Dog bite

Sabs0402

Hi I have a problem I'm hoping someone call help me.
I am the owner of an akita dog.
A few days ago a neighbours son put his hand over and through my fence where my dog is secured. It was dark out and my dog nipped him resulting in one puncture wound.
We obviously made sure the child was ok checked in with parents and were I formed everything was ok.no hospital check was needed also.
Then days later a different family member of the child asked me what ideas going to do about the dog and surely it should be put down. And they don't want it around.
My dog is secured at all times this child went out of his way at night to put his hand into my dog on my property.
Am I to blame?
Should me dog be put down.
My dog is 7 years old. Socialised well and obedience trained. He has never shown aggression in his life and lives happily alongside a miniature yorkie.
Any advice is appreciated

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Sabs0402

....... wrote: »

You should have your fence secured so as to prevent children (or adults) from being able to stick their hand through, if your dog is going to bite what comes through.

My fence is secured this child got something to stand on to reach this far.
What I would like to know is this my fault.
If my dog does this whilst on my property

Sabs0402

....... wrote: »

You should have your fence secured so as to prevent children (or adults) from being able to stick their hand through, if your dog is going to bite what comes through.

And also my dog had never bitten anybody before so I did not think this would ever happen

D3V!L

Get a sign saying you have a dog

Sabs0402

D3V!L wrote: »

Get a sign saying you have a dog

Yes i will definitely do that thank you..

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pxdf9i5cmoavkz

....... wrote: »

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That is stupid.

The child was trespassing and went to great effort to get in. What should the OP do? Build a Trump wall around his property?

@OP

Legal advice cannot be given on boards. If the parent of the child decides to pursue it then everyone could be spending a lot of time in court.

Am I to blame?
No

Should me dog be put down.
Absolutely not

Sabs0402

....... wrote: »

So the child reached OVER the fence?

How high is the fence?

The fence is around 7 feet high but the top of the fence from around 5 foot had gaps(fence gaps) anything under the 5 foot is mesched. My dog has been at my property 7 years and this has never happened before. The child got something to stand on because it was there after he left. The child also said I pet the dog all the time over the fence and he's friendly. Which I did not know about. Maybe because this was at night and it was dark maybe that's why it happened

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Sabs0402

Faith Gentle Welt wrote: »

That is stupid.

The child was trespassing and went to great effort to get in. What should the OP do? Build a Trump wall around his property?

@OP

Legal advice cannot be given on boards. If the parent of the child decides to pursue it then everyone could be spending a lot of time in court.

Am I to blame?
No

Should me dog be put down.
Absolutely not

Thank you I would not want to have music put down. My son is autistic and this dog is his best friend. I feel terrible about what has happened I have offered to pay any bills if they had went to hospital but there was no hospital involved. I have taken more precautions and am having a totally new higher fence built.
I feel like I should take my dog to my brothers for some time while this is been done is like to show I'm making an effort to ensure it does not happen again.
I'm hoping the neighbours can move on from this because this situation has caused me alot of stress

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Sabs0402

....... wrote: »

Dont be ridiculous.

No one trespassed on his property. The OP originally stated the child put their hand through and subsequently stated that the child stood on something so they must have reached over.

Either way, if you have a dog thats going to bite a hand through or over the fence you need to secure it so that kids cant be putting their hands in.

And put up a sign stating Beware of Dog.

Technically it is my property the child came into my garden to go up to my fence. The part that is not in my garden is secured by a high wall

Sabs0402

....... wrote: »

You do not have to have your dog put down, but you are well advised to secure the fence a bit higher so it doesnt happen again.

Thank you

Galway K9

to cover yourself, have a sign that says beware of dog, and private property, you are tresspassing and also mention to your hoem insurance that you have a home protection dog and then you should be covered (in future).

Sabs0402

....... wrote: »

Sounds like you need to mesh higher. 5ft is very low, its shorter than most adults.

Yes i think so. We are having a new wall built right now and fence will be gone. Hoping this solves this

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Sabs0402

....... wrote: »

If any of your neighbours mention anything like getting the dog put down then tell them you are considering pressing charges for trespassing.

I might say that I had never thought of that. Thank you

granturismo

Sabs0402 wrote: »

I might say that I had never thought of that. Thank you

If you go down this route, expect your neighbours to become hostile. Your fence was not suitable, had a gap at 5 foot which has already been pointed out is shorter than most adults - your dog is not a small dog. Most importantly, your dog bit a child, if you're looking for legal advice go to a solicitor and find our what the general precedents are for children and trespass.

You are building a wall which is good. Dont aggravate the situation.

bk

Be very careful, when it comes to Children, the law treats adults duty of care to them VERY differently then if they were an adult.

All the "beware of dogs", fencing and threats of trespassing won't wash it with courts when it comes to children. Generally the courts will assume that Children can't read those signs or just given their nature will ignore them and go exploring.

Try prosecuting a child in court for Trespassing and you would get laughed out of their! Plus it would likely make things much worse with your neighbours.

BTW Even with an adult, you would have a tough time prosecuting them for trespassing:

- The person didn't actually walk on your property, just reached over, likely not trespass.
- Trespass usually only applies if the trespasser was their to do damage, assault or theft. For instance you can't prosecute a postman or even a neighbour who ignored your "do not trespass" sign at the gate to come knock on your door.
- Their are specific exemptions to trespassing laws that this might well fall under.

People seem to think the law in Ireland is black and white, like you see in the movies. It really isn't like that here. Usually the court will take into consideration the circumstances. Sure a person found in your front garden with a Balaclava and crow bar with a long history of previous burglary, they would get done for Trespass. A postman or neighbour coming up the front footpath or in this case, a neighbours child simply reaching over a fence to pat the dog or whatever, nope, not a hope.

IMO your best approach is to make nice to your neighbours, maybe buy the child a nice toy and tell them (and follow through) on building the fence up higher, etc.

BTW I am not a lawyer, but you can read up about Trespassing laws yourself if interested.

Sabs0402

bk wrote: »

Be very careful, when it comes to Children, the law treats adults duty of care to them VERY differently then if they were an adult.

All the "beware of dogs", fencing and threats of trespassing won't wash it with courts when it comes to children. Generally the courts will assume that Children can't read those signs or just given their nature will ignore them and go exploring.

Try prosecuting a child in court for Trespassing and you would get laughed out of their! Plus it would likely make things much worse with your neighbours.

BTW Even with an adult, you would have a tough time prosecuting them for trespassing:

- The person didn't actually walk on your property, just reached over, likely not trespass.
- Trespass usually only applies if the trespasser was their to do damage, assault or theft. For instance you can't prosecute a postman or even a neighbour who ignored your "do not trespass" sign at the gate to come knock on your door.
- Their are specific exemptions to trespassing laws that this might well fall under.

People seem to think the law in Ireland is black and white, like you see in the movies. It really isn't like that here. Usually the court will take into consideration the circumstances. Sure a person found in your front garden with a Balaclava and crow bar with a long history of previous burglary, they would get done for Trespass. A postman or neighbour coming up the front footpath or in this case, a neighbours child simply reaching over a fence to pat the dog or whatever, nope, not a hope.

IMO your best approach is to make nice to your neighbours, maybe buy the child a nice toy and tell them (and follow through) on building the fence up higher, etc.

BTW I am not a lawyer, but you can read up about Trespassing laws yourself if interested.

I have offered to pay any bills if hospital was the case and have said the new wall is being built now. This was my answer when I was asked what I was going to do with the dog.
To be honest my neighbours do not like my dogs because of their breed anyway. My husband takes them to the beach at night to walk to avoid is bringing them out around the area. Most people would think because of their size they are dangerous.
My dogs are champion show dogs well socialised and trained.
Thank you all so much for all the advice, I'm hoping things can be worked out for the best for everyone and I can keep my dogs.
My trainer has been told about the incident and the dog will be going back

Stoner

Sabs0402 wrote:

Technically it is my property the child came into my garden to go up to my fence. The part that is not in my garden is secured by a high wall

But a child was bitten by a dog you own, not an adult capable of assessing danger.

Could a child climb over to get a ball?

Step back, is this a cheap lesson for everyone?

Children will get themselves into trouble but I'd advise that you secure the dog better.

Maybe get an internal dog run, my friend a has four in his garden for his Sheppard's. You could climb over the wall and get a ball in his garden and the dogs wouldn't bite you as they are in internal dog runs with a roof etc.

That's a big dangerous dog that you have, you knew that when you bought it. Maybe you need to protect other kids from it.

Imo the internal dog run keeps the dog in your son's life and protects your neighbor's children from your dog.

If you want I'll ask the neighbor where he bought the run. He has a kennel in each one and a perspex roof on the top of each enclosure. It's easy to bolt together and it's the right job imho

bk

Sabs0402 wrote: »

I have offered to pay any bills if hospital was the case and have said the new wall is being built now. This was my answer when I was asked what I was going to do with the dog.

That is good, best to keep it friendly with your neighbours and best to try and do what you can to make them feel safer.

I'm not an expert on dogs, but Stoners suggestion sounds good too.

Hopefully it will blow over, but if it did ever go to court, the more you can show that you are reasonable and tried to be a good neighbour and tried to stop it from happening again, then the better it would go for you.

Certainly don't get angry with your neighbours or threaten their child with Trespass or anything like that, literally the worst thing you could do is escalate it.

Kids are kids and they sometimes do dopey things. But our society and courts expect us adults to take extra steps to protect them (and yes even kids that aren't your own) from dangers they might get into from their dopey mistakes.

rolion

Wait...just don't get it...sorry, not been smart here !!!

I have a dog inside well defined the perimeter of my home.
Then, a child comes somehow and touches the dog and dog reacts, friendly or not.
Result: I'm at fault...

I can see working with the parent of the child, if necessary but that stops there.
A child, a third party entered my property. Sorry for the child, but...if guilty fingers pointing to me,can I turn around and blame the parents for not taking care of the child !?
Where's the owner issue or the dogs fault !?

Thanks

PS
don't have a dog, never will in these suburbs estates and no issues with kids.
hate the dogs thrown out the home and barking at 6-7am (don't need to set the fcuking alarm) but pissed on the owners not poor animals.

bk

rolion wrote: »

Wait...just don't get it...sorry, not been smart here !!!

I have a dog inside well defined the perimeter of my home.
Then, a child comes somehow and touches the dog and dog reacts, friendly or not.
Result: I'm at fault...

I'm not a solicitor, but yes, probably.

Check out Occupiers' Liability Act, 1995:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1995/act/10/enacted/en/html

From here:

http://www.cantillons.com/blog/item/Slips,-Trips-amd-Falls-dash-Injuries-Suffered-on-Another-Person-apos-s-Premises*/85

The Occupiers’ Liability Act came into force in 1995 and governs recovery for injury/damage suffered by an entrant as a result of the dangerous state of an occupiers’ premises.

And the law specifically has a different level of duty when it comes to children:

Naturally, the age of the injured person is likely, along with all other relevant factors, to come under consideration as a relevant factor. Thus, the minority holding in McNamara -V- ESB under the old law, that an 11 year old boy would be unlikely to read a warning notice, and the Court's holding that a 9 year old girl would be unaware of the danger of lighted candles (Rooney -V- Connelly), would still likely pertain in similar circumstances.

http://www.tormeys.ie/news-a-events/library/105-occupier-liability-act-1995

So I'd say the law is pretty clear on this and the OP would be in trouble if it went to court.

rolion wrote: »

I can see working with the parent of the child, if necessary but that stops there.
A child, a third party entered my property. Sorry for the child, but...if guilty fingers pointing to me,can I turn around and blame the parents for not taking care of the child !?
Where's the owner issue or the dogs fault !?

And you would end up in serious trouble! Which just shows why it is always a good idea to get a solicitors opinion in such cases!

Obviously the details of the case would be looked at in the court. But generally speaking you couldn't blame this on the parents. Assuming the child was playing in their own back yard, then parents can have a reasonable expectation that they are safe and parents don't have to watch them 24/7

It is generally expected in society that children can play safely in their own back yard and even neighbourhood without needing to fear from getting attacked by a big dangerous dog.

There is also the issue that the child wasn't even on the OP's property and simply reached over into the property. So not really on the OP's property and in fact the OP had a significant danger close to their neighbours property.

It is interesting, from this thread, it is obvious how little many people know about the laws of their own country!

10pennymixup

Sabs0402 wrote: »

.................To be honest my neighbours do not like my dogs because of their breed anyway. My husband takes them to the beach at night to walk to avoid is bringing them out around the area. Most people would think because of their size they are dangerous................

Most people would include the legislators that placed Japanese Atika's on the "dangerous dogs list".

5.1ofhttp://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1998/si/442/made/en/print

Sabs0402

rolion wrote: »

Wait...just don't get it...sorry, not been smart here !!!

I have a dog inside well defined the perimeter of my home.
Then, a child comes somehow and touches the dog and dog reacts, friendly or not.
Result: I'm at fault...

I can see working with the parent of the child, if necessary but that stops there.
A child, a third party entered my property. Sorry for the child, but...if guilty fingers pointing to me,can I turn around and blame the parents for not taking care of the child !?
Where's the owner issue or the dogs fault !?

Thanks

PS
don't have a dog, never will in these suburbs estates and no issues with kids.
hate the dogs thrown out the home and barking at 6-7am (don't need to set the fcuking alarm) but pissed on the owners not poor animals.

What do you not get?

First of all my dog does not bark akitas in my experience rarely bark. He's secured on my property and this happened I asked opinions and have took responsibility wemt straight to the childs parents offered to pay medical bills .however I asked if that was enough to put the dog down.that was all.
I have been speaking with dog warden and he was out and seen my dog. Informed me this was not enough to have him put down.
He's not more secured by an 8 foot wall

Stoner

I agree OP it's not enough to have the dog put down. It was a warning to everyone involved.

You seem to be taking steps to change the situation and have called the warden

I've been in your situation, although it was a collie, I've two now but he was a champion. It was a long time ago I was only 21 looking back.
I had my warning, the steps I took were not good enough. I still regret it many years later.
I hope the steps you take are good enough to keep the dog and your son together and to prevent injuries to a child. I'm sure that is achievable.

I'd like to remind everyone that legal advice can't be provided here on boards and if head down that road I'll close the thread.

Mr. G

I remember reading in a farming situation that a trespasser (for want of a better word) entered a farm and tripped. They later sued the farmer for injury, and the farmer was found to be responsible as it happened on their land. Obviously every situation is different and this is a different situation but it's worth noting.

You are responsible for your dog and as other posters correctly pointed out the states views on the protection of children is very strong (and in my opinion rightly so).