Biological males in women's sport

Gravelly

Mean Laqueefa wrote: »

**** you Jimmy, i identify as velodrome !

Would be worse if you identified as Dick Lane.

Oranage2

Crazy and unfair, there should be like a special special Olympics for these type of People.

Omackeral

DancingFlames wrote: »

I've never understood why we've segregated sports by gender anyway. Yes, people say that it has to do with men being "stronger" but then why do we segregate women from sports that don't require any physical contact like running or swimming? Why do we segregate women from sports that don't even require strength like golf or chess???

Try tennis as a litmus test.

An event dubbed a "Battle of the Sexes" took place during the 1998 Australian Open between Karsten Braasch and the Williams sisters. Venus and Serena Williams had claimed that they could beat any male player ranked outside the world's top 200, so Braasch, then ranked 203rd, challenged them both. Braasch was described by one journalist as "a man whose training regime centered around a pack of cigarettes and more than a couple bottles of ice cold lager". The matches took place on court number 12 in Melbourne Park, after Braasch had finished a round of golf and two shandies. He first took on Serena and after leading 5–0, beat her 6–1. Venus then walked on court and again Braasch was victorious, this time winning 6–2. Braasch said afterwards, "500 and above, no chance". He added that he had played like someone ranked 600th in order to keep the game "fun". Braasch said the big difference was that men can chase down shots much easier, and that men put spin on the ball that the women can't handle. The Williams sisters adjusted their claim to beating men outside the top 350.

2 Scoops

seamus wrote: »

You can't prove that. It's pure opinion.

Sweet jesus, is this what delusion looks like in it's finest form?

SEPT 23 1989

Real women must feel very uncomfortable with this nonsense

0cp71eyxkb94qf

This post has been deleted.

Zorya

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Real women must feel very uncomfortable with this nonsense

To be a little more serious responding to you - and I don't intend to speak for any other women bar myself. ...
I haven't hit on a concept yet that might convey something of how it might feel if this kind of thing was happening for men - it is a strange mix of honest amusement, foreboding, incredulity, and occasionally being downright pissed off.
It is not just about the sports stuff, though it's a good example as it is very visible.
Though it might be unpleasant to admit (or maybe even impermissible at this stage! what the hell do I know!) but women are the weaker sex in some ways ( I know this) and thus men as the stronger sex could never be threatened similarly - not that I can think of so far. I mean weaker physically and in some limited senses sociologically (in that, for example, we are more vulnerable when pregnant and raising infants, or we are more vulnerable to sexual assault, and we may struggle still against some remnants of historical disadvantage that silences decisive response, though these remnants are vastly over-stated).
From where I am looking there is an erasure going on, slow but steady. It creeps into public policy, cultural activities and administrative language. So on and so forth.
But the horrible irony is that a lot of it is part and parcel of radical feminism eating its own.

Anyways I'm sure other women may disagree...I am out of step in most things it seems.

Danzy

Zorya wrote: »

To be a little more serious responding to you - and I don't intend to speak for any other women bar myself. ...
I haven't hit on a concept yet that might convey something of how it might feel if this kind of thing was happening for men - it is a strange mix of honest amusement, foreboding, incredulity, and occasionally being downright pissed off.
It is not just about the sports stuff, though it's a good example as it is very visible.
Though it might be unpleasant to admit (or maybe even impermissible at this stage! what the hell do I know!) but women are the weaker sex in some ways ( I know this) and thus men as the stronger sex could never be threatened similarly - not that I can think of so far. I mean weaker physically and in some limited senses sociologically (in that, for example, we are more vulnerable when pregnant and raising infants, or we are more vulnerable to sexual assault, and we may struggle still against some remnants of historical disadvantage that silences decisive response, though these remnants are vastly over-stated).
From where I am looking there is an erasure going on, slow but steady. It creeps into public policy, cultural activities and administrative language. So on and so forth.
But the horrible irony is that a lot of it is part and parcel of radical feminism eating its own.

Anyways I'm sure other women may disagree...I am out of step in most things it seems.

Feminism has become a niche market, gone off on a tangent from most people.

ceadaoin.

Zorya wrote: »

To be a little more serious responding to you - and I don't intend to speak for any other women bar myself. ...
I haven't hit on a concept yet that might convey something of how it might feel if this kind of thing was happening for men - it is a strange mix of honest amusement, foreboding, incredulity, and occasionally being downright pissed off.
It is not just about the sports stuff, though it's a good example as it is very visible.
Though it might be unpleasant to admit (or maybe even impermissible at this stage! what the hell do I know!) but women are the weaker sex in some ways ( I know this) and thus men as the stronger sex could never be threatened similarly - not that I can think of so far. I mean weaker physically and in some limited senses sociologically (in that, for example, we are more vulnerable when pregnant and raising infants, or we are more vulnerable to sexual assault, and we may struggle still against some remnants of historical disadvantage that silences decisive response, though these remnants are vastly over-stated).
From where I am looking there is an erasure going on, slow but steady. It creeps into public policy, cultural activities and administrative language. So on and so forth.
But the horrible irony is that a lot of it is part and parcel of radical feminism eating its own.

Anyways I'm sure other women may disagree...I am out of step in most things it seems.

People who stand up to this are called the radical feminists ("terfs", you're probably one now to some people after your above post) And youre right, it's not just about sports. its the erasure of women and women's rights. On the back of trans rights activism we have had:

- women physically assaulted by males for attending meetings about proposed "self ID" in the UK
-venues of said meetings receiving bomb threats
- masked people trying to prevent women entering these meetings
- women being told en masse that they should die/get raped/burned and failing that, suck a dick (preferably a lady one).
-males holding "women's officer" positions in one UK political party and taking up places on all women shortlists
- women in prison and homeless/domestic violence shelters assaulted and sexually harrassed by males
-the dictionary definition of "woman" being deemed hate speech


Its clear that there is a strong thread of misogyny running through this movement that seems to hold a lot of sway politically and socially, far more than what plain old women have.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Danzy wrote: »

Feminism has become a niche market, gone off on a tangent from most people.

The whole trans ideology undercut a lot of existing feminism.

Danzy

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The whole trans ideology undercut a lot of existing feminism.

Think that was a symptom rather than a cause.

Intersectionality is another Chicken, egg argument there.

Who cares though

A sad inditement when feminism has no relevance to most women.

ceadaoin.

Also, a poster earlier was on about doing research into whether trans women have advantages over women or not.

Well apart from the fact that we can see with our own eyes that they do, if any research proves this it will be deemed transphobic and anyone who puts their name to it will have their livelihood threatened. Here is a letter,in the guardian of all places, from academics who are sick of having their work suppressed by activists. When did this level of totalitarianism become acceptable?

We represent a newly formed network of over 100 academics, most of whom are currently employed in UK universities. We are concerned, from a range of academic perspectives, about proposed governmental reforms to the Gender Recognition Act, and their interaction with the Equality Act.

Our subject areas include: sociology, philosophy, law, criminology, evidence-informed policy, medicine, psychology, education, history, English, social work, computer science, cognitive science, anthropology, political science, economics, and history of art. This week, following an opportunity offered to us by Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne, we have submitted to the consultation a number of letters, outlining, as individuals, concerns about the introduction of self-ID for gender reassignment.

We are also concerned about the suppression of proper academic analysis and discussion of the social phenomenon of transgenderism, and its multiple causes and effects. Members of our group have experienced campus protests, calls for dismissal in the press, harassment, foiled plots to bring about dismissal, no-platforming, and attempts to censor academic research and publications. Such attacks are out of line with the ordinary reception of critical ideas in the academy, where it is normally accepted that disagreement is reasonable and even productive.

Many of our universities have close links with trans advocacy organisations who provide “training” of academics and management, and who, it is reasonable to suppose, influence university policy through these links. Definitions used by these organisations of what counts as “transphobic” can be dangerously all-encompassing and go well beyond what a reasonable law would describe. They would not withstand academic analysis, and yet their effect is to curtail academic freedom and facilitate the censoring of academic work. We also worry about the effect of such definitions on the success rates of journal submissions and research grant applications from governmental bodies such as the AHRC and ESRC.

We maintain that it is not transphobic to investigate and analyse this area from a range of critical academic perspectives. We think this research is sorely needed, and urge the government to take the lead in protecting any such research from ideologically driven attack.

Danzy

ceadaoin. wrote: »

People who stand up to this are called the radical feminists ("terfs", you're probably one now to some people after your above post) And youre right, it's not just about sports. its the erasure of women and women's rights. On the back of trans rights activism we have had:

- women physically assaulted by males for attending meetings about proposed "self ID" in the UK
-venues of said meetings receiving bomb threats
- masked people trying to prevent women entering these meetings
- women being told en masse that they should die/get raped/burned and failing that, suck a dick (preferably a lady one).
-males holding "women's officer" positions in one UK political party and taking up places on all women shortlists
- women in prison and homeless/domestic violence shelters assaulted and sexually harrassed by males
-the dictionary definition of "woman" being deemed hate speech


Its clear that there is a strong thread of misogyny running through this movement that seems to hold a lot of sway politically and socially, far more than what plain old women have.

It is more of a F u, what you going to do about it.

The opposition, the fight is the thing, being able to condemn people as sinners who must be excommunicated, that is where the thrill is for them.

The cause or reason will be made fit.

FTA69

ceadaoin. wrote: »

People who stand up to this are called the radical feminists ("terfs", you're probably one now to some people after your above post) And youre right, it's not just about sports. its the erasure of women and women's rights. On the back of trans rights activism we have had:

- women physically assaulted by males for attending meetings about proposed "self ID" in the UK
-venues of said meetings receiving bomb threats
- masked people trying to prevent women entering these meetings
- women being told en masse that they should die/get raped/burned and failing that, suck a dick (preferably a lady one).
-males holding "women's officer" positions in one UK political party and taking up places on all women shortlists
- women in prison and homeless/domestic violence shelters assaulted and sexually harrassed by males
-the dictionary definition of "woman" being deemed hate speech


Its clear that there is a strong thread of misogyny running through this movement that seems to hold a lot of sway politically and socially, far more than what plain old women have.

These people are a small, small minority of the trans community but everything you’ve said above is largely true. The incident of the woman being assaulted for attending a meeting happened to a good friend of mine, shouted and roared and bullied off her own picket line during a strike.

Zorya

Danzy wrote: »

It is more of a F u, what you going to do about it.

The opposition, the fight is the thing, being able to condemn people as sinners who must be excommunicated, that is where the thrill is for them.

The cause or reason will be made fit.

I don't know anymore if it is that, a f u so to speak. I think there has genuinely been indoctrination, inculcating of serious ideology, and that all expression of question or disagreement or attempt to interrogate the wider implications of this ideology is experienced as a monstrous shock amounting to a revulsion for what appears as intolerable bigotry and hatred. It seems to be genuinely felt. It's quite sad in a way, this great gulf.

ceadaoin.

FTA69 wrote: »

These people are a small, small minority of the trans community but everything you’ve said above is largely true. The incident of the woman being assaulted for attending a meeting happened to a good friend of mine, shouted and roared and bullied off her own picket line during a strike.

Yes, they are a minority but a very vocal one. They shut down and abuse other trans people who speak out too. The problem is that these extremists are the ones with all the influence. How did this even happen?

Sorry that happened to your friend. I remember reading about it, abused just because someone recognised her from a previous unrelated meeting. How horrible it must of been for her.

Another woman was physically assaulted outside one of the meetings and that case ended up in court.

Danzy

Zorya wrote: »

I don't know anymore if it is that, a f u so to speak. I think there has genuinely been indoctrination, inculcating of serious ideology, and that all expression of question or disagreement or attempt to interrogate the wider implications of this ideology is experienced as a monstrous shock amounting to a revulsion for what appears as intolerable bigotry and hatred. It seems to be genuinely felt. It's quite sad in a way, this great gulf.

More eloquently put.

I do think that will there is a Pseudo academic thinking behind all this, an indoctrination, that much of it is driven by oppositional behaviour.

Call out the sinner, burn the witch.

There is a thrill and a safety in witch hunting, a sense of power and if you are burning the witch, no one questions you or your insecurities.

Maybe that was for the starting people, now it is just rote learnt.

Danzy

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Yes, they are a minority but a very vocal one. They shut down and abuse other trans people who speak out too. The problem is that these extremists are the ones with all the influence. How did this even happen?

Sorry that happened to your friend. I remember reading about it, abused just because someone recognised her from a previous unrelated meeting. How horrible it must of been for her.

Another woman was physically assaulted outside one of the meetings and that case ended up in court.

If out of 50 people, you have 5 assholes who organize and are willing to attack others,physically or otherwise, they get to the top, attention wise.

Noveight

Danzy wrote: »

More eloquently put.

I do think that will there is a Pseudo academic thinking behind all this, an indoctrination, that much of it is driven by oppositional behaviour.

Call out the sinner, burn the witch.

There is a thrill and a safety in witch hunting, a sense of power and if you are burning the witch, no one questions you or your insecurities.

Maybe that was for the starting people, now it is just rote learnt.

Interesting analysis. Excellent food for thought.

Danzy

Noveight wrote: »

Interesting analysis. Excellent food for thought.

Crap, you just made me Hungry.

FTA69

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Yes, they are a minority but a very vocal one. They shut down and abuse other trans people who speak out too. The problem is that these extremists are the ones with all the influence. How did this even happen?

Sorry that happened to your friend. I remember reading about it, abused just because someone recognised her from a previous unrelated meeting. How horrible it must of been for her.

Another woman was physically assaulted outside one of the meetings and that case ended up in court.

The same muppet was involved in both and has “terfkiller” in her Facebook profile name. F*cking wrong un.

The woman who was shouted off the picket is a lifelong feminist who runs a martial arts club with women coaches. It’s insane like.

drkpower

Wibbs wrote: »

Would it be "transphobic" of me to state that male to female trans can't get pregnant and carry a foetus to term, or that a female to male trans is incapable of becoming a biological father?
.

you will need 20 years of data to prove that obviously....

ceadaoin.

FTA69 wrote: »

The same muppet was involved in both and has “terfkiller” in her Facebook profile name. F*cking wrong un.

The woman who was shouted off the picket is a lifelong feminist who runs a martial arts club with women coaches. It’s insane like.

Jesus, I didn't know the person was involved in both incidents. That's scary, they are clearly a danger to women.

Your friend sounds like a great person btw!

2 Scoops

Danzy wrote: »

I do think that will there is a Pseudo academic thinking behind all this, an indoctrination, that much of it is driven by oppositional behaviour.

Totally agree, but I also think human nature plays a part. Some people who are struggling socially may see it as an opportunity to join a protected group where they cannot be questioned. Others may do it for power and control over people. When I see that cyclist tweeting non stop for recognition from news agencies it makes me think. Forcing pronouns down peoples throats is part of it. Many call it part of a postmodernism doctrine.

Just to add a disclaimer, I'm not saying all trans people are phonies or anything to close it. I hope people who genuinely feel in their mind they are the wrong sex get the help they need.

Danzy

2 Scoops wrote: »

Totally agree, but I also think human nature plays a part. Some people will who are struggling socially may see it as an opportunity to join a protected group where they cannot be questioned. Others may do it for power and control over people. Forcing pronouns down peoples throats is part of it. Many call it part of a post modernism doctrine.

Just to add a disclaimer, I'm not saying all trans people are phonies or anything to close it. I hope people who genuinely feel in their mind they are the wrong sex get the help they need.

Most of the worst of them aren't even trans.

I am reminded of that Pet Shop Boys song "It's a sin".

The activist class don't care, heresy must be exterminated.

Your argument is reasonable but if you said that in public you could have a mob at your door.

Intimidation and threat is being used to ensure group think, right speech.
Pretending that is progressive is just their self indulgence.

Well to do kids looking for a cause has a ring of truth about many modern activists.

autumn2018

interesting case in a uni in australia recently
the lefty commies passed a rule that 1 seat on the students union board of 9 must be female,
which essentially guaranteed the 5th seat, the swing seat to a female, ie a leftie
at the 11th hour the conservative (male)head of the students union self-identified as a female, took the seat and the left couldn't argue as they had made up the self-identity rules themselves

2 Scoops

Danzy wrote: »

Most of the worst of them aren't even trans.

I'm always reminded of this clip. Basically Shapiro goes on a CNN show and there's a transgender Woman who ends up grabbing him around the neck and says I'll see you in the parking lot after the show. Meanwhile Shapiro is outnumbered 6 to 1 trying to debate them. I only wish he'd said "that's not very lady like" after that person grabbed him.

Danzy

autumn2018 wrote: »

interesting case in a uni in australia recently
the lefty commies passed a rule that 1 seat on the students union board of 9 must be female,
which essentially guaranteed the 5th seat, the swing seat to a female, ie a leftie
at the 11th hour the conservative head of the students union self-identified as a female, took the seat and the left couldn't argue as they had made up the self-identity rules themselves

Women are only so slightly more left than men.

That withstanding when you indulge b.s. like that it will turn on you.

ceadaoin.

2 Scoops wrote: »

When I see that cyclist tweeting non stop for recognition from news agencies it makes me think. Forcing pronouns down peoples throats is part of it. Many call it part of a postmodernism doctrine.

This. Like she genuinely doesn't seem to see that most people don't think a biological male beating a load of women is a good thing, won't even entertain the notion. One of her defenders is telling people to "**** off and die". You are either fawning over her telling her she's amazing or you're a bigot. It's that black and white. It's like a cult

Danzy

2 Scoops wrote: »

I'm always reminded of this clip. Basically Shapiro goes on a CNN show and there's a transgender Woman who ends up grabbing him around the neck and says I'll see you in the parking lot after the show. Meanwhile Shapiro is outnumbered 5 to 1 trying to debate them. I only wish he'd said "that's not very lady like" after that person grabbed him.

I don't like Shapiro and his libertarian take, libertarians reject culture, identity, society every bit as much as Communists do.

His ability to draw out and handle psychotics like this create respect though.

It's a hell of a vid and shows why he is so known and he was right in this.

That said outside of his libertarian views he is often right and points out the Emperor is naked. I respect him but agree on much but am politically opposed to.