Severe Winter Weather: ESSENTIAL PREPARATIONS, TRAVEL ADVICE, DRIVING TIPS & CLOSURES

touts

irishrover99 wrote: »

Can anyone tell me why their was only 720 army personnel deployed during the the storm. (Correct me if I'm wrong on this number)
Seriously what else are they used for in this country.

They could help with food deliveries and road clearance in the major town and cites,

If Emma hadn't stalled, can you imagine how bad things would have been.

How many full time army do we have in the country?

I'm not slagging them off personally but all I see them do all year is provide escorts for the president, criminals going to court and money going to/ from the mint in the sandyford.

I remember a few years ago you would see their trucks on the news out helping in floods, snow, etc. Now you'd rarely see any mention of them. We could trot out the old line that the problem is mainly down to cutbacks etc. But I suspect the main issue is what's left in the Army have probably gone like the HSE. Back office administration and accountancy have become the core functions at the expense of the frontline.

We're just getting by now but I fear someday there will be a major disaster and many of these essential, and very expensive, elements to the state's response won't be fit for purpose because clipboards and keyboards won't get the job done.

_Dara_

Polar101 wrote: »

Well it's a numbers game, how much money do you want to spend on emergency committees, closed businesses and shutting down the country in general? Versus the cost of preparing for it in case it happens. I'm from a Nordic country and we get this kind of 'emergency' 2-5 months a year. Every year, not just 1947, 1982, 2010 and 2018. In Ireland a 3-day winter is a national crisis. I've no problem with the government's reaction to the winter, it seemed to be very well handled. It's just that the money can be spent in other ways as well.

Well, you’ve answered your own question. In Nordic nations, the cost-benefit analysis says that the expenditure to keep the country going is worth it. 2-5 months EVERY single year.

In Ireland, something like this might happen for a week or so every five years. The cost to the economy would still be much lower than the cost of introducing the equipment and processes to deal with extreme weather events.

The situations in Ireland and in Nordic countries are just not comparable. I’m not sure why you put emergency in inverted commas really.

irishrover99

touts wrote: »

I remember a few years ago you would see their trucks on the news out helping in floods, snow, etc. Now you'd rarely see any mention of them. We could trot out the old line that the problem is mainly down to cutbacks etc. But I suspect the main issue is what's left in the Army have probably gone like the HSE. Back office administration and accountancy have become the core functions at the expense of the frontline.

We're just getting by now but I fear someday there will be a major disaster and many of these essential, and very expensive, elements to the state's response won't be fit for purpose because clipboards and keyboards won't get the job done.

But if they are getting paid anyway, surely it's no more cost to the economy.

I seen that some were not ready to be deployed because of training, but in other countries, armies do all their training in these conditions.

I was out clearing my road and walking about as bad as it was.

erica74

Polar101 wrote: »

Well it's a numbers game, how much money do you want to spend on emergency committees, closed businesses and shutting down the country in general? Versus the cost of preparing for it in case it happens. I'm from a Nordic country and we get this kind of 'emergency' 2-5 months a year. Every year, not just 1947, 1982, 2010 and 2018. In Ireland a 3-day winter is a national crisis. I've no problem with the government's reaction to the winter, it seemed to be very well handled. It's just that the money can be spent in other ways as well.

This wasn't an "emergency" in Ireland, it was an emergency. People spent many an hour bickering over whether the red alert and instruction to stay indoors was justified but I think we can all now agree that it was. Part of enforcing the red alert was to ensure roads were clear of people incapable of driving in this weather, clear of abandoned vehicles, ensuring emergency personnel could get around and ensuring the clean up, snow ploughs and gritters could get through yesterday and today and be able to clear all the roads and not have to work around abandoned vehicles etc. And that was just one small part of the red alert for Ireland.
We don't have the money for the type of infrastructure Nordic countries have as it is not cost effective for something that happens once every 5 - 10 years, although if experts are to be believed, this type of weather event is going to get a lot more common here so they may have to revisit the matter.

Macy0161

touts wrote: »

We're just getting by now but I fear someday there will be a major disaster and many of these essential, and very expensive, elements to the state's response won't be fit for purpose because clipboards and keyboards won't get the job done.

People have to get real with their expectations too. We're not 24 hours out from the end of the event, and people in estates and upland/ rural back roads giving out about being cut off and abandoned! That's not a legitimate expectation imo, when they are still working on getting the regional road network operational.

There's no point opening up a back road to a village, when the village is cut off from the town or national network, so doesn't have the provisions needed anyway. Like I said, we're not 24 hours from the falling snow from this event.

BTW, I would've said I've seen the defence forces in action on Facebook - again not every town has a barracks. I would suggest more likely they'll be deployed in a security capacity in future events, given the behaviour of some of our population in recent days.

Nettle Soup

irishrover99 wrote: »

Can anyone tell me why their was only 720 army personnel deployed during the the storm. (Correct me if I'm wrong on this number)
Seriously what else are they used for in this country.

They could help with food deliveries and road clearance in the major town and cites,

If Emma hadn't stalled, can you imagine how bad things would have been.

How many full time army do we have in the country?

I'm not slagging them off personally but all I see them do all year is provide escorts for the president, criminals going to court and money going to/ from the mint in the sandyford.

Ivan Yates ask same question. He said there was 9000 in the army but only 300 active on a given day during the big snow. Who knows what they actually do most of the time.

haminka

Polar101 wrote: »

Well it's a numbers game, how much money do you want to spend on emergency committees, closed businesses and shutting down the country in general? Versus the cost of preparing for it in case it happens. I'm from a Nordic country and we get this kind of 'emergency' 2-5 months a year. Every year, not just 1947, 1982, 2010 and 2018. In Ireland a 3-day winter is a national crisis. I've no problem with the government's reaction to the winter, it seemed to be very well handled. It's just that the money can be spent in other ways as well.

How cost-effective would it be to build flood defences in a Sahara? You are truly ridiculous if you expect Ireland having the same level of readiness as countries where snow and ice are standard.
Btw, I come from a country like that myself. It was -27 in the nights and -11 with sharp winds during the day plus constant snow where I come from this week. But I know the difference between my home country and Ireland so I know that you can hardly expect drivers in Ireland to change to winter tyres in November or October because winter and for the sake of three days of snow you can't have a fleet of snow ploughs and diggers etc. sitting somewhere just in case. The machinery needs to be services and maintained and used to be any good. And you just don't get that over here to justify the expense.

wakka12

haminka wrote: »

How cost-effective would it be to build flood defences in a Sahara? You are truly ridiculous if you expect Ireland having the same level of readiness as countries where snow and ice are standard.
Btw, I come from a country like that myself. It was -27 in the nights and -11 with sharp winds during the day plus constant snow where I come from this week. But I know the difference between my home country and Ireland so I know that you can hardly expect drivers in Ireland to change to winter tyres in November or October because winter and for the sake of three days of snow you can't have a fleet of snow ploughs and diggers etc. sitting somewhere just in case. The machinery needs to be services and maintained and used to be any good. And you just don't get that over here to justify the expense.

Of course Ireland shouldn't have same regulations and provisions as that country you live in does. But we should have some more toned down versions seeing as snowfall is not so rare here that it never causes disruption , for instance everyone in Ireland should maybe simply own a pair of snow chains in case ,rather than being made drive in snow tyres all winter

haminka

wakka12 wrote: »

Of course Ireland shouldn't have same regulations and provisions as that country you live in does. But we should have some more toned down versions seeing as snowfall is not so rare here that it never causes disruption , for instance everyone in Ireland should maybe simply own a pair of snow chains in case ,rather than being made drive in snow tyres all winter

Snow chains won't help you if you're stuck in a drift. This isn't about skidding, it's simply about the overall readiness of the country. We had our local council cleaning the roads, starting with the main ones, then continuing onto the backroads and yesterday we had a JCB clearing the path in our estate too so well done.
I am glad the Government reacted the way they did. Look at the UK. People dead, stuck on the motorways in freezing weather, their emergency services were completely stretched. They had much bigger problems and all because they continued like nothing was happening. Ireland took it seriously and it paid off.

Heroditas

wakka12 wrote: »

Of course Ireland shouldn't have same regulations and provisions as that country you live in does. But we should have some more toned down versions seeing as snowfall is not so rare here that it never causes disruption , for instance everyone in Ireland should maybe simply own a pair of snow chains in case ,rather than being made drive in snow tyres all winter

We don't get enough snow to warrant snow chains. The chains would destroy the roads unless we got ridiculous amounts of snow.

EDIT: snow socks would probably be more appropriate. They only last a few days but that's all you'd need them for.

haminka

Heroditas wrote: »

We don't get enough snow to warrant snow chains. The chains would destroy the roads unless we got ridiculous amounts of snow.

The only thing I'd say would be recommended is a decent pair of snow boots. The amount of people in wellies and hiking boots I saw those few couple of days was staggering. None of them has proper grip. Hiking boots are designed to have a good grip on rocks and have a hard sole which slips. Wellies are good for wet muck but they won't keep you warm and, again, the sole may slip.
I invested into these few years ago and took them out again this year. The best money spent ever:

http://www.ashfieldsbb.co.nz/womens-nytro-gtx-winter-boots-steel-grey-cane-softly-blue-salomon-snow-boots-sp-19751.html?cPath=272

Heroditas

haminka wrote: »

The only thing I'd say would be recommended is a decent pair of snow boots. The amount of people in wellies and hiking boots I saw those few couple of days was staggering. None of them has proper grip. Hiking boots are designed to have a good grip on rocks and have a hard sole which slips. Wellies are good for wet muck but they won't keep you warm and, again, the sole may slip.
I invested into these few years ago and took them out again this year. The best money spent ever:

http://www.ashfieldsbb.co.nz/womens-nytro-gtx-winter-boots-steel-grey-cane-softly-blue-salomon-snow-boots-sp-19751.html?cPath=272

I bought a pair of the snow grips in 2011 right after the last big event and they've sat in the boot of the car since then.
I finally managed to use them this time around. I honestly had a huge grin on my face as I put them on and declared triumphantly:
"SEE! I told you I'd need them eventually..."

Agreed re the hiking boots and wellies. Absolutely useless.

Wanderer78

Heroditas wrote:

Agreed re the hiking boots and wellies. Absolutely useless.

My 15 year old hiking boots and shoe grips were just fine all week

YFlyer

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Ivan Yates ask same question. He said there was 9000 in the army but only 300 active on a given day during the big snow. Who knows what they actually do most of the time.

Wasn't majority of them on security duty when President George W Bush visited?

4ensic15

irishrover99 wrote: »

Can anyone tell me why their was only 720 army personnel deployed during the the storm. (Correct me if I'm wrong on this number)
Seriously what else are they used for in this country.

They could help with food deliveries and road clearance in the major town and cites,

If Emma hadn't stalled, can you imagine how bad things would have been.

How many full time army do we have in the country?

I'm not slagging them off personally but all I see them do all year is provide escorts for the president, criminals going to court and money going to/ from the mint in the sandyford.

&20 is more than the number of military deployed overseas. It is about as many as were available to go to the border in the 1969 emergency. Most of those out during the snow were on training courses which were interrupted by the snow. The Naval Service is undermanned and can't be expected to bring ships home to deliver food in vehicles it doesn't have. The air corps is undermanned and can't be expected to deliver food in nvehicles it doesn't have. Military bases with guns and ammunition in them need to be guarded. The defence force has a limited number of vehicles. Some have to be kept available to deal with incidents like LIDL. Some troops haven't been able to go to their own homes for days and see that their own famiiies have food. The selfishness of some people is staggering. They expect troops to put themselves at risk hunderds of miles from home so that they can have fresh milk nin their local sho!

Heroditas

Wanderer78 wrote: »

My 15 year old hiking boots and shoe grips were just fine all week

You had grips though.
Guess it also depends on the state of the paths. Compacted snow is lethal if you're wearing wellies!

Wanderer78

Heroditas wrote:

You had grips though.

I'd say they would have been lethal without them, probably would still have tried them though

Discodog

haminka wrote: »

The only thing I'd say would be recommended is a decent pair of snow boots. The amount of people in wellies and hiking boots I saw those few couple of days was staggering. None of them has proper grip. Hiking boots are designed to have a good grip on rocks and have a hard sole which slips. Wellies are good for wet muck but they won't keep you warm and, again, the sole may slip.
I invested into these few years ago and took them out again this year. The best money spent ever:

http://www.ashfieldsbb.co.nz/womens-nytro-gtx-winter-boots-steel-grey-cane-softly-blue-salomon-snow-boots-sp-19751.html?cPath=272

By accident I found a pair of Salomons in TK Max Years ago. The label say rated to -25 so ,as I work outdoors, I bought them. They come out every winter when it's really cold & are a life saver.

Bekina Steplite Wellies are extremely good. Warm, strong & with excellent grip. They are the only boots that grip on wet rock.

Mountainsandh

haminka wrote: »

Snow chains won't help you if you're stuck in a drift.

Yeah, I have snow chains but there wasn't a hope in this instance, because of the drifts. But I have used them in the past for the "normal" snow we get, being a bit up high, and I'll be glad to have them in the boot today when I chance heading out for the main road, just in case there is a spot of bother on the way down.

I think a great job was done by all in this event.
We were well warned, and for the South East here, the coordination and execution of the afters has been spot on. Local counsillors kept us informed throughout on Facebook of the work as it progressed, mapalert text messages did same.
I was lucky to be under no pressure to go anywhere until today, but if anyone out in the sticks had an emergency, provided they had contact with outside, mobile or otherwise, help was swift, as the stories of people having medication delivered, or being taken to hospital by firecrews/locals combined attest.

The emergency press conference yesterday was really helpful and informative, and well timed.

We will support our local businesses to help them make up for lost time, and hopefully there won't be too much harm done.

Of course my ESB didn't go off, so it's easy to stay positive in comfort. I hope people who got cut off got their power back real quick, I think how we all fare in these situations really depends on that nowadays.

alta stare

haminka wrote: »

The only thing I'd say would be recommended is a decent pair of snow boots. The amount of people in wellies and hiking boots I saw those few couple of days was staggering. None of them has proper grip. Hiking boots are designed to have a good grip on rocks and have a hard sole which slips. Wellies are good for wet muck but they won't keep you warm and, again, the sole may slip.
I invested into these few years ago and took them out again this year. The best money spent ever:

http://www.ashfieldsbb.co.nz/womens-nytro-gtx-winter-boots-steel-grey-cane-softly-blue-salomon-snow-boots-sp-19751.html?cPath=272

In all my years of wearing hiking boots iv never slipped in them even during the last few days. Iv hiked across boggy mountains in wet weather, heavy snow you name it and iv not slipped. I do accept a good pair of snow boots would be ideal but they are not worth spendin big money on for our rare snow events. Cheapin out on them is pointless too.

lolo62

alta stare wrote: »

In all my years of wearing hiking boots iv never slipped in them even during the last few days. Iv hiked across boggy mountains in wet weather, heavy snow you name it and iv not slipped. I do accept a good pair of snow boots would be ideal but they are not worth spendin big money on for our rare snow events. Cheapin out on them is pointless too.

My mum gave me a pair of those rubber attachments with spikes on them and they were the business. I just stuck them and left them on myclarks leather boots for the whole event. Only down side is I might as well have been wearing ice skates when I walked on the tiles in my local petrol station! They pop on and off easily though. I'd recommend them to anyone looking for something cheap and cheerful but efficient for future snow events.

An Ri rua

alta stare wrote: »

In all my years of wearing hiking boots iv never slipped in them even during the last few days. Iv hiked across boggy mountains in wet weather, heavy snow you name it and iv not slipped. I do accept a good pair of snow boots would be ideal but they are not worth spendin big money on for our rare snow events. Cheapin out on them is pointless too.

I stuck on a pair of dutch para boots that I bought initially 20+ years ago when I bought my first bike. Indestructible, not as nice as Germans, but pretty much impossible to slip in the last week's conditions.
Perfect for driving too. A bit awkward for driving normally but no slipping on the pedals due to compacted snow undersole.

haminka

_Dara_ wrote: »

Especially as when there is no snow, winter tyres and snow chains really damage roads! You need to be 100% sure the snow is coming to use them. We often can’t be sure of that in Ireland.

Winter tyres don't. Winter tyres aren't snow tyres, they are just softer.

acronym Chilli

_Dara_ wrote: »

Especially as when there is no snow, winter tyres and snow chains really damage roads! You need to be 100% sure the snow is coming to use them. We often can’t be sure of that in Ireland.

Winter tyres are not what you think they are. Clearly you're not the only one misinformed.

They look like normal tyres unless you know what to look for. They are generally not studded affairs. They are normal looking tyres except the rubber compound is optimised for colder weather use and the tread pattern has features that help with winter hazards like snow.

Even without snow, winter tyres are significantly superior to summer tyres once temperatures drop below 7C.

It would make perfect sense in Ireland to switch from Summer tyres and alloys to a set of winter tyres on steel rims from about Halloween to St. Patrick's Day. It would keep your nice alloys in good condition, keep you safer all year, and give best performance and wear.
A high quality all season tyre like Michelin CrossClimates would be another compromise option (that's what I'm using these days).

Even in countries with lots of snow, people dont drive all winter on chains. Studded tyres are in fact banned in Germany (on public roads). Winter tyres are mandatory there.

Info:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_tire

Irish Steve

wakka12 wrote: »

Of course Ireland shouldn't have same regulations and provisions as that country you live in does. But we should have some more toned down versions seeing as snowfall is not so rare here that it never causes disruption , for instance everyone in Ireland should maybe simply own a pair of snow chains in case ,rather than being made drive in snow tyres all winter

Snow chains for all? Not a good idea, for a number of reasons, and I used to carry snow chains in the UK before we moved here, because I needed them at times in some areas, and after 2010 I got snow chains for my vehicle, even though it's 4x4.

This week, I didn't need to fit them, and I have been out and about on some days, in 4WD there was never a lack of grip this week. You wouldn't get snow chains on to the tyres on some of the BMW's and the like that I've seen sliding in all directions over the last couple of days, there's not enough clearance on the wheel arches to get them in, let alone move once they were fitted, the wheel arches and items close to the wheels would be destroyed in seconds.

Too many people here can't change a puncture, let alone fit snow chains, badly fitted snow chains are more dangerous than no chains.

Snow chains are only useful in conditions where there is snow under the wheels, but if they end up on tarmac, they won't last long, and the damage then done when they break up will be significant. They are not a lot of help on packed ice, which is what we end up with most of the time, the snow of the last week was exceptional both in terms of quantity and type, it's very rare we get powder snow here, most of the time, we get wet frontal snow that packs into a block of ice almost immediately, and snow chains on that sort of snow don't help as much, as they can't cut into the ice and provide a grip.

The best way to deal with snow and ice is to pretend there's a wine glass under your right foot, and drive in a way that avoids breaking the glass, and avoid making sudden direction changes. Takes some practise, which most people don't get, once you've mastered the technique, it's surprising where you can get, even with a car that's supposedly not good in snow, try a really old rear wheel drive Ford from the 70's on cross ply tyres, you're in for a shock!

I've seen a number of people doing stupid things with their cars over the last few days, it beggars belief how they got their licence in the first place, but that's probably a subject for another time and a different forum.

actaphobia

Irish Steve wrote: »

Snow chains for all? Not a good idea, for a number of reasons, and I used to carry snow chains in the UK before we moved here, because I needed them at times in some areas, and after 2010 I got snow chains for my vehicle, even though it's 4x4.

This week, I didn't need to fit them, and I have been out and about on some days, in 4WD there was never a lack of grip this week. You wouldn't get snow chains on to the tyres on some of the BMW's and the like that I've seen sliding in all directions over the last couple of days, there's not enough clearance on the wheel arches to get them in, let alone move once they were fitted, the wheel arches and items close to the wheels would be destroyed in seconds.

Too many people here can't change a puncture, let alone fit snow chains, badly fitted snow chains are more dangerous than no chains.

Snow chains are only useful in conditions where there is snow under the wheels, but if they end up on tarmac, they won't last long, and the damage then done when they break up will be significant. They are not a lot of help on packed ice, which is what we end up with most of the time, the snow of the last week was exceptional both in terms of quantity and type, it's very rare we get powder snow here, most of the time, we get wet frontal snow that packs into a block of ice almost immediately, and snow chains on that sort of snow don't help as much, as they can't cut into the ice and provide a grip.

The best way to deal with snow and ice is to pretend there's a wine glass under your right foot, and drive in a way that avoids breaking the glass, and avoid making sudden direction changes. Takes some practise, which most people don't get, once you've mastered the technique, it's surprising where you can get, even with a car that's supposedly not good in snow, try a really old rear wheel drive Ford from the 70's on cross ply tyres, you're in for a shock!

I've seen a number of people doing stupid things with their cars over the last few days, it beggars belief how they got their licence in the first place, but that's probably a subject for another time and a different forum.

Nice patronising post. The reality is that Irish driver training dues not cover snow driving or indeed how to change a puncture. So I guess we should all be driving 1970s Fords.

_Dara_

acronym Chilli wrote: »

Winter tyres are not what you think they are. Clearly you're not the only one misinformed.

They look like normal tyres unless you know what to look for. They are generally not studded affairs. They are normal looking tyres except the rubber compound is optimised for colder weather use and the tread pattern has features that help with winter hazards like snow.

Even without snow, winter tyres are significantly superior to summer tyres once temperatures drop below 7C.

It would make perfect sense in Ireland to switch from Summer tyres and alloys to a set of winter tyres on steel rims from about Halloween to St. Patrick's Day. It would keep your nice alloys in good condition, keep you safer all year, and give best performance and wear.
A high quality all season tyre like Michelin CrossClimates would be another compromise option (that's what I'm using these days).

Even in countries with lots of snow, people dont drive all winter on chains. Studded tyres are in fact banned in Germany (on public roads). Winter tyres are mandatory there.

Info:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_tire

Oh no, I lumped winter tyres in with snow chains. THE HUMANITY!

Rodin

actaphobia wrote: »

Nice patronising post. The reality is that Irish driver training dues not cover snow driving or indeed how to change a puncture. So I guess we should all be driving 1970s Fords.

Or self-educate on how to change a wheel.

MadYaker

acronym Chilli wrote: »

Winter tyres are not what you think they are. Clearly you're not the only one misinformed.

They look like normal tyres unless you know what to look for. They are generally not studded affairs. They are normal looking tyres except the rubber compound is optimised for colder weather use and the tread pattern has features that help with winter hazards like snow.

Even without snow, winter tyres are significantly superior to summer tyres once temperatures drop below 7C.

It would make perfect sense in Ireland to switch from Summer tyres and alloys to a set of winter tyres on steel rims from about Halloween to St. Patrick's Day. It would keep your nice alloys in good condition, keep you safer all year, and give best performance and wear.
A high quality all season tyre like Michelin CrossClimates would be another compromise option (that's what I'm using these days).

Even in countries with lots of snow, people dont drive all winter on chains. Studded tyres are in fact banned in Germany (on public roads). Winter tyres are mandatory there.

Info:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_tire

I wouldn’t be seen dead driving a car with steel wheels. So you’re telling me I’m going to have to buy another set of alloys just for snow tires? No way.

Rodin

MadYaker wrote: »

I wouldn’t be seen dead driving a car with steel wheels. So you’re telling me I’m going to have to buy another set of alloys just for snow tires? No way.

I bought a new set of alloys (smaller than original wheels).
Worked out cheaper than getting a set of winters for the bigger wheels and easier to change.

acronym Chilli

haminka wrote: »

I know that you can hardly expect drivers in Ireland to change to winter tyres in November or October because winter

Why not?
The tyres are better in cold weather, not just in snow. At 4C on a clear night on a country road you've better chances with winter tyres than summer tyres (all things being equal... really crappy quality winter tyres may cause more problems than top quality summer ones). We get plenty of weather between November and March where winter tyres would be better, and once you get snow conditions it makes all the difference between keeping moving or just stopping dead.

I'll make the disclaimer here that I only partly take my own medicine. I have Michelin CrossClimate all season tyres on my own car, so I don't need to change them during the year. However, they are winter-certified, so I could also legitimately drive them all year in Germany, or Austria for example (but not, for example in Finland).
https://www.michelin.ie/tyres/learn-share/buying-guide/ever-heard-about-winter-tyre-regulations
I drive about 30k miles a year, and value the stopping performance in poor conditions. I already this winter met a snowfall (and snow on the road) traveling back to Dublin on N7. It didn't stick long, but I was safer on my tyres than I would have been on summer tyres, and I'd have been safer still if other drivers had winters/all-seasons.

That said, I didn't go out driving in the snow this time as I didn't need to and I was sure I'd meet some muppet on summer tyres, unable to move, and get stuck behind them (or worse, meet someone who was unable to stop and get crashed into). However, I kept the car clear of snow and dug-out, and made sure I was able to move it in case there was an urgency.

and for the sake of three days of snow you can't have a fleet of snow ploughs and diggers etc. sitting somewhere just in case. The machinery needs to be services and maintained and used to be any good. And you just don't get that over here to justify the expense.

I've more sympathy with that argument. There's also the question of keeping staff trained and competent. However, I'd want to know how it's managed in some other parts of the world where snow is more occasional than dependable. e.g. in part of Germany I know (NRW), snow is definitely not a dependable annual big-event, and often when it does come it's a dusting. But now and again they get heavy falls and they definitely don't shut down.
Say Essen:
https://www.worldweatheronline.com/essen-weather-averages/nordrhein-westfalen/de.aspx
Seem to have a few snow-days each year, but with depths typically of 2-4cm. 2010 they got blasted of course, with 36 days and 25cm.
Muenster would be another:
https://www.worldweatheronline.com/muenster-weather-averages/nordrhein-westfalen/de.aspx

Worth-it/waste-of-money is a valid question, to be looked at with Cost Benefit Analysis. If we don't need the ploughs, then it's a simple bonus for Ireland, as I don't see that we're paying for protection against some other sort of disaster that the Germans don't have to.

Rodin

Originally Posted by haminka View Post
I know that you can hardly expect drivers in Ireland to change to winter tyres in November or October because winter

Why not?
Saves the tread on the summer tyres too.

acronym Chilli

MadYaker wrote: »

I wouldn’t be seen dead driving a car with steel wheels. So you’re telling me I’m going to have to buy another set of alloys just for snow tires? No way.

I'm not your mother :rolleyes:, I won't give out to you when you wear high-heels on the ice either because you won't be seen dead in sensible shoes

Happily, if you read the post properly there's another solution. Tip:
Even though I tend to approach driving from the point of view of performance and results rather than cosmetics, it's the cop-out route I sheepishly admit to taking myself.

_Dara_

acronym Chilli wrote: »

Why not?
The tyres are better in cold weather, not just in snow. At 4C on a clear night on a country road you've better chances with winter tyres than summer tyres (all things being equal... really crappy quality winter tyres may cause more problems than top quality summer ones). We get plenty of weather between November and March where winter tyres would be better, and once you get snow conditions it makes all the difference between keeping moving or just stopping dead.

I'll make the disclaimer here that I only partly take my own medicine. I have Michelin CrossClimate all season tyres on my own car, so I don't need to change them during the year. However, they are winter-certified, so I could also legitimately drive them all year in Germany, or Austria for example (but not, for example in Finland).
https://www.michelin.ie/tyres/learn-share/buying-guide/ever-heard-about-winter-tyre-regulations
I drive about 30k miles a year, and value the stopping performance in poor conditions. I already this winter met a snowfall (and snow on the road) traveling back to Dublin on N7. It didn't stick long, but I was safer on my tyres than I would have been on summer tyres, and I'd have been safer still if other drivers had winters/all-seasons.

That said, I didn't go out driving in the snow this time as I didn't need to and I was sure I'd meet some muppet on summer tyres, unable to move, and get stuck behind them (or worse, meet someone who was unable to stop and get crashed into). However, I kept the car clear of snow and dug-out, and made sure I was able to move it in case there was an urgency.

I've more sympathy with that argument. There's also the question of keeping staff trained and competent. However, I'd want to know how it's managed in some other parts of the world where snow is more occasional than dependable. e.g. in part of Germany I know (NRW), snow is definitely not a dependable annual big-event, and often when it does come it's a dusting. But now and again they get heavy falls and they definitely don't shut down.
Say Essen:
https://www.worldweatheronline.com/essen-weather-averages/nordrhein-westfalen/de.aspx
Seem to have a few snow-days each year, but with depths typically of 2-4cm. 2010 they got blasted of course, with 36 days and 25cm.
Muenster would be another:
https://www.worldweatheronline.com/muenster-weather-averages/nordrhein-westfalen/de.aspx

Worth-it/waste-of-money is a valid question, to be looked at with Cost Benefit Analysis. If we don't need the ploughs, then it's a simple bonus for Ireland, as I don't see that we're paying for protection against some other sort of disaster that the Germans don't have to.

The places in Germany that only get occasional snow would benefit from the equipment and training in place for the snowier parts.

acronym Chilli

_Dara_ wrote: »

Oh no, I lumped winter tyres in with snow chains. THE HUMANITY!

Don't worry about it! it's just that there's a lot of ignorance on the topic in the Irish market, and as a result people using poorer products than they should.

That said, the market is maturing. The first time I bough four season tyres (2012, Hankooks), they were a curiosity. Next tyres I bought were Michelin CrossClimates just after they came out and again a little unusual. However, those have been a big success for Michelin and with most recent set in September they were definitely a (relatively) mainstream option among better informed drivers.

Rodin

acronym Chilli wrote: »

Don't worry about it! it's just that there's a lot of ignorance on the topic in the Irish market, and as a result people using poorer products than they should.

That said, the market is maturing. The first time I bough four season tyres (2012, Hankooks), they were a curiosity. Next tyres I bought were Michelin CrossClimates just after they came out and again a little unusual. However, those have been a big success for Michelin and with most recent set in September they were definitely a (relatively) mainstream option among better informed drivers.

Need to make the CrossClimate + in bigger sizes

Calibos

Rodin wrote: »

Need to make the CrossClimate + in bigger sizes

I've had the intention of fitting these for years when my current Pirelli Summer 245/40 R18's wore out. They needed replacing finally this Summer but as soon as I started researching I found the Crossclimates were not available in the size I needed. A bit more research might have told me that the nearest size might have fit but I said to myself, "Sure feck it, when are we going to get major snow again like 2010 anyway". I ended up buying Pirelli Summers again.

Absolutely kicking myself

acronym Chilli

_Dara_ wrote: »

The places in Germany that only get occasional snow would benefit from the equipment and training in place for the snowier parts.

I was thinking about that too, but it didn't stack up for me, at least not fully.

It definitely helps a lot from the training/competence point of view. If you have civil defence crews or whatever in a mild part of the country who never get much snow experience, you can rotate them down to the mountains periodically for training and on-the-job experience and maintain your skill base. The snowy regions are so dependably snowy that you can pretty much build a schedule for this.

The plant and equipment piece is trickier as although Germany is a big country, it's not huge, so generally when there's a major snow event, large parts are affected simultaneously. It won't be so common that Muenster is snowed in while typical snow-regions are not. So when the less snowy part of country needs equipment, the snowier regions need it too and cannot release it.

Even with that proviso, there could still be a benefit that rather than have snow ploughs bought and sit idle for years, you'd buy them in all regions, and rotate the ploughs (like staff) from warm areas to cold areas and back to keep them all "active" and in use. It wouldn't necessarily save you on capacity, but would help prevent the entirely possible but ridiculous situation where you buy gear, keep it years, and then when you need it it fails to work.

Charles Babbage

acronym Chilli wrote: »

That said, the market is maturing. The first time I bough four season tyres (2012, Hankooks), they were a curiosity. Next tyres I bought were Michelin CrossClimates just after they came out and again a little unusual. However, those have been a big success for Michelin and with most recent set in September they were definitely a (relatively) mainstream option among better informed drivers.

Absolutely. In Ireland we get a lot of cool wet roads and such tyres perform well in such conditions, decent in snow and obviously decent in the dry as well.

Ireland has a smaller range of weather than most places, so swapping tyres summer and winter is possibly not warranted. But then the tyres fitted should reflect that, we should not be fitting "summer" tyres or the same ones fitted in Sicily. New cars should come with all season tyres in these islands and I am not sure why they do not (especially as January is the busiest month for car sales))

Pwindedd

Calibos wrote: »

Rodin wrote: »

Need to make the CrossClimate + in bigger sizes

I've had the intention of fitting these for years when my current Pirelli Summer 245/40 R18's wore out. They needed replacing finally this Summer but as soon as I started researching I found the Crossclimates were not available in the size I needed. A bit more research might have told me that the nearest size might have fit but I said to myself, "Sure feck it, when are we going to get major snow again like 2010 anyway". I ended up buying Pirelli Summers again.

Absolutely kicking myself

Would these all climate tyres be a good investment for someone with a very low annual mileage but reliant on car in all weathers. Thinking that if I did buy some they'd last me a good while (less than 3k miles a year at present)

bucketybuck

actaphobia wrote: »

Nice patronising post. The reality is that Irish driver training dues not cover snow driving or indeed how to change a puncture. So I guess we should all be driving 1970s Fords.

Do you think that people who can change a tyre or drive on a bit of snow all paid for private lessons or something?

actaphobia

bucketybuck wrote: »

Do you think that people who can change a tyre or drive on a bit of snow all paid for private lessons or something?

No, I guess they all looked on Youtube while doing so!

We don't all drive Land Rovers.

sdanseo

Just went for a drive round the M50, more to do a reccy for work tomorrow than a pointless jaunt, but today was the first day you could be confident the BMW wouldn't run into trouble even on main roads.

Still one or two VMS on the M1 saying "DO NOT TRAVEL" which is a little overkill at this stage, M50 is absolutely perfect as are almost all main routes in Dublin. Also still some 4 or 5 foot drifts of ploughed snow which won't be going anywehre fast even near the coast.

Turned at Sandyford having heard of trouble on or near the M11 but Three Rock / Ticknock still looks like a wonderland. Wicklow will be under a lot of snow for at least another week or more.

bucketybuck

actaphobia wrote: »

No, I guess they all looked on Youtube while doing so!

We don't all drive Land Rovers.

So you think people that can change a tyre or drive on a bit of snow all drive landrovers? Because thats just silly.

Not as silly as thinking people need Youtube to figure out how to swap a tyre, but silly all the same.

aidanodr

sdanseo wrote: »

Just went for a drive round the M50, more to do a reccy for work tomorrow than a pointless jaunt, but today was the first day you could be confident the BMW wouldn't run into trouble even on main roads.

Still one or two VMS on the M1 saying "DO NOT TRAVEL" which is a little overkill at this stage, M50 is absolutely perfect as are almost all main routes in Dublin. Also still some 4 or 5 foot drifts of ploughed snow which won't be going anywehre fast even near the coast.

Turned at Sandyford having heard of trouble on or near the M11 but Three Rock / Ticknock still looks like a wonderland. Wicklow will be under a lot of snow for at least another week or more.

Ah yes .. REAR WHEEL DRIVE and snow/ice do not mix .. at all .. amazing also the number of people who drive cars like BMWs and are not even aware they are RWD.

I feel your pain ... i drive a Mazda MX5 08 roadster, same issue, RWD. I lost a previous one i had, an 03 back in the 2009/2010 snow/ice event. An otherwise dry boreen near me, traveling at 40kmph in the evening around 6pm, DARK at the time ( an alt route as the usual main route via south link in Cork was backed up ) .. One minute i was driving forward, next I was looking at a ditch and a pole wedged in the bonnet.

Otherwise dry road except for a narrow patch of water runnoff from a field flowing across the road had frozen. Rear wheels hit it .. I didnt even know it, car went at right angle into ditch right where a telephone pole was. Hit that but lucky it didnt fall on me.

Ever since I park it during rare events like last week and now, not worth it

sdanseo

aidanodr wrote: »

Ah yes .. REAR WHEEL DRIVE and snow/ice do not mix .. at all

I feel your pain ... i drive a Mazda MX5 08 roadster, same issue, RWD. I lost a previous one i had, an 03 back in the 2009/2010 snow/ice event. An otherwise dry boreen near me, traveling at 40kmph in the evening around 6pm, DARK at the time ( an alt route as the usual main route via south link in Cork was backed up ) .. One minute i was driving forward, next I was looking at a ditch and a pole wedged in the bonnet.

Otherwise dry road except for a narrow patch of water runnoff from a field flowing across the road had frozen. Rear wheels hit it .. I didnt even know it, car went at right angle into ditch right where a telephone pole was. Hit that but lucky it didnt fall on me.

Ever since I park it during rare events like last week and now, not worth it

After this week the next car will be either xDrive if its another Beamer or maybe a Land Rover or other 4x4. Haven't been further than the local shop on foot since Tuesday until today. Don't think I could cope with that again, I still live at home since rent is so apallingly expensive, and let's just say it's been torture!

What's been really great this week is seeing all the stories of the community spirit and people helping each others. Farmers especially, they seem to have utilised every piece of machinery in the country to clear lanes.

Even here, pretty much everyone got out and cleared the paths, even those like us with not really the right type of shovels or equipment. Making do.

aidanodr

sdanseo wrote: »

After this week the next car will be either xDrive if its another Beamer or maybe a Land Rover or other 4x4. Haven't been further than the local shop on foot since Tuesday until today. Don't think I could cope with that again, I still live at home since rent is so apallingly expensive, and let's just say it's been torture!

What's been really great this week is seeing all the stories of the community spirit and people helping each others. Farmers especially, they seem to have utilised every piece of machinery in the country to clear lanes.

Even here, pretty much everyone got out and cleared the paths, even those like us with not really the right type of shovels or equipment. Making do.

TBH i have had that knee jerk reaction too in times like this

BUT this ice/snow type event is rare still and 99% of the year I can drive away the MX with no difficulty .. so its a decision very much toward keeping the MX. The driving pleasure it provides far outweights that rare time when you just leave it parked in ice/snow.

Also FWD cars were having difficulty in this one and 4x4.

Rodin

sdanseo wrote: »

After this week the next car will be either xDrive if its another Beamer or maybe a Land Rover or other 4x4. Haven't been further than the local shop on foot since Tuesday until today. Don't think I could cope with that again, I still live at home since rent is so apallingly expensive, and let's just say it's been torture!

What's been really great this week is seeing all the stories of the community spirit and people helping each others. Farmers especially, they seem to have utilised every piece of machinery in the country to clear lanes.

Even here, pretty much everyone got out and cleared the paths, even those like us with not really the right type of shovels or equipment. Making do.

Problem is most other vehicles in front of you won't be 4x4 or have winter tyres.
Only takes one idiot to block a road.

An Ri rua

Rodin wrote:

Problem is most other vehicles in front of you won't be 4x4 or have winter tyres. Only takes one idiot to block a road.

Biggest problem I've found, with winter tyres, is that you can crack along and you get muppets keeping pace!! But you can stop and they cannot !!

Irish Steve

RWD. FWD, yes it makes a difference, but not that much. RWD needs some sensible weight in the boot/rear to help hold it down during snow, we used to have a Talbot Sunbeam a long time ago, and in icy conditions without some weight in the back, it was very easy to have the rear wheels going down the road first. 2 bags of sand or similar made the difference, but the real answer is to change driving style.