How can I build muscle without meat?

Markgc

I haven't lifted weights in ten years and would like to restart and get big and strong but red meat from cows is pumped with antibiotics and pork is packed with cholesterol and saturated fat. But primarily not at the expense of an animal's life.

Can anyone point me to a good vegan guide or regime?

Regards
Markgc

Sandor Clegane

There are so many videos on Youtube of vegan bodybuilders, athletes who do these what i eat in a day videos, you can get some good ideas for meals off them.

Eat more oats, quinoa, beans, lentils, soy products etc..

Protein is really a non issue and you can easily hit your numbers on a vegan diet if thats the route you want to go down.

muppetshow1451

Loads of protein in seafood.

Mooooo

Pumped with antibiotics...... 😑 Irish and European agri products have the highest standards in the world you'll be safe enough if you stick to them

chatterbox

Hi, I've a similar goal to the original poster. does anyone have a workout plan and vegan or veggie food plan that I could use as a basis for my plan. Just looking for a starting point in which I can alter.

Unicrons Dad

I have nothing against a person choosing a vegan lifestyle based on their moral views regarding killing animals for food but any vegan that chooses not to eat meat because of health reasons is down right wrong. The body is designed to eat meat and a high fat diet. What do you think we did in caveman days we went out hunted and killed an animal because a fatty meaty animal will give you the most bang for your buck energy wise.Think of our energy reserve system. What is it? Yep thats right fat and cholestrol so if a fat vegan goes on a diet a big part of their diet will be fat and cholestrol from their own body . By the way even though fatty meat is healthy pork is one of the leanest meats around

seefin

I take vegan bcca supplement just to be sure I hit my protein targets for weightlifting. Taste vile but I'm getting used to it. Just put in a proteon scoop with some juice and spoon it out as it doesn't mix well.

Grateful Dread

Hmmmm. There’s a lot of misinformation here.

Check out the vegan fitness subreddit here - www.reddit.com/r/veganfitness

At least you’ll be able to ask a question without being lectured to by pseudoscientists.

Also, since when the f*ck is fish not made of meat!?!

Unicrons Dad

Grateful Dread wrote: »

Hmmmm. There’s a lot of misinformation here.

Check out the vegan fitness subreddit here - www.reddit.com/r/veganfitness

At least you’ll be able to ask a question without being lectured to by pseudoscientists.

Also, since when the f*ck is fish not made of meat!?!

Lol

Grateful Dread

Unicrons Dad wrote: »

Lol

Thought as much.

Alf Veedersane

Markgc wrote: »

I haven't lifted weights in ten years and would like to restart and get big and strong but red meat from cows is pumped with antibiotics and pork is packed with cholesterol and saturated fat. But primarily not at the expense of an animal's life.

Can anyone point me to a good vegan guide or regime?

Regards
Markgc

Yes once you're consuming enough calories and consuming enough protein.

There are lots of lists of the protein content of vegan foods if you Google so shouldn't be an issue.

Clarence Kennedy did a video on a typical day for him (he's also a vegan);

Tar.Aldarion

^^^ very good video by Harry Squatter there.

The reddit vegan fitness forum posted above is very good too, have a read there or ask questions: www.reddit.com/r/veganfitness
There's a lot of vegan bodybuilders/strongmen/NFL/NBA players that should have some info of what they eat online.

Patrik Baboumian has done talks in Ireland a good few times and should be back.

s7ryf3925pivug

Cooked quinoa is less than 5% protein.
You do need to pay attention to your protein intake if you are newly vegan. You're unlikely to meet moderate protein requirements otherwise.
Plenty of vegans achieve impressive musculature, but they will all have paid proper attention to their diet in the process.

Markgc

Unicrons Dad wrote: »

I have nothing against a person choosing a vegan lifestyle based on their moral views regarding killing animals for food but any vegan that chooses not to eat meat because of health reasons is down right wrong. The body is designed to eat meat and a high fat diet. What do you think we did in caveman days we went out hunted and killed an animal because a fatty meaty animal will give you the most bang for your buck energy wise.Think of our energy reserve system. What is it? Yep thats right fat and cholestrol so if a fat vegan goes on a diet a big part of their diet will be fat and cholestrol from their own body . By the way even though fatty meat is healthy pork is one of the leanest meats around

We are not cavemen anymore.
"A whole foods vegan diet not only reduces your risk of cardiovascular disease, but it can also lower your risk of other chronic diseases of affluence, like cancer and diabetes. Now that is reason for a celebratory vegan bran muffin!"
http://www.yourdailyvegan.com/2013/06/do-i-need-to-worry-about-my-cholesterol-levels-as-a-vegan/

Pigs are more intelligent than dogs fyi.
Do you not think they know something terrible is going on when parked outside a slaughterhouse?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6alCSO6kkzY
"These beings were killed on March 30th, 2015. They were terrified and screaming. Imagine being packed into a transport truck with other people and hearing screams from the trucks ahead of you. You might not know exactly what is coming (although sometimes you can smell the blood and singed hair from the kill floor and hear others being killed) but you know it's something terrifying. Waterloo Wellington Animal Save captured this video at a vigil for the pigs being killed at Conestoga Meat Packers near Kitchener, Ontario, Canada. There were 7 trucks in an hour and a half.

The Save Movement has spread worldwide. Please join a group to bear witness or if one doesn't exist in your area, start one. Please stand up for them. Live a vegan life.

Video shot by Amary Nicolau and Bethany Karn
Editing by Bethany Karn

Save Groups Worldwide: http://www.torontopigsave.org/links/
WWAS on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/wwanimalsave
Go Vegan: http://www.torontopigsave.org/go-vegan/

Would your kids be happy to eat meat if you showed them that video?
If we can't nuture and protect our fellow beings how can we expect to care for one another? We currently don't. World society is broke. Let's fix it for our future generations.

https://www.google.ie/search?q=new+zealand+should+public+attempt+to+hide+dead+dolphins+and+penguins+from+public&client=ms-android-h3g-ie&prmd=ivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi34eLO1tDZAhUBIsAKHaSbB8wQ_AUIESgB&biw=360&bih=560#imgrc=oUW2DLsA9ddYnM:

Markgc

.

s7ryf3925pivug

Vegan diets lower your risk of some cancers but increase your risk of others. Reducing consumption of red meat and animal fat reduces cardiovascular risk. You can do that without being vegan.

There are compelling ethical arguments for veganism. It's a viable choice for most people if they put their mind to it. I think it undermines these facts to cherry pick and pretend there are compelling health reasons to adopt the diet though.

Sandor Clegane

Crosby Early Performer wrote: »

Vegan diets lower your risk of some cancers but increase your risk of others. Reducing consumption of red meat and animal fat reduces cardiovascular risk. You can do that without being vegan.

There are compelling ethical arguments for veganism. It's a viable choice for most people if they put their mind to it. I think it undermines these facts to cherry pick and pretend there are compelling health reasons to adopt the diet though.

Example?

s7ryf3925pivug

Thyroid cancer, I think because of lower iodine consumption

Unicrons Dad

Markgc wrote: »

We are not cavemen anymore.
"A whole foods vegan diet not only reduces your risk of cardiovascular disease, but it can also lower your risk of other chronic diseases of affluence, like cancer and diabetes. Now that is reason for a celebratory vegan bran muffin!"
http://www.yourdailyvegan.com/2013/06/do-i-need-to-worry-about-my-cholesterol-levels-as-a-vegan/

Pigs are more intelligent than dogs fyi.
Do you not think they know something terrible is going on when parked outside a slaughterhouse?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6alCSO6kkzY
"These beings were killed on March 30th, 2015. They were terrified and screaming. Imagine being packed into a transport truck with other people and hearing screams from the trucks ahead of you. You might not know exactly what is coming (although sometimes you can smell the blood and singed hair from the kill floor and hear others being killed) but you know it's something terrifying. Waterloo Wellington Animal Save captured this video at a vigil for the pigs being killed at Conestoga Meat Packers near Kitchener, Ontario, Canada. There were 7 trucks in an hour and a half.

The Save Movement has spread worldwide. Please join a group to bear witness or if one doesn't exist in your area, start one. Please stand up for them. Live a vegan life.

Video shot by Amary Nicolau and Bethany Karn
Editing by Bethany Karn

Save Groups Worldwide: http://www.torontopigsave.org/links/
WWAS on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/wwanimalsave
Go Vegan: http://www.torontopigsave.org/go-vegan/

Would your kids be happy to eat meat if you showed them that video?
If we can't nuture and protect our fellow beings how can we expect to care for one another? We currently don't. World society is broke. Let's fix it for our future generations.

https://www.google.ie/search?q=new+zealand+should+public+attempt+to+hide+dead+dolphins+and+penguins+from+public&client=ms-android-h3g-ie&prmd=ivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi34eLO1tDZAhUBIsAKHaSbB8wQ_AUIESgB&biw=360&bih=560#imgrc=oUW2DLsA9ddYnM:

No I'm not a caveman but don't you think nature gets things right, I mean imagine trying to be a vegan in Ireland back then, what would you have to eat, its easy to be a vegan with your dogmatic views in modern industrialised society, we have lots of foods from lots of different countries but these is a very recent luxury in terms of the history of human beings on this planet, think about it imagine a vegan diet without foods from other countries, bottom line if early human beings were supposed to eat vegan we wouldn't be around today

Blacktie.

Unicrons Dad wrote:

No I'm not a caveman but don't you think nature gets things right, I mean imagine trying to be a vegan in Ireland back then, what would you have to eat, its easy to be a vegan with your dogmatic views in modern industrialised society, we have lots of foods from lots of different countries but these is a very recent luxury in terms of the history of human beings on this planet, think about it imagine a vegan diet without foods from other countries, bottom line if early human beings were supposed to eat vegan we wouldn't be around today

In fairness just because we ate a certain way before doesn't mean it was optimal. Far from it. And I think most people follow the vegan route for. More ethical reasons.

mathie

Unicrons Dad wrote: »

No I'm not a caveman but don't you think nature gets things right, I mean imagine trying to be a vegan in Ireland back then, what would you have to eat, its easy to be a vegan with your dogmatic views in modern industrialised society, we have lots of foods from lots of different countries but these is a very recent luxury in terms of the history of human beings on this planet, think about it imagine a vegan diet without foods from other countries, bottom line if early human beings were supposed to eat vegan we wouldn't be around today

We also used to die a lot earlier.

Tar.Aldarion

Unicrons Dad wrote: »

No I'm not a caveman but don't you think nature gets things right, I mean imagine trying to be a vegan in Ireland back then, what would you have to eat, its easy to be a vegan with your dogmatic views in modern industrialised society, we have lots of foods from lots of different countries but these is a very recent luxury in terms of the history of human beings on this planet, think about it imagine a vegan diet without foods from other countries, bottom line if early human beings were supposed to eat vegan we wouldn't be around today

There is no "meant to" or "designed", people ate what kept them alive, whatever calories they could get, those that could eat survived. There is nothing to say what we ate is what we now optimally should eat. That's essentially an appeal to nature. It was often the case that something bad for you in one way was carried in your genes if it had a positive affect that kept you alive. All evolution is is successfully having children. Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind is a great book if you want to read about our history (in a slightly sensationalist way as some of it is wrong).

Alf Veedersane

The OP has said the primary reason is an ethical one...

ford2600

https://sigmanutrition.com/episode133/

Inform yourself, this podcast is a good start.

If training intensely you need to be smart if on a vegan diet.

Sandor Clegane

ford2600 wrote: »

https://sigmanutrition.com/episode133/

Inform yourself, this podcast is a good start.

If training intensely you need to be smart if on a vegan diet.

That was a good podcast, well worth a listen.

Dakota Dan

Mooooo wrote: »

Pumped with antibiotics...... �� Irish and European agri products have the highest standards in the world you'll be safe enough if you stick to them

He's obviously watching too many vegan youtube videos :mad:

Markgc

The thread has wandered a bit. Thanks for replies even though I don't agree with all. You're entilted to your opinions.

But the thing is, we as a global civilisation are supposed to have highly developed morally, socially/intellectually and ethically in the last few hundred years; fifty years especially; never mind thirty thousand years.

We have grown in many ways. It's been said oh we have to eat meat because that's the way it always been. Well all those years ago adult men had sex with children. It was okay then as it was the norm but we as a people have grown beyond it today. We now know it is downright abominable.
To butcher animals by the millions daily is also abominable when we have the intellect and capability to source our nutrition through other methods.
Animals are the innocent children of today and we need to treat them with the utmost respect they are surely entilted to if humanity is to progress in any positive way.

Alf Veedersane

Markgc wrote: »

The thread has wandered a bit. Thanks for replies even though I don't agree with all. You're entilted to your opinions.

But the thing is, we as a global civilisation are supposed to have highly developed morally, socially/intellectually and ethically in the last few hundred years; fifty years especially; never mind thirty thousand years.

We have grown in many ways. It's been said oh we have to eat meat because that's the way it always been. Well all those years ago adult men had sex with children. It was okay then as it was the norm but we as a people have grown beyond it today. We now know it is downright abominable.
To butcher animals by the millions daily is also abominable when we have the intellect and capability to source our nutrition through other methods.
Animals are the innocent children of today and we need to treat them with the utmost respect they are surely entilted to if humanity is to progress in any positive way.

We can agree to disagree without resorting to arguments like adult men had sex with children once upon a time and animals are innocent children.

Markgc

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

We can agree to disagree without resorting to arguments like adult men had sex with children once upon a time and animals are innocent children.

No way can we agree to disagree. Anyone in the Western World whom eats animals is wholly ignorant and unempathetic to their right to life.

Life is very vivid to animals. In many cases they know who they are. They know who their friends are and who their rivals are. They have ambitions for higher status. They compete. Their lives follow the arc of a career, like ours do. We both try to stay alive, get food and shelter, and raise some young for the next generation. Animals are no different from us in that regard and I think that their presence here on Earth is tremendously enriching.

Current research provides compelling evidence that at least some animals likely feel a full range of emotions, including fear, joy, happiness, shame, embarrassment, resentment, jealousy, rage, anger, love, pleasure, compassion, respect, relief, disgust, sadness, despair, and grief (Skutch 1996, Poole 1996, 1998, Panksepp 1998, Archer 1999, Cabanac 1999, Bekoff 2000).

Alf Veedersane

Markgc wrote: »

No way can we agree to disagree. Anyone in the Western World whom eats animals is wholly ignorant and unempathetic to their right to life.

Life is very vivid to animals. In many cases they know who they are. They know who their friends are and who their rivals are. They have ambitions for higher status. They compete. Their lives follow the arc of a career, like ours do. We both try to stay alive, get food and shelter, and raise some young for the next generation. Animals are no different from us in that regard and I think that their presence here on Earth is tremendously enriching.

Current research provides compelling evidence that at least some animals likely feel a full range of emotions, including fear, joy, happiness, shame, embarrassment, resentment, jealousy, rage, anger, love, pleasure, compassion, respect, relief, disgust, sadness, despair, and grief (Skutch 1996, Poole 1996, 1998, Panksepp 1998, Archer 1999, Cabanac 1999, Bekoff 2000).

I don't think you understand the concept of agreeing to disagree.

You have your strongly held beliefs and I enjoy eating meat. We will never agree and you will never think I right and will always think I'm ignorant.

And I will always enjoy meat well seasoned and well cooked. Though not well done.

Markgc

We cannot enrich humanities experience on this planet by continuing to destroy life surrounding us.

Alf Veedersane

Markgc wrote: »

We cannot enrich humanities experience on this planet by continuing to destroy life surrounding us.

Cool story.

Again, agree to disagree.

Markgc

Eating meat hardens blood vessels.
Livestock production impacts the planet in a huge way.
Eating meat ups your risk of type 2 diabetes.
Meat puts your colon and brain at risk.
Meat is chock full of harmful hormones.
Red meats are high in saturated fat, which raises blood cholesterol.

Let's agree to disagree.

Tar.Aldarion

Markgc wrote: »

Eating meat hardens blood vessels.
Livestock production impacts the planet in a huge way.
Eating meat ups your risk of type 2 diabetes.
Meat puts your colon and brain at risk.
Meat is chock full of harmful hormones.
Red meats are high in saturated fat, which raises blood cholesterol.

Let's agree to disagree.

Health concerns are the least relevant of the reasons for being vegan, debating with a style like that is also not cogent to getting somebody to listen to you. Veganism is about compassion and you won't change the minds and hearts of people without it. Sure it is awful that feeling , sentient beings are hurt and killed and that can make you angry but people are raised to think these things are ok by society and that is hard to change even though it may appear silly to you. People are already on the defensive since we are basically telling them they are wrong, arguing like just makes them moreso. There is a good book on being a pragmatic vegan here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Create-Vegan-World-Pragmatic/dp/1590565703/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1520127483&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=tobias+leinhert
His blog: http://veganstrategist.org/


There was a video I saw recently that I think you'll like about aforementioned societal norms, it's about a society where raping women is still accepted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poxl0K9UrP0

Getting very off topic now but I believe you got your answers :P

Rodin

Markgc wrote: »

I haven't lifted weights in ten years and would like to restart and get big and strong but red meat from cows is pumped with antibiotics and pork is packed with cholesterol and saturated fat. But primarily not at the expense of an animal's life.

Can anyone point me to a good vegan guide or regime?

Regards
Markgc

How does a gorilla build muscle?
They're herbivores and they'd kick your ass.

gctest50

Rodin wrote: »

How does a gorilla build muscle?
They're herbivores and they'd kick your ass.

Daft line of arguing


Humans and our daycent meat-eatin' friends the leopard are what preys on gorillas

Kick your ass ? Harambe n friends won't outrun your bullet

Gorillas destroy our crops and they are vicious animals', the authors were
told last December in Gabon, where they were investigating the status of gorillas and chimpanzees. Gorillas can be shot on sight, and both animals are killed for meat. Gabon people are predominantly rural, and because they are so dependent on the forests for food, it may be that the Government will preserve these, and with them the wildlife, despite impending large-scale development.
In every village in which we stopped and enquired, gorilla skulls were proudly produced by the local people. One restaurant owned by a Frenchman not only
had three gorilla heads mounted on its walls, but also a captive juvenile gorilla in a chicken coop in the back yard. 'Could we easily buy a young gorilla or chimpanzee ourselves?' we asked. 'No trouble at all: adults are being killed all the time in retaliation for crop-raiding and as food. If the young are not captured, they simply starve on the body of their dead mother.'

Rodin

gctest50 wrote: »

Daft line of arguing


Humans and our daycent meat-eatin' friends the leopard are what preys on gorillas

Kick your ass ? Harambe n friends won't outrun your bullet

You're confusing building muscle with building a brain.
If you want to build muscle you can be a vegetarian like a gorilla.
If you want to build a brain, read some books.

Markgc

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Health concerns are the least relevant of the reasons for being vegan, debating with a style like that is also not cogent to getting somebody to listen to you. Veganism is about compassion and you won't change the minds and hearts of people without it. Sure it is awful that feeling , sentient beings are hurt and killed and that can make you angry but people are raised to think these things are ok by society and that is hard to change even though it may appear silly to you. People are already on the defensive since we are basically telling them they are wrong, arguing like just makes them moreso. There is a good book on being a pragmatic vegan here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Create-Vegan-World-Pragmatic/dp/1590565703/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1520127483&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=tobias+leinhert
His blog: http://veganstrategist.org/


There was a video I saw recently that I think you'll like about aforementioned societal norms, it's about a society where raping women is still accepted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poxl0K9UrP0

Getting very off topic now but I believe you got your answers :P

Cheers pal I know. I had plenty of earlier arguments on previous page but it's a long exasperating debate. No changing minds in a day. Nice educated people but blind to the facts.

s7ryf3925pivug

Markgc wrote: »

Eating meat hardens blood vessels.
Livestock production impacts the planet in a huge way.
Eating meat ups your risk of type 2 diabetes.
Meat puts your colon and brain at risk.
Meat is chock full of harmful hormones.
Red meats are high in saturated fat, which raises blood cholesterol.

Let's agree to disagree.

It doesn’t raise your risk of type 2 diabetes. If you are at risk of type 2 diabetes you might be advised to eat more meat. Fat and protein reduce blood sugar spikes after eating. Meat makes you feel full so it’s easier to get lean.

Not all meat hardens blood vessels.

I’m guessing the brain thing is wrong too. Slightly related - Roundup exposure looks like it can cause brain cancer, so don’t eat GM soy.

You can eat healthy with or without abstaining from meat or animal products. It’s less hassle to do so without abstaining from either.

100% agree with the environmental impact aspect though. It’s especially true with beef.

Mellor

Some awful logic and reasoning in this thread. On both sides. Well done lads.

ford2600

Mellor wrote: »

Some awful logic and reasoning in this thread. On both sides. Well done lads.

Vegans who wish to convert people are fundamentally tied to a belief system rather than logic.

Everything must fit to a set of beliefs, very similar mindset to any evangelical religion.

I had thought OP was genuine so posted a link to a very worthwhile podcast. If I had known OP was just a ruse I wouldn't have bothered; for the same reason I wouldn't discuss evolution with a firm believer in the Old Book

gozunda

Markgc wrote: »

The thread has wandered a bit. Thanks for replies even though I don't agree with all. You're entilted to your opinions.But the thing is, we as a global civilisation are supposed to have highly developed morally, socially/intellectually and ethically in the last few hundred years; fifty years especially; never mind thirty thousand years.We have grown in many ways. It's been said oh we have to eat meat because that's the way it always been. Well all those years ago adult men had sex with children. It was okay then as it was the norm but we as a people have grown beyond it today. We now know it is downright abominable.To butcher animals by the millions daily is also abominable when we have the intellect and capability to source our nutrition through other methods.Animals are the innocent children of today and we need to treat them with the utmost respect they are surely entilted to if humanity is to progress in any positive way.

The "thread has wandered abit? lol
Jeez I get the vegan thing but even your opening post was more about the religous proselytizing
part of veganism than building muscle imo. So is that one ^^^^ :rolleyes:

Not surprising that you are going to get a reaction from posters whilst making claims "meat is full of antibiotics" and "taking animals lives." "Sex with children" Etc

The I am seeing more and more of these types of threads where veganism is being pushed using dodgy science, hype etc. Even in this thread the use of evangelical phraseology such as 'bear witness' etc etc is obvious

Anyway back to the muscle issue - you should have no problem on a vegan diet as long as you don't eat sh1te processed foods and stay away from soya - that stuff is not good for many many reasons.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/is-soy-bad-for-you-or-good

Best of luck with it ....

gozunda

ford2600 wrote: »

Vegans who wish to convert people are fundamentally tied to a belief system rather than logic.

Everything must fit to a set of beliefs, very similar mindset to any evangelical religion.

I had thought OP was genuine so posted a link to a very worthwhile podcast. If I had known OP was just a ruse I wouldn't have bothered; for the same reason I wouldn't discuss evolution with a firm believer in the Old Book

Lol you bet me to that ford ...
But yes I agree - way too much going on there imo ...

Alf Veedersane

Markgc wrote: »

Eating meat hardens blood vessels.
Livestock production impacts the planet in a huge way.
Eating meat ups your risk of type 2 diabetes.
Meat puts your colon and brain at risk.
Meat is chock full of harmful hormones.
Red meats are high in saturated fat, which raises blood cholesterol.

Let's agree to disagree.

Don't be one of those vegans that gives vegans a bad name.

gozunda

Markgc wrote: »

...

Life is very vivid to animals. In many cases they know who they are. They know who their friends are and who their rivals are. They have ambitions for higher status. They compete. Their lives follow the arc of a career, like ours do. We both try to stay alive, get food and shelter, and raise some young for the next generation. Animals are no different from us in that regard and I think that their presence here on Earth is tremendously enriching.
Current research provides compelling evidence that at least some animals likely feel a full range of emotions, including fear, joy, happiness, shame, embarrassment, resentment, jealousy, rage, anger, love, pleasure, compassion, respect, relief, disgust, sadness, despair, and grief (Skutch 1996, Poole 1996, 1998, Panksepp 1998, Archer 1999, Cabanac 1999, Bekoff 2000).

Sorry OP but I have to reply to that one before I go

Animals have been eating other animals since the first multicellular organism crawled out of the primordial ooze.

Predators and other meat eaters are part of the natural world. A wolf eating a caribou is part of the entropy / flow of energy and recycling of nutrients which is a fundamental part of the planet's ecosystem.

So unless you are going to genetically manipulate animals to not wanting to eat other animals (and yes I've see this proposed on vegan websites lol) you're on a hiding to now where with that bit of preaching...

Avatar MIA

Ah OP, why do you hate animals?

Cows, pigs, sheep would not survive without human husbandry. Do you think there would be fields of cows if they were of no practical use to humans. You'd probably have a few dozen worldwide in zoos.

So, by all means continue to build muscle on a vegan diet, it can be done, but don't think you are any better than the rest of us. We appreciate animals.

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

Sorry OP but I have to reply to that one before I go

Animals have been eating other animals since the first multicellular organism crawled out of the primordial ooze.

Predators and other meat eaters are part of the natural world. A wolf eating a caribou is part of the entropy / flow of energy and recycling of nutrients which is a fundamental part of the planet's ecosystem.

So unless you are going to genetically manipulate animals to not wanting to eat other animals (and yes I've see this proposed on vegan websites lol) you're on a hiding to now where with that bit of preaching...

A wolf eating a caribou is hardly comparable to the way humans imprison, torture and slaughter animals when they don’t need to for human survival. It’s a pretty barbaric choice for a human to make.

It’s not like a wolf can pop down to Tesco and avail of the choices there.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A wolf eating a caribou is hardly comparable to the way humans imprison, torture and slaughter animals when they don’t need to for human survival. It’s a pretty barbaric choice for a human to make.
It’s not like a wolf can pop down to Tesco and avail of the choices there.

That's not the point the OP was making now was it? Go read it again before attempting a reply.

But yes a wolf stalking, attacking, killing, dismembeing and eating a caribou with all that blood and gore and thrashing ain't for the faint hearted is it?

Btw thems is your opinions. I would respectfully disagree and place your argument in the 'religous hype and the rest of the preaching section' of the rubbish bin tbh

Thanks all the same

Avatar MIA

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Ah OP, why do you hate animals?

Cows, pigs, sheep would not survive without human husbandry. Do you think there would be fields of cows if they were of no practical use to humans. You'd probably have a few dozen worldwide in zoos.

So, by all means continue to build muscle on a vegan diet, it can be done, but don't think you are any better than the rest of us. We appreciate animals.

That’s hilarious. Are you suggesting those animals (prior to selective breeding) didn’t exist before humans ?

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

That's not the point the OP was making now was it? Go read it again before attempting a reply.

But yes a wolf stalking, attacking, killing, dismembeing and eating a caribou with all that blood and gore and thrashing ain't for the faint hearted is it?

Btw thems is your opinions. I would respectfully disagree and place your argument in the 'religous hype' section of the rubbish bin tbh

Thanks all the same

Why are you hiding behind what the OP may have said ?

I responded to your comment.

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Deleted User wrote: »

That’s hilarious. Are you suggesting those animals (prior to selective breeding) didn’t exist before humans ?

I thought we were talking about the here and now?

The animals I listed did not exist before domestication. They are man made... They even have a word for it. Domestication. Vanishingly few would exist without humans. Is this something you didn't reaslise? Surely not...