector also.

I'd just give it time OP as the grass isn't always greener is what I'm trying to say. I don't think a job change will fix the things that are annoying you because they happen everywhere.

beauf

4ensic15 wrote: »

A contractor working for a public service organisation is not a civil servant no matter what work he does.

A civil servant is a civil servant whether working for the government or not. Whether he is a natural civil servant or not
is a different matter.

So...Someone who has never worked in the civil service can be a civil servant. Someone working in the civil service isn't.

Makes perfect sense...

4ensic15

beauf wrote: »

So...Someone who has never worked in the civil service can be a civil servant. Someone working in the civil service isn't.

Makes perfect sense...

Where is there a reference to a person who has never worked in the civil service?

beauf

Publicsector OP wrote: »

....For those who have faced this same dilemma before and left or stayed in the service, did yous regret it?...

I don't know anyone who left and regretted it. I know people who left and came back, but it was more to do family friendly policies and they would be the people who move around a lot anyway. Most would be mid to high level everywhere they go public or private as they would have experience and skill set that would enable them to move.

beauf

4ensic15 wrote: »

Where is there a reference to a person who has never worked in the civil service?

You said the work was irrelevant.

Basically is just a label that you apply with no logic or rational. So you can apply it to every situation, because it has no meaning and every meaning you want.

beauf

HandsomeBob wrote: »

...I'd just give it time OP as the grass isn't always greener is what I'm trying to say. I don't think a job change will fix the things that are annoying you because they happen everywhere.

You get civil servants everywhere even in the private sector. You get private sector people in the civil services.

It's very much about the management culture in the specific place you work.

theyoungchap

Have worked in the public sector before. I honestly found it the most frustrating, miserable existence of my life. I left and haven't regretted it for a day.
I couldn't stand looking at some lazy **** who wouldn't work during the day let alone overtime. I couldn't stand the "slow down stop working so hard" mentality. I couldn't stand that **** people got the same pay rise. I couldn't stand the 1980s feel of the offices.
I hated going to work. I literally waited for the clock to roll around and head home. I was nothing short of miserable.

I am in the private sector now, I am busy (most of the time), challenged, and ambition is being rewarded with increased responsibility all the time. I work in a dynamic environment. The days and weeks fly by. I get pay rises, bonuses, etc which I deserve rather than for showing up to work and clocking in/out. I work from the office or from home. And you don't have somebody telling you to slow down. If you want to progress you do more, not just row in with the culture.

Being honest, no amount of job security, pension, etc is worth spending your life working somewhere you hate. You only get 1 life. And don't believe the "oh you'll regret it in a downturn" nonsense - that is a cyclical few years and while it might be hard at the time, it's still better than spending your life in a miserable job. Plenty of employers (my own included) are now flexible, work from home options, etc are available because they have to be to attract talented people (which you probably are given your attitude to work).

Why anybody would spend their life in the CS is a mystery to me.

Miose

About 15 years ago I was doing a HR course and on the first day the lecturer asked how many were working in the public sector. Maybe half were. She said that by the end of the course, most would be. Now, granted, that was around the time of benchmarking and wage agreements, however, a huge number did move to the public sector. Job security, conditions, flexibility, paid for training, family friendly policies, it was a no-brainier if you were looking at private v public sector industries from a HR perspective. You might see people making huge money in the private sector but you don’t hear about how they are on salary and end up working 60 hours per week, you don’t hear how they can’t co-ordinate holiday time and can’t take a family holiday, you don’t hear how they don’t get full wages when on maternity leave, only the statutory payment. You don’t hear about the people who are managed out of companies, who have unrealistic targets that they will never achieve, that have working conditions that don’t meet legislative requirements because the companies are prepared to take the fine rather than improve them. You don’t hear about them going to the ATM to withdraw wages that aren’t there because the company went bust, the takeovers that change everything, the multinationals that pull plant because they can source cheaper labour in other countries. I’m in the workforce for over 20 years now, and like someone else said, I see various friends and family members actively attempting to get public sector jobs at this stage of their lives because the benefits far outweigh the negatives.

theyoungchap

OK well time to debunk a few myths in the above post:

"Job security" - I don't have that. But I reckon if I was laid off I'd get another job. Point to 2010 if you want but it's a 40 year working life rather than every year......

"conditions, flexibility, paid for training, family friendly policies" - I have all of those. I can work from home whenever I want, etc. I get sent on relevant training courses to help me rather than one because its a day out of the office which I am not interested in (which happens all the time in the CS - how many people in the CS go for the morning of the course and go home sick at lunch time? It is rampant and we both know that).

"You might see people making huge money in the private sector but you don’t hear about how they are on salary and end up working 60 hours per week" - I've never worked 60 hours per week in my life. The odd time I have to work a bit late - so what? It is not an armageddon to work a bit late from time to time.

"You don’t hear how they can’t co-ordinate holiday time and can’t take a family holiday" - you might need to be flexible by a week or two depending on others, but I have never had a problem with holidays.

"you don’t hear how they don’t get full wages when on maternity leave" - plenty of private sector companies offer paid maternity leave (beyond 2 years say).

"You don’t hear about the people who are managed out of companies" people are managed out of companies if they are s***e.

"who have unrealistic targets that they will never achieve" - very few people have unrealistic targets.

"that have working conditions that don’t meet legislative requirements because the companies are prepared to take the fine rather than improve them" I have never worked for a company who didn't provide legal working conditions.

"You don’t hear about them going to the ATM to withdraw wages that aren’t there because the company went bust" - Yes, companys collapse all the time. But how often does it happen relative to the amount of people who get paid on time?

"the takeovers that change everything, the multinationals that pull plant because they can source cheaper labour in other countries" - So what? Most people who are any good will get a job elsewhere.

Sounds like you are getting your news from Joe Duffy or the worst case scenario in every situation and assuming every company is all the things you described above. Which is not the case.

beauf

theyoungchap wrote: »

OK well time to debunk a few myths in the above post: ..

They are not myths. You just haven't experienced them so for you they don't exist. Some people will never experience them. That just life.

bobbysands81

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Always loads of experts regarding the Civil who really haven’t a clue what they’re talking about. Generally they’re the ones that didn’t make it through the exams and interviews!

Or the ones who didn't fancy a sh1t wage for doing next to nothing for their careers