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Biological males in women's sport

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    #782
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    DS86DS wrote: »
    I would like to know where the feminists are on this one. You have men who are claiming to be women, but have an unfair advantage in female sports. Not to mention putting the security of women at risk by insisting on their rights to use female bathrooms or female only clubs.
    There is a feminist anti male-to-female group called the trans exclusionary radical feminists (TERFs).


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    #783
    Zorya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    Konnor Stale Stack wrote: »
    There is a feminist anti male-to-female group called the trans exclusionary radical feminists (TERFs).

    I don't think they are a group, per se. I think TERF is a slur that is applied like ''Nazi'' or ''Alt Right'' as a shut down mechanism. People who are not even feminists in the way it is understood nowadays are called TERFs. Lesbians who won't have sex with penis-bearing trans women are called TERFs.

    There certainly are many women and men who are arguing against all this. Not in an organised group as such, that I know of. There are points of contact like Fair Play For Women - https://fairplayforwomen.com/

    There is a good article there - an open letter written by Ana Paula henkel to the International Olympic Committee - https://fairplayforwomen.com/ana_paula_henkel/

    I think it is too late though. The time to call a halt was way before actual legitimate science was thrown out the window and various legislative actions were taken, eg Self ID for gender or changing Birth Certs. Now it would require such a row back to a sensible position that it would look like authoritarianism (though it would not be).


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    #784
    Montgolfier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭Montgolfier


    Hande hoche! wrote: »
    From what I understand, they test the level of testosterone. Still imagine there is some advantages post transition in terms of bone density and muscle mass owing to their previous gender.

    If your a man with lower testosterone levels and felt like you weren't a real man. Could you go through the treatment to boost your levels of testosterone to be more of a man's man.


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    #785
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/tasmania-to-be-first-aussie-state-to-remove-gender-on-birth-certificate/news-story/ec605df2b3d1384a7cff33e9c0db7f87




    https://theconversation.com/explainer-why-removing-sex-from-birth-certificates-matters-to-gender-diverse-people-105571


    If this kind of thing became widespread could you even have male female differentiated sports?

    It’s probably legally impossible with self identification.

    As I said before McKinnon’s logic is correct in law. If the law says that a trans woman is a woman then it’s hard to see why a testosterone limit should apply legally.


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    #786
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Konnor Stale Stack wrote: »
    There is a feminist anti male-to-female group called the trans exclusionary radical feminists (TERFs).

    They are called that. They don’t call themselves that. In fact traditional feminism was pretty much jettisoned by the trans movement (largely driven by American cultural imperialism).


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    #787
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 18,483 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Jimbob1977 wrote: »
    The only labels that matter are XX and XY

    you biological essentialist, so hateful :pac: , it would be the way to go though to stop this fckery with language

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #788
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    Yeah was just responding to the "what have the feminists got to say about it?" query. There are feminists who are critical of it.

    Anyone with sense would see the ludicrousness of it.


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    #789
    YFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    Any female have a sex change to a male that dominate a male participate sport?


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    #790
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,305 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    If it goes that way all it'll mean is there will be men in sport and no women so it'll become differentiated naturally, but with women just not competing .

    It's hard to see this as anything other than an attack on women's sports at this stage. It's happening at all levels, in the US, high school girls are being pushed out of athletics by biological males. This could be scholarships on the line and ultimately result in less females able to compete at an elite level.

    There is another case in the news recently also about a Brazilian handball player who was mediocre at best in the men's league but is breaking records all over the the place against women. How did we get to the point where women objecting to this is bigotry?


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    #791
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,305 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    The Padre wrote: »
    Most women just go blindly along with these things because 'muh feels and 'muh oppression' and when us men try to stand up for you, you just call us Nazis and bigots.

    Well whatever. Have fun getting utterly wrecked on the pitch by 'Anna' who is 6'4" and weighs 280lbs. Haha.

    You have it wrong there, there is a large contingent of women who speaking out about this and they are ones being called Nazis and bigots. They are being reported to the police, prevented from meeting, threatened with bombs, physically assaulted for doing this by mostly biological males tbh.


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    #792
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    It's hard to see this as anything other than an attack on women's sports at this stage. It's happening at all levels, in the US, high school girls are being pushed out of athletics by biological males. This could be scholarships on the line and ultimately result in less females able to compete at an elite level.

    There is another case in the news recently also about a Brazilian handball player who was mediocre at best in the men's league but is breaking records all over the the place against women. How did we get to the point where women objecting to this is bigotry?


    I wonder if misogyny is an appropriate term when a person decides to bogart your gender, insists that retaining their penis is a reasonable option and that you're a bigot for even mentioning it, use their biological advantages to take over your sport, and call you transphobic if you object.

    It's putting women against the ropes, demonizing them if they object, and redefining what it is to be female while insisting that their definition is the only one that counts and not the lived experience or common sense of the people who've lived as women and experienced their lives as women, and have interacted with the world, and had the world interact with them as women, for the entirety of their existence.

    To be clear, I know that transgender people genuinely exist and that they face issues I can't imagine. I'm just not convinced that they genuinely exist in every case of a biological male demanding not just the same rights, but the right to dictate what it is to be a woman and the right to demonize biological women who question the wisdom or fairness of that.


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    #793
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    why dont we just let everyone compete together? gender is a social construct


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    #794
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,305 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Konnor Stale Stack wrote: »
    There is a feminist anti male-to-female group called the trans exclusionary radical feminists (TERFs).

    They aren't "anti" male to female. They just don't think that they are literally women and believe that biological females should have their own spaces and sports which are free of males , however they identify.

    Terf is a slur and pretty meaningless really given that there are actually trans women who have been labelled it


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    #795
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,305 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    why dont we just let everyone compete together? gender is a social construct

    Gender is. Sex isn't.


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    #796
    The Talking Bread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,050 ✭✭✭✭The Talking Bread


    Happens in horse racing occasionally

    https://twitter.com/Chris_Napthine/status/1075499327450157056


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    #797
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    How did we get to the point where women objecting to this is bigotry?

    because people with profound personal issues egged on by people with extremely niche ideologies were allowed to set the agenda and make the rules. the inevitable outcomes were flagged again and again but those people were shouted down as hate filled heretics.


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    #798
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,305 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Fair play to Martina for refusing to back down once she realised what a nasty piece of work she was dealing with. How dare McKinnon even try to put themselves in the same league an icon like her. Talk about narcissistic.

    Sorry, don't know how to do the image thing so I'll just copy and paste..
    Not to worry - I will keep fighting the fight for fairness, just not with people like Rachel who only knows how to attack. And who apparently fell off her bike after gloating and celebrating winning a race- so a bad sport to boot:). I am not going anywhere:)


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    #799
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,583 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Why can't they just create another competition just for the transexuals, that would make it fairer on female competitors as it would be just real women who would be competing and not some fella who had an operation to make him a woman.


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    #800
    The Talking Bread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,050 ✭✭✭✭The Talking Bread


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    Why can't they just create another competition just for the transexuals, that would make it fairer on female competitors as it would be just real women who would be competing and not some fella who had an operation to make him a woman.

    That phrase is why!! You are clearly out of touch with the crazy so called liberal world we live in these days! Signing yourself a death wish from the mob!


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    #801
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,305 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    Why can't they just create another competition just for the transexuals, that would make it fairer on female competitors as it would be just real women who would be competing and not some fella who had an operation to make him a woman.

    Operation? You're outdated in your thinking there, no operation is required. Sure the teenage boys winning girls state athletic championships in the US don't even take any sort of hormone blockers, they are regular teenage boys in every way except they say they are girls on the inside.


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    #802
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    The Padre wrote: »
    Well whatever. Have fun getting utterly wrecked on the pitch by 'Anna' who is 6'4" and weighs 280lbs. Haha.
    How does it even begin to make sense to say that to a woman who disagrees with it.


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    #803
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,305 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Konnor Stale Stack wrote: »

    How does it even begin to make sense to say that to a woman who disagrees with it.

    Because there are lots of men who are relishing women being "put back in their place" , especially if the women are the "man hating feminazi" kind who they are so fond of ranting about


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    #804
    mazcon
    Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭mazcon


    Remember the good old days when you could be burned at the stake if you didn't believe in transubstantiation? Welcome to the 21st century version. The Trannish Inquisition, just like the Spanish Inquisition only better.


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    #805
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,583 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    Operation? You're outdated in your thinking there, no operation is required. Sure the teenage boys winning girls state athletic championships in the US don't even take any sort of hormone blockers, they are regular teenage boys in every way except they say they are girls on the inside.

    Well that's even more ridiculous.

    If they still have a cock they are a man so tell them to compete with men or don't compete at all.


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    #806
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,583 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    The Talking Bread wrote: »
    That phrase is why!! You are clearly out of touch with the crazy so called liberal world we live in these days! Signing yourself a death wish from the mob!

    It's christmas maybe they will spare my life.:D


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    #807
    mazcon
    Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭mazcon


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    The Talking Bread wrote: »
    That phrase is why!! You are clearly out of touch with the crazy so called liberal world we live in these days! Signing yourself a death wish from the mob!

    It's christmas maybe they will spare my life.:D
    I wouldn't bet on it!


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    #808
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users Posts: 8,809 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Hannah Mounsey has already broken a woman’s leg apparently so she’s ahead of you there Zorya.

    As for McKinnon; imagine lecturing Navratilova on sporting achievement? God above. She’s up there with Maradona and the like; and getting condescended to by someone who wins races cos she was a man for years.


    And watch as Navratilova has to beg and apologise for any "offence" caused.
    And the left wing media will lap it up, sick and demented.


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    #809
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    Because there are lots of men who are relishing women being "put back in their place" , especially if the women are the "man hating feminazi" kind who they are so fond of ranting about

    It’s mostly the “woke male feminist” that’s pushing back at women concerned by this.


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    #810
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users Posts: 8,809 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    https://www.bbc.com/sport/46453958

    The vile disgusting joke BBC getting behind the men cheating by competing against women.

    Nice the way BBC quotes the word threat - yeah stay classy there BBC, stay classy.

    Interesting the BBC don't have a comment here on how there are MEN in MMA beating the **** out of women - yay !!! PROGRESSIVE!!!!


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    #811
    The Talking Bread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,050 ✭✭✭✭The Talking Bread


    Hector Savage wrote: »
    https://www.bbc.com/sport/46453958

    The vile disgusting joke BBC getting behind the men cheating by competing against women.

    Nice the way BBC quotes the word threat - yeah stay classy there BBC, stay classy.

    Interesting the BBC don't have a comment here on how there are MEN in MMA beating the **** out of women - yay !!! PROGRESSIVE!!!!

    So much * anger







    *Faux


    .


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