The majority people of Tallaght need to stand up**MOD Warning Post 1, 478**

Spanish Eyes

It is all about the address.

Jobstown and other feral places there are Tallaght.

All other decent areas should be called Firhouse or Knocklyon.

Citywest called Saggart.

Divide and conquer.

Hitman3000

Avatar MIA wrote:

I can't regulate the entire internet, but if anyone advocates such a policy you seem like a good person for them to contact

I thought considering your comment to me you felt you could regulate who comments or not. Good to know you can't. It already has been suggested along with several other stupid suggestions. Surprised you missed them, seeing as you feel this is a debate.

Spanish Eyes

dxhound2005 wrote: »

That problem has been solved. Nobody needs to be sent to prison now for non payment of a fine. The Fines Act allows the money to be deducted from their means.

However, default of instalment payment of fines does not include an attachment order to Social Welfare payments. So guess what happens?

limnam

spurious wrote: »

Again, you cannot be 'thrown out' of education in Ireland.

So I can just keep leveling teachers with chairs and never get thrown out of the school?

That system needs to be looked into

spurious wrote: »

I'm not thank you.

I'm delighted to hear it.

SimonLynch

All staff paid and reassigned according to lidl. They had a planning application in to demolish the store and redevelop to two storey with extra parking so I guess it's over to the planners to expedite this.

Larbre34

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

It is all about the address.

Jobstown and other feral places there are Tallaght.

All other decent areas should be called Firhouse or Knocklyon.

Citywest called Saggart.

Divide and conquer.

Very few of the media reports of the incident called it Tallaght, it was mostly Fortunestown and Jobstown that were referred to, in the case of the two shop raids. Tallaght was used by the OP here.

And nobody I know thinks Knocklyon and Firhouse are in Tallaght. This has nothing to do with dividing anyone, its about silent law abiding majorities taking community into their own hands

tayto lover

I'd still opt for the slurry tan remedy.
Spray sh1t with sh1t.

limnam

Klonker wrote: »

Renua was the party. The only thing i remember them campaining strong on
was pro-life. Apart from that they were no different than the rest. Half them were blow overs from other parties with agendas.

Sounds like there's a gap in the market for your ideas.

Hitman3000

SimonLynch wrote:

All staff paid and reassigned according to lidl. They had a planning application in to demolish the store and redevelop to two storey with extra parking so I guess it's over to the planners to expedite this.

Well that's the demolishing sorted.

Sultan of Bling

In respect of the lack of prison spaces, sell all prison land in Dublin to developers. With the value of the land, multiple prisons could be built in the middle of nowhere.

The main problem is the judiciary. Suspended sentences for people with 100s of previous convictions. Vested interests being looked after with the free legal aid gravy train.

One of the accused is on disability. If he is convicted, this should be removed immediately, if you can carry stolen goods from a shop. Also, the doctor who signed his certs should be questioned.

Any foreign nationals convicted should be deported back to the country they came from.

Not only are people from tallaght getting a bad name because of this vermin, but also decent hard working people who came to Ireland from other countries.

muddypaws

Discodog wrote: »

You are really suggesting that Guards would of been murdered ?

One Audi 4wd ARV with two armed Guards would of sent a clear message

Have you ever heard of PC Keith Blakelock? A London policeman that was murdered by a mob in Tottenham in 1985. Mob mentality took over, he was hacked to death, and other police officers were lucky to get away with their lives. They were assigned to protect fire fighters that night, as they were being attacked by local youths.

Klonker

dxhound2005 wrote:

There are about 20 parties already, most of them on the Left. You can't force people to vote for them. The only certainty is that if some new party became popular, Roisin Shortall would join them.

You are right there is a lot of left wing parties but I'm talking about a right leaning party looking after the interests of the workers of this country.

SimonLynch

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Well that's the demolishing sorted.

Yep, really feel sorry for decent locals with no transport last couple of days. If the Aldi down the road from me hadn't been there today I'd have had a nasty and very sweary walk to Dunnes.

dxhound2005

Klonker wrote: »

You are right there is a lot of left wing parties but I'm talking about a right leaning party looking after the interests of the workers of this country.

Name a couple of people you think could be leadership material for that party. One man, one woman if you can.

DenMan

Can the government stop social welfare payments if those charged are on it? CCTV footage, amateur camera recordings online etc...there's plenty of evidence to use against them. It would be a great deterrent.

limnam

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Name a couple of people you think could be leadership material for that party. One man, one woman if you can.

Give you one man anyway but he wouldn't go near it.

Michael O'Leary, You need a business mind not a bloody school teacher/solicitor/publican

dxhound2005

limnam wrote: »

Give you one man anyway but he wouldn't go near it.

Michael O'Leary, You need a business mind not a bloody school teacher/solicitor/publican

He would have to take a 95% drop in wages to go into politics.

limnam

dxhound2005 wrote: »

He would have to take a 95% drop in wages to go into politics.

I'd be happy to pay him anything he wanted.

Would you prefer a school teacher pissing away hundreds of millions.

Or O'learly been paid millions to save you hundreds of millions?

Discodog

muddypaws wrote: »

Have you ever heard of PC Keith Blakelock? A London policeman that was murdered by a mob in Tottenham in 1985. Mob mentality took over, he was hacked to death, and other police officers were lucky to get away with their lives. They were assigned to protect fire fighters that night, as they were being attacked by local youths.

I lived in London then. Broadwater Farm was London's Tallaght. Policing has moved on a lot since then. There would be armed officers in attendance now. No mob is going to attack a firearms officer especially as they also have Tasers.

dxhound2005

limnam wrote: »

I'd be happy to pay him anything he wanted.

Would you prefer a school teacher pissing away hundreds of millions.

Or O'learly been paid millions to save you hundreds of millions?

I agree totally. The wages for TD's should be €1 million a year. That would attract the right talent.

The_Kew_Tour

limnam wrote: »

Give you one man anyway but he wouldn't go near it.

Michael O'Leary, You need a business mind not a bloody school teacher/solicitor/publican

Michael O Leary showed he ain't perfection the last 6 months

dav3

limnam wrote: »

Give you one man anyway but he wouldn't go near it.

Michael O'Leary, You need a business mind not a bloody school teacher/solicitor/publican

The poster wanted someone who would look after the interests of workers in this country. Not someone who would chop them up and use them as fuel to heat his many homes.

splinter65

Local radio reporting now that a man has died in Killinarden because an ambulance couldn’t reach him.
The road couldn’t be cleared because of the wild animals attacking the council workers.
Just wait and see how the gubbermint will be blamed for this tragedy.
How very sad.

limnam

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Michael O Leary showed he ain't perfection the last 6 months

Better than the idiots who show it every day of their working career.

Gravelly

DenMan wrote: »

Can the government stop social welfare payments if those charged are on it? CCTV footage, amateur camera recordings online etc...there's plenty of evidence to use against them. It would be a great deterrent.

Not a hope that will ever happen - you’d have every “human rights” freeloader in the country squealing like pigs, and the media egging them on, and unfortunately the politicians listening to them.

Esse85

How do other countries deal with such behavior?
We need to model another country that deals with losers appropriately and use their approach.

School curriculums need to change, kids need to be thought the benefits of working, living a drink/drug free life, raising a family, money management etc

These minority scumbags don't play by the rules or respect the law, to change their behavior they'd need to be victims themselves and feel the pain of an injustice or two.

limnam

dav3 wrote: »

The poster wanted someone who would look after the interests of workers in this country. Not someone who would chop them up and use them as fuel to heat his many homes.

In order to look after the workers you need to balance the books.

Not piss away hundreds of millions on rubbish.

No school teacher and no doctor is going to do it.

muddypaws

Discodog wrote: »

I lived in London then. Broadwater Farm was London's Tallaght. Policing has moved on a lot since then. There would be armed officers in attendance now. No mob is going to attack a firearms officer especially as they also have Tasers.

Not in the weather we've just had, local Gards on the ground would have been in the same danger the Met were back then. They waited for the army to give back up in Tallaght

Discodog

splinter65 wrote: »

Local radio reporting now that a man has died in Killinarden because an ambulance couldn’t reach him.
The road couldn’t be cleared because of the wild animals attacking the council workers.
Just wait and see how the gubbermint will be blamed for this tragedy.
How very sad.

So they should be. If Council workers are attacked they should dial 999 & get Garda assistance. If necessary the Guards can call the Army. If you allow no go areas you just make the scumbags stronger

iamwhoiam

Where I am in Tallaght everyone is out clearing the whole road and trying to sort ourselves out . I wish i could post a video of a line of men shovelling and clearing and carrying shopping for their neighbours

Spanish Eyes

splinter65 wrote: »

Local radio reporting now that a man has died in Killinarden because an ambulance couldn’t reach him.
The road couldn’t be cleared because of the wild animals attacking the council workers.
Just wait and see how the gubbermint will be blamed for this tragedy.
How very sad.

It is just awful how low some can go. This tweet from Lynn Ruane is a bit ambiguous. Was the snow plough attacked by more feral yobs or what?

Just so depressing whatever happened.

https://twitter.com/SenLynnRuane/status/970317418865315840?s=19

Discodog

muddypaws wrote: »

Not in the weather we've just had, local Gards on the ground would have been in the same danger the Met were back then. They waited for the army to give back up in Tallaght

Galway have two ARV's so Dublin, especially with the operation against armed gangs, must have more. I suspect that the Guards didn't view the incident as serious enough to warrant an emergency response. Maybe they would if someone mentioned a gun - good idea if you see your property threatened.

dxhound2005

Esse85 wrote: »

How do other countries deal with such behavior?
We need to model another country that deals with losers appropriately and use their approach.

School curriculums need to change, kids need to be thought the benefits of working, living a drink/drug free life, raising a family, money management etc

These minority scumbags don't play by the rules or respect the law, to change their behavior they'd need to be victims themselves and feel the pain of an injustice or two.

America has a prison population of about 2.25 million. Many of them are in for "three strikes and your out" offences so will never get out. Because of life without parole sentences for many offences, they have a lot of prisoners of a great age, up to 100 years old.

We would need to provide for about 40,000 prisoners to run the same sort of regime here. I think it would be very popular from the sentiments I see expressed on Boards.

Klonker

dxhound2005 wrote:

Name a couple of people you think could be leadership material for that party. One man, one woman if you can.

I cant just throw names at you, apart from people in politics, who else am i gonna know?

I'm talking about a group of like minded people coming together, it doesn't matter who the leader will be now. It would take years of organic growth for a party to grow so as to challenge the large parties but that's what I'm talking about.

limnam

Discodog wrote: »

Galway have two ARV's so Dublin, especially with the operation against armed gangs, must have more. I suspect that the Guards didn't view the incident as serious enough to warrant an emergency response. Maybe they would if someone mentioned a gun - good idea if you see your property threatened.

Armed guards were dispatched at jobstown afaik

Discodog

dxhound2005 wrote: »

America has a prison population of about 2.25 million. Many of them are in for "three strikes and your out" offences so will never get out. Because of life without parole sentences for many offences, they have a lot of prisoners of a great age, up to 100 years old.

We would need to provide for about 40,000 prisoners to run the same sort of regime here. I think it would be very popular from the sentiments I see expressed on Boards.

American doesn't have a justice system it's a terrible example. Look to Europe for examples. But in many countries Looters can be shot.

The power of cctv can be shown that, when the riots happened in London a while ago, 3100 ended up being arrested because of cctv. Some images were put in newspapers & on tv.

splinter65

Discodog wrote: »

So they should be. If Council workers are attacked they should dial 999 & get Garda assistance. If necessary the Guards can call the Army. If you allow no go areas you just make the scumbags stronger

I’m sure the council workers sought the help of the Gardai. Logical thing for the council is to move on to the next area needing emergency attention while the Gardai deal with the offenders.
There’s absolutely no need for a front line worker to be under threat of physical harm.
The unfortunate man who has died is collateral damage in the war between decency, and citizens exercising their rights to express themselves by throwing missiles at public servant who have come to provide them with a service.
As soon as the vast majority of decent people decide that they have had enough, things will change very quickly.

Bob_Marley

There is zero deterrent to crime anymore. People are walking around with hundreds of court convictions to their name, and little or no prison time. In addition, Prisons are no longer seen a deterrent anymore either and nowadays resemble hostels, and shorter and shorter sentences been given now for very serious crime. Also there are few laws and even less enforcement of white collar crime in Ireland, which sets the tone and example for all other crimes.

There seems to be the notion that people in areas like Tallaght are to blame, when in fact when society does breaks down as is happening in Ireland, it's from the top down, not the bottom up.

dxhound2005

Klonker wrote: »

I cant just throw names at you, apart from people in politics, who else am i gonna know?

I'm talking about a group of like minded people coming together, it doesn't matter who the leader will be now. It would take years of organic growth for a party to grow so as to challenge the large parties but that's what I'm talking about.

Someone would have to be Taoiseach if we gave your new party a majority. And Minister for Finance. They would have to be like minded people.

eviltwin

Maybe we need to look at boot camps or chain gangs for juvenile offenders. The problem is young feral kids are untouchable so they have no incentive to stop, then they reach adulthood and they see it as a way of life. I wouldn't judge any area by the actions of a few but it's ridiculous those few are allowed hold entire areas to ransom.

mfceiling

Discodog wrote: »

The Lidl item made it on to news in Finland complete with videos. Paints a lovely picture of Ireland.

There are two questions:

Why did they do it ?
Why didn't anyone stop them ?

The second answers the first. There is supposed to be a rapid reaction Garda section. There is also the army. This could of been a terrorist incident & shows how hopelessly unprepared we are.

I wish people would stop with this crap. The roads were treacherous and any journey in almost any vehicle was ropey to say the least.
How long was it before someone actually called the garda? 2 mins after it started or an hour after it happened?
They blocked the roads to stop the defence forces from getting near them.
The garda were actually helping genuine cases in the conditions. Road traffic accidents, pregnant women needing escorts to hospital etc.
Don't be so quick to put down the garda here. They were doing their best to keep the normal day to day stuff in order (considering the weather) rather than have to head in to tallaght to deal with knackers knocking down a supermarket with a digger.

Discodog

limnam wrote: »

Armed guards were dispatched at jobstown afaik

How many people were shot or tasered ?

AlekSmart

DenMan wrote: »

Can the government stop social welfare payments if those charged are on it? CCTV footage, amateur camera recordings online etc...there's plenty of evidence to use against them. It would be a great deterrent.

Probably not,but the DSP,as the State Element which appears most availed of by the accused,could find here sufficient reason to seek medical reappraisal of, at least some individuals.

The Utube footage,and other video evidence appars to show a markedly higher level of fitness and agility in most participants,than is being presented to the Court.

It is also a positive thing,that the various State Provided training programmes relevant to the construction sector appears to have resulted in some highly capable Machine Operators,far more capable,it must be said than the Gardai.

On a side note,It is surely a vote of confidence in our Legal professsion,that the services of an experienced Solicitor could be availed of in spite of the prevaling conditions...Well done to all concerned.

Mind you,given those very conditions,it might have been somewhat more beneficial to general non-destructively inclined society,if the accused could have been prevailed upon to undertake several hours of manual snow-clearing in the area in return for not being charged with the offences ?

The past few days have shown,that lack-of-manpower,is now a major factor in basic response to Irish Emergency situations. An overreliance on Big-Picture machinery and equipment,has effectively stripped large resedential areas of any organized efforts to get back to normality...call them chain-gangs if you want,but if the situation warrants it (and IMO,it did),then groups of grown men capable of stealing and operating Construction Machinery in this manner,are WELL capable of handling a snow-shovel (Under armed supervision,if required)

The only objection I could see to such a suggestion,might be from the Legal proffession now so busily engaged in seeking to mount defences to the charges ?

Bob_Marley

mfceiling wrote: »

I wish people would stop with this crap. The roads were treacherous and any journey in almost any vehicle was ropey to say the least.
How long was it before someone actually called the garda? 2 mins after it started or an hour after it happened?
They blocked the roads to stop the defence forces from getting near them.
The garda were actually helping genuine cases in the conditions. Road traffic accidents, pregnant women needing escorts to hospital etc.
Don't be so quick to put down the garda here. They were doing their best to keep the normal day to day stuff in order (considering the weather) rather than have to head in to tallaght to deal with knackers knocking down a supermarket with a digger.

If Gardai and other public services including courts and prisons were given the proper resources instead of spin, these type of incidents would not occur. The Government is responsible for maintaining society, not the scroats. Society breaks down from the top down, not the bottom up.

limnam

splinter65 wrote: »

As soon as the vast majority of decent people decide that they have had enough, things will change very quickly.

The vast majority of decent people where?

In the country? Most people don't give a fck what happens in isolated parts of Tallaght for example. If it's not happening in leafy suburbia, no one cares.

Do you think the decent people of Jobstown/Kilinarden etc haven't had enough all ready? What do you think is going to change?

They'll dawn bali's and baseball bats and take matters into their own hands?

It's happened before. It didn't end well.

limnam

Discodog wrote: »

How many people were shot or tasered ?

0

Why would you be shooting someone unless your life was at risk?

Esse85

Public flogging should be introduced, anyone found guilty of recent looting should be tied up near Lidl/Centra and whipped and made an example of.
Would it act as a deterrent? Yes

Barbaric yes, but these scumbags would get the message.

Thespoofer

spurious wrote: »

Let government computers talk to each other.
Child not attending school - no child benefit
Child not attending Hospital appointment - no child benefit
Child not being parented in any way resembling normality - no child benefit.
Interactions with the guards - investigation leading to loss of child benefit.
Hit them where it hurts, stop 'their' money.

This.

sdanseo

Discodog wrote: »

How many people were shot or tasered ?

None, because in Europe police response is more measured. They don't shoot people unless there is a clear obvious and imminent threat to life unlike in America where it's open season.

In saying that, I still think armed Army Patrols together with the Guards would have been a resonable option for the rest of the night in the local area. Not Martial Law - but similar to the escort the Defence Forces provide for the Gardaí for prisoner transfer etc.

The Gardaí didn't have the capability to respond adequately by themselves (through no fault of their own) and it would have sent a strong message.

We very sensibly can't comment about the crime itself or the people involved but we can say without prejudicing any criminal proceedings that if someone was to be convicted of this, the judge passing sentence should throw away the key.

dxhound2005

Bob_Marley wrote: »

If Gardai and other public services including courts and prisons were given the proper resources instead of spin, these type of incidents would not occur. The Government is responsible for maintaining society, not the scroats. Society breaks down from the top down, not the bottom up.

The only element not being provided is about 40,000 prison places, a tenfold increase. That would allow for a significant number of the serial offenders to be put away to die in prison.