Route 139 Naas to Blanchardstown Launches 12th Mar

thomasj

There was a 139 heading outbound at blanchardstown shopping centre earlier.

There were only 5 or 6 passengers but the bus was there for 4 or 5 minutes as it took ages for the driver to get tickets issued for leap cards.

Stephen15

thomasj wrote: »

There was a 139 heading outbound at blanchardstown shopping centre earlier.

There were only 5 or 6 passengers but the bus was there for 4 or 5 minutes as it took ages for the driver to get tickets issued for leap cards.

Wait so the driver has to issue actual paper tickets for Leap passengers. Sort ofdemoralises the point of Leap as a paperless system.

n97 mini

Stephen15 wrote: »

Wait so the driver has to issue actual paper tickets for Leap passengers. Sort ofdemoralises the point of Leap as a paperless system.

No he doesn't. He only issues tickets for cash customers. And unlike Dublin Bus they take notes, which imho is a bad thing. Yesterday a woman paid for a 5.50 ticket with a 20 note.

The timetable is apparently about to be revised as it has far too much padding at the moment. 30 minutes from Leixlip to Maynooth is insane.

Stephen15

n97 mini wrote: »

No he doesn't. He only issues tickets for cash customers. And unlike Dublin Bus they take notes, which imho is a bad thing. Yesterday a woman paid for a 5.50 ticket with a 20 note.

The timetable is apparently about to be revised as it has far too much padding at the moment. 30 minutes from Leixlip to Maynooth is insane.

By being a more long distance operator having more expensive fares it is a good idea to take notes but where that won't delay the bus extra. I have travelled on similar longer distance buses on the continent which do take notes and they employ a conductor as well as a driver perhaps this would be good idea for this type of setup.

thomasj

Stephen15 wrote:

Wait so the driver has to issue actual paper tickets for Leap passengers. Sort ofdemoralises the point of Leap as a paperless system.

Sorry my bad. It took ages for the driver to get the system to take leap cards.

n97 mini

Stephen15 wrote: »

By being a more long distance operator having more expensive fares it is a good idea to take notes but where that won't delay the bus extra.

Not sure I'd agree. Naas (via Sallins), Maynooth, Leixlip, Blanchardstown are all within the Irish Rail short hop zone.

As some fares are over €5, maybe accept €5 notes, but I think it should still be exact fare only.

AlekSmart

n97 mini wrote: »

Not sure I'd agree. Naas (via Sallins), Maynooth, Leixlip, Blanchardstown are all within the Irish Rail short hop zone.

As some fares are over €5, maybe accept €5 notes, but I think it should still be exact fare only.

I recall some talk last year about the introduction of a €5 Coin,which might stifle the rush to retain paper.

With the NTA firmly committed to eliminating Public Bus Service cash transactions in the GDA within two-years,anything to keep cash at vaulting pole length is well worth it !!....particularly on a :eek: BRAND-NEW 2018 SERVICE :eek:

n97 mini

AlekSmart wrote: »

I recall some talk last year about the introduction of a €5 Coin,which might stifle the rush to retain paper.

With the NTA firmly committed to eliminating Public Bus Service cash transactions in the GDA within two-years,anything to keep cash at vaulting pole length is well worth it !!....particularly on a :eek: BRAND-NEW 2018 SERVICE :eek:

On a side note I waited for the feeder bus from Naas to Sallins train station twice on Saturday gone. Neither showed up. Ended up getting a Bus reann bus to Dublin at 18.56 instead.

GM228

From the NTA today:-

wrote:

5. Information on Route 139 service
Leaflets were distributed by the NTA to households in the catchment area of Route 139 in advance of commencement of services in March. The Transport for Ireland website contains timetable information in relation to the new service. The operator (JJ Kavanagh) has also provided timetable information on its website for Route 139 under “Town and City services”

Funny that the timetables only made it onto their site after I e-mailed the NTA about it!

tnegun

I wonder if the leaflets will arrive now too for what its worth I live in Maynooth and didn't receive one(I do have a no junk mail sign though).

devnull

GM228 wrote: »

From the NTA today:-

Funny that the timetables only made it onto their site after I e-mailed the NTA about it!

There's also a link to it on the menu on the TFI site now.

n97 mini

tnegun wrote: »

I wonder if the leaflets will arrive now too for what its worth I live in Maynooth and didn't receive one(I do have a no junk mail sign though).

Same here in Leixlip. A lot of people first heard about it when the local paper said it was being withdrawn due to the weight limit on Cope Bridge.

tnegun

Was all word of mouth or a few of the community facebook pages that spread it around here.

GM228

The Route 139 contract award notice was recently published in the Official Journal of the EU (OJ).

http://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:234076-2018:TEXT:EN:HTML&src=0

Nearly €750,000 (ex vat) for JJ to run the route.

Lord Glentoran

n97 mini wrote: »

On a side note I waited for the feeder bus from Naas to Sallins train station twice on Saturday gone. Neither showed up. Ended up getting a Bus reann bus to Dublin at 18.56 instead.

Is the timetable a bit fictional then?

thomasj

I see that the buses that operate the 139 route are in the tfi livery now .

Branding includes the route map.

jmkennedyie

I find 139 very close to timetable. Drivers regularly pause at stops to stay on schedule

devnull

thomasj wrote: »

I see that the buses that operate the 139 route are in the tfi livery now .

Branding includes the route map.

Any photos?

thomasj

Sorry was on a bus at the time so didn't have the best angle.

But should be down that way layer so will take one later.

devnull

Don't worry if you don't have chance - I was just curious if someone posted one elsewhere as to what it looked like.

Did anyone notice that JJ Kavanagh have the old timetable on their website still and not the revised one?

JJK haven't exactly covered themselves in glory have they in the way they've handled their first tendered route?

GM228

devnull wrote: »

Any photos?

The livery on them is based on the TFI green/blue/white livery as seen on the route 817.

It does make you wonder why there is a TFI livery aswell as the new NTA blue livery.

AlekSmart

GM228 wrote: »

The livery on them is based on the TFI green/blue/white livery as seen on the route 817.

It does make you wonder why there is a TFI livery aswell as the new NTA blue livery.

Behind every new livery is a Manager with a box to be ticked

devnull

Here's a photo
https://midlanddeltic.smugmug.com/Trip-Sets-Ireland-Bus/2018/Portlaoise-Newbridge-Naas-Bus-26-06-2018/i-rvpd8WZ

GM228

devnull wrote: »

Here's a photo
https://midlanddeltic.smugmug.com/Trip-Sets-Ireland-Bus/2018/Portlaoise-Newbridge-Naas-Bus-26-06-2018/i-rvpd8WZ

The TFI livery looks smarter on the 139 buses than it does on the original 817s.

I'm still unsure why this livery was chosen when the blue seems to be the preferred livery by the NTA, perhaps JJ went all DB with the NTA and that was the compromise.

Vic_08

Buses in the Dublin region that are not part of the standard DB fare structure should be in a completely different livery as is the current case with BE and various independents being obviously identifiable from afar.

Sadly with the NTA tenders it looks like the GA operations will use an identical livery on both ex-DB and ex-BE services with DB to also end up using the same livery in the future.

devnull

Vic_08 wrote: »

Sadly with the NTA tenders it looks like the GA operations will use an identical livery on both ex-DB and ex-BE services with DB to also end up using the same livery in the future.

And so they should because integration of services is far more important than the commercial interests of a company that has spent years telling us it has no commercial interests.

However I do feel that there does need to be some differentiation between those services that are part of the Dublin City Bus network and those which are not part of it.

GM228

Vic_08 wrote: »

Sadly with the NTA tenders it looks like the GA operations will use an identical livery on both ex-DB and ex-BE services with DB to also end up using the same livery in the future.

BE are also adopting the livery, starting with the Waterford services.

Post 2019 it is expected to see more BE and the DB fleets gain the colours.

Vic_08

devnull wrote: »

And so they should because integration of services is far more important than the commercial interests of a company that has spent years telling us it has no commercial interests.

Painting buses the same colour doesn't "integrate" them.

Having services with completely separate fare structures appearing the same is just a recipe for confusion.

devnull

GM228 wrote: »

BE are also adopting the livery, starting with the Waterford services.

Post 2019 it is expected to see more BE and the DB fleets gain the colours.

It does raise an interesting question though.

If you're putting the 139 which is not part of the Dublin City Bus network in the same livery as Dublin City Bus services how does a prospective passenger know if their ticket is valid on such service if they look identical?

Of course you don't have that problem in Waterford since the only PSO services there are Bus Eireann, but in Dublin you will have both Dublin city bus services and the ones from outside Dublin, operating in the same livery but two different ticket systems.

GM228

Vic_08 wrote: »

Buses in the Dublin region that are not part of the standard DB fare structure should be in a completely different livery as is the current case with BE and various independents being obviously identifiable from afar.

Why though, what benefit does a different colour provide? Remember there will not be a standard DB fare structure, rather a standard NTA fare structure which will apply to both operators.

One of the reasons why DB got rid of the various colour schemes (CitySwift, CityImp etc) was because they said a mixture of brands was confusing to Dubliners. They acknowledged that a standardised colour scheme for Dublin was appropriate for Dubliners, how things change.

GM228

devnull wrote: »

It does raise an interesting question though.

If you're putting the 139 which is not part of the Dublin City Bus network in the same livery as Dublin City Bus services how does a prospective passenger know if their ticket is valid on such service if they look identical?

Of course you don't have that problem in Waterford since the only PSO services there are Bus Eireann, but in Dublin you will have both Dublin city bus services and the ones from outside Dublin, operating in the same livery but two different ticket systems.

You could also raise the same question about the TFI livery and a potential of a 139/817 conflict (perhaps that livery will be applied to GAs Kildare services creating even more potential for confusion), yes the routes may not actually cross paths, but, tourists get around...

Vic_08

GM228 wrote: »

Why though, what benefit does a different colour provide? Remember there will not be a standard DB fare structure, rather a standard NTA fare structure which will apply to both operators.

One of the reasons why DB got rid of the various colour schemes (CitySwift, CityImp etc) was because they said a mixture of brands was confusing to Dubliners. They acknowledged that a standardised colour scheme for Dublin was appropriate for Dubliners, how things change.

I don't think there was anything confusing in what I posted, it is the blurring of the distinction between "Dublin" services (Current DB) that take the standard fare structure including Leap PAYG+cap and the "Regional" (Current BE and TfI additions) that do not use the same fare structure and do not take the same Leap fares or caps.


Far too much is being put on the merits of having a standard livery, Go-Ahead themselves are a big proponent of using different paint jobs on everything, in their home territory of the north-east of England they run a network with over 50 different liveries and that is a model they use across all their operations except London.

devnull

Vic_08 wrote: »

Painting buses the same colour doesn't "integrate" them.

But having Go-Ahead services and Dublin Bus in different liveries, with their own website, with their own maps denying that each other exists is ridiculous though and that suits the companies rather than suiting the passengers.

The system must always take precedence over the parts that make it up. Can you imagine London if every single bus operator, the DLR, the Tube and the Overground all had their own websites? It would be a nightmare, it's already bad enough in the rest of the UK.

Having services with completely separate fare structures appearing the same is just a recipe for confusion.

I completely agree when we're talking about the likes of services like 139 and Dublin City bus services being in the same livery, how is your average Joe going to know that the 139 isn't included when Bus 38 is?

Realistically I think that there should be a different livery for non city bus services. Still it can be uniform, for all these services, but it has to be different to see it's different from the City Bus services.

The simplest way of doing this is to simply swap the blue and white around for non city bus services.

GM228

devnull wrote: »

But having Go-Ahead services and Dublin Bus in different liveries, with their own website, with their own maps denying that each other exists is ridiculous though and that suits the companies rather than suiting the passengers.

The system must always take precedence over the parts that make it up. Can you imagine London if every single bus operator, the DLR, the Tube and the Overground all had their own websites? It would be a nightmare, it's already bad enough in the rest of the UK.



I completely agree when we're talking about the likes of services like 139 and Dublin City bus services being in the same livery, how is your average Joe going to know that the 139 isn't included when Bus 38 is?

Realistically I think that there should be a different livery for non city bus services. Still it can be uniform, for all these services, but it has to be different to see it's different from the City Bus services.

The simplest way of doing this is to simply swap the blue and white around.

The TFI livery finally appearing on something other than the 817 may be suggestive that it is to be the standard non city bus livery (and so the GA Kildare corridor may get them) and the blue livery is to be the standard city bus livery.

Now imagine the confusion when GA use a city bus on a Kildare service and vice versa like BE do the odd time by putting the VWDs on coach services.

devnull

GM228 wrote: »

The TFI livery finally appearing on something other than the 817 may be suggestive that it is to be the standard non city bus livery (and so the GA Kildare corridor may get them) and the blue livery is to be the standard city bus livery.

Now imagine the confusion when GA use a city bus on a Kildare service and vice versa like BE do the odd time by putting the VWDs on coach services.

Thing is on a single decker it doesn't look that distinctive, on a double decker maybe it would look better, I don't know but I'm not convinced that it's different enough to the City Bus livery.

I still think an inverted version of the blue livery would be a better option and there could also be a small label somewhere saying something like "Regional" to distinguish it as well.

devnull

Vic_08 wrote: »

Go-Ahead themselves are a big proponent of using different paint jobs on everything, in their home territory of the north-east of England they run a network with over 50 different liveries and that is a model they use across all their operations except London.

But that's really comparing apples with oranges at the end of the day.

What they do in their commercial operations in England really is of little relevance here because they are not running commercial services here, they are running public service obligation routes which form part of a public service obligation network.

The only place that Go-Ahead do the same (London) they also run in a uniform livery and as part of an overall system because honestly, it's better for the public that way rather than having a totally confusing and fragmented system.

Stephen15

The picture devnull posted of the 139 livery is not the same as the Dublin City livery which the NTA are implementing on DB and GA services or I am missing something here. I thought the Dublin livery was predominantly blue like this.

Stephen15

The picture devnull posted of the 139 livery is not the same as the Dublin City livery which the NTA are implementing on DB and GA services or I am missing something here. I thought the Dublin livery was predominantly blue with two stripes which are green and white.

devnull

Stephen15 wrote: »

The picture devnull posted of the 139 livery is not the same as the Dublin City livery which the NTA are implementing on DB and GA services or I am missing something here. I thought the Dublin livery was predominantly blue like this.

It's not the same but it's also not different enough. They should just invert the colours in my view and put a little regional label on it.

LorelaiG

Does anyone know if this bus stops anywhere near clane hospital

n97 mini

LorelaiG wrote: »

Does anyone know if this bus stops anywhere near clane hospital

It does stop on Main St but impossible to say where as there are no bus stop signs anywhere.

AlekSmart

n97 mini wrote: »

It does stop on Main St but impossible to say where as there are no bus stop signs anywhere.

I wonder if the NTA have a view on this ?

n97 mini

AlekSmart wrote: »

I wonder if the NTA have a view on this ?

Probably not. I asked why the 139 isn't on the real-time system. Reply was it's for DB and IE only, but since then Go Ahead services have been added.

tnegun

Some posts on local FB groups in Maynooth recently stating that stops will be installed, no idea if it's limited to Maynooth or all along the route though.

Stephen15

The whole implementation of this route has been completely bizarre right from the get go a year on and still no stops installed is baffling. Also if RTPI screens are only meant for DB, GAI and BE then why are there ones in the airport for the Aircoach albeit not shared with other state or PSO operators and this is a commercial service. All PSO regardless of operator should be on RTPI.

Polar101

The stops aren't a big problem where you have Dublin Bus stops, it stops at those. Outside that area the stops are less obvious, at least to me.
Also there is an issue in Leixlip where there is no stop between the church and Captain's hill (when going towards Blanch) - but it doesn't really look like a stop on the main street is possible.

RTPI would be a huge improvement.

Stephen15

Polar101 wrote: »

The stops aren't a big problem where you have Dublin Bus stops, it stops at those. Outside that area the stops are less obvious, at least to me.
Also there is an issue in Leixlip where there is no stop between the church and Captain's hill (when going towards Blanch) - but it doesn't really look like a stop on the main street is possible.

RTPI would be a huge improvement.

I'd agree it wouldn't be such an issue where there is already a DB/BE bus stop but I'd there wouldn't be anything to indicate that the 139 stops at these stops as the timetables wouldn't be there alongside the DB/BE timetables and the route wouldn't be listed on the stop flag.

Seth Brundle

Polar101 wrote: »

Also there is an issue in Leixlip where there is no stop between the church and Captain's hill (when going towards Blanch) - but it doesn't really look like a stop on the main street is possible.

There are seven parking spaces (including two disabled spots) opposite Da Vincis. Plenty of room for a bus stop if the will was there

n97 mini

Polar101 wrote: »

The stops aren't a big problem where you have Dublin Bus stops, it stops at those. Outside that area the stops are less obvious, at least to me.

I got it to Naas once. The stop at Rathcoffey was beside a tree. The stop in Clane was at a lamp post (I don't remember which one).

Also, there is an issue even in Leixlip. The timetable says the stop is on Captain's Hill. Coming from Blanch there are two DB stops on Captain's Hill, outside Newtown and outside Riverdale.

The whole thing smacks of laziness. Do the bare minimum.