Snow - Can't get to office - Have to take annual leave?

Hoboo

splinter65 wrote: »

No force majeure applicable in this case.

Correct, but there are ways around it

slowburner

If an employer tells the employee not to come to work because of weather conditions, and the employee is available for work, is the employer obliged to pay for that time?

_Brian

slowburner wrote: »

If an employer tells the employee not to come to work because of weather conditions, and the employee is available for work, is the employer obliged to pay for that time?

An employer has the right to instruct you to take andaysnannual leave.

Now, I think it needs to be done a month in advance, so it may not wash for snow days.

Most employers are urging people to make a call on the weather and be sensible, if they think they won’t make it in then take annual leave, or loose a day pay.

Rowley Birkin QC

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

Quick one, a friend works in the HSE. Can't make it to work today due to the conditions and all client appointments have been cancelled for the same reason.

Her boss is telling her that she has to take annual leave even though there's nothing to do even if she could make it in.

Is this correct considering the national weather warnings in place?

That there was nothing to do is immaterial. She has contracted hours and should fulfil them. It's not the employers problem if she has trouble getting to work. What next, "my car won't start"?

So, she should have gone to work or taken a short notice day vacation

sashafierce

This post has been deleted.

Hoboo

slowburner wrote: »

If an employer tells the employee not to come to work because of weather conditions, and the employee is available for work, is the employer obliged to pay for that time?

Yes, unless their contract allows for a short term contract/layoff.

Hoboo

_Brian wrote: »

An employer has the right to instruct you to take andaysnannual leave.

No they cant. The employee has the option to take a days paid leave (from holidays), or an unpaid days leave.

uck51js9zml2yt

An employer demanding an employee to come into work in contravention to a weather warning like we have would want to have good legal team in the event the employee got injured on the way in or home.

Hoboo

sashafierce wrote: »

What is the situation for employees who don't go to work because of weather conditions but other employees from the same area doing the same job are offered hotel accomodation. Why should one be down annual leave when they weren't offered alternative arrangements?

Would depend on employee contract. All things being equal, unless its due to one of the 9 grounds for discrimination, then its the employers choice. If the company is open, and your contract has no provision for providing alternative accommodation in such situations, then you're expected to be at work.

That said, if you're not being offered accommodation, Id certainly question why not.

carzony

I'm working in a Security related job which offers a 24/7 service. My employer has instructed all staff that they need to be in for their normal working hours despite the potential danger.

Could I simply refuse without being dismissed?

I was able to work today with no problem but looking out my window right now I don't think it'll be easy/safe tomorrow.

Green Peter

Take the annual leave and do something constructive around the house. It might even save your life tomorrow

galway1973

Can a company not pay you for working on Friday and then make a Saturday compulsory ?

cycle4fun

carzony wrote: »

I'm working in a Security related job which offers a 24/7 service. My employer has instructed all staff that they need to be in for their normal working hours despite the potential danger.

Many workers have to work tomorrow. In the countries that make some of the goods for us like Volvo commercial vehicles, they all go to work and laugh at our overpaid sissies of our government declaring a red weather warning.

vg88

Got told i can work at home, but they won't give me security clearance on my laptop.

However I'm taking two un-certified sick days as i'm dying with a head cold. It's annoying that employers are putting their staff in a dangerous position.

cycle4fun

moloner4 wrote: »

However I'm taking two un-certified sick days .

Can farmers (or indeed other self employed) take 2 paid un-certified sick days?
Naw, the work has to be done.

vg88

cycle4fun wrote: »

Can farmers (or indeed other self employed) take 2 paid un-certified sick days?
Naw, the work has to be done.

So what's your problem? I didn't decide to be a farmer or self employed. Seriously how would I even get to work if there's no buses as I don't drive?

If you have a chip on your shoulder for employees good for you.

STB.

cycle4fun wrote: »

Many workers have to work tomorrow. In the countries that make some of the goods for us like Volvo commercial vehicles, they all go to work and laugh at our overpaid sissies of our government declaring a red weather warning.

"Have to".

No one has to do anything if they feel that they are putting themselves at risk.

Your attitude is appalling. There is nothing sissy about making a call that saves lives.

Jerry Vast Celery wrote: »

An employer demanding an employee to come into work in contravention to a weather warning like we have would want to have good legal team in the event the employee got injured on the way in or home.

The most sensible post on this thread. Some of the idiotic bully boy responses would wind a lot of these up in such a scenario.

JKerova1

cycle4fun wrote: »

Many workers have to work tomorrow. In the countries that make some of the goods for us like Volvo commercial vehicles, they all go to work and laugh at our overpaid sissies of our government declaring a red weather warning.

That's cos they live in bloody Sweden where it snows most of the year. We get heavy snow probably once or twice a decade at most. Hence the reason why our government makes little provision for an event which MIGHT happen once in their tenure in power and why people don't spent 500 quid on winter tyres they will never use.

carzony

I just took a quick spin around the block to assess what it might be like in the morning. I got stuck a few times and it's difficult to even drive on roads I know very well. I'll get up early and see what it's like but I certaintly won't be putting myself in danger for the sake of a days pay.

John_Rambo

If you're a HSE admin worker you'll likely take the day off, take the pay hit and take 43 days off sick and "show them" and keep that lovely ball rolling.

Belt

My situation - booked Wed, Thurs and Fri as annual leave. However, my office closed these days and we were contacted to instruct us not to come in.

I've requested these days back as the office was closed and I couldn't have worked. Also other employees are not being required to use annual leave for these missing days and are also being fully paid (as am I). My issue is I am down 3 days when others aren't.

What's people's thoughts? I've gotten a mixture so far - some think it's cheeky and tough luck, others say im 100% right.

KERSPLAT!

I'd be incredibly pissed if it was me and I lost out on the AL days I had requested but... I think it's fair enough for the employer to take them at the same time. You booked them off, you got them off. Whatever happened outside of the office wasn't the employers fault.

Might have been even more cheeky but you could have tried to cancel the AL, once cancelled you'd be in the same boat as everyone else. It's a tough one.

dennyk

I think it's definitely fair to ask for those leave days back if they closed the office and still paid everyone else on those days without requiring them to use their annual leave to get paid. Don't think they'd be strictly legally required to give them back like with illness on leave days or anything, though, so they could still say no and then you'd have to decide how hard you really want to push them on it. It's possible you could take it to an outside authority with the argument that you're effectively being given fewer days of leave for the year than the rest of your colleagues and maybe get some recompense for it, but there's really no telling whether you'd be successful or not, and the attempt would no doubt ruin your relationship with your employer no matter the outcome.

SpannerMonkey

what about this situation . the site is closed because its unsafe , however 3 key personnel are required to be on site . 1 of these personnel cant get to work due to the roads . living on back roads 10 inches of snow 30 miles from work. no way through and cant make it to work . the site is technically closed because its unsafe, but these 3 people are expected to come to work despite this and 1 cant make it. genuinely cant no possible way.

do they get paid ?

Peregrinus

If your duties require you to attend at the workplace, and you don't attend at the workplace, you don't get paid.

You won't be disciplined if, in fact, it was impossible for you to get to work. But you won't be paid.

finglashoop

Any in hr have an idea on this?

I work monday to friday

Saturday is time and a half
Sunday is double time.

I worked monday and tuesday and then my job closed until Sunday

I worked sunday but am.not being paid double as i didnt work my 39 hr basic week?

Is this correct? I worked the basic hours available to me

knipex

finglashoop wrote: »

Any in hr have an idea on this?

I work monday to friday

Saturday is time and a half
Sunday is double time.

I worked monday and tuesday and then my job closed until Sunday

I worked sunday but am.not being paid double as i didnt work my 39 hr basic week?

Is this correct? I worked the basic hours available to me

Typically you need to do 39 hours before any overtime is paid.. Check your contract.

dennyk

Overtime pay isn't required by law, so that bit would be down to your contract terms. Like knipex said, overtime pay would usually be based on exceeding your standard weekly hours, not what days you worked, so I wouldn't expect the time-and-a-half for Saturday if you had a few unexpected days off the rest of the week and didn't hit 39 hours as a result.

The Sunday work is a bit more iffy, as the law does say you're generally supposed to receive something (extra pay or extra time off) for working on Sundays, but only if "the fact of his or her having to work on that day has not otherwise been taken account of in the determination of his or her pay." This will probably also come down to what your contract says; if it specifically says that any Sunday work will be paid at double time without any stipulations as to total hours worked, then you should be entitled to that even if you didn't work the rest of the week. If it says nothing about how Sunday work is compensated at all and it's just been your employer's practice to pay you as such, it could be reasonable to argue that you should be getting at least time-and-a-half for your Sunday hours, as that would seem to be the established pay increase for Sunday work at your company (under normal circumstances it'd be half your normal pay added to your 1.5x overtime pay due to Sunday hours normally being overtime work).

twowheelsonly

If you're rostered on then the Sunday double time stands.
If it's volountary overtime then it all depends on your contract.

finglashoop

My contract is rest day 1 1.5 rest day 2 double. So sat and sunday for me. Unless i swap a shift and take a day off during the week overtime applies.

The company being closed is where the issue is arising.


( they paid everyone 200 for working Sunday as a thank you for turning up. This wasnt known to any staff until the following wednesday)


But this payment was made regardless of people working only Sunday or as i worked mon tues and and sunday

I could have not worked as it was a rostered rest day 2 for me. Company asked people not rostered to come to work to catch up.. I went to work understanding it would be double time.

My manager agreed with me and i was paid accordingly until deductions where made this week backdated.