Daily rate for a painter

dok_golf

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It's called market research, I think. S/he is busy, but has lost some tenders unexpectedly, so is wanting to check what the general public expect.

Thank you. That's exactly what I was doing.

pualbyrne

last year i paid 150 a day cash

dok_golf

biko wrote: »

I'm a bit confused, I though initially you wanted to employ a painter and were asking what to pay them?
Now it seems you are an unregistered painter asking what to charge people?

Am I right so far?

Also, don't know what you mean regards"unregistered"?? I'm registered for tax but not registered for vat. There is aworld of difference between being unregistered for both!!!

dok_golf

pualbyrne wrote: »

last year i paid 150 a day cash

Jaysus. I'm not even charging that with an invoice!

eurokev

dok_golf wrote:

Jaysus. I'm not even charging that with an invoice!

What part of the country are you in though. In my opinion it has a massive bearing

the_pen_turner

there is no way a one man band that is fully insured and tax compliant can work for anything less than 150 a day. 150 a day is barely giving you minimum wage and keeping the lights on. it doesn't give you any holidays, sick days, days off, money for tools or profit.

the_galway_fry

i too used to be a painter and 5 to 6 days for that ammount of work is ridiculous
you dont say what the bannister and spindling details are but even at the very worst you should be doing that in half that time, at the very most .
anyone ever asked me to work day rates and i charged minimum 200 per day most likely higher
work off the price better for everyone involved otherwise they can take the piss

Who says competition is a bad thing

the_pen_turner

Deleted User wrote: »

Who says competition is a bad thing

competition is good but undercutting each other and racing to the bottom is good for no one . especially the customer

fergiesfolly

the_pen_turner wrote: »

competition is good but undercutting each other and racing to the bottom is good for no one . especially the customer

How exactly is it bad for the customer?
If I'm supplying the paint and the painter the labour, surely it's in the customers interest to get the best price, as long as the standard of work is acceptable.

the_pen_turner

fergiesfolly wrote: »

How exactly is it bad for the customer?
If I'm supplying the paint and the painter the labour, surely it's in the customers interest to get the best price, as long as the standard of work is acceptable.

if I'm normally pricing at 200 but have to lower to 150 to get the job then the only thing that can change is quality .

dok_golf

eurokev wrote: »

What part of the country are you in though. In my opinion it has a massive bearing

Galway city and surrounds

dok_golf

the_pen_turner wrote: »

there is no way a one man band that is fully insured and tax compliant can work for anything less than 150 a day. 150 a day is barely giving you minimum wage and keeping the lights on. it doesn't give you any holidays, sick days, days off, money for tools or profit.

Yep, I'm very close to that amount in fairness

dok_golf

the_galway_fry wrote: »

i too used to be a painter and 5 to 6 days for that ammount of work is ridiculous
you dont say what the bannister and spindling details are but even at the very worst you should be doing that in half that time, at the very most .
anyone ever asked me to work day rates and i charged minimum 200 per day most likely higher
work off the price better for everyone involved otherwise they can take the piss

You are much faster than me then. The 3 man crew took 2 days to do it.

the_pen_turner

dok_golf wrote: »

Yep, I'm very close to that amount in fairness

have you allowed for holidays, sick days, days doing paperwork , days servicing and doe ing the van.

I worked mine out at 187 a day +vat and that is before profit. and I'm a one man show with no major over the top expenses

that's only to give me minimum wage and normal days off like a normal job

dok_golf

The thing is I don't want to be registered for Vat. It incurs more expense,more work and more worry imo. I'm happy charging 700 a week which keeps me below the threshold.

mickdw

dok_golf wrote: »

The thing is I don't want to be registered for Vat. It incurs more expense,more work and more worry imo. I'm happy charging 700 a week which keeps me below the threshold.

Yes vat will instantly make you uncompetitive when working for private customers.
I'm in a similar situation offering a professional service.

biko

dok_golf wrote: »

Also, don't know what you mean regards"unregistered"?? I'm registered for tax but not registered for vat. There is aworld of difference between being unregistered for both!!!

It's good that you explain these things because to me it sounds like the same thing.

1641

dok_golf wrote: »

The thing is I don't want to be registered for Vat. It incurs more expense,more work and more worry imo. I'm happy charging 700 a week which keeps me below the threshold.

Do you give receipts ? Accept payment by cheque?

dok_golf

Yes to both. Also accept payment via bank transfer which is becoming more common.

fergiesfolly

the_pen_turner wrote: »

if I'm normally pricing at 200 but have to lower to 150 to get the job then the only thing that can change is quality .

What do you change that decreases quality.
It's paint and a wall????

the_pen_turner

fergiesfolly wrote: »

What do you change that decreases quality.
It's paint and a wall????

speed you paint the wall,
how much effort you put into cutting in
how much you cover stuff
how much sanding and prep work you do.

rolling the walls is a very small part of the job

Any tradesmen I've ever hired for any tasks had been based on word of mouth. Most folks I know are the same.

Decrease the quality of your work and I think its safe to say you could watch future work evaporate

A happy customer will tell 10 people, an unhappy one will tell 100

Anyone claiming to charge nearly 200 a day and only get minimum wage out of it is either lying or woefully inept at running a business.

Someone mentioned 187 before vat. with "normal days off". That's 935 a week with the claim that only minimum wage is being taken, (9.55 * 40hrs) that's 382eur.

That means costs of 550 euros a week........ For a painter....... Time to look at a basic business courses or maybe a change in career.

7samurai

Van, fuel, tools ,phone and insurance would add up to quite a bit. also have to save money to take any holidays

the_pen_turner

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone claiming to charge nearly 200 a day and only get minimum wage out of it is either lying or woefully inept at running a business.

Someone mentioned 187 before vat. with "normal days off". That's 935 a week with the claim that only minimum wage is being taken, (9.55 * 40hrs) that's 382eur.

That means costs of 550 euros a week........ For a painter....... Time to look at a basic business courses or maybe a change in career.

sorry my numbers are based on 100 a day

take away 48 days for Saturdays and sundays,
11 bank holidays
20 holidays
10 sick days
12 business days where you take the van to be services, doe, accountant, insurance , rained off, customer cancels, jobs not ready for you to start

that leave 252 billable days

but 317 days wages to pay

vehicle running costs
2400 (50 a week for 48 weeks) deisil.
111 doe
250 service
150 tires etc
1000 insurance
333 tax
4244 a year
if you change the van every 2 years then it adds2890 a year to upgrade and fit it out

so 7134 a year to keep a newish van on the road a year




my overheads out side of the above came to 9040 last year including a few thousand on some tools


so to get 100 day for myself before tax
317 days is 31700 labour
plus 7134 in vehicle costs
and 9040 in overheads
that 48874 for last year

divide that by 252 billble days
and I would need to charge 189.98 a day just to pay 100 a day
that includes no profit or major investment in the business

fergiesfolly

the_pen_turner wrote: »

sorry my numbers are based on 100 a day

take away 48 days for Saturdays and sundays,
11 bank holidays
20 holidays
10 sick days
12 business days where you take the van to be services, doe, accountant, insurance , rained off, customer cancels, jobs not ready for you to start

that leave 252 billable days

but 317 days wages to pay

vehicle running costs
2400 (50 a week for 48 weeks) deisil.
111 doe
250 service
150 tires etc
1000 insurance
333 tax
4244 a year
if you change the van every 2 years then it adds2890 a year to upgrade and fit it out

so 7134 a year to keep a newish van on the road a year




my overheads out side of the above came to 9040 last year including a few thousand on some tools


so to get 100 day for myself before tax
317 days is 31700 labour
plus 7134 in vehicle costs
and 9040 in overheads
that 48874 for last year

divide that by 252 billble days
and I would need to charge 189.98 a day just to pay 100 a day
that includes no profit or major investment in the business

You take 10 sick days??!!??
You change your van every 2 years??!!??

Sign me up.

the_pen_turner

I'm not sayin I did but I would have to change ge that to give myself the same benefits of having a minimum paid job.
And it is cheaper to change the van every 2 years for me.

Mrs OBumble

fergiesfolly wrote: »

You take 10 sick days??!!??
You change your van every 2 years??!!??

Sign me up.

Only losing one day a month due to customer messing would be pretty good going.

Is public liability insurance in there somewhere?

the_pen_turner

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Only losing one day a month due to customer messing would be pretty good going.

Is public liability insurance in there somewhere?

yes under the 9040