Buildy-uppy thread: Ire vs Scot

turnikett1

PTH2009 wrote: »

Rememeber Scotland beat us in the last game to be played in Croke Park in 2010 costing us the triple crown, we were expected to win that game fairly handy

Ugh, that deflated feeling on that day equals very few bad rugby days I've ever felt. Honestly, it was up there with 2007 6N and 2015 RWC. It's one thing losing at home, but losing at home to that Scottish team... truly woeful.

Like many people here I can't make up my mind whether or not I'm confident or nervous. My only concern is if Ringer is a bit rusty. However, he is better at defending the wide channels than Farrell (or Earls ), if he seamlessly slots back in I would feel very confident. If he shows rust and can't keep up with Scotland's pace then I will worry.

I know Scotland haven't won away since 2010 but I don't buy into these stats. They are always meant to be broken. Remember how much everyone was saying "Wales have beaten Scotland in their last 10 meetings" last year or even this year "Scotland have failed to score a try against in England at home since 2004 (?)" etc, they will be broken and there is really no reason why their inevitable big away 6N win couldn't come this weekend. I think it's wrong to look to their Wales game, they look more settled and are buoyed by a magnificent win. They are lethal out wide and we are muck out wide. I think the Scots will be coming with a bit of pzazz and rightfully so - I don't see a repeat of Wales happening. They beat Aus away last year and I know the 6N is a different kettle of fish but that belief to win away does exist in the team.

PTH2009

turnikett1 wrote: »

Ugh, that deflated feeling on that day equals very few bad rugby days I've ever felt. Honestly, it was up there with 2007 6N and 2015 RWC. It's one thing losing at home, but losing at home to that Scottish team... truly woeful.

Like many people here I can't make up my mind whether or not I'm confident or nervous. My only concern is if Ringer is a bit rusty. However, he is better at defending the wide channels than Farrell (or Earls ), if he seamlessly slots back in I would feel very confident. If he shows rust and can't keep up with Scotland's pace then I will worry.

I know Scotland haven't won away since 2010 but I don't buy into these stats. They are always meant to be broken. Remember how much everyone was saying "Wales have beaten Scotland in their last 10 meetings" last year or even this year "Scotland have failed to score a try against in England at home since 2004 (?)" etc, they will be broken and there is really no reason why their inevitable big away 6N win couldn't come this weekend. I think it's wrong to look to their Wales game, they look more settled and are buoyed by a magnificent win. They are lethal out wide and we are muck out wide. I think the Scots will be coming with a bit of pzazz and rightfully so - I don't see a repeat of Wales happening. They beat Aus away last year and I know the 6N is a different kettle of fish but that belief to win away does exist in the team.

A victory in that 2010 game would of been a great send off for our brief time in Croke Park but wasant meant to be. Played 14 games there from Feb 2007-March 2010 and only lost 4 games, drew 1 and won 9 (including great wins over England, France and world champs at the time South Africa)

Buer

PTH2009 wrote: »

A victory in that 2010 game would of been a great send off for our brief time in Croke Park but wasant meant to be. Played 14 games there from Feb 2007-March 2010 and only lost 4 games, drew 1 and won 9 (including great wins over England, France and world champs at the time South Africa)

I'd have thought that 9 wins from 14 is a very poor home record when I see it written out like that.

aloooof

Buer wrote: »

I'd have thought that 9 wins from 14 is a very poor home record when I see it written out like that.

Doesn't look especially impressive, and certainly not favourable compared to Schmidt's record at home. Off the top of my head, the only home games I can think of that we've lost under Schmidt are New Zealand (twice) and Australia in his first game in charge? Two of those were in his first international window as manager, I think. And he's never lost a 6 Nations game at home.

aloooof

aloooof wrote: »

Doesn't look especially impressive, and certainly not favourable compared to Schmidt's record at home. Off the top of my head, the only home games I can think of that we've lost under Schmidt are New Zealand (twice) and Australia in his first game in charge? Two of those were in his first international window as manager, I think. And he's never lost a 6 Nations game at home.

Yes that's it, we also drew against Wales the other year. He has lost no 6N games in Dublin as you say which is a fine record in 5 seasons. I've love to find the figures again but his win % for Leinster and Ireland combined is incredible, think it approaches 80%.

We started to slip immediately after the 2009 win under Kidney imo. There were some highs like beating Aus and England in 2011 but they were papering over the cracks.

jr86

PTH2009 wrote: »

A victory in that 2010 game would of been a great send off for our brief time in Croke Park but wasant meant to be. Played 14 games there from Feb 2007-March 2010 and only lost 4 games, drew 1 and won 9 (including great wins over England, France and world champs at the time South Africa)

Despite the sentiment around that 2007 massacre, England were absolutely muck in that period (by their general standards) bar bizarrely reaching a RWC final. The 2009 match was one of the worst I've ever seen live. Guys like a completely passed-it Tindall, passed-it Cueto, Lipman, Lund, Vainokolo were part of the set up in that era

9 from 14 really doesn't look great looking back. No doubt we're a far more formidable force at home now

Dubinusa

Any kind of win would suit me fine.

swiwi_

Deleted User wrote: »

For some reason I keep reading the thread title as Ireland vs Uppity-Scotland

A bit like the Irish lad posting from the States. At first I was like Dubi Nusa, that’s unusual.

pickarooney

swiwi_ wrote: »

A bit like the Irish lad posting from the States. At first I was like Dubi Nusa, that’s unusual.

I only just realised it wasn't Dublin, USA.

Burkie1203

Rumour. Fairly predictable one.

Healy, Best, Furlong, Henderson, Ryan, PoM, Leavy, Stander, Murray, Sexton, Stockdale, Aki, Ringrose, Earls, Kearney

McGrath, Cronin, Porter, Toner, Conan, Marmion, Carbery, McFadden

Dubinusa

53 yr old north strand boyo gentlemen. just ould jackeen in Massachusetts. Love my rugby though. It is becoming quite popular over here. The USA will be a strong side fairly soon.

PTH2009

George Mushy Saga wrote: »

He has lost no 6N games in Dublin as you say which is a fine record in 5 seasons. I'.

Hope you didn't jinx things now and Scotland end up giving Joe his first 6N home loss this weekend

Zzippy

PTH2009 wrote: »

Hope you didn't jinx things now and Scotland end up giving Joe his first 6N home loss this weekend

Any of ye, like me, not morning people? Any of ye hate those bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, perma-cheery people who breeze into the office on a sh1te day going on about how lovely the rain is, and how lucky we are to live in such a great place?

Yeah, well, I don't think PTH is one of those people... welcome, friend! If ever we needed a hero to step in to a groupthink giddy "we're going to win a grand slam" party, and say "Nay! Beware the Scot!" and remind us all that we're not New Zealand, it's PTH. Legend.

typhoony

typhoony wrote: »

while we seem to be losing players Scotland have several players returning from injury, I remember the game in Croke Park where we supposed to win easily and they turned us over. we could do with Seymour not recovering from injury.

Team Announced and Kinghorn replaces the injured Seymour, a very different type of player and definitely a lot easier for us to defend against.

Dave_The_Sheep

Former Former

Maybe it's my green-tinted specs and my comparatively low knowledge of Scottish rugby, but I just don't think that Scottish team should be too much for us to handle.

If we keep it relatively tight, no aimless kicks back to them in space, try not to get caught narrow in defence (again), I think we can win this.

Ireland to win without a bonus point I'd say.

stephen_n

Thought they had Richie Gray and Fagerson back for this one? We should both on paper and on the pitch be able to beat that team. Baring a team malfunction, I’d say we will win this comfortably. Not expecting a low scoring game though.

Clegg

I'm very wary of Scotland. They looked dangerous in the opening 20 against Wales and it was their own mistakes in attack which Wales capitalised on to get the early lead. We'll have to be so focused in on the ruck and breakdown to deprive them of as much ball as possible.

stephen_n

stephen_n wrote: »

Thought they had Richie Gray and Fagerson back for this one? We should both on paper and on the pitch be able to beat that team. Baring a team malfunction, I’d say we will win this comfortably. Not expecting a low scoring game though.

They just beat England for the first time in a decade, those two guys you mention have no match fitness, so they shouldn't really have been brought in imo.

It could open up if Scotland are aiming for the bonus point

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

It could open up if Scotland are aiming for the bonus point

Takes two to open a game up. We're definitely not going to be playing for a bonus, we'll be playing to win.

aloooof

An open game is probably not what Ireland want tho, no?

Buer

George Mushy Saga wrote: »

They just beat England for the first time in a decade, those two guys you mention have no match fitness, so they shouldn't really have been brought in imo.

I thought they'd play Grey or he'd feautre in some capacity. He started last weekend and played 80 minutes and had played 80 minutes three times after Christmas before picking up his current knock.

Hardie is someone that could certainly have done something for them from the bench but I suspect his indiscretion will see him held out of the 23 for this entire tournament regardless of availability. His match fitness should be pretty good given he wasn't injured and played a few matches in February since his return.

Buer

aloooof wrote: »

An open game is probably not what Ireland want tho, no?

I wouldn't have thought so. Putting the ball into space and high risk rugby is giving a sucker an even break, as Brent Pope says. That's how Scotland like the game to be. Open, quick tempo and lots of ball in hand.

Own possession and grind down the Scottish pack is the way to go for me. Ugly and effective. But we need to be rabid at the breakdown to ensure we protect our ball. Scotland can lose shape very easily if we get to go through multiple phases up front as is our style.

The Scottish pack don't have the legs that the Welsh pack did. There's no reason we can't strangle them and then pick them off. Importantly, we have a proper bench available for our forwards that can do real damage. The Scottish bench is very run of the mill.

prawnsambo

Buer wrote: »

I wouldn't have thought so. Putting the ball into space and high risk rugby is giving a sucker an even break, as Brent Pope says. That's how Scotland like the game to be. Open, quick tempo and lots of ball in hand.

Own possession and grind down the Scottish pack is the way to go for me. Ugly and effective. But we need to be rabid at the breakdown to ensure we protect our ball. Scotland can lose shape very easily if we get to go through multiple phases up front as is our style.

The Scottish pack don't have the legs that the Welsh pack did. There's no reason we can't strangle them and then pick them off. Importantly, we have a proper bench available for our forwards that can do real damage. The Scottish bench is very run of the mill.

Yeah, that's the thing that did for England. They didn't compete at the breakdown and gave the Scottish half-backs an armchair ride which they duly took full advantage of. Wee Greig and Finn Russell (no more than anyone) don't like getting dirty ball on the back foot.

ionadnapokot

PTH2009 wrote: »

Hope you didn't jinx things now and Scotland end up giving Joe his first 6N home loss this weekend

i can see Ireland dominating possession again and scoring enough tries that there is a good chance of a BP win. Shaky defense and all.

Scenario 1:
Ireland 20 Scotland 13. 68 mins gone. Penalty to Ireland ().
3 tries v 2 tries. Sexton 1 from 4
Do you A) Kick to the corner Or Take the penalty kick at goal

Scenario 2:
Ireland 20 Scotland 13. 75 mins gone. Penalty to Ireland (On 15m line RHS, half way between 10m & 22).
3 tries v 2 tries. Murray on kicking.
Do you A) Kick to the corner Or Take the penalty kick at goal

Based on our leaky defence to date I chose
Would be interested to know how many would go for A) with possibility of winning the Championship with 4T BP win.

aloooof

Wayne Barnes can be particular at the breakdown which may help give Scotland the quick ball they'll be looking for.

I dunno, I've been back and forth on this one, but I'm coming round to feeling confident of a relatively comfortable win, but I'm not expecting it to be pretty. I think our forwards will put in a shift, lots of phases of one-out runners trying to commit defenders. I can see that paying off in the 2nd half.

ionadnapokot

ionadnapokot wrote: »

i can see Ireland dominating possession again and scoring enough tries that there is a good chance of a BP win. Shaky defense and all.

Scenario 1:
Ireland 20 Scotland 13. 68 mins gone. Penalty to Ireland ().
3 tries v 2 tries. Sexton 1 from 4
Do you A) Kick to the corner Or Take the penalty kick at goal

Scenario 2:
Ireland 20 Scotland 13. 75 mins gone. Penalty to Ireland (On 15m line RHS, half way between 10m & 22).
3 tries v 2 tries. Murray on kicking.
Do you A) Kick to the corner Or Take the penalty kick at goal

Based on our leaky defence to date I chose
Would be interested to know how many would go for A) with possibility of winning the Championship with 4T BP win.

Take the kick in both scenarios. Win the game first. Still time for that last try. Sexton's kicking form doesn't come into account for me.

aloooof

aloooof wrote: »

Wayne Barnes can be particular at the breakdown which may help give Scotland the quick ball they'll be looking for.

I dunno, I've been back and forth on this one, but I'm coming round to feeling confident of a relatively comfortable win, but I'm not expecting it to be pretty. I think our forwards will put in a shift, lots of phases of one-out runners trying to commit defenders. I can see that paying off in the 2nd half.

Everyone is looking for quick ball, everyone. I think Nige let them away with murder against England so I think Barnes suits us more than them.

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Would be interested to know how many would go for A) with possibility of winning the Championship with 4T BP win.

Even with a BP win we won't just automatically win the championship, it would depend on the result of the France/England game which of course is after us.

stephen_n

George Mushy Saga wrote: »

They just beat England for the first time in a decade, those two guys you mention have no match fitness, so they shouldn't really have been brought in imo.

That would be fine in most years, but Fagerson in particular is well above the standard of Berghan. Richie Gray is the sort of player you’d expect to be brought straight back in, same way POC would have for us.

irishbucsfan

stephen_n wrote: »

Richie Gray is the sort of player you’d expect to be brought straight back in, same way POC would have for us.

You are vastly, vastly overrating Richie Gray I reckon.

I think I'd have Swinson starting over both him and Gilchrist myself.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Take the kick in both scenarios. Win the game first. Still time for that last try. Sexton's kicking form doesn't come into account for me.

What if all our tries were from line out mauls?

prawnsambo

Deleted User wrote: »

What if all our tries were from line out mauls?

Iirc last time around, Scotland put our lineout under serious pressure and scored a cheeky try from one. They also defended lineouts on their own line. Successfully.

stephen_n

irishbucsfan wrote: »

You are vastly, vastly overrating Richie Gray I reckon.

I think I'd have Swinson starting over both him and Gilchrist myself.

Maybe he has been made look better by those around him over the years, but he has always been instrumental in any good performances by the Scottish team.

irishbucsfan

stephen_n wrote: »

Maybe he has been made look better by those around him over the years, but he has always been instrumental in any good performances by the Scottish team.

I strongly disagree, he's been a passenger for Scotland many times. He did improve after heading to France, he's far less soft than he used to be. He used to be an absolute liability for conceding penalties with useless clearouts. He got his starting place back beside his Brother on the back of that improvement, but I still wouldn't have him near the Irish squad.

stephen_n

stephen_n wrote: »

Maybe he has been made look better by those around him over the years, but he has always been instrumental in any good performances by the Scottish team.

They've done alright without him recently, e.g. their recent Aus hammering, beating Aus down in Aus, the win against England.

He isn't in the same solar system as POC as a second row though.

sydthebeat

stephen_n wrote: »

That would be fine in most years, but Fagerson in particular is well above the standard of Berghan. Richie Gray is the sort of player you’d expect to be brought straight back in, same way POC would have for us.

richie gray.... the ultimate ruck inspector

stephen_n

Not a lot of love for Richie on here :pac:

stephen_n

stephen_n wrote: »

Not a lot of love for Richie on here :pac:

Nor from the Scottish coaches.

Jump_In_Jack

ionadnapokot wrote: »

i can see Ireland dominating possession again and scoring enough tries that there is a good chance of a BP win. Shaky defense and all.

Scenario 1:
Ireland 20 Scotland 13. 68 mins gone. Penalty to Ireland ().
3 tries v 2 tries. Sexton 1 from 4
Do you A) Kick to the corner Or Take the penalty kick at goal

Scenario 2:
Ireland 20 Scotland 13. 75 mins gone. Penalty to Ireland (On 15m line RHS, half way between 10m & 22).
3 tries v 2 tries. Murray on kicking.
Do you A) Kick to the corner Or Take the penalty kick at goal

Based on our leaky defence to date I chose
Would be interested to know how many would go for A) with possibility of winning the Championship with 4T BP win.

If Ireland are 20, isn't that 2 from 4, as in 3 tries = 3 conversion kicks, plus 1 penalty.
To get 3 tries puts 15 points on the board, so the other 5 must be from a conversion and a penalty.

bilston

Former Former wrote: »

Maybe it's my green-tinted specs and my comparatively low knowledge of Scottish rugby, but I just don't think that Scottish team should be too much for us to handle.

If we keep it relatively tight, no aimless kicks back to them in space, try not to get caught narrow in defence (again), I think we can win this.

Ireland to win without a bonus point I'd say.

I agree, for me we are a good bit stronger in the tight 5, the back row is close, we are better at half back (although Russell has the ability to hurt us), the centres are even enough, the back three is fairly even too. Bit we are better where it counts and elsewhere it's even at best for the Scots.

Henry Ford III

If Rob Kearney gets picked I'll seriously consider buying a kilt.

Henry Ford III

Henry Ford III wrote: »

If Rob Kearney gets picked I'll seriously consider buying a kilt.

If one player dictates your support, just buy the kilt now

ionadnapokot

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

If Ireland are 20, isn't that 2 from 4, as in 3 tries = 3 conversion kicks, plus 1 penalty.
To get 3 tries puts 15 points on the board, so the other 5 must be from a conversion and a penalty.

Murray took the pen when Sexton was down!

.ak

Henry Ford III wrote: »

If Rob Kearney gets picked I'll seriously consider buying a kilt.

Thats fairly fickle... As in it’s a pity you can’t support your national team because a coach thinks a player is better than you think they are...

Bridge93

Henry Ford III wrote: »

If Rob Kearney gets picked I'll seriously consider buying a kilt.

https://kiltsociety.com/

I think the Mackenzie tartan pattern is particularly dashing. But that's just my opinion, you pick whatever style you like. Unfortunately its unlikely they'll be able to deliver by Saturday

arsebiscuits1

awec wrote: »

The Kearney discussion is beyond boring now. This place has been a nightmare recently, the Kearney talk stops now. That includes the little jokes and the sarcasm. Any more provincial bollocks, no matter how subtle, will be carded.

:pac:

Apologies if this is considered "backseat modding" I just found it quite apt. Feel free to delete/ remove as appropriate

The Black Stags

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

awec wrote: »

The Kearney discussion is beyond boring now. This place has been a nightmare recently, the Kearney talk stops now. That includes the little jokes and the sarcasm. Any more provincial bollocks, no matter how subtle, will be carded.

:pac:

Apologies if this is considered "backseat modding" I just found it quite apt. Feel free to delete/ remove as appropriate

Agreed since the post seems designed to get a rise out of people.

Rumour mill saying sexton and Earls are out

Zzippy

Deleted User wrote: »

Rumour mill saying sexton and Earls are out