Ireland vs Wales 24th Feb 2:15

The Rape of Lucretia

Larmour may well make quick progress. But truly on his play as of today, there is no way he should be in a 23 for a serious Ireland game. He is not playing well. He is playing so so, but showing loads of potential rather than actual high performance. Even benching him for Scotland or England would be a terrible mistake. Joe wont make it.
That isnt to say that he mightnt be a starter 12 months from now. His time will come. But it is not today. Exciting and all as he is, he needs to adapt to the reality that despite the rise in pitch in the crowd cheer, it isnt necessarily the best choice to try and score a wonder try every time you get your hands on the ball.

prawnsambo

Kenzie Harsh Volleyball wrote: »

Or they can pass the ball.

Deep. For them to pass, other players have to retreat as they come forward. Enough have to retreat for there to be options that question the defence. New Zealand now have multiple runners going back to give those options, but we're not quite at those levels yet. I'd like to see our forwards pass the ball a bit more first.

georgewickstaff

Hands up here who has played international rugby? None of you ****wits who won't even post on a proper Rugby forum anyway I'd wager!

Jack Kanoff

georgewickstaff wrote: »

Hands up here who has played international rugby? None of you ****wits who won't even post on a proper Rugby forum anyway I'd wager!

Proper rugby forum? Do please tell us which one.

MJohnston

georgewickstaff wrote: »

Hands up here who has played international rugby? None of you ****wits who won't even post on a proper Rugby forum anyway I'd wager!

"proper rugby forum" - lad, I doubt there's a single international rugby player on any forum, let alone one that describes itself as "proper".

flutered

a lot has been written about ireland shipping tries, should not the defense coaches be shouldering some/most of the blame, not the players, this has been a problem sinse the autumn internationals

prawnsambo

MJohnston

flutered wrote: »

a lot has been written about ireland shipping tries, should not the defense coaches be shouldering some/most of the blame, not the players, this has been a problem sinse the autumn internationals

We're frustratingly inconsistent in our defence, I honestly don't know that we've improved much since 2015.

prawnsambo

MJohnston wrote: »

We're frustratingly inconsistent in our defence, I honestly don't know that we've improved much since 2015.

They pretty much always come down to individual errors though. Which can often happen with personnel changes. Or just brainfarts. If someone makes a mistake, it usually takes an exceptional effort from someone else to rescue the situation. Often though, it just puts more pressure on the team and then there's a bad decision and a score is conceded.

.ak

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Instead of running into the first opponent he sees?

Well if you go backwards and your team have to run behind you what's the point?

I love Larmour's footwork, but sometimes I wish he would just go into contact at pace because teams are sussing him out.

SuprSi

Former Former wrote: »

Watching the highlights on TV3, Leavy's try really should have been disallowed for Best's interference.

I couldn't understand this at the time. The Wales lads were shouting, the replay happened, I thought Sexton was taking the conversion quickly to avoid any chance of a video replay being used but the ref, nor the video assistant seemed bothered.

Burkie1203

SuprSi wrote: »

I couldn't understand this at the time. The Wales lads were shouting, the replay happened, I thought Sexton was taking the conversion quickly to avoid any chance of a video replay being used but the ref, nor the video assistant seemed bothered.

Mike Phillips. Karma.

.ak

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Instead of running into the first opponent he sees?

Kenzie Harsh Volleyball wrote: »

Or they can pass the ball.

.... aaaand this is what I'm talking about when I say confirmation bias.

These are Rob's stats from the game:

IRE| Pass| Runs| Meters Made| Clean Breaks| Defenders Beaten| Offloads
R Kearney FB |2 |10 |69| 2| 3| 1|

But according to some he only runs into players and never passes.

Listen, everyone's entitled to their opinion, I just wish some people would take a step back and realize their opinion is actually colouring their views.

Rob Kearney had a decent game yesterday. Was he great? Not really. Was he awful? Nope. He was decent. He attacked well, positioned well, offered himself as a good runner, passed when required and offloaded when needed, and his kicking was pretty tidy too bar the DG attempt. He didn't set the world on fire, fair enough, but he performed well in a tight test match.

My issue is people straight after a win asking for him to be dropped from the team. Every. Bloody. Week. It's getting really boring now.

So he passed twice? Yeah ok, that's me told.

.ak

georgewickstaff wrote: »

Hands up here who has played international rugby? None of you ****wits who won't even post on a proper Rugby forum anyway I'd wager!

No need to reply this. Poster won't be replying, ever.

.ak

Kenzie Harsh Volleyball wrote: »

So he passed twice? Yeah ok, that's me told.

Well yeah, it is. That's the point. :pac:

Faugheen

ak wrote: »

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Instead of running into the first opponent he sees?

Kenzie Harsh Volleyball wrote: »

Or they can pass the ball.

.... aaaand this is what I'm talking about when I say confirmation bias.

These are Rob's stats from the game:

IRE| Pass| Runs| Meters Made| Clean Breaks| Defenders Beaten| Offloads
R Kearney FB |2 |10 |69| 2| 3| 1|

But according to some he only runs into players and never passes.

Listen, everyone's entitled to their opinion, I just wish some people would take a step back and realize their opinion is actually colouring their views.

Rob Kearney had a decent game yesterday. Was he great? Not really. Was he awful? Nope. He was decent. He attacked well, positioned well, offered himself as a good runner, passed when required and offloaded when needed, and his kicking was pretty tidy too bar the DG attempt. He didn't set the world on fire, fair enough, but he performed well in a tight test match.

My issue is people straight after a win asking for him to be dropped from the team. Every. Bloody. Week. It's getting really boring now.

====

Last two paragraphs seal it for me.

There's almost as if we should have a full-back playing like Stuart Hogg. Hogg is a once in a generation full-back and at the top of his game is out of this world. When Kearney doesn't live up to that level he's finished/crap/needs to go or whatever.

Someone (I think it was yourself ak) summed it up perfectly, people are so quick to call him to be dropped just like Heaslip, but every coach keeps picking him. If RK was seriously on the wane then it wouldn't happen.

I said yesterday that he was grand. It's ok to pick holes at certain aspects of a performance (which people have, rightfully) but at least show some balance in what he did well.

errlloyd

Buer wrote: »

Ringrose might well be an option for the 23 jersey if Carbery can cover 15.

For me this is the most likely. Or even Stockdale covering 15. Ringrose had some great games on the wing early in his career.

.ak

.ak wrote: »

Well yeah, it is. That's the point. :pac:

You've left a few bits out of your little summary above.

molloyjh

I actually can’t believe the Kearney crap. He very clearly played a big part in 2 of our tries. Put Earls away down the wing in the build up to the Leavy try and helped drive Williams (?) into touch to gain us a line out in the Welsh 22 ahead of the Healy try. If he hadn’t been there Earls wouldn’t have gotten the ball in touch by himself.

Rob made 2 clean breaks and beat 3 defenders. Only Stockdale made more clean breaks than him (he made 3) and only Aki beat more defenders (he beat 4). He ran some good support lines and overall had a good game. There was feck all in it to demand he get dropped. Anyone thinking there was is clearly not watching the game properly. If they were they’d see the really obvious positive impacts he had. Because it’s not like they were “unseen work” type stuff. They were plainly obviois for all to see.

thomond2006

Former Former wrote: »

Leaving Kearney aside, Larmour isn't quite there yet but given that McFadden didn't set the world on fire yesterday, I wouldn't mind seeing Larmour at 23 against Scotland (assuming Conway is still out).

I'm not sure if Conway is really international starter material tbh.

Conway had an excellent Autumn, poor opposition aside. I think he's definitely international material and based on Earls' improvements at 29/30 years old Conway has plenty time to grow into an international starter.

Synode

Conway has been playing very well for Munster this season (Ireland too in Autumn). He was very unlucky to get injured when he did and would have been a dead cert for at least the 23 jersey

Deusexmachina

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Larmour may well make quick progress. But truly on his play as of today, there is no way he should be in a 23 for a serious Ireland game. He is not playing well. He is playing so so, but showing loads of potential rather than actual high performance. Even benching him for Scotland or England would be a terrible mistake. Joe wont make it.
That isnt to say that he mightnt be a starter 12 months from now. His time will come. But it is not today. Exciting and all as he is, he needs to adapt to the reality that despite the rise in pitch in the crowd cheer, it isnt necessarily the best choice to try and score a wonder try every time you get your hands on the ball.

Similar things said about Sexton, O Gara, Murray, Henderson, Furlong ...until injuries or loss of form of the incumbent gave them their opportunity - then suddenly they became undroppable.

Larmour has something unique to offer. Great speed, vision, quick thinking, solid defense, good under high ball. He’s potentially brilliant.
Kearney is okay. Great catcher. Poor defender. Utterly predictable.

We need more cutting edge. Wales could easily have beaten us yesterday with one third of the possession we had. They always looked threatening when they attacked. We looked plodding. Our forwards won us the game through relentless muscularity.
England will soak that up.

Deusexmachina

molloyjh wrote: »

I actually can’t believe the Kearney crap. He very clearly played a big part in 2 of our tries. Put Earls away down the wing in the build up to the Leavy try and helped drive Williams (?) into touch to gain us a line out in the Welsh 22 ahead of the Healy try. If he hadn’t been there Earls wouldn’t have gotten the ball in touch by himself.

Rob made 2 clean breaks and beat 3 defenders. Only Stockdale made more clean breaks than him (he made 3) and only Aki beat more defenders (he beat 4). He ran some good support lines and overall had a good game. There was feck all in it to demand he get dropped. Anyone thinking there was is clearly not watching the game properly. If they were they’d see the really obvious positive impacts he had. Because it’s not like they were “unseen work” type stuff. They were plainly obviois for all to see.

‘Rob’ was okay. That’s all.

molloyjh

Murray jumped ahead of players without injury. Furlong pushes out Ross when Ross was fit. Henderson and Ryan both seem to be moving ahead of a fit Toner. I know people want to b!tch and moan, but you could at least make a vague effort to get your facts straight before you do.

As I said, I Iove the 6Ns. I hate the internet during the 6Ns. People seem more than happy to live in their own little bubble that filters out all the relevant but inconvenient stuff so their precious little opinions are protected.

Deusexmachina

molloyjh wrote: »

Murray jumped ahead of players without injury. Furlong pushes out Ross when Ross was fit. Henderson and Ryan both seem to be moving ahead of a fit Toner. I know people want to b!tch and moan, but you could at least make a vague effort to get your facts straight before you do.

As I said, I Iove the 6Ns. I hate the internet during the 6Ns. People seem more than happy to live in their own little bubble that filters out all the relevant but inconvenient stuff so their previous little opinions are protected.

‘Bitch and moan’ ‘didn’t watch the match properly’ ‘get you facts straight’ ‘own little bubble’

Got any mates?

Bridge93

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Similar things said about Sexton, O Gara, Murray, Henderson, Furlong ...until injuries or loss of form of the incumbent gave them their opportunity - then suddenly they became undroppable.

Larmour has something unique to offer. Great speed, vision, quick thinking, solid defense, good under high ball. He’s potentially brilliant.
Kearney is okay. Great catcher. Poor defender. Utterly predictable.

We need more cutting edge. Wales could easily have beaten us yesterday with one third of the possession we had. They always looked threatening when they attacked. We looked plodding. Our forwards won us the game through relentless muscularity.
England will soak that up.

The first paragraph is completely incorrect. The second is full of unsubstantiated statements. The third is true but for different reasons than that given. Had Wales beaten us it would've been our defence that cost us not our cutting edge. We scored 37 points.

Faugheen

Deusexmachina wrote: »

molloyjh wrote: »

Murray jumped ahead of players without injury. Furlong pushes out Ross when Ross was fit. Henderson and Ryan both seem to be moving ahead of a fit Toner. I know people want to b!tch and moan, but you could at least make a vague effort to get your facts straight before you do.

As I said, I Iove the 6Ns. I hate the internet during the 6Ns. People seem more than happy to live in their own little bubble that filters out all the relevant but inconvenient stuff so their previous little opinions are protected.

‘Bitch and moan’ ‘didn’t watch the match properly’ ‘get you facts straight’ ‘own little bubble’

Got any mates?

Anything about the stats posted about RK which show he wasn't as bad as people are suggesting or is it just going to be nitpicking at other people's posts to deflect attention away from the points made?

molloyjh

Deusexmachina wrote: »

‘Bitch and moan’ ‘didn’t watch the match properly’ ‘get you facts straight’ ‘own little bubble’

Got any mates?

Plenty thanks. Fancy addressing any of the points above or are you just too upset someone pointed out that your argument is based on things that aren’t true?

Deusexmachina

molloyjh wrote: »

Plenty thanks. Fancy addressing any of the points above or are you just too upset someone pointed out that your argument is based on things that aren’t true?

How about a discussion without sneering derision of my opinion?

Deusexmachina

Faugheen wrote: »

Anything about the stats posted about RK which show he wasn't as bad as people are suggesting or is it just going to be nitpicking at other people's posts to deflect attention away from the points made?

I said he played ok. What’s your problem with that? He played ok.

The Rape of Lucretia

Deusexmachina wrote: »

We need more cutting edge. Wales could easily have beaten us yesterday with one third of the possession we had.

Cutting edge ? We dont need it. Sexton off form from the tee, and defensive system failings were all that were imperfect yesterday. Correct for Jonny kicking 5 more, us not scoring the second try from Stocks, and not conceding two tries, the score would have been 35-13 or so. Perfectly reflective of the overall game. No lack of cutting edge there.

molloyjh

Deusexmachina wrote: »

How about a discussion without sneering derision of my opinion?

Um...

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Jaysus, he's getting worse by the post...

So yeah, I think when you start treating people like this you should probably expect not to get the royal treatment yourself.

The Rape of Lucretia

Deusexmachina wrote: »

I said he played ok. What’s your problem with that? He played ok.

Oh, very well, then.
Easily persuaded, is he not?
But he says he played so well!
Then he has perjured himself most profoundly.
No, he said "played quite well."
Oh, "quite well" is not "very well." I'm satisfied.

Deusexmachina

molloyjh wrote: »

Um...



So yeah, I think when you start treating people like this you should probably expect not to get the royal treatment yourself.

Nah, you are like that constantly. Those mates must have great patience (is one of them ‘Rob’?)

Deusexmachina

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Oh, very well, then.
Easily persuaded, is he not?
But he says he played so well!
Then he has perjured himself most profoundly.
No, he said "played quite well."
Oh, "quite well" is not "very well." I'm satisfied.

What the actual ****?

.ak

I'll remind you all that everyone's opinion is welcome here, so long as they back it up. If you can't back it up then don't bother. But certainly don't resort to attacking other posters because you don't like their argument.

That goes for everyone.

whatawaster

Looking back at the game, my favourite moment was definitely Dan Biggar calling a mark near the 10 metre line

.ak

whatawaster wrote: »

Looking back at the game, my favourite moment was definitely Dan Biggar calling a mark near the 10 metre line

Totally, we all had a good ol' laugh at that in the West Stand. Except for the poor Welsh lad beside us.

Altho looking back at it I think he was actually trying to have a moan about being tackled in the air, but it looks funny.

lalababa

.ak wrote: »

.... aaaand this is what I'm talking about when I say confirmation bias.

These are Rob's stats from the game:

IRE| Pass| Runs| Meters Made| Clean Breaks| Defenders Beaten| Offloads
R Kearney FB |2 |10 |69| 2| 3| 1|

But according to some he only runs into players and never passes.

Listen, everyone's entitled to their opinion, I just wish some people would take a step back and realize their opinion is actually colouring their views.

Rob Kearney had a decent game yesterday. Was he great? Not really. Was he awful? Nope. He was decent. He attacked well, positioned well, offered himself as a good runner, passed when required and offloaded when needed, and his kicking was pretty tidy too bar the DG attempt. He didn't set the world on fire, fair enough, but he performed well in a tight test match.

My issue is people straight after a win asking for him to be dropped from the team. Every. Bloody. Week. It's getting really boring now.

RK is very good at alot of things, he always had a problem however getting isolated and not keeping his feet until help arrived. Countless times he has covered ground in backfield did a good/ great catch made some yards only to get penalized for holding on. This is what we expect from him, but now he is getting regularly caught out on the wing, either getting sucked in or burnt on the outside. Is there someone better ? Are they better but lack experience? I can't answer that . But if a gun was put to my head I'd say probably.

Bridge93

From what I've seen online even the Welsh are losing patience with Biggars constant moaning. Would be great if there was a bit of The Boy Who Cried Wolf about the Leavy try. Probably shouldn't have been given and biggar was protesting at the time

lalababa

lalababa wrote: »

RK is very good at alot of things, he always had a problem however getting isolated and not keeping his feet until help arrived. Countless times he has covered ground in backfield did a good/ great catch made some yards only to get penalized for holding on. This is what we expect from him, but now he is getting regularly caught out on the wing, either getting sucked in or burnt on the outside. Is there someone better ? Are they better but lack experience? I can't answer that . But if a gun was put to my head I'd say probably.

PS when you catch the ball in the backfield you have alot of green in front of you.

Former Former

thomond2006 wrote: »

Conway had an excellent Autumn, poor opposition aside. I think he's definitely international material and based on Earls' improvements at 29/30 years old Conway has plenty time to grow into an international starter.

Earls is 30, but he made his debut at 21 and was a regular test starter at 22. I like Conway but he is 26, turns 27 in the summer and I'm struggling to think of anyone (in the backs anyway) who's bloomed that late in life and become a first choice pick for Ireland.

Conway might become an international starter but the one thing he does not have is time, he needs to get motoring.

.ak

Watching the game again, how did nobody notice the forward pass for Shingler's try? We were all calling for it in the stands but no pundit or player seemed to call it?

#conspiracy #jetfuelcantmeltsteelbeams #isthisasimulation

corny

whatawaster wrote: »

Looking back at the game, my favourite moment was definitely Dan Biggar calling a mark near the 10 metre line

He was complaining he was tackled in the air wasn't he? It was marginal but he might have had a case.

Burkie1203

lalababa wrote: »

PS when you catch the ball in the backfield you have alot of green in front of you.

Kearney retrieved very little in the backfield. Ireland had 70% possession. Wales kicked very little ball away.

guapos

georgewickstaff wrote: »

Hands up here who has played international rugby? None of you ****wits who won't even post on a proper Rugby forum anyway I'd wager!

Which 15 posters should we select to represent Boards.ie against the Proper forum?

molloyjh

Burkie1203 wrote: »

lalababa wrote: »

PS when you catch the ball in the backfield you have alot of green in front of you.

Kearney retrieved very little in the backfield. Ireland had 70% possession. Wales kicked very little ball away.

Also, Robs ability to present clean ball back after taking contact is one of his strengths. It’s why he’s asked to do that stuff in the first place. If he was getting regularly turned over he’d be told to stop doing it and if he didn’t he’d be dropped.

EDIT: Rob has conceded 2 turnovers so far in the 6Ns. For context, Earls turned over ball 3 times against Wales alone and a total of 5 times in the 6Ns so far. Stockdale is on 8 turnovers conceded.

sydthebeat

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Kearney, Hogg, Brown, Spedding, Halfpenny - I reckon Kearney is 4th best on that list

The funniest thing about this post is that, apart from its obvious subjectivity from you..... Kearney was patently the second best this weekend of those named. Hogg was good, if sometimes suicidal in play. Brown was woeful, halfpenny was poor in both attacking and defending, and spedding, well he was benching in Clermont-Ferrands home loss against oyonnax....

lawred2

corny wrote: »

He was complaining he was tackled in the air wasn't he? It was marginal but he might have had a case.

definitely had a case

but he's still a moany sod though