Advice needed

Steve2016

Hi guys.....have a strange work issue which I would appreciate some advice on. I'll purposely keep it vague so as to keep it anonymous.

The background is I've been on internal assignment which comes with an allowance package. The monthly allowance which was agreed was higher than normal because of my personal circumstances but was basically the standard monthly amount plus an additional separate amount also paid monthly. Now here's the problem, HR have come back to me to say that they have been over paying me for a certain amount of time (everyone merged across to the same conditions after a while so they say they over paid me the period before that) because my assignment terms and conditions say the extra per month I agreed to is down as an annual amount. Its basically a typo which I didn't spot myself as it was all trashed out over email with HR and I naively didn't check properly. The tone of the email informing me didn't give me confidence that they acknowledge an error and will update the assignment terms and conditions. They seem to want the money back which is quite a lot over that period and completely unfair.

I have correspondence from HR before the (wrong) assignment T&Cs were signed which clearly outlines the package which confirms what was agreed but the problem is the assignment terms and conditions (i.e. the contract for assignment) is wrong and management involved in the assignment will know this.
I've been advised my a senior manager to lie low and see if it blows over but where do I stand? Surely they can't just take back (a lot) of money just because of a type. The frustrating thing is, I would not have accepted this assignment on the conditions they want to retrospectively put me on for the initial period so I feel like I have been duped. I also feel I cannot fight this too vigorously without management support as it may be damaging to my career going forward by taking on HR. Its a lose lose unless it dies on its own, I fear.

Any advice at all??

maccabe

Hiya. I am a little confused with your post but will try to help. In a broader sense, if you have signed a contract / T&C's with your employer, this will stand. Changes to those T&C's would need to be agreed and signed off by both parties to be implemented legitimately. If you can clarify, are the signed T&C's "correct" (as per the company view), and a payroll error has been made outside of these? If so, the company has a right to reclaim monies overpaid due to salary errors and generally would have made a provision in your contract of employment for this. If the T&C's are wrong i.e. in your favour, then you can stick with these and the company will have little recourse to suddenly alter this without your consent.

I presume it's the first instance. If so, have a good read of your contract and handbook. You could speak with HR and tell them you are very unhappy about the situation and the payroll errors. Tell them this severely impacts your perception of the role you have taken on and the repayment of funds will have an impact on you personally. It's unlikely the balance will be wiped clean, but they may be able to offer a reasonable solution that sets it right e.g. extended repayment terms / reducing the liability for you to repay.
If they don't offer understanding or empathy, you could file a grievance for the handling of the matter. However I don't think the repayment of funds would be escaped. It will very much depend on the agreement made that was signed off by both parties.
Unfortunately laying low is only going to work for a while because an overpayment would eventually be picked up in financial audits or budget reviews. Wish you all the best with this.

Steve2016

maccabe wrote: »

Hiya. I am a little confused with your post but will try to help. In a broader sense, if you have signed a contract / T&C's with your employer, this will stand. Changes to those T&C's would need to be agreed and signed off by both parties to be implemented legitimately. If you can clarify, are the signed T&C's "correct" (as per the company view), and a payroll error has been made outside of these? If so, the company has a right to reclaim monies overpaid due to salary errors and generally would have made a provision in your contract of employment for this. If the T&C's are wrong i.e. in your favour, then you can stick with these and the company will have little recourse to suddenly alter this without your consent.

I presume it's the first instance. If so, have a good read of your contract and handbook. You could speak with HR and tell them you are very unhappy about the situation and the payroll errors. Tell them this severely impacts your perception of the role you have taken on and the repayment of funds will have an impact on you personally. It's unlikely the balance will be wiped clean, but they may be able to offer a reasonable solution that sets it right e.g. extended repayment terms / reducing the liability for you to repay.
If they don't offer understanding or empathy, you could file a grievance for the handling of the matter. However I don't think the repayment of funds would be escaped. It will very much depend on the agreement made that was signed off by both parties.
Unfortunately laying low is only going to work for a while because an overpayment would eventually be picked up in financial audits or budget reviews. Wish you all the best with this.

Many thanks for taking the time to reply and for the well wishes.

Just to clarify, the terms and conditions are wrong and this is easily backed up by email correspondence with HR. So I have been paid in accordance with what was agreed and can be backed up by email correspondence (which governance would not have been aware of at the time this became an issue). I would have no issue at all with repaying back monies over paid to me in error but the error was in the terms and conditions and not with what was actually paid to me.

I have spoken to the senior manager of the area i'm working in for this internal assignment and without obviously giving any guarantees, he seemed confident that it will be sorted out and will personally intervene. That gives me a little more assurance that a sense of fairness will prevail......but until I receive some correspondence which confirms that they are happy with the clarification and will issue new terms and conditions to close the loop with governance, it will be an unwelcome source of financial anxiety.....

padser

Steve2016 wrote: »

Just to clarify, the terms and conditions are wrong and this is easily backed up by email correspondence with HR. So I have been paid in accordance with what was agreed ...

Not wanting to nit pick, but the "agreement" is what was actually signed so

- the terms and conditions are not "wrong", they just are not what you thought they are
- you havnt been paid in accordance with what what was agreed, you have been paid paid in accordance with what you thought was agreed

If you already have advice from a senior manager within your organisation to lay low and see if it blows over, I'd take that over the advice of a stranger on the internet from whom you have purposely withheld details of the situation for anonymity purposes.

Depending on the strength of the evidence you have for pre dating the agreement, the quality of the drafting in the agreement and the extent to which all parties have acted in good faith thrpughout, you may or may not have a case if things get ugly - but the details will be all important.

Try and resolve this without resorting to acrimonious legal routes

maccabe

Steve2016 wrote: »

Many thanks for taking the time to reply and for the well wishes.

Just to clarify, the terms and conditions are wrong and this is easily backed up by email correspondence with HR. So I have been paid in accordance with what was agreed and can be backed up by email correspondence (which governance would not have been aware of at the time this became an issue). I would have no issue at all with repaying back monies over paid to me in error but the error was in the terms and conditions and not with what was actually paid to me.

I have spoken to the senior manager of the area i'm working in for this internal assignment and without obviously giving any guarantees, he seemed confident that it will be sorted out and will personally intervene. That gives me a little more assurance that a sense of fairness will prevail......but until I receive some correspondence which confirms that they are happy with the clarification and will issue new terms and conditions to close the loop with governance, it will be an unwelcome source of financial anxiety.....

If your manager seemed confident this would be sorted out, I would go with that, he may be happy to make the case to HR to resolve it quickly. You need your T&C's reclarified - what you sign and agree with your employer (and subsequent addendums) are your terms. It seems like a mad situation to have 2 probable sets of terms floating around. The company will do the right thing if they have entered into a contract in error, they will get behind it.

wally1990

I would contact a solicitor personally and I repeat , I would personally . Not saying you should , as I don’t want to give such advice but my POint is view is

I believe that the terms and conditions were provided to you (albeit you failed to fully read them or spot the error) which will go against you but I think you signed theses based on what are now false pretenses

The initial communication provided to you was based on arrangements/allowance X and when all said and done you got a different arrangement/allowance of Y

Whether you would have took the job or not , I think the main point is the arrangements and discussing leading up to the t and c being finalized were based on a certain arrangement which was Not actually provided to you

Sorry if I’m not reading this right but that’s the way I’m reading it

I wouldn’t back down that easy

Steve2016

Thanks for the replies to date....just to be clear, there are plenty of senior people who would be able to confirm that the amount I have been paid all along is the amount which was offered as they were involved in approving it before it went official. If they deny knowledge, they are lying. There is no misunderstanding over what I thought I was offered and what is in the terms and conditions. It is a typo. An error by HR, missed by me. Me misinterpreting the terms and conditions is a different scenario that I would take on the chin begrudgingly. But it is not that, 100% sure.

I think it would be highly unlikely that I would consider going legal on this.....the sum of money involved is big but not compared to the overall "value" of the assignment in terms of money but also long term in terms of my reputational damage. It all hinges on whether the company wants to play the "but you signed the terms and conditions" or whether their sense of fairness will prevail in the face of evidence which confirms that it was an obvious typo. It would not be the type of company that would screw its own workers in such a blatant way in my view and I'm there a while now. I would be very surprised and disappointed if they did take the "tough $hit, you signed it" route. I would probably elevate it higher, for example I have a good relationship with my department manager and would be one speaking terms with the MD. However, I would not make any approaches to the MD directly unless sanctioned by someone who reports to him, i.e. my dept boss.

I really hope this gets sorted out amicably as I do not have the balls to walk away from the place for financial reasons and I know I'll never think the same about the place again which would genuinely sadden me.

Diziet

It looks to me like HR made a mistake and are trying to cover their backs. You are right to involve senior management. If you are paid what you and your management agreed, then HR simply need to correct their document, not take back your money...