Biological males in women's sport

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Heres a good overview of the Irish legislation from a organisation favourable to that legislation.


Major points.

There is no exemption for sports in Ireland.
No need to transition.
Gender is self declared.

http://www.teni.ie/page.aspx?contentid=586

Hego Damask

I see Navratilova was bullied into having the "correct" opinion

https://www.bbc.com/sport/48777660

Hego Damask

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

India Willoughby a trans women journalist stated that there's currently 2000 male 100m sprinters alive today who have ran faster than the fasted female time in history.

1500 of the top male tennis players could beat Serena Williams.

What's to stop one of these guys going on the female tour for a few yrs? With the same prize money on offer?

Biology is just a fact of life that we have to accept. At the elite level men and women will never be able to complete with each other on an equal footing.

It's gonna happen, even a player ranked #200 .... they make sh*t money in tennis, he's gonna have the idea to transition knowing he will be a muti millionaire in no time.

alan partridge aha

Hego Damask wrote: »

I see Navratilova was bullied into having the "correct" opinion

https://www.bbc.com/sport/48777660

What a load of complete bollo5ks

ceadaoin.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

How large do you think the amount of chancers is? Honestly. I doubt anyone would seriously transition from male to female for some easy cash. Do you not take your gender seriously? I couldn't imagine transitioning if I really wanted to because I was transgender, let alone doing it for a few quid.

Surely you know the lengths cheaters have gone to in order to win? This is relatively easy in comparison. All they have to do is say they feel like a woman and drop their testosterone levels a bit. There are some advocating for no suppression of testosterone at all , that women just need to try harder to compete against them.

Anyway, it doesn't matter if they are chancers or not. The end result is women being pushed out of their own sports. Currently there are male athletes in the US competing as girls at high school level, without any physical transition. They are taking scholarships from females resulting in fewer female athletes able to reach the elite level. It's destroying women's sports from the bottom up.

astrofool

I'm not too worried, while the west ties itself in knots, Russia and China will take advantage and win everything. Women's sports, females need not apply.

Richard Hillman

Hego Damask wrote: »

I see Navratilova was bullied into having the "correct" opinion

https://www.bbc.com/sport/48777660

I watched the first 5 minutes of it and knew exactly which way it was leading. I turned off and switched back on again for the last couple of minutes. It was obvious she was gonna fudge on it. The BBC wouldn't have allowed her make a TV programme if she didn't flip.

Her get out is "whilst keeping a level playing field". You know full well she hasn't changed her opinion but will throw out something vague so it doesn't cost her.

Dante7

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Yes but no but.

The ideology of the trans movement is that a trans person is the gender/sex they have changed to.

That’s also the law in Ireland and some other countries. I assume therefore any challenge to the IOC rules in countries that allow self identification would win as its legally discriminatory.

No. Sex is still the protected category, not assumed gender. Trans rights activists are misrepresenting the law. Biological males have no legal rights to enter female only spaces. They can shout that trans women are women as much as they like, but it will never be true.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Interesting future ahead when a biological male wins the women’s hundred metres (in the next Olympics or the one after) and the coverage goes back to the studio.

Squeaky bum time. What will the commentators say? Will biology even be discussed. Will any dissenter be labelled a transphobe? Will there be any dissenters or will they have sought other employment at that stage.

Will instead people welcome the end of prejudice?

In the very astute Hans Christian Andersen story about the Emperor’s new clothes the Emperor was convinced by the tailors that only good people could see the non existent clothing, which is why he and his courtiers pretended to see it as he marched around stark naked. The courtiers of course were also responding to the Kings authority. Both factors are at play here.

In the story a child said the truth and the truth was acknowledged; I think that’s a flaw in the story. they probably would have shut him up or said he was a bad child and thus wouldn’t see the cloth. As predicted. A clothphobe if you like.

Anyway they wouldn’t have abandoned their illusions.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Dante7 wrote: »

No. Sex is still the protected category, not assumed gender. Trans rights activists are misrepresenting the law. Biological males have no legal rights to enter female only spaces. They can shout that trans women are women as much as they like, but it will never be true.

It’s the law in this country. People can change their gender/sex and there is no exemption for sports.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

How can that be legal if there is no legal distinction between a trans woman and a woman.

I’m just throwing out suggestions. I don’t see why an athlete who says they are transitioning would have a problem showing their commitment to it. If it breaches discrimination laws then we will have to accept that a mockery might be made of women’s sports which would be a shame.

Dante7

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

It’s the law in this country. People can change their gender/sex and there is no exemption for sports.

No, you're wrong there. There gender self id laws which were introduced through the backdoor here do at least preclude biological males entering female only spaces.

Atlantic Dawn

It should be male/female declaration at birth allowing you to take part in either male or female sports. Anything else you want to declare or change from to should be part of some seperate specialists games for fans of such.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Dante7 wrote: »

No, you're wrong there. There gender self id laws which were introduced through the backdoor here do at least preclude biological males entering female only spaces.

No they don’t. Here’s the act.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2015/act/25/section/1/enacted/en/html

During the Dail readings they took that out.

In June 2014, the Minister for Social Protection published the revised General Scheme of the Gender Recognition Bill following Cabinet approval. The revised scheme included several significant changes to the proposed Bill, including the removal of a sports clause (which would have severely hindered trans people’s participation in sports) and provided a pathway for legal recognition for 16 and 17 years olds.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Surely you know the lengths cheaters have gone to in order to win? This is relatively easy in comparison. All they have to do is say they feel like a woman and drop their testosterone levels a bit. There are some advocating for no suppression of testosterone at all , that women just need to try harder to compete against them.

Anyway, it doesn't matter if they are chancers or not. The end result is women being pushed out of their own sports. Currently there are male athletes in the US competing as girls at high school level, without any physical transition. They are taking scholarships from females resulting in fewer female athletes able to reach the elite level. It's destroying women's sports from the bottom up.

Oh my god, no. That is awful. I watched a documentary about the doping of underage athletes in East Germany in the ‘70s. An American Olympic swimmer of the era was interviewed. She said that trying to keep with the East German women, who had essentially crossed the gender barrier, caused her to completely burn out and go backwards. By the time the ‘76 Olympics, she was really far off the times she had recorded only a year or two before. And it wasn’t that she was simply aging out, she should have been hitting her peak. Nobody then knew what was going on (even the East German girls themselves) so female athletes from other countries just saw their crazy times and tried to keep up, not knowing that that was an impossible task. Shirley Babashoff was the only female swimmer at that time who was at least able to give them a run for their money and even she used to end up losing to them most of the time, sometimes by considerable margins. Babashoff was heavily criticised in the US media for questioning why the East German female swimmers were suddenly talking in much deeper voices and growing facial hair. She was labelled a sore loser.

Anyone saying that the female athletes just need to work harder and that testosterone shouldn’t be reduced is betraying their lack of physiological knowledge.

dodderangler

Born a male! You are and always will be a male. Facts don’t care about feelings. You can dress like a woman. That’s fine. I don’t care. It’s not my life. It’s yours. But you are not a woman and you should not or ever be allowed to compete in a female sport. It is completely wrong.
All the surgery in the world will not change the fact that you are a male. Born a male. You finish as a male. Surgery only means you appear as something else but you are biologically still a male.

Littlehorny

I'm actually surprised the USA don't have a few transgender footballers on their team already at this years World Cup!

lab man

zs

Candamir

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I’m just throwing out suggestions. I don’t see why an athlete who says they are transitioning would have a problem showing their commitment to it. If it breaches discrimination laws then we will have to accept that a mockery might be made of women’s sports which would be a shame.

Really? Why should we have to accept women’s sport being made a mockery of, and what would amount to the end of women’s sport. Surely the right approach is to change the law to protect women’s sport for biological women!

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Candamir wrote: »

Really? Why should we have to accept women’s sport being made a mockery of, and what would amount to the end of women’s sport. Surely the right approach is to change the law to protect women’s sport for biological women!

your representatives disagree and they had that option in the initial gender reform bill

italodisco

Lol
Hard to believe anyone thinks a well trained female athlete has any hope against a well trained biologically male competitor

Testosterone.

Look it up ffs, its not that hard to understand the advantages

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Candamir wrote: »

Really? Why should we have to accept women’s sport being made a mockery of, and what would amount to the end of women’s sport. Surely the right approach is to change the law to protect women’s sport for biological women!

I agree but it’s not straightforward if it contravenes discrimination legalisation. I haven’t a clue about law so I can’t go more in-depth here really.

Candamir

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I agree but it’s not straightforward if it contravenes discrimination legalisation. I haven’t a clue about law so I can’t go more in-depth here really.

It would have been very straightforward (in Ireland in any case) if Head 26 had been left in the Act.
It is astounding that it was taken out, given that the restriction could only have been implemented if ‘fair competition’ or ‘safety of others’ was threatened.
So women’s safety in sport, and fair competition comes a poor second to pandering to an extremist lobby.

https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Gender-Recognition-Bill-2013.aspx
“Head 26: Sport

Head 26 enables a body responsible for regulating participation in competitive gender-effected sporting events to prohibit or restrict the participation in such events of a person whose acquired gender has been recognised under the Act and who is seeking to compete in the acquired gender. The prohibition or restriction can be effected if it is deemed necessary to secure fair competition or the safety of other competitors.”

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Candamir wrote: »

It would have been very straightforward (in Ireland in any case) if Head 26 had been left in the Act.
It is astounding that it was taken out, given that the restriction could only have been implemented if ‘fair competition’ or ‘safety of others’ was threatened.
So women’s safety in sport, and fair competition comes a poor second to pandering to an extremist lobby.

https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Gender-Recognition-Bill-2013.aspx
“Head 26: Sport

Head 26 enables a body responsible for regulating participation in competitive gender-effected sporting events to prohibit or restrict the participation in such events of a person whose acquired gender has been recognised under the Act and who is seeking to compete in the acquired gender. The prohibition or restriction can be effected if it is deemed necessary to secure fair competition or the safety of other competitors.”

Extraordinary as if the entire legislature were under a spell.

Sir Oxman

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Heres a good overview of the Irish legislation from a organisation favourable to that legislation.


Major points.

There is no exemption for sports in Ireland.
No need to transition.
Gender is self declared.

http://www.teni.ie/page.aspx?contentid=586

Self-ID is ridiculous.
And the only ones losing out are women.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

https://twitter.com/nzolympics/status/1149879157465108483?s=21

So it begins.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

https://twitter.com/nzolympics/status/1149879157465108483?s=21

So it begins.

is it true the other category is open for male and female?

Potential-Monke

Jesus, even the ones who came 2nd and 3rd are turning away. The winner is a 41 year old trans woman who broke records in 1998 as a male lifter, and the girl in second wasn't even born then.

'The 41-year-old won with a total lift of 268kg in the women's 87kg category on Saturday. Samoans Feagaiga Stowers and Iuniana Sipaia took home silver and bronze with respective lifts of 261kg and 255kg... She represented New Zealand as Gavin Hubbard before she transitioned in her mid-30s.' https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/114222068/laurel-hubbard-wins-gold-at-pacific-games-after-losing-name-surpression-battle

Sir Oxman

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

https://twitter.com/nzolympics/status/1149879157465108483?s=21

So it begins.

Thievery aided and abetted by an idealogical cult who have managed to get their players in all the right places.
Only until the world wakes up to this utter nonsense.

BattleCorp

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

https://twitter.com/nzolympics/status/1149879157465108483?s=21

So it begins.

That sh1t just isn't right.