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Biological males in women's sport

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    #1772
    Paddy Cow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    Quantum Erasure wrote: »
    why the '/s' ?

    /s

    ?
    /sarcasm (it's in case anyone thinks it was serious).


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    #1773
    auspicious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    It's all about genetics right.
    Well this sport doesn't seem to mind.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ItWq4mO60-8


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    #1774
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,557 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    thats not genetics, thats years of practice... altough his testosterone levels may be artificially high with that amount of practice


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    #1775
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 10,081 ✭✭✭✭normanoffside


    Quantum Erasure wrote: »
    thats not genetics, thats years of practice... altough his testosterone levels may be artificially high with that amount of practice

    Actually it is genertics, he was born with a rare genetic defect making one arm much larger than normal.

    http://www.espn.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/11104741/meet-matthias-hellboy-schlitte-star-arm-wrestler-popeye-arm


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    #1776
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 18,483 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    What are you on about? Teenage boys compete at a level that can smash womens elite world record in most sports

    Women have their own sports because they fought for them and this shouldn't be just given away to appease a few men.

    I didn't use the argument that it should be to appease a few men, as things stand transgenders don't meet the criteria imo to compete with women, its political correctness gone mad Ted and all that. However, gendered sports is a construct, its not a moral choice so it can be changed.
    There is a Marathon on in Dublin this weekend, its not divided by gender and I doubt any women cares that it isn’t so its not like its such an odd concept. At the end of the day 99.9% of people who play sport are just competing against themselves or “people” of a similar level be they men or women

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #1777
    Hammer Archer
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,415 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hammer Archer


    silverharp wrote: »
    There is a Marathon on in Dublin this weekend, its not divided by gender and I doubt any women cares that it isn’t so its not like its such an odd concept. At the end of the day 99.9% of people who play sport are just competing against themselves or “people” of a similar level be they men or women
    Yes it is.... Everyone may run together but the results are divided by gender.


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    #1778
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 18,483 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Hammer Archer wrote: »
    Yes it is.... Everyone may run together but the results are divided by gender.

    you could slice it anyway you want , best Irishman, best Dubliner best masters time, it still doesn't matter for the other 99.9% of people taking part in it

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #1779
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    Paddy Cow wrote: »
    /sarcasm (it's in case anyone thinks it was serious).

    I'm glad. Ok nearly chocked on my banana while reading your earlier post :)


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    #1780
    Gynoid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Gynoid


    silverharp wrote: »
    However, gendered sports is a construct, its not a moral choice so it can be changed.

    A construct? That is the language of the relativist. If you look at it so oddly then everything that happens after you exit the womb could be said to be a construct, clothes, parental exclusiveness, family, schooling, society, art, civilisation. One way of demeaning or undermining anything is to casually call it a construct, as if it was a random choice among other equal choices. But things generally are not. History is old. Humankind is old. We dont construct foundational parameters, they are tried and tested over long periods of time. I would say that sporting category divided by sex actually is a moral choice - it wisely recognises inherent differences and fairness. And makes a moral choice.


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    #1781
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    silverharp wrote: »
    However, gendered sports is a construct, its not a moral choice so it can be changed

    is gender a construct?


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    #1782
    kildare lad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    silverharp wrote: »
    I didn't use the argument that it should be to appease a few men, as things stand transgenders don't meet the criteria imo to compete with women, its political correctness gone mad Ted and all that. However, gendered sports is a construct, its not a moral choice so it can be changed.
    There is a Marathon on in Dublin this weekend, its not divided by gender and I doubt any women cares that it isn’t so its not like its such an odd concept. At the end of the day 99.9% of people who play sport are just competing against themselves or “people” of a similar level be they men or women

    Do you think women athletes would care then if they got rid of women's and men's competitions and just had genderless ones ? Youd bet they'd care, Let's try it for a few years and see how they get on , you'd have no women on telly, they'd have no coverage at all, they'd earn no money and it'd be a waste of time they pursuing a career in sports.


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    #1783
    Sir Oxman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    Another success for women...
    https://twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1191401940061741057?s=20


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    #1784
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,839 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    silverharp wrote: »
    I didn't use the argument that it should be to appease a few men, as things stand transgenders don't meet the criteria imo to compete with women, its political correctness gone mad Ted and all that. However, gendered sports is a construct, its not a moral choice so it can be changed.
    There is a Marathon on in Dublin this weekend, its not divided by gender and I doubt any women cares that it isn’t so its not like its such an odd concept. At the end of the day 99.9% of people who play sport are just competing against themselves or “people” of a similar level be they men or women

    No, that isn't true, it is actually an outrageous claim.


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    #1785
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,557 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    The families of three female high school runners filed a federal lawsuit Wednesday seeking to block transgender athletes in Connecticut from participating in girls sports.

    https://apnews.com/8fd300537131153cc44e0cf2ade3244b

    represented by the conservative nonprofit organization Alliance Defending Freedom, they argue that allowing athletes with male anatomy to compete has deprived them of track titles and scholarship opportunities. “Forcing girls to be spectators in their own sports is completely at odds with Title IX, a federal law designed to create equal opportunities for women in education and athletics,” attorney Christiana Holcomb said. “Connecticut’s policy violates that law and reverses nearly 50 years of advances for women.”

    The lawsuit centers on two transgender sprinters, Terry Miller and Andraya Yearwood, who have frequently outperformed their cisgender competitors.

    The two seniors have combined to win 15 girls state indoor or outdoor championship races since 2017, according to the lawsuit.


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    #1786
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    It’s a shame that the move will likely be dismissed by many because it’s being funded by a conservative organisation. Those girls are very brave. I bet they have received all kind of hate for sticking their necks out.


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    #1787
    Limpy
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭Limpy


    The advertisers must be queing up to get those who have transitioned on the billboards showcasing there product's. Easy money for those champs. Fair play to them for (not) having the ball's to do it.


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    #1788
    pc7
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 14,121 Mod ✭✭✭✭pc7


    Limpy wrote: »
    The advertisers must be queing up to get those who have transitioned on the billboards showcasing there product's. Easy money for those champs. Fair play to them for (not) having the ball's to do it.




    Stunning and brave


    :D


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    #1789
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Quantum Erasure wrote: »
    The families of three female high school runners filed a federal lawsuit Wednesday seeking to block transgender athletes in Connecticut from participating in girls sports.

    https://apnews.com/8fd300537131153cc44e0cf2ade3244b

    represented by the conservative nonprofit organization Alliance Defending Freedom, they argue that allowing athletes with male anatomy to compete has deprived them of track titles and scholarship opportunities. “Forcing girls to be spectators in their own sports is completely at odds with Title IX, a federal law designed to create equal opportunities for women in education and athletics,” attorney Christiana Holcomb said. “Connecticut’s policy violates that law and reverses nearly 50 years of advances for women.”

    The lawsuit centers on two transgender sprinters, Terry Miller and Andraya Yearwood, who have frequently outperformed their cisgender competitors.

    The two seniors have combined to win 15 girls state indoor or outdoor championship races since 2017, according to the lawsuit.

    I’m very heartened to see the support these girls have been getting in comment sections around the web.


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    #1790
    peddlelies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 840 ✭✭✭peddlelies


    About time people started calling this for what it is. Human nature is a thing, and as such it would be naive to think that people won't abuse an opportunity for self gain.


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    #1791
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Meanwhile the left wing of the Labour Party over here in the UK is tearing itself apart over this issue. Yesterday it was all over the BBC and Politics Live, people signing up to some 11 point pledge filled with nonsense declarations about the trans issue while calling on anyone who disagrees with some aspects like transwomen in sports etc to be expelled. Feminist groups concerned with women's spaces etc are named and labelled in this document as "hate groups". Sections of the liberal left's wholesale support for utterly ridiculous situations like transwomen in elite sports or transitioned sex offenders being put in women's prisons is making a mockery of the left in the eyes of most normal people.

    We now have a situation where women on the left meeting to discuss gender and sex legislation are now being physically attacked, hounded and mobbed and that's now being given credence by senior Labour Party figures. The whole thing is an utter joke.


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    #1792
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Meanwhile the left wing of the Labour Party over here in the UK is tearing itself apart over this issue. Yesterday it was all over the BBC and Politics Live, people signing up to some 11 point pledge filled with nonsense declarations about the trans issue while calling on anyone who disagrees with some aspects like transwomen in sports etc to be expelled. Feminist groups concerned with women's spaces etc are named and labelled in this document as "hate groups". Sections of the liberal left's wholesale support for utterly ridiculous situations like transwomen in elite sports or transitioned sex offenders being put in women's prisons is making a mockery of the left in the eyes of most normal people.

    We now have a situation where women on the left meeting to discuss gender and sex legislation are now being physically attacked, hounded and mobbed and that's now being given credence by senior Labour Party figures. The whole thing is an utter joke.

    it must be utterly disheartening to be an ordinary Labour Party (or Dems in the US) member and see your party being hijacked by the most fringe extremist elements who rabidly espouse off the wall doctrines


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    #1793
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    To be honest, I’d actually be kind of glad if the Olympics featured transgender athletes (or those claiming to be) winning lots of things. A world stage is the best place to showcase the absurdity of the situation.


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    #1794
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    it must be utterly disheartening to be an ordinary Labour Party (or Dems in the US) member and see your party being hijacked by the most fringe extremist elements who rabidly espouse off the wall doctrines

    Dems in the US are rowing in behind Bernie who is speaking to people on an economic level. He talks about mass societal issues, industry and a fair deal. He can appeal to ordinary working people. Likewise, Corbyn’s policies regards nationalising rain and energy and supporting the NHS and raising wages were through the roof popular - the wheels only start come off when you have 24-year old student types couching everything in terms of “privilege” or demanding heads roll and blood is spilled for the crime of saying women have vaginas.

    The ironic thing is that while this stuff has taken prominence on some sections of the left (while being monetised by corporate capitalism at the same time), it has nothing to do with socialism. It is individualistic liberalism and it has become a really horrible dynamic in left groups.


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    #1795
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Meanwhile the left wing of the Labour Party over here in the UK is tearing itself apart over this issue. Yesterday it was all over the BBC and Politics Live, people signing up to some 11 point pledge filled with nonsense declarations about the trans issue while calling on anyone who disagrees with some aspects like transwomen in sports etc to be expelled. Feminist groups concerned with women's spaces etc are named and labelled in this document as "hate groups". Sections of the liberal left's wholesale support for utterly ridiculous situations like transwomen in elite sports or transitioned sex offenders being put in women's prisons is making a mockery of the left in the eyes of most normal people.

    We now have a situation where women on the left meeting to discuss gender and sex legislation are now being physically attacked, hounded and mobbed and that's now being given credence by senior Labour Party figures. The whole thing is an utter joke.

    Labour made their bed by letting themselves be taken over by radicals. The fact that Boris Johnson looked like a better prospect for government after 10+ years of the Tories in power tells you all you need to know.

    You see the same across in America, watching some of the democratic conventions and they have the pronoun parade followed by what triggers them. You can tell when your life is good when your biggest worry is some of the **** they come up with.

    Like you say you have predatory members of the community who are victimising woman, I cannot find the video but its been on here before where a lesbian was thanking a town committee for inviting her as she was kicked out of the LGBT event for turning down the advances of a trans woman. Not to mention allot of the high profile attempts to get kids to contact trans adults to by pass their parents.

    All it does is bit by bit build the alienation and the voices against them grows.


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    #1796
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    It’s a shame that the move will likely be dismissed by many because it’s being funded by a conservative organisation. Those girls are very brave. I bet they have received all kind of hate for sticking their necks out.

    It's an indictment of the left over in America that only a conservative organisation is willing to fund this.

    The identitarian left over there are so powerful yet unpopular. Just look at the Dems primary at the moment. The 3 most popular candidates last week were 2 moderates and an old-school left-winger, with Elizabeth Warren back in fourth. She was 3rd the week before.

    Clinton whose whole campaign was based on being female lost to Trump.


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    #1797
    ingalway
    Registered Users Posts: 654 ✭✭✭ingalway


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    it must be utterly disheartening to be an ordinary Labour Party (or Dems in the US) member and see your party being hijacked by the most fringe extremist elements who rabidly espouse off the wall doctrines
    The UK Labour party launched their Labour Campaign for Trans Rights (LCTR). It calls for Labour members to “organise and fight against transphobic organisations such as Woman’s Place UK, LGB Alliance and other trans-exclusionist hate groups”.

    Women's Place UK and LGB Alliance are groups who wish to talk about and raise concerns about womens single sex rights and LGB rights. Apparently women wanting to talk to each other are now "hate groups"
    Lisa Nandy, Rachel Long-Bailey and Emily Thornberry all support this. Keir Starmer won't say if he has signed it.

    Nandy said “safe spaces” for women should include trans women. So if you are a woman who has been raped and go to a shelter you must be OK to share that with a trans identifying male who could have any background. If you are in a female prison you must be OK with a convicted rapist who is now a trans identifying male being in that prison. If you are having a shower/getting changed in a swimming pool/gym you must be OK with a fully intact biological male being in there with you and any young girls must be OK with it - how could any young girl be OK with that? - Hospital wards, bathrooms, shop changing rooms.
    Elizabeth Warren has stated that if she is elected President of US that she will have a young trans person pick her Secretary of Education.
    It has gone insane and it's educated left wing women bending the knee to this madness


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    #1798
    Dante7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭Dante7


    Calhoun wrote: »
    Labour made their bed by letting themselves be taken over by radicals. The fact that Boris Johnson looked like a better prospect for government after 10+ years of the Tories in power tells you all you need to know.

    You see the same across in America, watching some of the democratic conventions and they have the pronoun parade followed by what triggers them. You can tell when your life is good when your biggest worry is some of the **** they come up with.

    Like you say you have predatory members of the community who are victimising woman, I cannot find the video but its been on here before where a lesbian was thanking a town committee for inviting her as she was kicked out of the LGBT event for turning down the advances of a trans woman. Not to mention allot of the high profile attempts to get kids to contact trans adults to by pass their parents.

    All it does is bit by bit build the alienation and the voices against them grows.

    I am always suspicious of men who argue for the removal of safeguards that have been put in place to protect women and children. I am even more suspicious when a lot of the same men also argue for children to be put on puberty blockers, which will retard a child's puberty and keep them looking young and childlike when they reach the age of consent for sexual activity.


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    #1799
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Sweet moses, look at number 5. “Patriarchal oppression”. I mean, I have issues with biological women leaning on that too much but somebody who has transitioned? Christ on a pushbike.

    148-E1102-A7-FC-43-DD-9-B8-B-3541-AE423-DF2.jpg?dl=1


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    #1800
    BloodBath
    Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    To be honest, I’d actually be kind of glad if the Olympics featured transgender athletes (or those claiming to be) winning lots of things. A world stage is the best place to showcase the absurdity of the situation.

    How was it ever allowed to happen. Total madness.


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    #1801
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    BloodBath wrote: »
    How was it ever allowed to happen. Total madness.

    Well, it will be allowed at the upcoming Olympics. The IOC kinda fucked up there. They tried to row back on the relaxed guidelines but didn’t get anywhere. It’s a clusterfuck.
    Plans by the International Olympic Committee to introduce stricter guidelines for transgender athletes before the Tokyo 2020 Games have run into the sand because its panel of scientists is struggling to reach agreement on such a thorny issue.

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2019/sep/24/ioc-delays-new-transgender-guidelines-2020-olympics


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