Have you been affected by alcoholism?

irishguitarlad

ThinkProgress wrote: »

I don't ever feel sorry for an alcoholic... they choose the bottle. It doesn't choose them!

Even if it's a subconscious choice... it's always a choice in the end.

But at the same time, I also do not judge them either. If you want to kill yourself slowly with alcohol or any other drug... work away. It's your life, your choice! It's always a choice! Plenty more people in this world, make the choice to live and face reality....

I think you're being quite harsh there. People with addictions normally have some underlying psychological problem, Threy didn't choose to be addicts they just kind of fell into it. On a personal level my father is a nicotine addict. He spends all my family's money on cigars and fags. I can see that he does it because of some underlying problem that he never sought help for.

ThinkProgress

irishguitarlad wrote: »

I think you're being quite harsh there. People with addictions normally have some underlying psychological problem, Threy didn't choose to be addicts they just kind of fell into it. On a personal level my father is a nicotine addict. He spends all my family's money on cigars and fags. I can see that he does it because of some underlying problem that he never sought help for.

I don't think I am...

We can all potentially become addicted to something in this life. For some it might be alcohol... others it could be something else. But it's still a choice at the end of the day!

Addicts tend to think everyone else is lucky and they are unlucky. This is their own warped sense of reality. And it's a complete cop out.

Destructive behaviour is usually caused by someone's lack of desire to live. (or to live in reality, in the case of mind altering drugs) It is a choice!

There are far too many people in this world who want to live, to waste your time on people who are making the choice not to...

6541

Great thread. I have so much experience of this I could write a book. I never really talk about any of the situations that I have experienced. My life has been one long Mr fix it for various people in my family, because of Alcohol they will and have done many insane and irrational things, then I fix it.
So tired of that crap.

bucketybuck

irishguitarlad wrote: »

I think you're being quite harsh there.

Having seen the effects of alcoholism up close I must admit to being one of those who treat alcoholics harshly myself. I appreciate that it is a disease, but its very much a selfish disease that hugely impacts upon the people you are supposed to care about the most.

Interesting how many "uncles" are the alcoholic people know, including one of mine who drank right into the grave at a young age.

bilbot79

I worry sometimes if I'm a bingeaholic because of the.pure amount I can put away. Bottle of wine and 6 cans wouldn't be uncommon. I go through phases of enjoying that bus and then feeling unhealthy and going on a health binge for a few weeks. Cyclical

somesoldiers

I have a friend rings me up every few months drunk, telling me about a new job he has landed e500-e1000 per day, all the trimmings, gonna sort himself out, pay me the money he owes me, get back in touch with his son.....then nothing....the drink has taken hold again, he usually lasts til the first pay day then he goes back on the drink, eventually runs out of teeth he is getting pulled, uncles that have died etc and gets let go again or from what I hear there may be some embarrassing situation at a work do...

I can usually tell what stage he is at by his ramblings on facebook....sad really, has so much potential but is in his late 40s now so may never change.

I have a few friends that spent stints in dry out centres over the years, it had certainly taken over their lives but they still drink nowadays just not often as far as I know.

Personally, I may have come close to the abyss a few times I suppose during my 20's, never let it interfere with my work other than the odd hangover, ahem sick day...but can quite easily go for months on end with out a drink nowadays....I lie, usually about 6 weeks and I feel the urge to go an have 10 pints at least. I get in very bad form if I don't. I prefer going on my own which is a bad sign but I actually like doing a crossword in a dingy old mans pub where no one will annoy me...

I wont have 2 or 3, unless I know I can have a good skite I wont bother, would describe myself more as a binge drinker the seldom time that I do nowadays with two young children- am I an alcoholic, no I don't think so. Do I have a bad relationship with alcohol, yes certainly. I tell myself it de-stresses me stops the bucket from filling up too much, but more and more I find it depressing me afterwards so I think I will eventually think it is more bad than good. I put on a lot of weight over the years but have worked hard to lose 5.5 st in the last two years so am aware of the calories a session adds

I work abroad a bit (seldom enough that it is still a novelty and a nice break away from the family), 10 years ago I would be thinking great chance to go on a week long sessions but the 3 times I was away last year there were maybe 2 session nights, and 3 in the gym followed by early nights, maybe I am just getting old or getting sense at last...

Annasopra

ThinkProgress wrote: »

I don't ever feel sorry for an alcoholic... they choose the bottle. It doesn't choose them!

Even if it's a subconscious choice... it's always a choice in the end.

But at the same time, I also do not judge them either. If you want to kill yourself slowly with alcohol or any other drug... work away. It's your life, your choice! It's always a choice! Plenty more people in this world, make the choice to live and face reality....

Addiction is not a choice. Its a disease.

ChikiChiki

Yes, quite badly by parents drinking. They were good people, albeit somewhat lost in their own relationship I suspect, and had good intentions but failed to realise the damage the drinking and arguing done to the kids. I've grown up affected to this very day by it.

I remember as a child being afraid that one of them would get badly hurt. Nowadays I hold serious contempt for anyone who gets hammered on front of their kids. The damage caused can be life lasting psychologically on the child. At 30 I've tried to move on and overcome them days but honestly its a struggle.

ThinkProgress

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Addiction is not a choice. Its a disease.

You're entitled to your opinion, as I am mine!

I've seen plenty of addiction. And it's my opinion that some people choose life, and others choose death... or choose to hide from their problems! (the bottle being one of the more popular methods of doing this!)

My sympathy goes to people who choose to live in reality, even when they have difficult problems to work through!

Someone who chooses to drink themselves to death, has chosen not to live... not to try anymore! They have given up! No real difference to someone who puts a gun to their temple or a noose around their neck - except alcohol is a much slower method.

Alcoholics do have problems... but the alcohol is not actually their problem. That is just the method they have chosen to deal with their problems!

I don't judge anyone who wants to get out of this life... but I also don't waste my time, energy or sympathy on them!

ArchXStanton

ThinkProgress wrote: »

I don't ever feel sorry for an alcoholic... they choose the bottle. It doesn't choose them!

Even if it's a subconscious choice... it's always a choice in the end.

But at the same time, I also do not judge them either. If you want to kill yourself slowly with alcohol or any other drug... work away. It's your life, your choice! It's always a choice! Plenty more people in this world, make the choice to live and face reality....

It's a little bit more complex than that,most alcoholics start out as the weekend warrior and before they know it,it turns into daily drinking,every step of the way brings them a little further down the road to alcoholism,at some stage they become aware it's developed into a problem.To truly understand it you have to understand whats happening inside the mind of an alcoholic,think of it as building a highway in the brain,every drink reinforces the reward system in the brain through the release of endorphins,over time tolerance develops and they need more and more alcohol to create the same pleasurable feelings, eventually they become psychologically and physically addicted to alcohol.

If an alcoholic can get their head around this they've come a long way in beating the addiction, realising their triggers and what makes them crave alcohol,I think most alcoholics including myself didn't just wake up one day and were suddenly alcoholic,but looking back we can see how we got there.

The Backwards Man

Addiction is something that happens to other people. Weaker, lesser, stupider people. I'm proud to be one that will never succumb unlike all those other useless people.


The graveyards are full of people that thought addiction was something that would never trouble them.

ThinkProgress

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Addiction is something that happens to other people. Weaker, lesser, stupider people. I'm proud to be one that will never succumb unlike all those other useless people.


The graveyards are full of people that thought addiction was something that would never trouble them.

Many addicts are actually highly intelligent people... they understand the choice they are making!

It's a myth that all addicts are stupid. Or that they don't understand. Most understand very well... In my experience, many actually have a better understanding of life and it's harsh realities... hence why they choose the bottle!

A stupider person might go through life, with a more carefree attitude... they might not see all the harsh realities or the inequalities and bad luck. Many addicts actually see TOO clearly... and they don't like what they see!

marienbad

ThinkProgress wrote: »

I don't ever feel sorry for an alcoholic... they choose the bottle. It doesn't choose them!

Even if it's a subconscious choice... it's always a choice in the end.

But at the same time, I also do not judge them either. If you want to kill yourself slowly with alcohol or any other drug... work away. It's your life, your choice! It's always a choice! Plenty more people in this world, make the choice to live and face reality....

Where would we be without a bit of complacent pop psychology ?

marienbad

ThinkProgress wrote: »

You're entitled to your opinion, as I am mine!

!

It is not an opinion , why not educate yourself ?

bucketybuck

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Many addicts are actually highly intelligent people... they understand the choice they are making!

It's a myth that all addicts are stupid. Or that they don't understand. Most understand very well... In my experience, many actually have a better understanding of life and it's harsh realities... hence why they choose the bottle!

The conclusion from that though is that the alcoholic is making a choice in full knowledge of what they are doing and its consequences, and as such is either willfully selfish or morally/mentally weak, no?

Drumpot

ThinkProgress wrote: »

I don't think I am...

We can all potentially become addicted to something in this life. For some it might be alcohol... others it could be something else. But it's still a choice at the end of the day!

Addicts tend to think everyone else is lucky and they are unlucky. This is their own warped sense of reality. And it's a complete cop out.

Destructive behaviour is usually caused by someone's lack of desire to live. (or to live in reality, in the case of mind altering drugs) It is a choice!

There are far too many people in this world who want to live, to waste your time on people who are making the choice not to...

I try to stay away from these sort of uninformed ramblings but it’s important to address some of the myths that people choose to believe.

My wife has a gene she was born with that increases her chances of cancer. Rightly, her family and friends support her and we encourage her to take what steps she needs to do to lessen the chances. She can choose to have certain procedures but they come at a cost. If she gets cancer because she didn’t have these procedures nobody will be shoving it down her throat that she could of prevented the cancer.

It was explained to me that my alcoholism was triggered/brought on through nature and nurture. Horrifying life events from when I was a young boy and inherited genes (I am adopted but there’s alcoholism in my biological family) meant “I never had a chance” according to an extremely respected therapist (who people will of heard on radio).

Growing up all I wanted was my own family. Being adopted may have had something to do with it but my friends used to slag me as a younger man, that I only ever wanted to find a wife ( not just be with different girls). When I met somebody, settled down and had kids I thought my constant struggles would reduce. But eventually I realized that I was broken and got to the point where I thought my family was better off without me. Some would say that was selfish but from my point of view I was doing my family a favor. You need only read about the damage an alcoholic can do to a family to see I wasn’t completely wrong!

Some people are born more pre disposed to certain things and this ignorant “well I am ok jack why aren’t you?” is neither helpful or progressive. I know one woman who was fine until her 40s and the death of her mother triggered her down a really destructive path , starting with the odd glass of wine while cooking dinner. Tragic events seem to trigger an in built gene in some people at any age!!

I have done talks in schools and it’s heart breaking. Sometimes you can see the children affected by alcoholism as some go into themselves and some look like they are going to start crying. It’s such a shame that they don’t have these kind of talks in every school because I don’t remember having any talks like the one I gave!

When I listen to stories in AA meetings you can truly get a sense of the damage caused to all parties. But What people don’t always get to see us the real fear, torment sadness and utter loniless that an alcoholic can feel.

I would suggest you goto an open AA meeting and listen to people trying to be better, trying to recover their lives and come back here and profess your confidence about how it’s simply a selfish choice. You might here some of the success stories where people came through the torment to recover and be a positive in their families lives again.

beefburrito

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Addiction is something that happens to other people. Weaker, lesser, stupider people. I'm proud to be one that will never succumb unlike all those other useless people.


The graveyards are full of people that thought addiction was something that would never trouble them.

Lots of people's loved ones have succumbed to addiction.
I sure hope it never knocks on your door or brings you heart ache.

Plenty of good men and women have suffered greatly due to addiction and having to put up with lies,gaslighting and deciet.

I used to drink a lot fortunately I'm sober 15 year's now and I'm 41

I wouldn't blame any man woman or child for walking away from an alcoholic or drug addict.

There's a lot of famous actor's and artists fought the hooch and drugs,Richard Harris, Colin Farrell, Kate Moss, James Hetfield that's only a small few...

Sure you could be one in denial yourself, it's cunning baffling and powerful...

Bambi985

ThinkProgress that’s the equivalent of saying that someone with an eating disorder is simply choosing not to eat. If they chose to simply eat, life wouldn’t be as terrible for them and their loved ones! So f*ck them for being so selfish and choosing to cop out of life. Which is something I sadly encountered a lot when I suffered with one.

There’s a bit more to addictions than that unfortunately. Alcoholism IS a selfish disease, it’s an incredibly frustrating disease for any loved one to contend with but people don’t consciously wake each morning with a plan to self-destruct. They just don’t. Someone who chooses that path is in a lot of pain and turmoil. The emotions and driving forces are complex, they are scary and I hope to never experience them myself and hope that you don’t either. Sometimes a little bit of compassion goes a long way in life.

ThinkProgress

bucketybuck wrote: »

The conclusion from that though is that the alcoholic is making a choice in full knowledge of what they are doing and its consequences, and as such is either willfully selfish or morally/mentally weak, no?

That's a conclusion you are choosing to make from my comments... it's not one I made!

I have had my own addictions, and seen it in others close to me. Most people's idea of what causes/drives it, is completely wrong... even the the so-called "experts"...

My addictions were completely down to me. They were my life choices. Just like it was my choice to beat them! And I don't consider myself to be either stupid or weak! (although we all have moments of both in life)

Too many people in this life (and particularly this country) want excuses, and want others to have sympathy and empathy for their sad plight. There are some things that genuinely deserve both our sympathy and empathy... someone drinking themselves into the grave is not really one of them though, IMO!

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

bucketybuck wrote: »

The conclusion from that though is that the alcoholic is making a choice in full knowledge of what they are doing and its consequences, and as such is either willfully selfish or morally/mentally weak, no?

It might differ case to case but I’m agreeing somewhat with thinkprogress on this. If I reference my pregnant friend at the moment she no doubt has a problem but she justifies her drinking at each stage eg
-Most people don’t even know they’re pregnant at this stage and drink and the baby is grand
- I’m not keeping it anyway
- had a pint with food, pint with food doesn’t count
- I’ve low iron, have to drink Guinness
- the dads a bastard he can still have his drinks it’s not fair
- my mam said a few drinks now and again won’t do any harm
- well Mary across the road drank on all her kids and they’re fine
and of course the if nobody knows about it it doesn’t count kind of drinking too

She knows the consequences but chooses to carry on excusing her behavior
She knows she’s doing wrong because she was convinced the morning of her twelve week scan that the baby was dead and she’s hiding it

She denies there’s a problem, she won’t ask for help and as anyone will tell you you can’t help someone who won’t accept they have a problem

As a grown adult who’s sober sometimes she’s consciously making the decision to do what she’s doing. She considered termination but decided to keep it and in that choice she has a duty of care to it but the babies needs aren’t coming first her sitting on a high stool is or her skulling vodka in her bedroom with her sister is because “be grand, the fathers a r*tard so the child will be too anyway”

That is a choice. It’s s choice not to get help and a choice to hurt the unborn child. It is selfish and morally and mentally weak.

beefburrito

ThinkProgress wrote: »

That's a conclusion you are choosing to make from my comments... it's not one I made!

I have had my own addictions, and seen it in others close to me. Most people's idea of what causes/drives it, is completely wrong... even the the so-called "experts"...

My addictions were completely down to me. They were my life choices. Just like it was my choice to beat them! And I don't consider myself to be either stupid or weak! (although we all have moments of both in life)

Too many people in this life (and particularly this country) want excuses, and want others to have sympathy and empathy for their sad plight. There are some things that genuinely deserve both our sympathy and empathy... someone drinking themselves into the grave is not really one of them though, IMO!

It's great being away from all that isn't it.
Giving it up in my mid 20's was some adventure lol
Now in my 40s it's great being out and not having to have a drink to feel relaxed or have fake fun, puking all over the place,and looking like a clown lol

corner of hells

Four dead from alcohol abuse in my family , three under thirty
Another got away with not going to prison for killing some in a RTA and another got a twenty year ban from driving.

Three cousins of mine were within an ace of going into care only for a local Garda and nun placing them in accommodation with their mum at the last moment.

seachto7

Our dependence on booze to have a good time seems to be amplified when you see the Irish (not only the Irish) in action abroad. As the attitude seems to be a bit different towards booze in Italy or Spain, they don’t seem to have to tear into it like it’s down to last rations. Though I suppose the Irish are on holidays, so why wouldn’t we/they be tearing into it.

seachto7

corner of hells wrote: »

Four dead from alcohol abuse in my family , three under thirty
Another got away with not going to prison for killing some in a RTA and another got a twenty year ban from driving.

Three cousins of mine were within an ace of going into care only for a local Garda and nun placing them in accommodation with their mum at the last moment.

You won't see any mention of that in the Storehouse tour. "This is what CAN happen with alcohol!"

Pluto Planet

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Many addicts are actually highly intelligent people... they understand the choice they are making!

It's a myth that all addicts are stupid. Or that they don't understand. Most understand very well... In my experience, many actually have a better understanding of life and it's harsh realities... hence why they choose the bottle!

A stupider person might go through life, with a more carefree attitude... they might not see all the harsh realities or the inequalities and bad luck. Many addicts actually see TOO clearly... and they don't like what they see!

I make love to harsh reality, I caress it, fondle it, and fukc it deeply.

valoren

My dad is an alcoholic. I've written about it in the past. What is frustrating is that he is in complete denial about it and thus has zero sympathy from me.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105855820&postcount=15

Alcoholism and alcoholic are loaded terms. Alcohol is a drug and if taking that legal drug leads to a a destructive pattern in your life then you are addicted. You are a drug addict.

For those who are addicted the term 'alcoholic' has a double meaning. As the OP pointed out the depiction of an actual alcoholic is someone who is on skid row, drinking from brown paper bags etc. To them that is an alcoholic and as they themselves are not like that then they are not an alcoholic. If they end up like that then they would be. It's that kind of warped logic of denial that pervades for high functioning alcoholics, while they continue to drink addictively.

There is drug addiction and nothing more. You don't see smokers talking about being Smokeaholics for example. It would be absurd. They're addicted to nictoine but for some reason there is an aversion to saying you are addicted to alcohol. I guess because there is the idea of the skid row alcoholic, they don't want to be associated with that false idea. That alternate meaning for the term alcoholic is for those who realise they have an addiction but use the label of being alcoholic as if they have caught some kind of disease. It is used as a cover. It absolves them of taking personal responsibility for losing control but the term allows for them to shift the blame so to speak to this idea of 'alcoholism'. The term alcoholic is more socially acceptable than letting it be known they are in reality drug addicts. In effect, they are playing the victim.

For those who realise they have a problem, those who actually take ownership of it by facing reality and successfully recover from it, they have nothing but my respect.

As for my dad, I'd have respect for him if he came to terms with his addiction, if he said he ****ed up badly and will look to at least try and fix things. He never will. He is of the former kind of alcoholic as whenever he is questioned on his ridiculous drinking he invariably points to my mother's grandfather, who was a raging alcoholic, per him a messy violent man. To my dad that is what an alcoholic is. It allows for him to shift the blame, to deflect from his own addiction. He is in such a deep denial, he routinely points to a man I've never met and can have no opinion of to absolve himself. He comforts himself with the idea that my mother is actually the one with the problem with alcohol as she exaggerates his drinking all because of her own family's problems with her grandfather, and to top that off, she has her three adult sons brainwashed against him making us believe that he is an alcoholic.

Needless to say, he can continue to delude himself with that while he cracks open his THIRD can of Guinness alone in the kitchen at 10 AM on St Stephen's Day that he is not one of them and is just a social drinker who likes a drink instead.

ArchXStanton

valoren wrote: »

My dad is an alcoholic. I've written about it in the past. What is frustrating is that he is in complete denial about it and thus has zero sympathy from me.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105855820&postcount=15

Alcoholism and alcoholic are loaded terms. Alcohol is a drug and if taking that legal drug leads to a a destructive pattern in your life then you are addicted. You are a drug addict.

For those who are addicted the term 'alcoholic' has a double meaning. As the OP pointed out the depiction of an actual alcoholic is someone who is on skid row, drinking from brown paper bags etc. To them that is an alcohoic and as they themselves are not like that then they are not an alcoholic. If they end up like that then they would be. It's that kind of warped logic of denial that pervades for high functioning alcoholics, while they continue to drink addictively.

There is drug addiction and nothing more. You don't see smokers talking about being Smokeaholics for example. It would be absurd. They're addicted to nictoine but for some reason there is an aversion to saying you are addicted to alcohol. That alternate meaning for the term alcoholic is for those who realise they have an addiction but use the label of being alcoholic as if they have caught some kind of disease. It absolves them of taking personal responsibility for losing control and the term alcoholic is more socially acceptable than letting it be known they are in reality drug addicts.

For those who realise they have a problem, those who take ownership of it and recover from it, they have nothing but my respect.

As for my dad, I'd have respect for him if he came to terms with his addiction, if he said he ****ed up badly and will look to at least try and fix things. He never will. He is of the former kind of alcoholic as whenever he is questioned on his ridiculous drinking he invariably points to my mother's grandfather, who was a raging alcoholic, per him a messy violent man. To my dad that is what an alcoholic is. He is in such a deep denial, he routinely points to a man I've never met and can have no opinion of to absolve himself. With that he can continue to delude himself that while he cracks open his THIRD can of Guinness alone in the kitchen at 10 am on St Stephen's Day that he is not one of them and is just a social drinker who likes a drink instead.

Ever thought about getting him on the drug Naltrexone?

julyjane

Yes, sadly, but not as badly as some. My husband has dealt with the brunt of family members alcoholism and others enablement of it and now he has no contact with any of them. Sad to see him suffering but he has to protect himself because it was really getting out of hand, he'd been telling me for years but I had no idea how bad it was until I witnessed one incident and the fallout from it with my own eyes.

Bunny Colvin

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Ever thought about getting him on the drug Naltrexone?

That's probably something he'd have to want to do himself. You can talk and try to reason with an alcoholic until your blue in the face but the thing is they have to want to help themselves. Sadly a great deal of them never will.

ArchXStanton

Bunny Colvin wrote: »

That's probably something he'd have to want to do himself. You can talk and try to reason with an alcoholic until your blue in the face but the thing is they have to want to help themselves. Sadly a great deal of them never will.

True,like all these things there has to be a want to do it,some have no rock bottom

Drumpot

ThinkProgress wrote: »

That's a conclusion you are choosing to make from my comments... it's not one I made!

I have had my own addictions, and seen it in others close to me. Most people's idea of what causes/drives it, is completely wrong... even the the so-called "experts"...

My addictions were completely down to me. They were my life choices. Just like it was my choice to beat them! And I don't consider myself to be either stupid or weak! (although we all have moments of both in life)

Too many people in this life (and particularly this country) want excuses, and want others to have sympathy and empathy for their sad plight. There are some things that genuinely deserve both our sympathy and empathy... someone drinking themselves into the grave is not really one of them though, IMO!

I choose to trust experts and people who aren’t me for support. It was my mind that got me into trouble and I believe in the idea that you can’t heal a sick mind by using a sick mind. I have found the support from these people to also help me reconnect with a world that I find uninviting and plain horrible at times. This is my depressive gene dragging me down!

A therapist can stand back from my own prejudice and problems , so that I can get an independent , objective view of my problems. A therapist can also challange what I say and my delusions about myself. Doing it on your own basiclalu means you are deciding what’s the best way to Deal with your issues using the exact same mind that is causing these issues.

Asking my wife (who has to live with me) “how am I doing?” Will yield a more honest idea of how I am doing as opposed to your presumed zero tolerance to “selfish” tendencies as you call It. These are my Cheques and balances along with my doctor, friends and extended family. I would be concerned with somebody who says that they have addictive issues but they found how to deal with it on their own. Not because it’s not possible but because self delusion is one of the cunning aspects of addiction and relying on that same sick mind to rehabilitate yourself means zero regulation or objective party.

Beating myself up and calling myself negative things doesn’t help me. But not just that, I don’t know how that would help me be emapthic or loving to my family. This sort of religious self flailing only kept me absorbed in myself and closed me emotionally off from the world. That if I am rigidly disciplines towards myself and unforgiving towards my addiction , that I would have the same rigid attitude to those around me.

I choose to try to be better. To try to be forgiving to myself. To try and not think of myself as the lazy piece of sh*t that I can feel even after years of sobriety and therapy. But I also choose to let others help me see the things in myself that I can’t see and to point them out to me.

Isolating and demonizing addicts doesn’t work. There is literally nothing progressive that promotes this concept. Unfortunately the best thing a family can do for somebody with addictions is to protect themselves as a priority. If their loved one is going to recover , in my experience in seeing people make it or fail, the person with the problem has to somehow find the strength to pull the self from the brink. I believe that There is little to nothing a family can do so would urge that they please don’t ever think you have responsibility for the pain and damage that is caused.

Sephiroth_dude

Musefan wrote: »

My father is/was an alcoholic. I say was as he currently has wet brain (wernike-korsakoffs syndrome) which means he is totally dependent on 24hour care and has a memory span of about 10 seconds. He no longer has access to drink and is in a nursing home.

That's what happened my uncle My brother was very close too going that way, a few times he ended up in a state like that, he was lucky he came out of it, he could easily put away a 500ml bottle of vodka a day until he couldn't drink anymore and then he'd stop and that's when he would get these alcohol related seizures and we and mam would have to call an ambulance for him, we'd know it was coming because once he stopped drinking it was guaranteed and we were both on high alert, I'd have to stay home with him in case anything happened him and she was afraid to leave the house as well in case she missed it it tore us apart and I feel a lot of resentment towards him for the way he treated us, makes me sad because growing up I idolized him, I don't think we'll ever get back that great relationship we had.

Sephiroth_dude

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

That's what happened my uncle My brother was very close too going that way, a few times he ended up in a state like that, he was lucky he came out of it, he could easily put away a 500ml bottle of vodka a day until he couldn't drink anymore and then he'd stop and that's when he would get these alcohol related seizures and we and mam would have to call an ambulance for him, we'd know it was coming because once he stopped drinking it was guaranteed and we were both on high alert, I'd have to stay home with him in case anything happened him and she was afraid to leave the house as well in case she missed it it tore us apart and I feel a lot of resentment towards him for the way he treated us, makes me sad because growing up I idolized him, I don't think we'll ever get back that great relationship we had.

You poor thing. I hope you and the rest of your family are doing okay. It must be agony for your parents to watch their child go through that (you, as well as your brother).

Hector Bellend

my understanding of this may be overtly simplistic.

But I believe the difference between an alcoholic and what you'd call an alcohol abuser is physical addiction. Alcoholics are physically addicted to and dependent upon alcohol.

Alcohol abuse can still negatively impact your health and well being in a serious way but problems drinkers can go days weeks or even months without taking a drink.

Alcoholics cant do that.

I was a binger. I'd go on a mad one maybe three four times a year. Totally ape for a weekend then go without for weeks.

There is a history of alcoholism in my family.

beefburrito

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Seems you have been heavily brainwashed by the AA brainwashing.

First and foremost there is no such thing as an "alcoholic" only alcohol addiction.

Alcoholic is a made up buzz word, truth is no on on Earth can define what exactly it is. No one!.

No doctor, no specialist no addiction counselor.

Someone who drinks too much?. That's everyone who goes out at weekends. They don't stop at 2 or 3.

Someone who drinks everyday?. Many do and have 1 or 2. Live perfectly normal lifes

Someone who binge drinks to excess?. Most at weekends again.

Someone who drinks 24/7?. Well they have to stop at some point also What if they don't define themselves as "alcoholic"?.


It's simple it's addiction. Alcoholic is a ridiculous label as it's stigmatizing and is self diagnosed!. No one on Earth can label another a "alcoholic" you label yourself how absurd is that?!.

Someone addicted to cocaine, are they a cocaholic?. How about Heroin?. A heroinaholic?.

See how absurd the label really is?.

Jason Vale disproves the myth of alcoholism in his excellent book 'Kick the drink easily'

I have been around alcohol addiction my whole life, it ain't nice trust me.

But.

If you believe in alcoholism the 'disease' as per the AA cult brainwashing you are deceived.

Not a scrap of evidence on Earth that it's a 'disease'.


It's Alcohol addiction


The 'Disease' thing makes sure people continue to drink. If someone goes to AA and is told they have a incurable disease they are powerless over then that is a very good reason to drink!.

Step 1. Admitted we are powerless over alcohol, that our life's had become unmanageable.

Incredibly destructive thinking.

All 12 step programs are simply learned helplessness.

2 criteria for a cult in my book.

1.Push learned helplessness and
2. never allow anyone to question the incessant dogma.

Ever go to AA or any other 12 step program and see someone actually question it or the bullshyt promises or steps?.

Ever?

Never see it. The indoctrination is too heavily ingrained.

Many folk go to AA and the like and get worse!.

Ever meet someone in 'Recovery' for like 20/30/40 years; such is the dogma of the bullshyt of the 'disease' model of AA and the like.

Someone who hasn't drunk in 20/30 years sit in front of a room full of people are say with a straight face " Hi I'm X and I'm a alcoholic". Lunacy. Haven't drank in 20 years, you are not a alcoholic, not that there is such a thing as alcoholism anyway!.


12 step programmes, created by a womanizing unhinged unscrupulous lunatic Bill Wilson who lied incessantly about his sobriety and stole the idea from the Oxford group.

The term "alcoholic" is so absurd as no one knows exactly what it is!.

If you need more evidence on how stupid the disease model is and how mind melting the AA doctrine is look up this site

http://www.morerevealed.com/

or look up the orange papers.



But please don't refer to it as a disease, as it isn't.


But yes alcohol addiction is very common in Ireland, and well people are decieved into thinking they might have a 'disease' and this can be terribly damaging to a vulnerable person who will latch onto anything.

What about Lifering ???

Stonedpilot

beefburrito wrote: »

What about Lifering ???

Don't know much on them, but look how can anyone benefit from thinking they have an incurable disease and that if they drink they will die or go insane?.

If you look at the 12 step model it is very clearly Learned Helplessness hence why people are told they are

Powerless/Need to admit defects of character/need to keep "coming back"/ continued to take personal inventory etc etc.

It's all about undermining the ego.

Psychologically this can be very dangerous, especially with vulnerable people. Can basically shatter their self worth and thus they are only validated from

"Identifying" in the rooms ie gone from alcohol addiction to meeting addiction!.

I would encourage anyone with a drink problem (like I had) to empower themselves.
You are powerful over alcohol and can make a decision to not drink.

Even if you believe in the 12 steps and admit you are "powerless over alcohol"

you still have to make a decision to stop, so how are you powerless as such?.

It's simple it's learned helplessness, which in my view is terrible for someones sense of worth and self esteem.

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Stonedpilot

Fantastically simple book on the subject of alcohol addiction and the sense it makes to stop!.


https://www.amazon.com/Kick-Drink-Easily-Jason-Vale/dp/1845903900

One eyed Jack

Drumpot wrote: »

I would suggest you goto an open AA meeting and listen to people trying to be better, trying to recover their lives and come back here and profess your confidence about how it’s simply a selfish choice. You might here some of the success stories where people came through the torment to recover and be a positive in their families lives again.

I've been to AA meetings Drumpot and I'll still always say that people who choose to become dependant on alcohol to the detriment of the people closest to them, are making a selfish choice. Your perspective is your own and it's working for you and that's great, but whether you care to acknowledge it or not, or dismiss it as myths, TP's perspective is just as valid as your own, and it's one that does actually work, for a lot of people. It discourages a lot of people from becoming dependent upon alcohol in the first place, and it works on a lot of people who have become dependent on alcohol, and can be applied to an infinite number of addictive attitudes and behaviours.

Bambi985 wrote: »

ThinkProgress that’s the equivalent of saying that someone with an eating disorder is simply choosing not to eat.

I don't think that's quite the same comparison. A better comparison to an eating disorder is someone who chooses to over-eat, to the point where they are aware that they are morbidly obese, but yet they choose to continue to eat because it's become an addictive behaviour.

That's why I'm not a fan of this idea of referring to disorders like alcohol use disorder and eating disorders being framed as a disease. Framing disorders such as alcoholism and obesity as diseases means interpreting them as an issue that places an imperative on society to address, hence why we get terms like "drinking culture" and so on, and because we're in Ireland, we see the effects of it more than we would in say France, Italy and Spain for example where their relationship with alcohol is actually far more unhealthy than you had suggested earlier. They're much worse than Ireland, up there with Britain, and the statistics for binge drinking among young Europeans is beginning to rival that of our neighbours on the far side of the pond - the US.

To go back to the OP though, yes, I have been dependent upon alcohol in the past, I put my wife through hell because of it, but I took responsibility for my own behaviour and my own attitude towards drinking and other addictive behaviours and I got a handle on most of them. I still smoke, I still drink, I still enjoy my food, but nowadays I'm not dependent on them like I was then, and that's why I never use terms like "recovering alcoholic" or any of the rest of it, because that implies that I have no self-control without an external influence which is the only reason prohibiting me from becoming dependent on those substances again. That's where I understand TP is coming from when they're saying that it's a selfish attitude and behaviour that people would choose to become dependent upon things which ease their discomfort such as alcohol and food. It's not as though they're rare or hard to get your hands on in Western society either, and so it's very easy to choose to find comfort in them, and very easy to become addicted to the comfort they provide, hence why it's often times almost impossible for an individual to give that up and choose to take responsibility for their own attitudes and behaviours.

rickis tache

dad sober 30 years. Mam still drinks but not often. 2 brothers addicts drink, coke and gambling. 1 Sister alcohol addict.
no real memory of family life up to 14 years of age.
I have very little contact with those still drinking but I do drink a bit myself. Reckon I got lucky by having woeful hangovers so the idea of drink after a session makes me feel even worse.
To me it's their problem not mine so I just blank the issues. not the best solution but works for me.

Sephiroth_dude

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I feel the same way as you, I also hope this anger and resentment I feel will pass, I just try not to think of the past.

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Bambi985

Stonepilot, I don't have enough experience or knowledge about alcohol addiction to talk specifically about AA and the disease model they subscribe to, or how right or wrong or harmful that is. All I really know is what I've seen with my own eyes, that which is known the world over as alcoholism, if we want to go with "alcohol addiction" because it's less offensive then Im all for it. You could spend your life trail blazing on that particular campaign though. Glad to hear you've found your own way of recovering and I've no doubt that you've fought hard for it.

AA seems to work for many people. My uncle has been sober for 10 years now and goes to meetings twice a week. He recently came through stage 4 cancer and it's what kept him sober throughout. I've only really known him since he started AA, before that he floated in and out of our lives leaving chaos and destruction in his wake.

My former OH gave it a few weeks and then said it wasn't for him, the same words as you actually - too cultish, too intense. That was probably just as much the addiction talking at that point as anything else, as other avenues were shot down fairly quickly too. He just wasn't ready to call it a day. He might never be.

Lost one of my best friends to it effectively.......... very sad as he himself declared a few years before his passing that being off the drink was the best thing that ever happened him.

Schwanz

I've had problems with drink over the years where I went mad on it etc. Never had a problem where my body required it daily like say a junkie needing some gear though thankfully.

Dad had it pretty bad, so much so my Mam use to collect his wages every week because the guy would have just drank it.

One of the worst drugs out there is alcohol and has destroyed so many people & effected so many families - yet it is probably the easiest to get & of course is legal.

weldoninhio

Blazer wrote: »

Absolutely clueless.
Dad being on the laptop or Xbox is not even close to having an alcoholic parent.

But not everyone that drinks is an alcoholic.

cocker5

Effected, both parents cronic... (Mam passed away 5 years ago now )

Its horrendous.. even hitting nearly 40..it effects me ... as a person, my thinking and my outlook on things...

I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy .... or cancer for that matter both are cruel .. cruel diseases and have a HUGE long lasting impact on loved ones around the person

the_syco

JupiterKid wrote: »

I’d really like to know the true extent of the number of deaths attributable to alcohol in this booze soaked country.

To save the family the details, many suicides were referred to as "accident".

ThinkProgress wrote: »

I don't ever feel sorry for an alcoholic... they choose the bottle. It doesn't choose them!

If they grew up seeing drinking was normal, they may not have known any other life.

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Addicts tend to think everyone else is lucky and they are unlucky. This is their own warped sense of reality. And it's a complete cop out.

No. Addicts tend to think how to get their next fix.

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Addiction is something that happens to other people. Weaker, lesser, stupider people. I'm proud to be one that will never succumb unlike all those other useless people.


The graveyards are full of people that thought addiction was something that would never trouble them.

I think this is tongue in cheek; that the mindset of many is that it'll only happen to others, never to them.

Mate pushing 40 must have the liver of a 70 year old if he's lucky.
I'm 50/50 whether I'm an alcoholic or not. I'm certainly a problem drinker, but only in terms of health effects I'd say. Funny enough my mates agree yet any time I go a while without a drink if I have a few they'll give out that I won't do it with them. It would be lovely to have properly supportive people around me, and not just w.r.t. drinking.
Funny enough the heavy-drinking mate is probably the most supportive. He doesn't do a whole lot and when I'm giving the drink a miss he gets it and doesn't hassle me to drink with him. On very rare occasions he'll even bring his dog out and meet me for lunch. :P

MilesMorales1

My father was a violent angry abusive alcoholic who took it out on his kids. Don't have any memories of him not drinking in fact.