Stick or twist in Civil Service?

beauf

I'm not sure most people would agree with you that not doing any actual work is irrelevant.

beauf

Publicsector OP wrote: »

...... I really like that my in my current role instead of making money for a corporation I get the chance to
contribute something to society on a daily basis. .........

wants to be rewarded/recognized for that effort. ....

I was surprised how many I met who felt the same about doing a job that helped others and wasn't about money.

Though I'd be the same I like to have some form of recognition for a project well done. Perhaps that just what I'm used to from being a contractor or having your own business. Or in internationals with share options and bonuses. Even award ceremonys etc.

uck51js9zml2yt

Augeo wrote: »

Where did I say that?
I would imagine most COs wouldn't know an investment portfolio from a hard days work though. They certainly won't be able to manage their own pension and their salaries aren't conducive to having much left over to invest.

You imagine wrong. A lot of co's with Decades of real world experience before joining the CS. I'm 2 years a co. Just got EO on the open competition with. Significant pay rise.
I spent years in management.

Peter Faint Pane

Peter Faint Pane wrote: »

You imagine wrong. A lot of co's with Decades of real world experience before joining the CS. I'm 2 years a co. Just got EO on the open competition with. Significant pay rise.
I spent years in management.

After your decades of experience you started where on the CO payscale?

Management is a loose enough term..... every retail outlet has at least one person working in management

And you reckon the majority of COs are familiar with investment portfolios? Come off it.

theyoungchap

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Are you going to save €2 million? I know a man, now 69 who left a HEO appointment many years ago to become a solicitor. He now has a pension of about €200 per week. If you stayed in the Civil Service and never got another promotion he would have a pension of €600 per week. To buy an annuity at the age of 65 which increases in line with inflation giving €600 week now for life would cost over €1 million. Needless to say this man does not have €1 million.

If I spent 30 years in the CS to get it, I would probably be in St. John of God having wished my life away to get to the point I can enjoy my pension.

There is much more to life than a pension pot you know. The thoughts of spending my life in a soul-destroying work environment, full of laziness, clock watchers, etc just to get to a point in my life where I can enjoy a pension, I just don't get how or why anybody could do it.

I would tolerate redundancies, unemployment, etc in preference. Good times and bad, roll with the punches, rather than spend my life in such a miserable environment.

Bob Cratchit

Have to point out lads that those golden pensions are not available to anyone who joined the civil service after 2013. The Single Pension Scheme isn't anywhere near as generous.

AndrewJRenko

To the OP, there are indeed many cultural issues within the civil service (as there are in most large organisation). You have the choice of staying, and being part of the solution - being the line manager that does actually deal with non-performers, and being the line manager that does develop and enhance the careers of their staff.

4ensic15

beauf wrote: »

I'm not sure most people would agree with you that not doing any actual work is irrelevant.

I was not writing about the quantity of work but they type! I am sorry if English is not your first language.

beauf

4ensic15 wrote: »

I was not writing about the quantity of work but they type! I am sorry if English is not your first language.

Typists? You've an issue with typists?

...and you don't care about productivity.

I don't think many will agree with you.

beauf

theyoungchap wrote: »

....The thoughts of spending my life in a soul-destroying work environment...

I've thought the same in private sector company and just moved to the next one. I'd do the same if I was had the same experience in the CS. As you did. As do loads of others. People move around. I don't get the drama.

uck51js9zml2yt

Augeo wrote: »

After your decades of experience you started where on the CO payscale?

Management is a loose enough term..... every retail outlet has at least one person working in management

And you reckon the majority of COs are familiar with investment portfolios? Come off it.

I was managing logistics teams with a multi million euro budget and a large customer base. And putting in 70+ hours a week. I started were every co starts on the scale but it suited my situation. 2 of us in my unit have managed large teams in the real world but the flexibility and family friendliness of the CS suits us both. Both of us have gotten promotions in the last while.
There's lots of very bright CO's and then there's the rest!

4ensic15

beauf wrote: »

I don't think many will agree with you.

Is this an election or a debate on the merits?

fg1406

I’m someone who was in the Public Sector, went to the private sector and now back to the public sector. I will agree it is probably the most demoralising place to work. A great place if you are a terminal underachiever and don’t mind doing as little as possible for your wage. There is zero incentive to go over and above and no thanks for hard graft, or any form of recognition. You’ll get paid the same (and often less if you’ve joined after 2013) than the person scratching their sack all day in the next cubicle over.

I’m currently in college at night doing a masters and I have a 5 year plan to get the hell out of there, so my advice would be to lay the groundwork for exiting over the next few years. I’m only sorry I didn’t take redundancy in 2010 but my circumstances didn’t allow it at the time but I’m more financially settled (ie wedding and house purchase out of the way) so I’m getting ready to get the hell out of there before I go mad with work related stress.

HydroTendonMan

I find it hard to believe that there is actually a stigma attached to people going the extra mile in work. This idea of 'taking our overtime' is ridiculous.

I have a friend who works in the CS and is definitely the overachiever type who has never had this experience.

Pawwed Rig

HydroTendonMan wrote: »

I have a friend who works in the CS and is definitely the overachiever type who has never had this experience.

My brother and sister both work in public sector. Brother agrees with everything in the thread. Sister doesn't. Seems to be different departments with different cultures.

Personally I deal with Revenue a lot and find them reasonably good 80% of the time (if not a bit slow to respond on things). On the other hand I also deal with the Dept of Social Protection regularly and have yet to have a good experience.

Dealings with the Immigration office leave me pulling my hair out in frustration.

theyoungchap

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Personally I deal with Revenue a lot and find them reasonably good 80% of the time (if not a bit slow to respond on things). On the other hand I also deal with the Dept of Social Protection regularly and have yet to have a good experience.

I wonder why.....one brings in all the money to the exchequer and the other pays it out.....by far the best people in the entire CS work in Revenue.

Try dealing with your local authority if you want to see incompetence at its finest.

I suppose, getting back to the OP, it depends what you want in life.

If you want job security, a good pension, and to spend your life in a soul-destroying environment and culture, the PS is fine.

If you want to experience something different every few years, move up the ladder based on ability rather than service, and to have hard work and effort rewarded, then you move on. You might have bumps along the way, occasional unemployment, etc, but that won't be forever either.

That would be my take on it anyway. To each their own I suppose.

Claw Hammer

HydroTendonMan wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that there is actually a stigma attached to people going the extra mile in work. This idea of 'taking our overtime' is ridiculous.

I have a friend who works in the CS and is definitely the overachiever type who has never had this experience.

Then he is a liar.

HydroTendonMan

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

My brother and sister both work in public sector. Brother agrees with everything in the thread. Sister doesn't. Seems to be different departments with different cultures.

Personally I deal with Revenue a lot and find them reasonably good 80% of the time (if not a bit slow to respond on things). On the other hand I also deal with the Dept of Social Protection regularly and have yet to have a good experience.

Dealings with the Immigration office leave me pulling my hair out in frustration.

Yeah this is true, I know from dealing with DSP in the past that they could be particularly slow. I wonder if it varies depending on seniority etc. Generally speaking I would have to assume it is the same as the public sector and it varies person to person.

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Then he is a liar.

Good to know constructive discussion is still live and well.

bobbysands81

theyoungchap wrote: »

If you want to experience something different every few years, move up the ladder based on ability rather than service, and to have hard work and effort rewarded, then you move on. You might have bumps along the way, occasional unemployment, etc, but that won't be forever either.

That would be my take on it anyway. To each their own I suppose.

This is the type of clueless comment on the CS that is incredibly annoying.

theyoungchap

bobbysands81 wrote: »

This is the type of clueless comment on the CS that is incredibly annoying.

Do elaborate (and bear in mind I have worked there as well, so I don't think it is "clueless")

4ensic15

bobbysands81 wrote: »

This is the type of clueless comment on the CS that is incredibly annoying.

Typical comment of the cheerleader civil servant.

Claw Hammer

theyoungchap wrote: »

If I spent 30 years in the CS to get it, I would probably be in St. John of God having wished my life away to get to the point I can enjoy my pension.

There is much more to life than a pension pot you know. The thoughts of spending my life in a soul-destroying work environment, full of laziness, clock watchers, etc just to get to a point in my life where I can enjoy a pension, I just don't get how or why anybody could do it.

I would tolerate redundancies, unemployment, etc in preference. Good times and bad, roll with the punches, rather than spend my life in such a miserable environment.

It is going to be worse spending 30 years in retirement, living on the clippings of tin, while you watch former civil servants living in relative comfort with inflation proofed pensions.

theyoungchap

Claw Hammer wrote: »

It is going to be worse spending 30 years in retirement, living on the clippings of tin, while you watch former civil servants living in relative comfort with inflation proofed pensions.

Is your sole goal in life to get a decent pension? If that is the best selling point for the CS then I despair.

My pension pot is developing nicely too I will have you know......and I won't spend 30-35 years of misery in the interim.

Weren't you the guy who was banned from posting on the Thai cave rescue for saying the teacher deserved to die? Says it all.....

bobbysands81

theyoungchap wrote: »

Do elaborate (and bear in mind I have worked there as well, so I don't think it is "clueless")

“If you want to experience something different every few years, move up the ladder based on ability rather than service, and to have hard work and effort rewarded, then you move on.”

Mobility within the CS means that you’re moved around every few years. You get loads of chances to experience something different. I’ve worked on a huge array of projects, inquiries, legislation, policy, operations etc... without having to leave my employer. I’ve worked in 4 different Department in my time in the CS.

Also, there is no such thing as seniority whatsoever when it comes to promotion in the Civil Service, the amount of service you have is utterly irrelevant. Promotions are solely on ability and merit. Who you know or how long you’re in the job count for absolutely nothing.

HydroTendonMan

bobbysands81 wrote: »

“If you want to experience something different every few years, move up the ladder based on ability rather than service, and to have hard work and effort rewarded, then you move on.”

Mobility within the CS means that you’re moved around every few years. You get loads of chances to experience something different. I’ve worked on a huge array of projects, inquiries, legislation, policy, operations etc... without having to leave my employer. I’ve worked in 4 different Department in my time in the CS.

Also, there is no such thing as seniority whatsoever when it comes to promotion in the Civil Service, the amount of service you have is utterly irrelevant. Promotions are solely on ability and merit. Who you know or how long you’re in the job count for absolutely nothing.

How many threads has this been mentioned in where it is completely ignored by people bashing the civil service and its cronyism?

It should be a sticky at the top of the forum at this point

Wanderer2010

bobbysands81 wrote: »

“Also, there is no such thing as seniority whatsoever when it comes to promotion in the Civil Service, the amount of service you have is utterly irrelevant. Promotions are solely on ability and merit. Who you know or how long you’re in the job count for absolutely nothing.

I find that extremely hard to believe. Every single job on the planet is a lot of "who you know" plus from my own experiences, lads who got into offices and civil servant jobs generally got in because their mother/father/aunt etc put in a word. To claim otherwise is rubbish.

Claw Hammer

theyoungchap wrote: »

Is your sole goal in life to get a decent pension? If that is the best selling point for the CS then I despair.

My pension pot is developing nicely too I will have you know......and I won't spend 30-35 years of misery in the interim.

Weren't you the guy who was banned from posting on the Thai cave rescue for saying the teacher deserved to die? Says it all.....

My sole goal in life is not to get a decent pension, however it is a very significant ambition not to spend the latter part of my life piss poor, like I spent the initial period of it.

HydroTendonMan

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I find that extremely hard to believe. Every single job on the planet is a lot of "who you know" plus from my own experiences, lads who got into offices and civil servant jobs generally got in because their mother/father/aunt etc put in a word. To claim otherwise is rubbish.

No to claim otherwise is fact. And public information if you are bothered to search for it.

Maybe this was once the case, but it is all done now via open competition.

relax carry on

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I find that extremely hard to believe. Every single job on the planet is a lot of "who you know" plus from my own experiences, lads who got into offices and civil servant jobs generally got in because their mother/father/aunt etc put in a word. To claim otherwise is rubbish.

The thread is about the civil service not the public sector in general. Do you know how recruitment works in the Civil Service? Your post is pretty much tabloid rubbish re Civil Service recruitment.

https://www.publicjobs.ie/en/what-we-do

theyoungchap

Claw Hammer wrote: »

My sole goal in life is not to get a decent pension, however it is a very significant ambition not to spend the latter part of my life piss poor, like I spent the initial period of it.

I can assure you, plenty of us in the private sector will not be poor in our retirement either, and won't work in a miserable soul destroying environment in the meantime to get it.

Sure we could all be dead by the time we get there, just like you hoped the teacher in the Thai cave would be...........